QA/Meetings/20130527

Attendees

• adamw (101)
• tflink (32)
• kparal (26)
• j_dulaney (17)
• jreznik (8)
• nirik (5)
• zodbot (5)
• satellit_e (4)
• Martix (1)
• jskladan (1)
• Cerlyn (1)
• pingou (1)
• pschindl (1)

Agenda

• Previous meeting follow-up
• Fedora 19 Beta review/wrap-up
• Fedora 19 Final planning
• Taskbot
• Test Days
• Open floor

Previous meeting follow-up

• nirik to work on revising the 'desktop updates' test case to be more generic - not done yet
• martix to co-ordinate with Thermostat test day runners to make sure they'll be ready or postpone the event - this was done, and the event went off fine
• nirik to remove F20 from bugzilla for now - this was done, the few bugs opened were moved to Rawhide

Fedora 19 Beta review/wrap-up

• 19 Beta RC4 will be released as Beta tomorrow
• kparal will produce stats on contributors to testing
• Common_F19_bugs needs updating and we want to ensure the issue with PackageKit permissions and a note on the current state of initial-setup make the release notes

Fedora 19 Final planning

• Final TC1 scheduled for 2013-06-04
• Final freeze scheduled for 2013-06-18
• Final release criteria need to be revised into the new format
• We should complete the Final tests on Beta to identify any current blockers ahead of time

Taskbot

• Taskbot is tflink's new idea for automated testing
• jreznik noted that this should be synchronized with the Fedora revamp proposal and development resources may be available in relation to that
• Some discussion of the best way to structure taskbot design and the work of writing it to be open to contribution and to achieve practical results as soon as possible
• Code is at http://taskbot.tirfa.net for now

Test Days

• Test_Day:2013-05-21_AnacondaNewUI_Followup went ahead well and produced some useful results and some test cases we may want to adopt into the validation matrices
• Test_Day:2013-05-23_Thermostat went ahead and produced useful results, though mostly the development team was involved
• Test_Day:2013-05-28_Virtualization looked to be all ready
• Test_Day:2013-05-30_Spice page skeleton was present but test cases missing

Open floor

• Flock session submission deadline is 2013-05-31, so if you have ideas for sessions, please submit them

Action items

• adamw and anyone else to work on updating Common_F19_bugs
• adamw to talk to rbergeron and make sure packagekit/policykit issue makes it into the beta release notes
• adamw to complete 'new model' criteria revision by converting the final criteria
• tflink to update the iscsi test case for newUI
• tflink to schedule first blocker review meeting for this week
• adamw to look at extracting some test cases from Test_Day:2013-05-21_AnacondaNewUI_Followup for use as optional test cases (or even enforceable partitioning test cases) for the validation matrices
• martix to ensure spice test day is ready on time
• satellit_e to work on some test cases for SoaS

