BugZappers/Meetings/Minutes-2008-Dec-16

Bug Triage Meeting :: 2008-12-16

Attendees

• jds2001
• John5342
• quantumburnz
• poelcat
• stickster
• tk009

Follow-up To Last Week

• jds2001 to update BugZappers/HouseKeeping/Trackers
• poelcat filed ticket with Red Hat Engineering operationst to auto close Fedora 8 bugs at EOL date
  • BugZappers/HouseKeeping/Fedora10#Fedora_8_EOL_Closure
• quantumburnz updating PackageMaintainers/Policy to reflect more of triager's tasks

FUDCon F11 Ideas

• go through triage examples
• work on tooling for metrics

Next Meeting

• Tuesday, 2009-01-06 @ 15:00 UTC/10 AM EST

IRC Transcript

John5342	hi	07:01
quantumburnz	good mornin'	07:01
John5342	and afternoon	07:01
poelcat	quantumburnz: John5342 hi	07:01
poelcat	jds2001 tk009 ping	07:01
* jds2001 here		07:02
poelcat	howdy	07:03
jds2001	hey	07:03
poelcat	followups from last week...	07:03
poelcat	jds2001: BugZappers/HouseKeeping/Trackers	07:03
jds2001	doing it now :)	07:04
poelcat	that still counts :)	07:04
* jds2001 overslept this morning and was gonna do it this morning :)		07:04
John5342	tk009: hi	07:05
tk009	hello John	07:05
tk009	hello all	07:05
poelcat	tk009: hi	07:05
tk009	poelcat =)	07:06
poelcat	okay next task, i was going to file ticket with eng ops to auto close F8 bugs at the proper time	07:07
poelcat	BugZappers/HouseKeeping/Fedora10#Fedora_8_EOL_Closure	07:08
poelcat	essentially i opened a ticket that points to this URL	07:08
poelcat	so whatever we have here is what they will execute	07:08
poelcat	any final feedback on the plans/wording in that section?	07:09
jds2001	did part of it get cut off?	07:10
quantumburnz	looks a-ok to me	07:10
jds2001	What does the first sentence say?	07:11
tk009	looks cut off to e as well	07:11
tk009	me*	07:11
jds2001	for me it says "Bugs related to the components of the Fedora distribution"	07:11
John5342	does seem a little misleading having that box near the top	07:11
jds2001	as the first sentence with zero content	07:11
poelcat	hm	07:12
* poelcat looks above to section we did for GA		07:12
poelcat	oh, i know what that is	07:12
quantumburnz	i think it makes sense in context if you look at where it'll be used	07:12
quantumburnz	it's talking about fedora	07:12
poelcat	the table in on web page starts with *Fedora*:	07:13
jds2001	Oh, you're changing the product description!	07:14
* jds2001 looking at wrong section :)		07:14
John5342	am guessing that everyone is looking at top box but what we should really be looking at is the next one.	07:14
quantumburnz	haha, that's what I was asking poelcat about last week and why we added the link in there. =)	07:14
jds2001	OK, yeah - looks great :)	07:15
tk009	the bottom one looks fine	07:15
poelcat	next followup was quantumburnz was going to take a shot at PackageMaintainers/Policy	07:15
quantumburnz	yes -- i have a few things to show but i haven't put them up on that page	07:16
quantumburnz	i'll paste them here, it's not a lot but hopefully it's a start	07:17
quantumburnz	BugZappers' Role	07:17
poelcat	quantumburnz: better yet, put them in a wiki page	07:17
poelcat	under your namespace	07:17
quantumburnz	oh, ok, i'll do that real fast, come back to me then	07:18
quantumburnz	sigh... how do I go about doing that?	07:19
* stickster here, just a bit late		07:19
poelcat	quantumburnz: or a pastebin temporarily.. http://fpaste.org/	07:21
poelcat	quantumburnz: let us know when you're ready	07:21
poelcat	next topic was "what to do at fudcon"	07:21
jds2001	anyone have any suggestions?	07:22
poelcat	has anyone had any thoughts since last week?	07:22
jds2001	last two times we had barcamp sessions	07:23
poelcat	if i recall we were heading in the direction of wondering if it is the right venue	07:23
