QA/Meetings/20130513

Agenda

• Previous meeting follow-up
• Fedora 19 Beta status/planning
• Test Days
• Open floor

Previous meeting follow-up

• martix or adamw to write a Graphics Test Week recap email - still not done yet, unfortunately
• tflink to write a list post announcing the blocker bug proposal webapp - not done yet
• brunowolff to update the FE guidelines to reflect the agreement (see above) - this was done
• adamw to look into Test_Day:2013-04-30_MariaDB lack of participation and see if we should re-run it - not done yet
• kparal to ensure abrt and sssd test days have live images ready - this was done, images were available for both events
• adamw to do some promotion for the test days - blog post and forum post and twitter done

Fedora 19 Beta status/planning

• Beta TC4 was already under testing, some significant bugs found
• Beta freeze was scheduled for 2013-05-14; next goal was to build an RC ASAP

Test Days

• Test_Day:2013-05-07_ABRT went ahead successfully, though with little testing from outside of Brno
• Test_Day:2013-05-09_SSSD_Improvements_and_AD_Integration went ahead and looks to have got a good set of test results
• NetworkManager Test Day was postponed to 2013-06-04

Open floor

• GNOME 3.8.2 update was expected to land soon, and needed karma so we could try to get it in ahead of Beta freeze
• Desktop team was still working on getting the spin below the size target
• LXDE will continue to target 700 MB, cwickert to work on slimming it down
• nirik was working on Xfce spin size

Action items

• martix or adamw to write a Graphics Test Week recap email
• tflink to write a list post announcing the blocker bug proposal webapp
• adamw to look into Test_Day:2013-04-30_MariaDB lack of participation and see if we should re-run it
• brunowolff to re-test bug #909473 and re-open if it's still bad

