ReleaseEngineering/Meetings/2007-oct-29

Fedora Release Engineering Meeting :: Monday 2007-10-29

IRC Transcript

-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering - Fedora 8 release meeting		13:06
* wwoods on the scene.. like a test machine		13:07
jeremy	poelcat: ping	13:07
f13	wwoods: how do we stand qa wise?	13:07
poelcat	present	13:07
* poelcat just found a bug in slocate		13:07
poelcat	it crashes	13:07
poelcat	jeremy: pong	13:08
f13	(I'm going to try and make this quick since I"m fighting compose issues)	13:08
jwb	my limited QA is pretty good	13:09
jwb	but i rarely test installs	13:09
jeremy	as far as NetworkManager -- I talked with dcbw about half an hour ago, and the conclusion we came to is that unless we find something horrific, sticking with the current NM seems like the best approach.  he's working on getting gconf migration working, but that kind of scares me	13:09
wwoods	f13: stuff is mostly solid	13:09
jeremy	too many cases to easily test, if something goes wrong, it's likely to be a crasher, etc	13:09
warren	jeremy, without gconf migration, what happens to a user upgrading from FC6 or F7?	13:09
wwoods	other than the fact that we don't have an installable tree ATM	13:10
jeremy	warren: they have to enter the settings for their network again.  which isn't great, but I'd rather that than it crashes on them	13:10
notting	of course, if on install they have to enter their settings again, that sort of defeats the point of adding migration later	13:10
jeremy	notting: I'm not following you....	13:11
notting	jeremy: well, if you're going to make everyone who uses NM re-enter their config, adding migration of their old settings later isn't really going to help anyone	13:11
jeremy	notting: helps release skippers!   also anyone that respins with updates	13:12
jeremy	notting: honestly, if we'd had it two weeks I'd be jumping all over it.  but it's going to be a not small amount of code with lots of string munging written in C. sooo :)	13:13
jwb	ew	13:13
wwoods	so yeah, scanning the blocker list real quick-like	13:15
wwoods	so there's this standing bug where Turkish installs die	13:15
jeremy	wwoods: I did a turkish install successfully yesterday	13:15
wwoods	which totally sucks but I don't think we can fix that in time... unless	13:16
wwoods	unless jeremy pulls a miracle out of his ass, I was about to say	13:16
wwoods	et voila	13:16
warren	It seems that the change in -37 made a HUGE difference for my iwl3945 on x86_64	13:16
wwoods	if I'm reading it right, we might have a fix for the AGP boot blocker	13:16
jeremy	wwoods: yep, there's a patch there.  the other two kernel bugs have patches too... I was going to track down davej/cebbert after this	13:17
* davej is invoked		13:17
wwoods	SELinux stuff seems mostly sorted, except the ps3 thing that magically appeared today	13:17
jeremy	wwoods: crontab is still broken by selinux	13:17
jwb	my biggest REGRESSION that i've found is the backlight stuff.  but like i said last week, it's not a blocker	13:17
warren	jwb, bug #?	13:17
jeremy	wwoods: trying to track down dwalsh (he's not in the office today), and also getting other people to check	13:18
jwb	warren, no bug yet.  i'm actually trying things myself	13:18
notting	i'm attempting to fix ppp. *sigh*	13:18
wwoods	jeremy: really? I thought that was fixed. bah and humbug	13:18
jwb	warren, like building a kernel without jeremy's thinkpad patch to see if it magically fixes it	13:18
poelcat	crontab doesn't work	13:18
jeremy	notting: *sigh*	13:18
notting	jeremy: hey, it's beem broken since the end of june.	13:18
wwoods	oh, and are we gonna build crc32c into the kernel so iSCSI works?	13:18
jeremy	wwoods: I agree :/	13:18
jeremy	wwoods: that's one of the kernel bugs	13:18
davej	I'll build it in, jcm seems to be on the hook for fixing it in mod-init-tools later.	13:19
wwoods	it's a grotesque hack but as long as we have a plan for getting rid of it, I'm OK	13:20
jeremy	the blocker list is looking shockingly good right now	13:21
wwoods	is there a plan for the qla2xxx thing?	13:21
wwoods	jeremy: yeah, I think a couple of those are actually closeable too	13:21
wwoods	gnokii, f'rinstance, and the Turkish installs	13:21
jeremy	wwoods: we have the firmware packaged now.  not really handled properly by anaconda, but it was way too late hwen we found out about it to be able to fix it sanely :(	13:22