jds2001	Not sure if that's the right thing to do again.	07:23
jds2001	yeah	07:23
John5342	one thing that gets people immediately involved is going through a few examples.	07:23
poelcat	John5342: excellent point	07:23
jds2001	did that last time in Boston :)	07:23
poelcat	i wonder about just projecting a laptop on a big screen	07:24
poelcat	during the hackfest	07:24
poelcat	and doing a few that way	07:24
poelcat	kind of like how a crowd built around looking at testopia	07:24
stickster	I think we'll have projectors in many of the rooms	07:24
stickster	Should be easy to do that	07:24
poelcat	stickster: will there be a "grand hall" like last time?	07:24
poelcat	that was were we'd get the most exposure	07:25
stickster	I believe one of the rooms is a ~120 seat hall, and the rest seat between 30 and 60	07:25
jeremy	stickster: which rooms do we have?	07:25
stickster	jeremy: A ton of rooms in E51, the Tang Center	07:25
John5342	it just demonstrates how simple it is to do. plus you get a few done at the same time	07:25
stickster	Third floor, nice space.	07:25
stickster	I believe it's where the GNOME Summit was held.	07:25
jeremy	stickster: I know e51 and its rooms quite well :)	07:26
poelcat	maybe if we have some VIPs like stickster and jeremy that would help too ;-)	07:26
* stickster apologizes for going OT in QA meeting.		07:26
* quantumburnz interjects with the BugZappers' Role Policy: http://fpaste.org/paste/583		07:26
stickster	poelcat: I would like to participate!	07:26
poelcat	quantumburnz: okay, we'll do that next	07:27
poelcat	any other thoughts/ideas/criticisms/public shaming/etc about FUDCon?	07:28
poelcat	(as it relates to bug triage) :)	07:28
jds2001	dont think so....	07:30
stickster	Is there anything we can do at FUDCon in the way of tooling that we can't do "virtually"?	07:30
poelcat	stickster: good question	07:30
poelcat	maybe someone with good xmlrpc/bugzilla foo that could help w/ weekly stats, etc.	07:31
poelcat	i know comphappy is working on something currently	07:31
jds2001	dmalcolm will be there :)	07:32
tk009	are you talking about stats for bug triage?	07:33
poelcat	tk009: yes	07:33
poelcat	easier ways to do BugZappers/F10Triagers	07:35
poelcat	and other types of encouraging feedback	07:35
John5342	noticed in notes on page that we still need tk009 bugzilla id	07:36
tk009	I'm not sure what it is	07:37
poelcat	yes, we probably need to setup the triagers table a little differently to capture that	07:37
jds2001	your email address for bugzilla :)	07:37
poelcat	well, it should be the same email address you use for FAS too	07:37
tk009	john.brown009@gmail.com	07:37
tk009	I figured we needed another john =)	07:38
jds2001	:)	07:38
John5342	:)	07:39
poelcat	fantastic	07:39
stickster	poelcat: With the new python-fedora stuff that Luke has started to build, we might be able to tie BZ stats in to an auto-generated report on the wiki.	07:39
poelcat	stickster: nice! i'll make a note to talk to him	07:39
stickster	I'm told that the Infrastructure guys may be upgrading our MediaWiki software in the foreseeable future to a version that offers a much richer writing API	07:40
* stickster may be exaggerating, but ianweller seemed to be very excited about it.		07:40
jds2001	that would be cool :)	07:40
poelcat	back to http://fpaste.org/paste/583	07:41
poelcat	quantumburnz: thanks for putting these together	07:42
quantumburnz	no problem, it's not much but hopefully it's along the lines of what we were looking for.	07:42
poelcat	are there any things we should change before adding them in?	07:42
poelcat	i might suggest softening a couple of the words: "Control" and "Rebase"	07:45
