QA/Meetings/20120910

Attendees

• adamw (200)
• tflink (194)
• kparal (74)
• jreznik (63)
• nirik (9)
• zodbot (8)
• pjones (5)
• jskladan (4)
• cpuobsessed (3)
• maxamillion (3)
• brunowolff (2)
• Cerlyn (2)
• satellit (2)
• pschindl (2)
• nb (1)
• aspratyush (1)
• jah (1)

Agenda

• Fedora 18 general status check / mini blocker review
• Release criteria revision
• Open floor

Fedora 18 general status check / mini blocker review

• TC6 was out, very close to doing an RC1 but needed a new anaconda build

Blocker/NTH review

• #855289 was left undetermined until further data could be obtained
• #854471 was left undetermined until further data could be obtained
• #854586 was rejected as a blocker as it only affects more advanced network configurations
• #855285 was accepted as a blocker for breaking USB installation
• #854962 was accepted as a blocker for breaking firstboot of installed live systems
• #855481 was rejected as a blocker as it didn't break any criteria but accepted as NTH as errors in root password handling are obviously significant
• #854818 was rejected as a blocker as it didn't break any criteria but accepted as NTH as Secure Boot support at Alpha is clearly useful to have
• #855560 was rejected as a blocker as it appears simply to be caused by debugging being enabled in the kernel for Alpha
• #855646 was left undetermined as the group agreed the relevant criterion needed alteration; it would be revisited after the alteration was complete
• #855646 was left undetermined as the group agreed the relevant criterion needed alteration; it would be revisited after the alteration was complete
• #855824 was rejected as a blocker due to limited impact: basic graphics mode will work in practice in most important contexts
• #855784 was left undetermined until further data could be obtained
• #852792 was left undetermined until further data could be obtained
• #855465 was accepted as NTH for breaking the LXDE spin
• #855470 was accepted as NTH for breaking the LXDE spin
• #855510 was left undetermined until further data could be obtained
• #855477 was accepted as NTH for obvious visual impact