jeremy	wwoods: yeah, a number are in MODIFIED because I figure me investigating, fixing and closing is a tad too much ;-)	13:22
wwoods	lemme know which ones you think can be retested / closed and I'll do so	13:22
wwoods	and/or throw them into NEEDINFO reporter	13:23
jeremy	wwoods: ones in MODIFIED should be pretty testable.  I don't think I fixed anything that wasn't trivially testable	13:23
wwoods	gotcha	13:23
wwoods	I'll check 'em out. so crontab/selinux sounds like it's the big thing we're waiting for	13:24
wwoods	(and fixing rawhide to have images again)	13:24
jeremy	yep	13:24
jeremy	so, fingers crossed, tomorrow's rawhide should hopefully be able to be it	13:24
wwoods	a couple of people are pissy about firewire not working, but.. not a regression from F7, small number of users, planned fix for F9 (maybe an F8 update), and available workarounds	13:25
wwoods	err, amend that: firewire not working with iso devices (cameras etc) and OHCI 1.0 controllers	13:25
jeremy	*nod*	13:25
wwoods	rahul added the NV nosuspend change to the common bug page - we might want a whitelist or something in the future	13:26
wwoods	but I assume we can push out future pm-utils updates to handle something along those lines once we figure out what works	13:26
jeremy	well, I'd rather that we fix the driver and then just pull the hack rather than trying to do a whitelist ;)	13:26
wwoods	one thing that worries me is longstanding bugs with the updates to libata etc	13:26
wwoods	people who were not updating to F7 because it didn't work on their hardware	13:27
wwoods	if it still doesn't work with F8, they're kind of in trouble	13:27
warren	how widespread?	13:27
warren	wwoods, do we have any such boxes, or did somebody test it?	13:28
wwoods	spotty - mostly seems to affect subsets of people with old hardware + wonky drives	13:28
jeremy	wwoods: I suspect there's not much we can do there	13:28
wwoods	or things we don't have hardware to test (intel dmraid)	13:28
jeremy	peter is looking at the dmraid one now	13:28
wwoods	I agree that there's not much we can do for the old hardware case but dmraid worries me more	13:28
jeremy	(he wasn't able to reproduce when using intel dmraid last week, but is trying again)	13:29
warren	dmraid bug #?	13:29
wwoods	alan pointed out some raid+libata bugs but those turned out to mostly be mdraid	13:29
jeremy	warren: 349161	13:29
wwoods	warren: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=349161 is the blocker one	13:29
wwoods	there's some other similar things in need of investigation at the bottom of http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Bugs/F8Common	13:30
wwoods	oh, if there's anything on that page that's fixed now, lemme know	13:30
* wwoods eyes "NetworkManager Segmentation Faults" and "kernel does not boot on SK8V motherboards" suspiciously		13:31
notting	isn't sk8v the same agp bug?	13:32
jeremy	the former I haven't seen in a long while... the latter is the agp kernel bug and davej says he's going to add the patch	13:32
wwoods	notting: yes	13:32
wwoods	oh, I've been testing yum upgrades from f8t3 to rawhide (we said we'd provide help/docs for people to do that) and adding stuff to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Tools/yum/YumUpgradeFaq	13:33
wwoods	so if anyone asks, that's where the information lives	13:33
* wwoods done		13:34
davej	notting: not entirely sure the sk8v bug is the same cause as the agp bug.	13:34
warren	Switching from wired to wireless nm-applet crash was fixed?	13:35
jeremy	wwoods: I'll take a look at the raid/lvm bugs at the bottom of F8Common as soon as I get a livecd-tools with all the currnet configs built	13:35
jeremy	warren: I can't reproduce a crash trying with today's rawhide	13:35
jeremy	I switched back and forth and back and forth and ...	13:35
wwoods	warren: should be fixed, I'll be testing it in a sec	13:35
wwoods	(waiting for powerbook to reboot)	13:36
jeremy	anyway, do we have anything else?  or just keep trucking and fixing stuff	13:37
jeremy	and when do we want to reconvene?	13:37
warren	same time tomorrow?	13:38
notting	going to conflict with board .maybe slightly later?	13:38
* jeremy is flexible...		13:40