IRC Log

adamw	#startmeeting Fedora QA meeting	15:02
zodbot	Meeting started Mon May 13 15:02:11 2013 UTC. The chair is adamw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.	15:02
zodbot	Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.	15:02
adamw	#meetingname fedora-qa	15:02
zodbot	The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa'	15:02
adamw	#topic roll call	15:02
* jskladan lurks		15:02
adamw	calling all rolls	15:02
tflink	roll!	15:02
* mkrizek is here		15:02
* pschindl is here		15:02
* brunowolff is here		15:02
* Viking-Ice is here		15:03
jreiser	jreiser lurks	15:03
* satellit listening		15:03
adamw	morning folks	15:04
adamw	#topic previous meeting follow-up	15:04
adamw	bit of a bumper crop here	15:04
adamw	#info "martix or adamw to write a Graphics Test Week recap email" - still not done yet. we suck	15:04
adamw	#action martix or adamw to write a Graphics Test Week recap email	15:04
adamw	tflink to write a list post announcing the blocker bug proposal webapp - I believe you did that?	15:05
tflink	I don't think I did	15:05
tflink	nope, I don't see one	15:06
adamw	ah, well you suck too	15:06
adamw	#action tflink to write a list post announcing the blocker bug proposal webapp	15:06
adamw	"brunowolff to update the FE guidelines to reflect the agreement (see above)"	15:06
brunowolff	#link http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test/2013-May/115318.html	15:06
adamw	great job of legibility there, me	15:06
adamw	#info "brunowolff to update the FE guidelines to reflect the agreement (see above)" - this was done, see https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test/2013-May/115318.html	15:07
adamw	thanks bruno!	15:07
brunowolff	I didn't get any feedback from the message posted to the test list.	15:07
adamw	"adamw to look into Test_Day:2013-04-30_MariaDB lack of participation and see if we should re-run it"	15:07
adamw	brunowolff: it looked fine to me, so no action needed...i guess everyone else was the same	15:07
adamw	yeah, I didn't do this one either, good lord, I need to read my action items	15:07
adamw	#info "adamw to look into Test_Day:2013-04-30_MariaDB lack of participation and see if we should re-run it" - not done yet	15:08
adamw	#action adamw to look into Test_Day:2013-04-30_MariaDB lack of participation and see if we should re-run it	15:08
adamw	#info "tflink to write a list post announcing the blocker bug proposal webapp" - not done yet	15:08
adamw	"kparal to ensure abrt and sssd test days have live images ready" - do we have a kparal?	15:08
Viking-Ice	adamw, it's simple no point in re-running it	15:08
adamw	no kparal, okay	15:10
adamw	let me take a look	15:10
adamw	#info "kparal to ensure abrt and sssd test days have live images ready" - this got done, by the looks of things, both pages have live images listed	15:11
adamw	#info "adamw to do some promotion for the test days" - this was done, i got blog posts and twitter messages out: http://www.happyassassin.net/2013/05/06/abrt-and-sssd-test-days-this-week/	15:11
adamw	#topic Fedora 19 Beta status/planning	15:11
adamw	So, any particular notes on Beta, anyone? we'll be hitting freeze soon	15:12
adamw	#info Beta TC4 is currently under testing, some significant bugs found already	15:12
Viking-Ice	adamw, promotion means handing it out to marketing not private blog post that nobody reads	15:12
jreiser	gdm greeter to gnome shell does not work on non-3D cards. Bug 955779 graphical desktop does not start.	15:12
Viking-Ice	( or some or few people read ) marketing should just handle that stuff for us	15:13
brunowolff	cwickert asked about images for the non-desktop spins on the spins list. I said that for alpha/beta nightlies should be used.	15:13
jreiser	There is a rumor of gnome 3.8.2 arriving on Tuesday, perhaps fedora-branched on wednesday. Wait and see?	15:15
adamw	jreiser: did you create passwords for your test users?	15:16
adamw	jreiser: well, not a rumour, we're trying to get it done ahead of the freeze indeed	15:16
jreiser	yes, I have passwords. This is an alpha that has been updated daily.	15:17
adamw	i'm pretty sure that "ERROR:gdm-slave.c:1094:_get_uid_and_gid_for_user: assertion failed: (username != NULL)" is what I saw when I tried creating a user with no password via g-i-s (it was entertaining)	15:17
adamw	hum, then probably something different	15:17
adamw	can you try and reproduce with a clean install? or not practical?	15:17
jreiser	OK, I'll do a clean install from TC4.	15:17
adamw	has anyone else seen this one?	15:18
brunowolff	Bug 955779 sounds pretty similar to what I was seeing after gdm/gnome-shell got fixed enough that they didn't crash while using llvmpipe on non-SSE2 CPUs.	15:19
robatino	955779 looks like my 946964	15:20
adamw	brunowolff: ah yeah, what was the bug# for that?	15:20
robatino	thanks for that, i'll probably mark mine as a dupe - my video is nvidia btw	15:20
jreiser	No crash, but no transition to desktop. just all gray, everybody waiting.	15:20
brunowolff	I am not sure. I was just looking, but I think it got closed since the crashing part was fixed, even if things were still pretty unusable.	15:21
brunowolff	I'll look harder.	15:21
adamw	brunowolff: i remember the bug yeah, i'm just blanking on the # / title	15:21
jreiser	strace shows 1st "can you do 3D" gets a no, but 2nd ask gets a Yes.	15:21
adamw	https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=909473	15:21