Release criteria revision

• Topic was tabled due to time taken by the blocker/nth review

Open floor

N/A

Action items

• tflink to build test image w/ new lorax to test #855289

IRC Log

adamw	#startmeeting Fedora QA meeting	15:00
zodbot	Meeting started Mon Sep 10 15:00:19 2012 UTC. The chair is adamw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.	15:00
zodbot	Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.	15:00
adamw	#meetingname fedora-qa	15:00
zodbot	The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa'	15:00
adamw	#topic roll call	15:00
adamw	morning folks, who's around to chase the f18 unicorn?	15:00
tflink	UNICORNS!!!!	15:01
* satellit listening		15:01
* Cerlyn watches		15:02
* brunowolff is lurking for about 20 minutes and then has to go to a work meeting.		15:02
* pschindl is here		15:02
jskladan	is it pony unicorn?	15:02
* jreznik is here to chase the snake		15:03
kparal	ouch	15:03
* nirik is lurking		15:03
Cerlyn	Perhaps those calling it a Spherical Cow have never seen a unicorn before	15:03
adamw	eeexcellent	15:03
tflink	jreznik: snake? I thought that we were talking about unicorns	15:03
brunowolff	jreznik picked a bad release to become the program manager!	15:04
tflink	adamw: channeling mr. burns are we?	15:04
* adamw pretends to wait for more people while actually making coffee		15:04
adamw	i *always* channel mr burns	15:04
adamw	.fire tflink	15:04
zodbot	adamw fires tflink	15:04
jreznik	tflink: unicorn snake?	15:05
* nb is lurking		15:06
tflink	jreznik: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_3IBfde2A9L8/TIVUuLrUpRI/AAAAAAAADsQ/trjM02LXkkE/s1600/pony-magic.png ?	15:06
* maxamillion is here		15:07
adamw	alrighty, maxamillion's here, we can start!	15:07
adamw	=)	15:08
adamw	#topic Fedora 18 status check / mini blocker review	15:08
adamw	so i was kinda hoping we'd have an rc1 already by today, but no-one was around to do an anaconda build over the weekend	15:08
adamw	when we do get the new build, though, it should be in significantly better shape than tc6	15:09
adamw	#chair tflink	15:09
zodbot	Current chairs: adamw tflink	15:09
jreznik	adamw: ok, thanks for info	15:09
adamw	go/no-go is on thursday so we need to nail down testing on the next build fast to make sure we can hit the date (finally)	15:09
* cpuobsessed is sitting in the back corner		15:09
adamw	that's pretty much it, any other general f18 thoughts?	15:10
jreznik	adamw: are anaconda guys working on a new build or poking is needed?	15:10
cpuobsessed	bug #845745	15:10
adamw	jreznik: haven't checked in with them yet, i only just woke up	15:11
adamw	cpuobsessed: what about it?	15:12
cpuobsessed	narrowed the breakage between 3.5.0-0.rc0.git6 and git7; so maybe those of us with certain ATI GPUs can start testing again	15:12
adamw	okay...	15:13
adamw	alright, are we ready for the mini-blocker review?	15:13
maxamillion	adamw: fire away captain	15:13
kparal	will saying 'no' help?	15:13
adamw	fire? where?! where?! abandon shop!	15:14
adamw	kparal: absolutely not.	15:14
kparal	I thought so	15:14
adamw	=)	15:14
maxamillion	kparal: was worth a shot ;)	15:14
adamw	#topic Fedora 18 - mini blocker review	15:14
adamw	over to you, cap'n flink	15:14
adamw	(we're all captains on this ship. it's suffering from severe rank inflation.)	15:14
tflink	#info 12 Proposed Blockers	15:14
tflink	#info 11 Accepted Blockers	15:14
tflink	#info 5 Proposed NTH	15:14
tflink	#info 5 Accepted NTH	15:14
tflink	#topic (855289) Dri files are missing in lorax ( /usr/lib64/dri/foo-dri.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory )	15:15
tflink	#link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=855289	15:15
tflink	#info Proposed Blockers, ON_QA	15:15
adamw	this is an icky one, viking is convinced this is causing a showstopper for him, but bcl isn't so sure this is the problem	15:16
adamw	no-one else seems to have chipped in yet	15:16
kparal	there is one more comment from Marcos	15:17
tflink	one other person chimed in, but it sounds like that might have been another instance of #854688	15:17
adamw	yeah, if it doesn't happen when you use English, it's not this bug.	15:18
kparal	I think I haven't tested TC6 DVD over USB. so I can't really say it doesn't happen to me	15:19
tflink	sounds like we might need more information but it's already part of the next lorax build	15:19
adamw	i don't think the medium is relevant to the bug	15:19
jreznik	yep	15:19
adamw	graphics hardware conceivably could be, though	15:19
adamw	tflink: the question is whether we pull that lorax build or not	15:19
adamw	nothing else needs it - in fact this is the only change in it	15:19
jreznik	we can ask them to retest with latest lorac but as bcl is not sure it's cause by missing dri... but...	15:20
adamw	jreznik: the problem is you can't really 're-test with latest lorax'	15:20
adamw	well, not easily	15:20
adamw	you have to build your own install image	15:20
adamw	lorax is used in the image compose process	15:20
tflink	we could build a test image pretty easily to see if that fixes things	15:20
tflink	if viking hasn't done so already	15:20
adamw	maybe that'd be best	15:21
jreznik	adamw: in next tc/rc?	15:21
adamw	viking's usually pretty available so he should be able to test it quickly	15:21
jreznik	but of course, sooner better	15:21
tflink	#action tflink to build test image w/ new lorax to test #855289	15:21
adamw	so punt on this till we have results from testing?	15:21
tflink	if this does indeed fix what viking was seeing - do we want to accept as a blocker	15:21
tflink	?	15:21
tflink	punt is a better option than a conditional vote, I suppose	15:22
adamw	since we have another review on wednesday	15:22
tflink	proposed #agreed 855289 - It's not clear how widespread this problem is or whether the dri files will fix it - will revisit after more testing	15:22
tflink	ack/nak/patch?	15:23
jreznik	ack as we can't do anything before we have more data...	15:23
kparal	ack	15:24
adamw	ack	15:24