wwoods	oh hey, I have a question / discussion topic: should we remove old test release torrents after a certain time?	13:43
wwoods	getting tired of people installing f8t3 and reporting bugs against that	13:43
jeremy	we should do some torrent cleanup after the release	13:43
wwoods	both bugs in outdated packages and filing them against the version 'f8test3'	13:43
jeremy	although also, we're going to start hopefully having people hit 'torrent.fedoraproject.org' directly a little less too	13:43
* mmcgrath agrees, possibly looking at a redesign of the torrent page would be good and finding a good home for the videos.		13:44
jeremy	mmcgrath: fedoraproject.org/Videos with nicer links ?	13:44
jeremy	but neither here nor there	13:44
mmcgrath	<nod> something.	13:45
warren	I do not like green eggs and ham.	13:45
notting	would you like them with a mouse?	13:46
wwoods	something to discuss in-depth at a later time, but yeah. really tired of people installing 4-week-old bits and telling me they're broken.	13:46
wwoods	well, yeah dude, we spent the past 4 weeks fixing those bits. except it's harder for you to get those bits. anyway. I'm flexible for meeting time tomorrow	13:46
warren	Meeting tomorrow at undisclosed time, at undisclosed location	13:47
jeremy	how about 2?	13:47
warren	sounds good	13:47
notting	wfm	13:47
jeremy	2 pm tomorrow it is	13:48
poelcat	jeremy: what is ck-list ?	13:50
jeremy	poelcat: lists sessions according to console kit	13:51
poelcat	jeremy: and why severity "low" ? sound is completely broken	13:51
poelcat	jeremy: i removed it!	13:51
poelcat	i don't want it :)	13:51
jeremy	if you remove console kit, then you don't get console permissions!	13:51
jeremy	duh!	13:51
wwoods	we ignore priority and severity on bug reports	13:52
wwoods	set them to whatever the fuck you like	13:52
poelcat	i thought consolekit was all about changing users?	13:52
poelcat	i'm the only user; I don't want it :)	13:52
jeremy	no, it's not	13:52
f13	oh wow, forgot this was still going :/	13:52
f13	poelcat: there is root.	13:53
f13	poelcat: that's another user.	13:53
* jeremy takes away poelcat's blocker filing privileges ;-)		13:53
poelcat	hey what about crontab ?	13:54
wwoods	you wilfully removed random system packages that you didn't understand, and then filed a bug when stuff broke, and *then* added that bug to the blocker list?	13:54
wwoods	you now owe me a beer	13:54
jeremy	poelcat: crontab is still being looked into	13:54
poelcat	wwoods: or you owe me a better page explaiing why I need consolekit	13:54
poelcat	i only disabled the service :)	13:55
wwoods	no	13:55
wwoods	heh	13:55
f13	ConsoleKit is a system daemon for tracking what users are logged	13:55
f13	into the system and how they interact with the computer (e.g.	13:55
f13	which keyboard and mouse they use).	13:55
poelcat	f13: okay :) it was advertised in our last release as a snazzy way to change users on the fly	13:57
poelcat	i thought that was its only benefit	13:57
f13	no no, it just /supports/ the bits that allow you to choose users	13:57
wwoods	it handles the backend bits, like changing the owner of the console devices (sound, keyboard, mouse, etc) to the person who is currently logged in	13:57
f13	without ConcoleKit you can't do fast user switching, but it doesn't do the switching for you thats fast user switcher.	13:57
f13	ConsoleKit and PolicyKit just take care of assigning ACLs where they need to be for access to hardware.	13:57
jeremy	poelcat: that's fast-user-switching.  not consolekit	13:57
* poelcat now understands why yum remove ConsoleKit looked so ugly (I didn't do it btw)		13:57
* poelcat stops being confused :)		13:58
poelcat	so.... is updatedb failing a blocker?	13:58
* poelcat has caused enough trouble today... why not		14:00
mmcgrath	poelcat: is it selinux?	14:00
jeremy	poelcat: updatedb just worked for me	14:00
poelcat	jeremy: does it need ConsoleKit too? ;-)	14:00
poelcat	i'm trying to run a slimmed down system here... 1G of ram isn't what it used to be :)	14:01
* wwoods running on 640MB		14:04
jeremy	poelcat: what's the bug #?	14:09
poelcat	jeremy: bug 357061	14:14
jeremy	poelcat: based on the strace, looks like something specific in your home directory (since that's where it's scanning at that point)	14:21
f13	hrm.	14:45

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