adamw	jreiser: see my latest comment	15:21
adamw	brunowolff: doesn't really look the same, but certainly possibly related	15:22
brunowolff	Yeah, 909473. I think the reported problem was different, but the state after the fix seemed a bit similar.	15:23
jreiser	adamw: 909473 last comment is a question "open new X bug or not?" If that will help, I'll do it.	15:23
adamw	jreiser: well to me it doesn't, really, but I might be reading it wrong...	15:24
adamw	jreiser: I think we'd best wait for gdm input at this point	15:24
brunowolff	I also was using an ATI 9200 for some of the testing.	15:24
brunowolff	I haven't look at it much since, because it takes a lot of messing around to test, since my old slow to boot machines have been switched over to kdm/xfce.	15:25
jreiser	Ok, I'll try clean TC4, then wait for gdm 3.8.2	15:25
jreiser	I see same trouble on xfce, too.	15:26
adamw	jreiser: i _think_ your issue may simply be a clean report of what happens with a blacklisted 3D adapter at present	15:26
adamw	now I come to think of it, I'm not sure we have any other bug report for that case	15:26
adamw	jreiser: have you tested GDM/GNOME with the laundry list of cards in c#13?	15:26
adamw	i'd guess it'd work better with those?	15:26
jreiser	955779#c13 gives exact status on all cards as of April 23. "3D" cards pass, "X does not support 3D" cards fail.	15:28
halfline	jreiser: re 955779 do you have gnome-initial-setup installed ?	15:30
adamw	jreiser: Xfce and lightdm behave completely differently from GNOME and gdm in this regards, so that comment is more confusing than enlightening	15:30
adamw	it's strange that they seem to respond 'the same' for you, but the actual code paths are pretty different	15:31
adamw	lightdm doesn't have any form of '3D test' because it doesn't need to care	15:31
jreiser	Please restate what you want me to try.	15:31
adamw	(afaik anyway)	15:31
adamw	jreiser: try the combination of GDM/GNOME on all those cards, rather than lightdm/Xfce	15:31
halfline	i'd personally like you to try yum -y install gnome-initial-setup	15:31
adamw	only because I know the maintainer would want the same; they do not behave the same at all	15:31
jreiser	So far I have installed default gnome first, then "yum groupinstall xfce-desktop".	15:32
jreiser	I get gdm as greeter. Both gnome desktop and xfce session fail to reach desktop.	15:32
halfline	ahh interesting	15:32
jreiser	That's why I believe the problem is in gdm.	15:32
adamw	jreiser: comment #13 talks about trying the Xfce live image. what I'm saying is that that tells us nothing about gdm's behaviour	15:33
adamw	i just wanted to know how your different adapters/machines behaved with GDM.	15:33
adamw	clearly you have a problem with GDM on the 9200, but I wanted to clarify if you saw it with any other adapters.	15:34
jreiser	I believe that "X11 supports 3D" implies that gdm+gnome works, and gdm+xfce works.	15:34
jreiser	The problem is "x11 does not support 3d" implies failure of gdm greeter.	15:35
adamw	anyhow	15:35
adamw	i think we have Top Men on the case now	15:36
halfline	jreiser: gnome-session does this little dance at startup	15:36
halfline	where it first runs check-accelerated and sees if it succeeds	15:36
halfline	if it fails, it forces software rendering	15:36
halfline	and then runs check-accelerated again	15:36
halfline	the second run should always succeed	15:36
halfline	that's why you see it twice in your trace	15:36
halfline	it's not able to do accelerated rendering the first time around	15:36
halfline	so it's falling back to software	15:37
adamw	#info Beta freeze is tomorrow, 2013-05-14; next goal is to build an RC ASAP	15:37
halfline	let's chat in #fedora-devel	15:37
jreiser	halfline: yes, that is what I see. This is Pentium4, has sse2. problem is no desktop after that dance.	15:37
adamw	thanks halfline!	15:38
jreiser	halfline: going to #fedora-devel	15:38
adamw	brunowolff: so the behaviour on non-SSE2 CPUs is still as bad as described in 909473 >	15:38
adamw	?	15:38
brunowolff	I need to retest.	15:39
brunowolff	But the last time I tried, gnome wasn't really usable.	15:40
adamw	ok, could you do that? and if it's still bad let's just re-open the bug to try and trigger ajax's attention	15:40
adamw	#action brunowolff to re-test 909473 and re-open if it's still bad	15:40
adamw	okay...anything else to cover on the f19 front?	15:41
adamw	#info GNOME 3.8.2 is coming, we will try to land it in Beta just ahead of the freeze'	15:41
brunowolff	Even if it gets fixed, my CPUs aren't really good enough to make gnome pleasant. I'll probably be using xfce for the rest of the lifetime of these machines.	15:41
adamw	still, it'd be good to have it fixed	15:41
* satellit will this break cinnamon?		15:41
adamw	satellit: will what?	15:41
adamw	GNOME 3.8.2? I'd hope not; it's a bugfix release	15:41
satellit	gnome upgrade	15:42
satellit	fyi cinnamon works at this time	15:42
adamw	yeah, I know, I tested it	15:42
brunowolff	Isn't it landing the day of the freeze?	15:42
Viking-Ice	let's hope it get's included in beta	15:43
brunowolff	That's not much time to get it tested and into stable.	15:43
adamw	brunowolff: yeah, I know, I'm going to try and co-ordinate getting karma on it	15:44
adamw	if we don't make it, though, we'll file an FE bug	15:45
adamw	#topic Test Days	15:45
adamw	#info https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2013-05-07_ABRT went ahead and we got some good results, though not much testing outside of RH's Brno office	15:46