tflink	#agreed 855289 - It's not clear how widespread this problem is or whether the dri files will fix it - will revisit after more testing	15:24
tflink	#topic (854471) anaconda stop at the "Error checking storage configuration"	15:24
tflink	#link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=854471	15:24
tflink	#info Proposed Blocker, NEW	15:24
kparal	this is waiting for developer action. but I'm afraid storage.log is missing	15:24
adamw	yep :(	15:25
adamw	that's the most important log...	15:25
kparal	I tried to ping twu but he was already gone. we can put another needinfo there	15:26
tflink	proposed #agreed 854471 - Still missing information needed to triage, not completely sure of cause. Will revisit when there is more information available.	15:26
kparal	just 2 people reported that they saw this. it has probably very limited scope	15:26
kparal	ack	15:26
adamw	ack	15:27
jreznik	ack	15:27
tflink	#agreed 854471 - Still missing information needed to triage, not completely sure of cause. Will revisit when there is more information available.	15:27
tflink	#topic (854586) F18 KDE Live (alpha TC5) Configure network dialogue isn't accessible in Anaconda	15:27
tflink	#link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=854586	15:27
tflink	#info Proposed Blocker, ON_QA	15:27
* tflink needs to leave for a bit		15:28
* adamw will carry on		15:29
adamw	so, i think what's been clarified since last week is you likely need a wireless connection to hit this	15:30
adamw	oh...or maybe i've got that wrong	15:31
kparal	I don't think so. is this the bug where you hit configure and it crashes? no matter whether live or DVD?	15:31
kparal	then you can do it with wired networking as well	15:31
* jreznik does not understand the bug		15:31
adamw	the reproducer is in https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=854586#c17	15:31
adamw	kparal: i'm fairly sure i tested in the last meeting and it didn't crash for me: clicking the configure button resulted in nothing happening, but no crash	15:32
kparal	adamw: hmm, you may be right	15:32
adamw	i think this may be specific to live images which don't include nm-c-e	15:32
jreznik	then for live it's not a bad idea to depend on native DE network manager	15:33
jreznik	and disable network spoke	15:33
kparal	I still believe it's worth +1 blocker, even it fails just for wifi	15:33
kparal	or +1 nth at least	15:33
adamw	i'm kinda leaning nth not blocker	15:33
adamw	(we already took it as nth)	15:33
adamw	but i'd like to be clearer...	15:33
* jreznik is more nth too and with no network spoke in live anaconda solution		15:33
adamw	the 'fix' for this in 18.6.6 is "require nm-connection-editor"	15:34
jreznik	not sure it makes sense to have live de nm configuration and then nm-c-e one, it's quite confusing but good for alpha I guess	15:35
adamw	propose we just leave it as nth since the fix is in 18.6.6 anyhow	15:35
jreznik	ok	15:35
kparal	fine with me	15:35
adamw	propose #agreed as this affects only more advanced network configuration in certain live environments, where it can be worked around by using the live environment's network configuration tools, this remains NTH and is rejectedblocker	15:36
adamw	er	15:36
adamw	propose #agreed as this affects only more advanced network configuration in certain live environments, where it can be worked around by using the live environment's network configuration tools, #854586 remains NTH and is rejectedblocker	15:36
jreznik	ack	15:36
kparal	ack	15:36
pschindl	ack	15:36
adamw	#agreed as this affects only more advanced network configuration in certain live environments, where it can be worked around by using the live environment's network configuration tools, #854586 remains NTH and is rejectedblocker	15:37
adamw	oh, foo, i don't have tflink's neat script-y thing	15:37
adamw	one sec, lemme see if i can find it	15:37
adamw	ha ha.	15:38
adamw	#topic (855285) "AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'addMacros'	15:38
adamw	#link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=855285	15:38
adamw	#info Proposed Blockers, MODIFIED	15:38
kparal	so what does this break?	15:39
adamw	per the description, "fix livecd-to-iso alpha network usb thumbdrives installs"	15:40
kparal	but we don't know whether it breaks dd too	15:40
adamw	yeah	15:41
* adamw is asking clumens		15:41
* kparal watching		15:41
adamw	clumens says "should affect all yum-based installs"	15:42
adamw	assuming 'yum-based install' means 'just about anything', sounds +1 blocker-y to me...	15:43
kparal	yep	15:43
tflink	yeah, isn't everything other than preupgrade yum-based?	15:43
adamw	who knows	15:43
adamw	hey, you're not here!	15:43
tflink	nope, not here	15:43
* jreznik does not see tflink		15:44
adamw	propose #agreed #855285 is accepted as a blocker per criterion "The installer must boot (if appropriate) and run on all primary architectures, with all system firmware types that are common on those architectures, from default live image, DVD, and boot.iso install media when written to an optical disc and when written to a USB stick with at least one of the officially supported methods"	15:44
adamw	tflink: do you have a hideous beard and shades?	15:44
kparal	ack	15:45
jreznik	any installation that uses yum to install packages, not live	15:45
tflink	adamw: I suppose hideous depends on personal taste, but no shades	15:45
tflink	why aren't we seeing this outside of USB, though?	15:45
tflink	if it affects all yum-based installs, shouldn't it be causing more problems for DVD and netinstall?	15:46
adamw	what i want to know is, why am i debating a figment of my imagination?	15:46
kparal	adamw: schizofrenia	15:47
tflink	it just bugs me that this is supposedly affecting only USB installs	15:48
tflink	unless I'm missing something, the scope of this should be much larger than litd or dd	15:48
adamw	the code is conditional	15:48
jreznik	tflink: if it's all yum based install and yum based means what clumens told at anaconda, yeah, it should have broader scope	15:49
adamw	http://www.fpaste.org/NC23/	15:49