IRC Log

adamw	#startmeeting Fedora QA meeting	15:02
zodbot	Meeting started Mon May 27 15:02:01 2013 UTC. The chair is adamw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.	15:02
zodbot	Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.	15:02
adamw	#meetingname fedora-qa	15:02
zodbot	The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa'	15:02
adamw	#topic roll call	15:02
adamw	morning folks! how is everyone?	15:02
* j_dulaney slumps in, all tired		15:02
* satellit_e listening		15:02
* j_dulaney pulled an all night hacking run		15:02
* jreznik is partially here from bed - sick today :(		15:03
pingou	take care jreznik	15:03
* Cerlyn watches		15:04
* jskladan tips his hat		15:04
* j_dulaney twitches		15:04
* kparal joins		15:04
* adamw sets up a coffee iv for j_dulaney		15:05
* j_dulaney gets high from the caffeine		15:06
adamw	no tflink in the house?	15:07
* pschindl is here		15:07
j_dulaney	Holiday in the US	15:07
j_dulaney	Memorial Day	15:07
adamw	pfeh	15:08
adamw	.fire tflink	15:08
zodbot	adamw fires tflink	15:08
adamw	#chair kparal	15:08
zodbot	Current chairs: adamw kparal	15:08
adamw	#topic Previous meeting follow-up	15:08
adamw	"nirik to work on revising the 'desktop updates' test case to be more generic" - did you get anywhere on that, nirik?	15:09
nirik	nope. :)	15:09
nirik	will try this week.	15:09
adamw	alrighty.	15:10
adamw	#info "nirik to work on revising the 'desktop updates' test case to be more generic" - not done yet, nirik will try to work on it this week	15:11
adamw	#info "martix to co-ordinate with Thermostat test day runners to make sure they'll be ready or postpone the event" - martix checked in, and they were ready in time	15:11
adamw	"nirik to remove F20 from bugzilla for now" - you again, nirik	15:11
nirik	done.	15:12
nirik	nuked. wiped.	15:12
nirik	I moved all 10 bugs in it to rawhide.	15:12
adamw	thanks.	15:13
adamw	#info "nirik to remove F20 from bugzilla for now" - done, nuked, wiped, bugs moved to rawhide	15:13
adamw	#topic Fedora 19 Beta review/wrap-up	15:13
adamw	so, in case anyone missed it, we approved F19 Beta RC4 at go/no-go on thursday, it will be released tomorrow	15:14
adamw	big thanks to everyone for validation testing	15:14
j_dulaney	And there was much rejoicing	15:14
kparal	I'll create some contributors stats, hopefully this week	15:14
adamw	#info 19 Beta RC4 will be released as Beta tomorrow	15:14
adamw	#info kparal will produce stats on contributors to testing	15:14
adamw	the couple of things I have noted down are that we need to update https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common_F19_bugs and make sure the release notes cover the PackageKit/PolicyKit thing and maybe initial-setup	15:15
adamw	anyone have anything else we need to do as part of beta wrap-up?	15:15
tflink	this isn't so much wrap up for beta as prep for final but the iscsi test case needs some editing to work with newui	15:17
kparal	I couldn't test the UEFI grub fix today, our mirrors were dead	15:17
tflink	and there's a final prep section - should have waited 5 minutes	15:18
adamw	tflink: :)	15:18
adamw	kparal: ah, was wondering about that, i can try if i can get past the exhaustion issue somehow :/	15:18
kparal	adamw: reflashing bios worked for us	15:18
adamw	this is my production desktop so i'm a bit reluctant to do that. anyhow	15:19
kparal	but the current uefi hw is really crap	15:19
adamw	oh, while we're on the topic - if you can still flash yours, pjones is interested in what happens if you flash your firmware and then do nothing but install fedora over and over till it breaks	15:19
adamw	if it really breaks after 10 tries, something's very wrong somewhere, he says	15:19
kparal	adamw: I guess it will be around 15-20. I can definitely try it once our mirrors are back online	15:20
adamw	ok	15:20
adamw	he says the nvram ought to have space for hundreds or thousands of install attempts	15:20
adamw	it should only really get filled up by stuff like coredumps	15:20
tflink	there's that s-word :)	15:20
adamw	so if it gets filled up by a few install attempts, either there's something wonky kernel-side or you have a really bad firmware	15:20
j_dulaney	tflink: Quiet!	15:21
kparal	that depends. we did a 10 f19 installations, everything was fine. then we installed f18, upgraded, and the game was over	15:21
kparal	*10x f19 installations	15:21
kparal	damn, you get the meaning, ten installations :)	15:21
kparal	but I think it was because f18 by default still uses coredump-to-nvram approach	15:22
kparal	so it filled up	15:22
adamw	kparal: right, that's why he wants you to just to f19 install attempts, as coredump storing is currently disabled so it shouldn't affect things	15:22
adamw	but we're taking up meeting time here :)	15:23
adamw	#action adamw and anyone else to work on updating https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common_F19_bugs	15:23
adamw	#action adamw to talk to rbergeron and make sure packagekit/policykit issue makes it into the beta release notes	15:23