poelcat	in the context of the maintainers policy i think we want to convey	07:45
poelcat	that we help to keep bugzilla running smoothly or containing relevant bugs	07:46
poelcat	something like that?	07:46
jds2001	yeah	07:47
quantumburnz	So maybe instead of using the word Rebase, change it to 'Assist with all rawhide Bugzilla...'	07:49
quantumburnz	i see what you're saying, just trying to think how to word it	07:49
jds2001	Soemthing more like 'ensuring that the rawhide version is populated with relevant bugs'	07:49
poelcat	yeah, we also want to give enough information or link to it so that when changes happen	07:50
poelcat	to their bugs they aren't surprised	07:50
quantumburnz	right	07:50
poelcat	... which usually happens anyway	07:50
quantumburnz	but they have the link to the bug flow page in the first bullet so hopefully that should help	07:51
poelcat	but then we at least have a place to point to	07:51
mcepl	here	07:52
mcepl	sorry, I have just came -- what's on the agenda now	07:52
mcepl	?	07:52
jds2001	mcepl: discussing maintainer policy	07:52
quantumburnz	mcepl: http://fpaste.org/paste/583	07:52
jds2001	i.e. what to put on the maintainers policy page.	07:52
poelcat	mcepl: BugZappers/Meetings/Minutes-2008-Dec-09#Policies	07:53
quantumburnz	what suggestions do we have for the second bullet to replace 'Control'?	07:53
John5342	Manage?	07:54
poelcat	guide, enable, facilitate ?	07:54
poelcat	a word that implies we are here to help vs. boss things around :)	07:54
quantumburnz	I like guide. I threw that in.	07:54
John5342	probably not guide because guide implies we are helping somone else to do it.	07:55
quantumburnz	we should have used the interactive text editing program we used before so we could all edit this.	07:55
poelcat	:)	07:55
poelcat	good point	07:55
poelcat	quantumburnz: i think what you've got is good	07:55
poelcat	i suggest you add it to their policy	07:55
poelcat	and then we can ask for feedback	07:56
quantumburnz	poelcat: ok. John5342: how about facilitate or manage?	07:56
tk009	assist	07:56
quantumburnz	assist still implies we're helping someone do it	07:56
mcepl	well, I think the problem is that a) the first point needs to be hugely expanded, b) the rest is either automagical or not done by the triager newbies, so the audience of this document (if it is a bug triager newbie) doesn't care.	07:56
John5342	i think poelcat was right about not using manage.	07:57
mcepl	I don't care about exact words	07:57
quantumburnz	mcepl: it's to the package maintainers to let them know what we do and why their bugs change	07:57
mcepl	I had yet another "fight" about NEW v. ASSIGNED yesterday (with anaconda folks), and I think the thing which might be interesting is if we show them some real tangible help.	07:58
poelcat	we're about out of time	07:59
mcepl	the last three points are IMHO just "do housekeeping" and I don't think we neeed to ellaborate on it too much	07:59
poelcat	there will be no meeting for the next two weeks	07:59
mcepl	yeah, let's move to #fedora-qa	07:59
poelcat	unless someone else would like to lead it :)	07:59
mcepl	don't look at me :)	08:00
poelcat	are there any volunteers?	08:00
tk009	come, on someone =)	08:00
quantumburnz	will we have things to cover? it'll be tough for me to make it next week...	08:00
* John5342 would like to but doesnt have the experience and is gone for christmas		08:00
poelcat	okay. happy holidays everyone and we'll see you in 2009 :)	08:01
poelcat	thanks for all your help this year!	08:01
John5342	thanks. bye	08:02
mcepl	yup, Merry Christmas or whatever else you celebrate!!!	08:02
tk009	be well brothers, happy holidays	08:02
quantumburnz	happy holidays everyone!	08:04

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