adamw	perhaps that 'if...else' is only fulfilled in a USB context	15:49
kparal	if not selinux, hmm	15:49
adamw	but i really don't want to waste too much time on it...	15:50
adamw	since it's in 18.6.6 anyhow	15:50
tflink	yeah, it just bugs me that something checking for readability of a fs would only work on USB	15:50
tflink	since RO media should still be read-able	15:50
adamw	clyde kunkel hit it too (dupe)	15:51
adamw	and clumens seemed happy to pull it	15:51
tflink	it's a typo fix, though and already in the next build. so like adam said, not worth debating much	15:51
tflink	ack	15:51
adamw	one more ack?	15:53
jreznik	you convinced me, ack	15:54
adamw	#agreed #855285 is accepted as a blocker per criterion "The installer must boot (if appropriate) and run on all primary architectures, with all system firmware types that are common on those architectures, from default live image, DVD, and boot.iso install media when written to an optical disc and when written to a USB stick with at least one of the officially supported methods"	15:55
adamw	are you taking back over, invisible man>?	15:55
tflink	either way	15:55
tflink	#topic (854962) Installed system messed up with live stuff	15:55
tflink	#link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=854962	15:55
tflink	#info Proposed Blocker, ON_QA	15:55
tflink	it sounds like the issue here is that live install replicates the livecd instead of doing a proper install?	15:56
tflink	ie, liveuser autologin, no firstboot, anaconda still present	15:56
jreznik	tflink: yep	15:56
adamw	i included a very thin blocker rationalization in https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=854962#c12	15:56
adamw	you can vote +1 if it convinced you =)	15:56
tflink	I'm OK with blocker on this	15:57
tflink	+1	15:57
jreznik	adamw: my understanding skills are not good enough to understand it :) but I agree, it's a blocker	15:57
jreznik	+1	15:57
jreznik	it's fixed, just how do we want to pull firstboot into live system/installed live system?	15:58
adamw	jreznik: there is a special part of my brain labelled 'convoluted blocker justifications'	15:58
tflink	proposed #agreed 854962 - AcceptedBlocker - Violates the following F18 alpha release criterion for live installs: "In most cases (see Blocker_Bug_FAQ), a system installed according to any of the above criteria must boot to the 'firstboot' utility on the first boot after installation, without unintended user intervention, unless the user explicitly chooses to boot in non-graphical mode. The firstboot utility must be able to create a working user accoun	15:58
* jreznik tried to read it several time and gave up :)		15:58
tflink	proposed #agreed 854962 - AcceptedBlocker - Violates the following F18 alpha release criterion for live installs: "In most cases, a system installed according to any of the above criteria must boot to the 'firstboot' utility on the first boot after installation, without unintended user intervention, unless the user explicitly chooses to boot in non-graphical mode. The firstboot utility must be able to create a working user account"	15:58
kparal	ack	15:59
adamw	ack	15:59
aspratyush	ack	15:59
tflink	#agreed 854962 - AcceptedBlocker - Violates the following F18 alpha release criterion for live installs: "In most cases, a system installed according to any of the above criteria must boot to the 'firstboot' utility on the first boot after installation, without unintended user intervention, unless the user explicitly chooses to boot in non-graphical mode. The firstboot utility must be able to create a working user account"	15:59
tflink	#topic (855481) Root password is empty after install from live image without completing root pw spoke in anaconda	15:59
tflink	#link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=855481	15:59
tflink	#info Proposed Blocker, POST	15:59
jreznik	tflink: for previous bug, how do we plan to ship firstboot in live?	16:00
tflink	jreznik: not sure I follow you - firstboot should be on the lives for install	16:00
adamw	jreznik: same way we always have, as a package on the live image?	16:00
adamw	jreznik: it's set up not to run when booting live	16:00
* satellit soas live starts firsboot....		16:01
adamw	so this is another one which the criteria don't really cover...	16:02
jreznik	tflink: it's not available on tc6 lives, so it's not runned after the bug is fixed... or should the other comps bug fix it?	16:02
adamw	we don't have a criterion saying 'root should have a password' :)	16:02
adamw	jreznik: probably the comps thing. you can't rely at all on any tc6 package set.	16:02
tflink	jreznik: I don't remember where the issue was, but it could be affected by the same thing that wasn't pulling in firstboot earlier	16:03
tflink	either spin-kickstarts or comps	16:03
jreznik	yep, just raising it as an issue	16:03
jreznik	I did not report bug because of tc6 breakage, to be aware only	16:04
jreznik	let's move on :)	16:05
adamw	so, what do we want to do with 855481?	16:05
adamw	it really hits no criteria afaict	16:05
adamw	we can make it nth	16:05
adamw	propose a criterion	16:05
adamw	or take it through the escape hatch	16:05
tflink	what did we do about root pw for non-live installs?	16:06
adamw	what do you mean?	16:06
tflink	didn't we take that as a blocker?	16:07
tflink	when you couldn't set root pw on the non-live installs (bringing in the root pw spoke)	16:07
adamw	because it made text installs inaccessible	16:07
adamw	this doesn't make anything inaccessible, rather the contrary :)	16:08
jreznik	adamw: :)	16:08
adamw	the result of this bug is a root account you can log into without entering a password	16:08
adamw	not a root account you can't log into	16:08
tflink	I could go either way on this one, to be honest	16:08
jreznik	yep, that's the difference	16:08
jreznik	it could be a huge security issue	16:08
tflink	probably more towards +1 NTH, -1 blocker though	16:08
adamw	i worry that i'm maybe overcontorting on this one	16:08
tflink	I can't see blocking release because root pw isn't set on lives	16:09