adamw	if anyone wants to help out with commonbugs, that'd be great: see http://bit.ly/fedora-commonbugs-proposed for the list of bugs that may need to be added to the page	15:24
adamw	#topic Fedora 19 Final planning	15:25
adamw	so i had a couple of things noted down here	15:25
adamw	#action adamw to complete 'new model' criteria revision by converting the final criteria	15:26
adamw	#info Final TC1 scheduled for June 4th (2013-06-04)	15:26
adamw	#info final freeze scheduled for 2013-06-18	15:27
tflink	the iscsi installation test case needs updating for newui	15:27
adamw	what else do we need to get ready for final?	15:27
adamw	roger	15:27
adamw	there's probably a few others too...i meant to do a comprehensive sweep through them between 19 and 20	15:27
adamw	#action tflink to update the iscsi test case for newUI	15:28
tflink	meant or want?	15:28
adamw	whichever you prefer	15:29
adamw	anyone have anything else to suggest?	15:29
tflink	I assume you meant between 18 and 19, but them's details	15:29
adamw	no, i meant 19 and 20	15:31
adamw	but possibly 'mean' not 'meant;	15:31
adamw	nothing else for 19 final prep?	15:34
adamw	one note, then: we should probably cover the 'final' tests on beta and file blocker bugs for anything that fails	15:35
adamw	help give us early warning of any final blockers	15:35
* kparal and vbocek have been already working on that		15:36
tflink	and we might want to start blocker review meetings this week - the list was already pretty long when I last looked at it	15:36
kparal	adamw: I just though we should fill in the empty test cases using Beta RC4 but wait for Final TC1	15:37
kparal	*shouldn't	15:37
adamw	kparal: it's fine to add them to the matrix, in fact it helps get a quick overview of the status	15:37
adamw	thanks for working on it already	15:37
adamw	tflink: that's a point	15:37
kparal	at least for Desktop the packages changed a lot, since we've been unfrozen	15:37
adamw	#action tflink to schedule first blocker review meeting for this week	15:38
adamw	alright, we're running low on time so moving on	15:38
adamw	#topic Taskbot	15:38
adamw	#info http://tirfa.com/an-initial-idea-for-taskbot.html is Tim's idea for revising our approach to automated testing (and rebuilding autoqa)	15:39
adamw	really just wanted to point it up and maybe have a quick q&a for anyone with questions :)	15:39
jreznik	for taskbot - it would be great to coordinate with fedora revamp initiative - seems like a good fit	15:40
tflink	jreznik: yeah, we've already been pinged about that	15:40
kparal	tflink: so, the idea is to replace autotest, keep a half of the autoqa library. what about resultsdb?	15:40
tflink	kparal: not 100% sure yet - need to talk to josef about it	15:41
kparal	ok	15:41
tflink	I didn't use it in the proof of concept for 2 reasons	15:41
kparal	I like the architecture, at least in some points it will be a definite improvement	15:41
tflink	1 - I would rather everything use json over restful interfaces instead of xmlrpc	15:41
jreznik	tflink: I'm aware of that and the whole revamp concept is all about automatic qa + processes around it	15:41
kparal	if we can implement it	15:41
tflink	2 - I wanted to play with angular for the frontend instead of templating in the app	15:42
tflink	yeah, human resources are going to be a bit of an issue, as always	15:43
kparal	we can discuss the technical details in qa-devel. but what about some other details, like manpower. do you have some idea how many people we would need to work on it?	15:44
adamw	and will the work be set up such that it's easy for people to contribute, or will that be difficult?	15:44
tflink	depends on what we want done and how quickly	15:44
* j_dulaney is +1 public git repo		15:45
tflink	it is all public	15:45
kparal	the contribution should be easier	15:45
tflink	than it is? yes	15:45
kparal	no need to request patches approval	15:45
tflink	I'd like to have code reviews for all core changes	15:46
j_dulaney	+1 code reviews	15:46
kparal	sure, I meant for third-party tests	15:46
tflink	the task maintainers would be responsible for their own tests, though	15:46
tflink	given our experience with autoqa, I assume that we're going to be hard pressed to find contributers to taskbot itself	15:47
adamw	for third party tests great, but I meant the work of the actual conversion to taskbot	15:47
jreznik	do you talk about contributions to the system or test cases? we would definitely need contributions from devels, mitr would like to sell it in the way - contribute test case and there would be smaller chance someone will break your stuff without knowing it (and that's the main idea behind revamp)	15:47
tflink	jreznik: my initial target for taskbot is going to be no external tests	15:48
tflink	once the core is solid, we can start talking about external tests	15:48
j_dulaney	tflink: Where can I start poking?	15:48
kparal	I agree we will hardly find someone willing to contribute to the system core. for third-party tests I assume there should be enough interest	15:48