adamw	#info https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2013-05-09_SSSD_Improvements_and_AD_Integration went ahead and looks like there was a good amount of testing	15:46
adamw	#info NetworkManager test day has been postponed to 2013-06-04: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2013-06-04_Network_Manager	15:47
adamw	anything else on test days?	15:47
adamw	Martix_: is everything in hand for next week's?	15:48
Martix_	no :-(	15:48
adamw	oh dear :( what's the problem?	15:48
Martix_	note: NM test day has been moved to 2013-06-04	15:49
adamw	yeah, I noted that	15:49
adamw	hence "next week's"	15:49
adamw	AnacondaNewUI Followup and Thermostat are scheduled for next week	15:50
Martix_	I must admit I don't have much time until June for Test Days :-/	15:50
adamw	ah	15:50
adamw	in that case, any help with wrangling the remaining May test days is appreciated, I'll try and help out	15:50
Martix_	adamw: thank you	15:50
Martix_	adamw: btw I suggested to reschedule MariaDB TD, but I'm not sure if they can get more testers	15:52
adamw	#topic Open floor	15:52
adamw	we've got 8 minutes for open floor before exciting blocker review fun starts up in #fedora-blocker-review: anything to discuss?	15:52
kalev	I have collected a few fixes that should help get the desktop live media closer to the target size	15:53
* satellit wait for blocker review for FE requst		15:53
Viking-Ice	so what we are going to include the gnome 3.8.2 in beta or not?	15:53
kalev	I'll send an email to the test list a bit later, would be awesome to get some testing & karma to have them included in the Beta release	15:53
kalev	(waiting for one more build)	15:53
adamw	Viking-Ice: i'm hoping we can. if we can get it done ahead of tomorrow, fine. if not, i'll file an FE ticket and people will have to vote on it	15:54
adamw	Viking-Ice: if you and I each submit karma once the update is in, then we only need one other person :)	15:54
adamw	(assuming it actually works, of course)	15:55
adamw	#info GNOME 3.8.2 update should be landing soon, please test and file karma so we can try to get it in ahead of freeze	15:55
kalev	we'll need some releng coordination to get an updates-testing push once the update is ready	15:55
adamw	kalev: i'll ask releng to do that, but people can get it from bodhi in the mean time	15:55
kalev	hard to test otherwise	15:55
Viking-Ice	adamw, yeah well doing so we risk breaking and delaying beta	15:55
kalev	cool	15:55
Viking-Ice	not doing so we risk mass duplicated bug report from users	15:56
adamw	Viking-Ice: i think it'd be ok to get it in the first day or two of freeze, after that it'd be worrying	15:56
adamw	but if we co-ordinate we should be able to get it done today/tomorrow, so hopefully no problems	15:56
adamw	#info desktop team is still working on getting the spin below the size target	15:57
Viking-Ice	what about the rest of the spins?	15:58
Viking-Ice	did you hear something from cwickert regarding lxde size ( FE )	15:58
adamw	oh, good point. no, I haven't, has anyone else?	15:59
adamw	notting thinks the DVD might squeeze under size on the next compose, so we're keeping an eye open for that	15:59
adamw	#info no word on LXDE spin being over size, we believe the DVD may make it under size on the next spin	16:00
* nirik has been working on Xfce. we are down to deciding about browsers.		16:00
adamw	#info nirik is working on Xfce spin size	16:00
nirik	I'll do something today with it, so we should be back under size tomorrow.	16:01
adamw	blocker review starting up right now over in #fedora-blocker-review, folks	16:01
adamw	so let's set the Patent Fuse	16:01
cwickert	??!	16:01
* cwickert never heard of it		16:01
cwickert	is it oversized?	16:01
adamw	cwickert: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=958427	16:01
adamw	oh, damn, i missed that it's assigned to bill :/	16:01
adamw	do you want to re-assign to yourself?	16:02
adamw	robatino: in future it'd be good to CC the maintainer of the spin on 'spin oversize' tickets	16:02
adamw	or assign it directly to them	16:02
nirik	perhaps those should be against livecd-spinname?	16:02
cwickert	I will take care of this	16:02
adamw	yeah, probably	16:02
adamw	thanks cwickert	16:02
adamw	good thing we caught it ;)	16:02
cwickert	however I want to say it sucks we are getting fatter and fatter with every releasee	16:03
cwickert	at some point we should consider removing esoteric input methods and fonts nobody needs	16:03
cwickert	anyway, too late for f19	16:03
nirik	yeah, I have no idea which of the i18n stuff is important.	16:03
nirik	:(	16:03
cwickert	none? :-P	16:04
nirik	well, I mean some of the dictionaries or fonts... are they required to make things work? or just an extra?	16:04
cwickert	#info LXDE will continue to target 700 MB, cwickert to work on slimming it down	16:04
robatino	i reassigned to LiveCD-LXDE	16:05
cwickert	thanks	16:05
cwickert	move on please	16:05
cwickert	and thanks for the heads-up, adamw	16:05
adamw	nirik: do ask the i18n folks. it sucks when people rip stuff out unnecessarily	16:05
adamw	cwickert: thank viking	16:05
cwickert	thanks Viking-Ice!	16:06
adamw	alrighty folks, everyone over to blocker review, thanks for coming!	16:06
adamw	#endmeeting	16:06

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.11.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!