adamw	are we trapped so far inside the criteria that we're at a point where anyone else would look at it and say 'well OBVIOUSLY that should be a blocker'?	16:09
jreznik	we should have criteria for this and it should be blocker	16:09
tflink	release -> alpha release	16:09
jreznik	but now nth is good too	16:09
tflink	proposed #agreed 855481 - RejectedBlocker, AcceptedNTH - Does not violate any F18 alpha release criterion but a root password set during live install should go through to the installed system	16:10
jreznik	adamw: I'd say anyone else would say it's a blocker :) not a good idea to not be aware that your system has no root password and it's accessible from everywhere	16:10
adamw	ack, for now	16:10
jreznik	ack	16:10
adamw	jreznik: yeah, that's what i'm worried about	16:10
* kparal reminds we don't have to have criteria to accept something as a blocker. criteria just helps in contentious issues		16:10
adamw	kparal: well, it needs to hit the criteria or the escape clause	16:11
adamw	(the one under the criteria)	16:11
kparal	we have different opinions then	16:11
kparal	nevermind, ack	16:12
tflink	#agreed 855481 - RejectedBlocker, AcceptedNTH - Does not violate any F18 alpha release criterion but a root password set during live install should go through to the installed system	16:12
tflink	#topic (854818) livecd-creator needs secure boot support	16:12
tflink	#link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=854818	16:12
tflink	#info Proposed Blocker, MODIFIED	16:12
tflink	-1 blocker, unsure about NTH	16:12
tflink	this seems like a boarderline bad idea to be pulling in so late	16:13
kparal	-1 blocker +1 nth	16:13
tflink	but the traditional installers already support it	16:13
tflink	parity would be nice	16:13
kparal	we need to have it included rather sooner than later, so that it can be tested properly	16:13
kparal	btw, is some SB hardware out there yet?	16:13
jreznik	kparal: it's really hard to get one... but would be great to get some hw for you guys	16:14
kparal	if there is a possibility someone will test it in Fedora space, having it in Alpha would be nice	16:14
adamw	yeah, i think the benefit of having it testable in alpha is significant	16:15
tflink	good point	16:15
tflink	+1 NTH	16:15
jreznik	pjones: ping, would it be possible to get some sb enabled hw for fedora qa guys?	16:15
adamw	+1	16:15
jreznik	yep I agree with you, +1 nth as I was the guy who said SB in alpha or not at all :) -1 blocker but +1 nth	16:16
tflink	proposed #agreed 854818 - RejectedBlocker, AcceptedNTH - While the lack of SB functionality doesn't violate any F18 alpha release criteria, it is a feature of F18 and already present in the non-live installers. SB would be useful to have in alpha for testing and thus thus bug is accepted as NTH for F18 alpha.	16:17
adamw	ack	16:17
kparal	jreznik: last time we counted, there were 6 of us in a 5-seat cubicle having 13 computers in total. one more computer is not a big deal :)	16:17
kparal	ack	16:17
pjones	jreznik: I don't have any way to get hardware other than just new development machines	16:17
pjones	(which I can't order so much as just show up sometimes)	16:18
adamw	the Brno Power Company's best customers	16:18
pjones	jreznik: though I think there are a couple of machines on the market they could /buy/ at this point	16:18
jreznik	or give a recommendation for hw for qa to obtain it?	16:18
jreznik	btw ack	16:18
tflink	#agreed 854818 - RejectedBlocker, AcceptedNTH - While the lack of SB functionality doesn't violate any F18 alpha release criteria, it is a feature of F18 and already present in the non-live installers. SB would be useful to have in alpha for testing and thus thus bug is accepted as NTH for F18 alpha.	16:18
tflink	#topic (855560) F18 KDE Live (alpha TC6) Very high CPU usage under KDE	16:19
tflink	#link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=855560	16:19
tflink	#info Proposed Blocker, NEW	16:19
tflink	I'	16:19
tflink	m not sure this is a blocker	16:19
kparal	I think this is just the debug kernel	16:19
kparal	I see it on all my machines	16:20
kparal	all video drivers	16:20
kparal	video performance is awful	16:20
kparal	but still usable	16:20
adamw	yeah, i'd like more info from the reporter but i'm inclined to -1.	16:20
pjones	jreznik: pretty much anything that claims it'll be able to run windows 8 /should/ have it, I /think/	16:20
jreznik	-1 blocker	16:20
jreznik	pjones: ok, kparal do you think you could get some budget? or I can try to ask for some for you :)	16:21
tflink	proposed #agreed 855560 - RejectedBlocker - This seems to be caused by the debug kernel used until the beta release and thus, not much of a bug. If it turns out to be something other than the debug kernel, please re-propose as a blocker.	16:21
jreznik	ack	16:21
kparal	ack	16:21
* tflink has a machine that should be SB capable		16:21
adamw	ack	16:22
pjones	(there is some discrepancy between being windows 8 logoed, which requires sb on by default, and being able to upgrade to windows 8 on the machine)	16:22
tflink	#agreed 855560 - RejectedBlocker - This seems to be caused by the debug kernel used until the beta release and thus, not much of a bug. If it turns out to be something other than the debug kernel, please re-propose as a blocker.	16:22
tflink	#topic (855644) F18 KDE Live (alpha TC5) Anaconda custom partition setup: no access to existing LVM/LUKS volumes	16:22
tflink	#link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=855644	16:22
tflink	#info Proposed Blocker, NEW	16:22
kparal	we still haven't adjusted Alpha requirements, as pschindl proposed. so we still require LVM and LUKS to work under Alpha	16:23
* kparal just reminds		16:23
tflink	I didn't think that custom partitioning was planned much for alpha	16:24
adamw	yeah, i mentioned this is another proposed blocker	16:24
adamw	i think we should probably check with #anaconda if this is feasible	16:25
kparal	ah, and "existing Linux partitions" is in Alpha criteria too	16:25