tflink	my fear is that if we try to do everything right off the bat, this is going to implode	15:48
tflink	j_dulaney: http://taskbot.tirfa.net for now	15:49
tflink	it's like supporting arm - I'm planning on it and it's a requirement but the initial target is x86 to keep things kind of simpler	15:49
j_dulaney	tflink: Aye	15:49
j_dulaney	Indeed	15:49
jreznik	tflink: for the revamp - it's #1 feature we would like to have but I can image less gigantic first step (so the initial version with at least some integration testing prepared by QA)... just keep it in mind we would need such infrastructure	15:50
adamw	j_dulaney: it'll move to https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-qa/ when it grows up I guess	15:50
tflink	adamw: no, it won't - it'll be in a separate git repo and tracker	15:50
adamw	ah okay	15:50
tflink	jreznik: yeah, I'm still trying to figure out some of this - I'm not 100% sure what we're going to need for infra, if anything	15:51
tflink	I was mostly interested in figuring out - a) is there interest in the idea? b) how soon do we want to go forward with this	15:51
tflink	I'm not dumb/naive enough to assume that I've thought of everything, so useful input would be appreciated	15:52
adamw	cool	15:52
adamw	let's move on for now so we can wrap up in time	15:53
tflink	one question is about the next steps - do we migrate the fedora cloud or replace autoqa-stg?	15:53
tflink	but that can be on qa-devel@	15:53
adamw	further discussion on #fedora-qa, tirfa.com, qa-devel@	15:53
jreznik	tflink: I feel support especially from fesco, a lot of people stand behind it at fudcon but yeah, there's no clear direction now and it's definitely a good topic to talk abou before flock	15:54
tflink	jreznik: one motivation for talking about it now was so that I can do a talk/hackfest @ flock	15:54
adamw	right, that's an obvious thing we should do	15:54
tflink	since the deadline for proposals is in a couple days	15:55
adamw	#topic Test Days	15:55
adamw	#info https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2013-05-21_AnacondaNewUI_Followup went off fine and produced some useful tests, including things we weren't covering in validation	15:55
jreznik	tflink: "before flock" - it should be prepared by flock to be able to move with it there	15:55
* jreznik will contact mitr about it		15:55
adamw	#action adamw to look at extracting some test cases from Test_Day:2013-05-21_AnacondaNewUI_Followup for use as optional test cases (or even enforceable partitioning test cases) for the validation matrices	15:56
adamw	#info https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2013-05-23_Thermostat also went off well and looked like it was being useful for the developers	15:56
kparal	although attended mainly by the developers themselves :)	15:56
adamw	as long as they had fun :)	15:57
adamw	#info https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2013-05-28_Virtualization looks to be ready	15:57
adamw	are you doing a live image for that one?	15:57
kparal	already provided	15:58
adamw	great	15:58
adamw	#info live image has been provided for virt test day	15:58
adamw	#info https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2013-05-30_Spice is being worked on, but test cases not yet present	15:58
adamw	Martix: are you in contact with the spice folks?	15:59
Martix	adamw: I looked on test day page and I am going contact them	16:00
adamw	great	16:00
adamw	#action martix to ensure spice test day is ready on time	16:00
adamw	#topic Open floor	16:01
adamw	just wanted to say again great job everyone getting beta out on time	16:01
adamw	thanks for that	16:01
adamw	any other business for open floor?	16:01
satellit_e	any test cases for sugar needed? or is it too specialized	16:02
j_dulaney	satellit_e: Test cases are always appreciated	16:03
adamw	it would be nice if it had its own, sure	16:03
adamw	we list the desktop cases for it but they're not entirely appropriate	16:03
adamw	it might be good to have test cases for the most important elements	16:04
satellit_e	let me draw up some simple tests	16:04
* satellit_e ideas for tests		16:04
adamw	great, thanks	16:05
adamw	#action satellit_e to work on some test cases for SoaS	16:05
adamw	anything else, folks?	16:05
j_dulaney	+1 to getting ready for flock; proposals close in a couple of days	16:05
adamw	yup, good point	16:06
* j_dulaney has two proposed talks		16:06
adamw	#info Flock session submission deadline is 2013-05-31, so if you have ideas for sessions, please submit them	16:07
adamw	i've got one in and mean to submit another for taking another look at the release criteria	16:07
adamw	which will just be me, on my own, wondering why no-one else spends all their time thinking about tweaking release criteria	16:07
j_dulaney	adamw: You're too good at it! You drive away the compitition	16:08
adamw	heh	16:08
adamw	alrighty, thanks for coming everyone	16:08
* adamw sets the Patent Fuse for three chickens and a monkey		16:09
adamw	#endmeeting	16:10

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