adamw	kparal: frankly i'd rather we don't try to apply that criterion as it stands	16:26
adamw	it just isn't applicable to newUI	16:26
adamw	we need to decide where we want to draw the alpha and beta lines for newUI from scratch	16:26
kparal	ok. the only requirement I have is that anaconda doesn't confuse the user saying it can do something and then perform something completely different. but I don't think it needs to be able to do existing partitions and LVM/LUKS in Alpha	16:27
adamw	my instinct is also -1, but i'd like to be able to quantify it a bit more...	16:28
adamw	tflink?	16:28
tflink	pretty much what kparal said, doesn't need to be there but would be nice if it didn't appear as it should work instead of us saying "well, that isn't working for alpha"	16:29
tflink	sounds like we have some criteria proposals to do/finish, though	16:30
adamw	yeah	16:31
adamw	sounds like we're trending -1 but not convinced of ourselves :)	16:31
tflink	proposed #agreed 855644 - While this does qualify as a blocker according to the F18 alpha release criterion as written at this time, we feel that the blocker criteria should be modified to better reflect what is reasonable to expect from anaconda and this should not be an alpha blocker. Will re-visit once appliciable criteria have been voted on and modified	16:33
kparal	it anaconda says "sorry can't do that" it's OK. if it erases the whole disk instead, it not OK	16:33
kparal	ack	16:33
adamw	ack	16:33
jreznik	ack	16:33
tflink	#agreed 855644 - While this does qualify as a blocker according to the F18 alpha release criterion as written at this time, we feel that the blocker criteria should be modified to better reflect what is reasonable to expect from anaconda and this should not be an alpha blocker. Will re-visit once appliciable criteria have been voted on and modified	16:33
tflink	#topic (855646) F18 KDE Live (alpha TC5) Anaconda custom partition setup: missing volume/device identification	16:34
tflink	#link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=855646	16:34
tflink	#info Proposed Blocker, NEW	16:34
tflink	pretty much the same as the last bug, I think	16:35
jreznik	yep	16:35
kparal	agree	16:35
adamw	yeah, though i'm more clearly -1 on this one...	16:36
tflink	#agreed 855646 - While this does qualify as a blocker according to the F18 alpha release criterion as written at this time, we feel that the blocker criteria should be modified to better reflect what is reasonable to expect from anaconda and this should not be an alpha blocker. Will re-visit once appliciable criteria have been voted on and modified.	16:36
tflink	yay for recycling!	16:36
adamw	belay that	16:36
adamw	it's not so clearly a violation of the criteria as the last one	16:36
adamw	i'd say s/does/may/	16:36
tflink	#agreed 855646 - While this may qualify as a blocker according to the F18 alpha release criterion as written at this time, we feel that the blocker criteria should be modified to better reflect what is reasonable to expect from anaconda and this should not be an alpha blocker. Will re-visit once appliciable criteria have been voted on and modified.	16:37
adamw	alrighty	16:37
tflink	or we could just reject it, I suppose	16:37
adamw	meh, we can do it again wed	16:38
adamw	when there'll be more people	16:38
tflink	but I'm not clear on how the UI would work if there is no consistency in /dev/ names	16:38
tflink	k, works for me	16:38
adamw	it could at least filter out the device you're installing from	16:38
tflink	ack/nak/patch?	16:38
adamw	which it ought to do anyhow	16:38
adamw	er, you did #agreed	16:38
adamw	not propose #agreed	16:38
adamw	so we have two agreements now	16:38
tflink	oh, whoops	16:39
tflink	#undo	16:39
zodbot	Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Agreed object at 0x2d902490>	16:39
tflink	#undo	16:39
zodbot	Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Agreed object at 0x29e3e250>	16:39
tflink	proposed #agreed 855646 - While this may qualify as a blocker according to the F18 alpha release criterion as written at this time, we feel that the blocker criteria should be modified to better reflect what is reasonable to expect from anaconda and this should not be an alpha blocker. Will re-visit once appliciable criteria have been voted on and modified.	16:39
adamw	ack	16:40
kparal	ack	16:40
jah	moi	16:40
adamw	vous?	16:40
tflink	#agreed 855646 - While this may qualify as a blocker according to the F18 alpha release criterion as written at this time, we feel that the blocker criteria should be modified to better reflect what is reasonable to expect from anaconda and this should not be an alpha blocker. Will re-visit once appliciable criteria have been voted on and modified.	16:41
tflink	#topic (855824) vesa driver is not used on Live	16:41
tflink	#link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=855824	16:41
tflink	#info Proposed Blocker, NEW	16:41
adamw	so i suspect what's going on here is that xdriver= isn't being honored	16:42
tflink	this might end up being a beta blocker	16:42
adamw	but nomodeset is	16:42
adamw	in practice nomodeset will ensure vesa is used on just about any bit of real hardware	16:42
adamw	so i'm -1/-1	16:42
tflink	are there docs that need to be updated, then?	16:43
adamw	we can fiddle with the graphics in a KVM in enough other ways that the menu entry being broken isn't a real problem	16:43
adamw	docs?	16:43
tflink	test cases for booting into vesa	16:43
kparal	should we just move this to F18Beta?	16:44
adamw	tflink: no, the test case is correct	16:44
kparal	adamw: well it could mention the VM case	16:44
adamw	brb, call of nature	16:44
adamw	nah, i wouldn't want to change the test fase	16:44
adamw	case	16:44
tflink	proposed #agreed 855824 - RejectedBlocker - 'nomodeset' should be working in place of vesa and when booting into a vm, the device type can be changed as an easy workaround in place of booting w/ vesa driver. Since this isn't a direct violation of F18 alpha release criteria and there are easy workarounds - rejected as blocker for F18 alpha	16:44
adamw	the test case is correct and the menu entry *ought* to work in KVMs	16:45
tflink	ack/nak/patch?	16:45
adamw	nack	16:45
adamw	the fact that it doesn't is a genuine bug	16:45
adamw	i just don't think it's an important one	16:45
tflink	ok	16:45
adamw	tflink: the menu entry in question passes the parameters 'nomodeset xdriver=vesa'	16:45
adamw	i think the bug here is that nothing's honoring the 'xdriver=vesa' part of that	16:45
adamw	but in practice, on almost everything except a KVM, the 'nomodeset' part, these days, will result in the vesa driver being used anyway	16:46
jreznik	seems like it works on real hw	16:46
kparal	so should I re-propose this for later milestones or not?	16:46
adamw	Back In The Day it wouldn't have done, as the native drivers still had UMS code. but nowadays, for all common hardware, the drivers don't have UMS code, so when 'nomodeset' is passed, X winds up falling back to vesa	16:46
adamw	kparal: up to you. i'd vote -1 at any point, assuming my understanding above is correct, but that's just one vote :)	16:46
tflink	proposed #agreed 855824 - RejectedBlocker - While there is a bug here, it only affects VMs. Since using 'nomodeset' is a possible workaround for either bare metal or VMs and when booting into a VM, the device type can be changed - there are easy workarounds in place of booting w/ vesa driver specified. Since this isn't a direct violation of F18 alpha release criteria and there are easy workarounds - rejected as blocker for F18 alpha	16:47
kparal	ack	16:47
jreznik	ack	16:47
tflink	#agreed 855824 - RejectedBlocker - While there is a bug here, it only affects VMs. Since using 'nomodeset' is a possible workaround for either bare metal or VMs and when booting into a VM, the device type can be changed - there are easy workarounds in place of booting w/ vesa driver specified. Since this isn't a direct violation of F18 alpha release criteria and there are easy workarounds - rejected as blocker for F18 alpha	16:49
tflink	#topic (855784) packagekit waits for authentication	16:49
tflink	#link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=855784	16:49
tflink	#info Proposed Blocker, NEW	16:49
kparal	this will require multiple people to re-verify	16:49
kparal	it works for jreznik in a clean installation. I have upgraded system (since TC4 or so) and it doesn't	16:50
tflink	yeah, sounds like a punt for now while waiting for more testing/workarounds/verification	16:50
jreznik	yep, clean installation of live + latest packagekit = works for me	16:50
kparal	jreznik: how do you install Live when it fails to boot on missing initrd?	16:51
jreznik	kparal: it works in kvm	16:51
tflink	proposed #agreed 855784 - This may not affect new installs and may have other workarounds. Needs more testing and/or reproduction before making a decision on blocker status for F18 alpha - will revisit.	16:51
kparal	jreznik: interesting	16:52
adamw	this is a kind of follow-on from https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=854209 ?	16:53
adamw	ack, anyhow	16:53
kparal	adamw: yes	16:53
tflink	any other ack/nak/patch?	16:53
jreznik	adamw: that's different but it could be related to policy kit selinux one	16:54
jreznik	as it's tc4 updated...	16:54
kparal	ack	16:54
tflink	#agreed 855784 - This may not affect new installs and may have other workarounds. Needs more testing and/or reproduction before making a decision on blocker status for F18 alpha - will revisit.	16:55
tflink	OK, that's all of the proposed blockers	16:55
tflink	any objections to skipping the accepted blockers and just doing the proposed NTHs?	16:55
kparal	+1	16:55
adamw	+1	16:56
tflink	OK, 2 +1s -> objections -> time to go through all of the accepted blockers :-P	16:56
* tflink is joking		16:56
tflink	#topic (852792) [Configure] button in network spoke doesn't work (nm-c-e fails to run)	16:56
tflink	#link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=852792	16:56
tflink	#info Proposed NTH, ASSIGNED	16:56
tflink	wow, going back and forth between the blocker page mockups and the currently active page is really jarring	16:58
adamw	well, this seems confused as hell.	17:00
tflink	it sounds to me like c#12 might be a different bug	17:01
adamw	yeah	17:02
adamw	i think i might be able to test this out locally	17:02
adamw	and provide better info to re-vote later	17:03
tflink	but I'm OK with the original bug being NTH, assuming that I understand what's going on	17:03
tflink	works for me	17:03
adamw	if this is truly why the 'configure' button in liveinst does nothing in the GNOME spin, then yeah, probably +1	17:03
tflink	proposed #agreed 852792 - There seems to be quite a bit of confusion in the bug about what exactly is going on here - will revisit once the issue is clarified and re-tested	17:04
tflink	this is only lives?	17:04
tflink	nvm, just potentially related	17:04
tflink	ack/nak/patch?	17:04
adamw	ack	17:05
tflink	looks like we may have lost almost everyone else	17:06
adamw	how could they possibly leave when we're having so much fun?!	17:06
* jreznik is still here		17:06
adamw	i'd like to get at least the next two proposed nth accepted	17:06
adamw	they're pretty important for non-blocking spins	17:06
* tflink plays jeopordy music in the bkground		17:06
tflink	time's up	17:07
tflink	#agreed 852792 - There seems to be quite a bit of confusion in the bug about what exactly is going on here - will revisit once the issue is clarified and re-tested	17:07
tflink	#topic (855465) osmo depends on libsyncml, which currently cannot be installed (f18/rawhide)	17:07
tflink	#link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=855465	17:07
tflink	#info Proposed NTH, ON_QA	17:07
tflink	+1 NTH	17:08
jreznik	+1 nth, fixed, karma +1 from me	17:08
adamw	+1	17:08
kparal	+1 nth	17:08
adamw	simples!	17:08
tflink	proposed #agreed 855465 - AcceptedNTH - Prevents creation of LXDE spin which becomes NTH as LXDE is a secondary DE.	17:09
tflink	ack/nak/patch?	17:09
adamw	ack	17:10
jreznik	ack	17:10
kparal	ack	17:10
tflink	#agreed 855465 - AcceptedNTH - Prevents creation of LXDE spin which becomes NTH as LXDE is a secondary DE.	17:10
tflink	#topic (855470) lxdm should ship a systemd preset to ensure it's enabled after install	17:10
tflink	#link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=855470	17:10
tflink	#info Proposed NTH, NEW	17:10
tflink	proposed #agreed 855465 - AcceptedNTH - Prevents booting of LXDE spin after installation from livecd which becomes NTH as LXDE is a secondary DE.	17:10
tflink	er, that's not quite right	17:11
tflink	proposed #agreed 855465 - AcceptedNTH - Prevents booting of graphical DM for LXDE spin after installation from livecd - since violations of F18 release criteria for secondary DEs are NTH by definition.	17:12
tflink	damnation, I did it again	17:12
tflink	proposed #agreed 855470 - AcceptedNTH - Prevents booting of graphical DM for LXDE spin after installation from livecd - since violations of F18 release criteria for secondary DEs are NTH by definition.	17:12
tflink	third time's the charm, I suppose	17:12
tflink	or the hazards of recycling	17:13
kparal	can I ack now?	17:13
kparal	is it safe?	17:13
tflink	it's never safe ...	17:13
* tflink looks around, all paranoid		17:13
adamw	ack	17:13
jreznik	ack	17:13
kparal	ack	17:13
tflink	#agreed 855470 - AcceptedNTH - Prevents booting of graphical DM for LXDE spin after installation from livecd - since violations of F18 release criteria for secondary DEs are NTH by definition.	17:14
tflink	#topic (855510) TC5: Cannot get past "Booting in ...... in 0 seconds" screen on iMac 2011 (booting from USB)	17:14
tflink	#link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=855510	17:14
tflink	#info Proposed NTH, NEW	17:14
tflink	does this qualify for alpha?	17:14
tflink	either way, needs more info	17:15
tflink	USB creation method, mostly	17:15
kparal	we can test Mac Mini if it helps	17:15
adamw	TC5 was before some EFI fixes	17:15
adamw	anyway, yeah, needslotsofinfo	17:16
kparal	let's give action item to jskladan, he has the Mac on his desk ;-)	17:16
tflink	proposed #agreed 855510 - This needs much more information before making a decision on NTH - method used for creating the USB stick for one. There have also been EFI related fixes since TC5, retesting with a >= TC6 would also be helpful.	17:17
* kparal loves proposing action items for other people		17:17
jskladan	kparal: i se what you did there :)	17:17
tflink	#action kparal to propose action item to get jskladan to do kparal's work for him	17:17
kparal	jskladan: you want to play with the Mac anyway, I know you	17:17
jskladan	aaaaw, that's true :)	17:18
kparal	he accepted!	17:18
tflink	anyhow, any ack/nak/patch so we can be done with this meeting?	17:18
kparal	ack	17:18
tflink	#undo	17:18
zodbot	Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x36c49850>	17:18
jskladan	patch: for 30% of his salary ;)	17:19
jreznik	ack	17:19
tflink	#agreed 855510 - This needs much more information before making a decision on NTH - method used for creating the USB stick for one. There have also been EFI related fixes since TC5, retesting with a >= TC6 would also be helpful.	17:19
tflink	last proposed NTH ...	17:19
tflink	#topic (855477) Many icons missing when running anaconda within a live Xfce image	17:19
tflink	#link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=855477	17:19
tflink	#info Proposed NTH, NEW	17:19
tflink	+1 NTH	17:20
kparal	nice pictures	17:20
kparal	+1 nth	17:20
jreznik	it's just cosmetic ;)	17:20
tflink	proposed #agreed 855477 - AcceptedNTH - While the installer is still usable in XFCE, it looks terrible and looks broken. XFCE is a non-primary DE and thus, this is not a blocker.	17:20
tflink	ack/nak/patch?	17:21
adamw	fwiw this may be an xfce bug not anaconda	17:21
adamw	note all the missing icons in the xfce tray	17:21
adamw	but hey, i'd be +1 nth either way	17:21
nirik	huh.	17:21
nirik	I didn't see any of that on the last nightly I tried.	17:21
kparal	ack	17:21
* nirik can test again with todays. Recent ones had gdm in them		17:21
tflink	other ack/nak/patch?	17:22
adamw	nirik: yeah, it may depend on exactly waht comps i got	17:22
* tflink reaches for the spiky 2x4 of timely voting "encouragement"		17:23
nirik	ack	17:23
tflink	#agreed 855477 - AcceptedNTH - While the installer is still usable in XFCE, it looks terrible and looks broken. XFCE is a non-primary DE and thus, this is not a blocker.	17:24
tflink	OK, that would be all of the proposed blockers and NTH on my list	17:24
tflink	and since we seem to have lost most interest, I do believe that we're done with the "mini" blocker review	17:24
jreznik	"mini" :)	17:24
adamw	whew	17:25
adamw	thanks tflink	17:25
adamw	i propose we just end this meeting here, since we've lost a lot of people	17:25
adamw	i don't see any value in discussing criteria changes with this few bodies	17:25
adamw	let's do this just in case....	17:26
tflink	agreed	17:26
* kparal sees corpses all around...		17:26
adamw	#info release criteria topic is postponed due to length of previous segment and lack of people	17:26
adamw	#topic open floor	17:26
adamw	anyone for open floor?	17:26
* jreznik is corpse now...		17:26
* tflink will have a new draft of the blocker tracking page to send out (hopefully) soon		17:26
tflink	looks lots different from the previous versions	17:27
jreznik	what bits we currently miss for rc?	17:27
adamw	jreznik: a new anaconda build is all really	17:28
adamw	though we might need to do something about partitioning	17:28
* adamw sets fuse for 3 mins		17:30
nirik	adamw: I see icons fine in todays nightly xfce...	17:31
nirik	so might have been some comps issue or something.	17:31
adamw	do nightlies use updates-testing?	17:31
nirik	no	17:33
adamw	probably comps then yeah.	17:33
adamw	we'll see what tc7/rc1 spits out.	17:33
* nirik nods		17:33
adamw	okay!	17:36
adamw	let's get back to something vaguely resembling work	17:36
adamw	thanks for coming all	17:36
adamw	#endmeeting	17:36

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