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|- id="t19:00"
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:00:00] <jjmcd> Does anyone know how to do that IRC formatting thingie and can post the log?
! style="background-color: #407a40" |  jjmcd
|-
| style="color: #407a40" | <meeting><title>Fedora Docs Meeting</title>
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:00:19] Quit hpachas-PE has left this server ("Saliendo").
|| [[#t19:00|19:00]]  
|-
|- id="t19:01"
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:00:30] <jjmcd> oooh kayyy, I guess I'll learn
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jjmcd
|-
| style="color: #407a40" | Sparks won't be here and I don't have ops so you won't see the channel topic changing
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:00:44] <jjmcd> <meeting><title>Fedora Docs Meeting</title>
|| [[#t19:01|19:01]]  
|-
|- id="t19:01"
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:01:04] <jjmcd> Sparks won't be here and I don't have ops so you won't see the channel topic changing
| colspan="2" | -!- openpercept [n=openperc@unaffiliated/openpercept] has joined #fedora-meeting
|-
|| [[#t19:01|19:01]]
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:01:08] Join openpercept has joined this channel (n=openperc@unaffiliated/openpercept).
|- id="t19:01"
|-
! style="background-color: #407a40" |  jjmcd
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:01:22] <jjmcd> Looks like many of the perps are missing
| style="color: #407a40" | Looks like many of the perps are missing
|-
|| [[#t19:01|19:01]]  
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:01:43] * rudi is here
|- id="t19:01"
|-
| colspan="2" | * rudi is here
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:01:49] <jjmcd> Before we get started on the agenda, we had a RelEng meeting today, no real show stoppers
|| [[#t19:01|19:01]]
|-
|- id="t19:01"
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:02:10] * joat is lurking nearby
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jjmcd
|-
| style="color: #407a40" | Before we get started on the agenda, we had a RelEng meeting today, no real show stoppers
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:02:16] <jjmcd> I see a few of the usual suspects, but many are missing
|| [[#t19:01|19:01]]  
|-
|- id="t19:02"
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:02:17] <ianweller> oh look a meeting
| colspan="2" | * joat is lurking nearby
|-
|| [[#t19:02|19:02]]
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:02:19] * laubersm is here (mostly)
|- id="t19:02"
|-
! style="background-color: #42427e" | ianweller
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:02:29] <jjmcd> Good, laubersm you are on the agenda
| style="color: #42427e" | oh look a meeting
|-
|| [[#t19:02|19:02]]  
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:02:35] <laubersm> I am?
|- id="t19:02"
|-
! style="background-color: #407a40" |  jjmcd
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:02:54] <jjmcd> Anyway, rawhide builds are going slowly on account of the delta rpms, but so far no real show stoppers
| style="color: #407a40" | I see a few of the usual suspects, but many are missing
|-
|| [[#t19:02|19:02]]  
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:02:55] Join radsy has joined this channel (n=irc@nat/redhat/x-ada7def238096e41).
|- id="t19:02"
|-
| colspan="2" | * laubersm is here (mostly)
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:02:56] <laubersm> link?
|| [[#t19:02|19:02]]
|-
|- id="t19:02"
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:03:17] <jjmcd> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Thursday_Apr_23_2009_.28Wed_US_Time.29
! style="background-color: #407a40" |  jjmcd
|-
| style="color: #407a40" | Good, laubersm you are on the agenda
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:03:47] <jjmcd> There is an issue with logging on to updated systems they want us to make sure we catch on the common bugs page
|| [[#t19:02|19:02]]  
|-
|- id="t19:02"
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:04:20] <jjmcd> No other real news from RelEng ... on to f-r-n
! style="background-color: #818144" |  laubersm
|-
| style="color: #818144" | I am?
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:04:39] <jjmcd> Release notes went out Tuesday for preview
|| [[#t19:02|19:02]]  
|-
|- id="t19:02"
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:05:08] <jjmcd> I noticed an issue with Oriya language and laubersm apparently had some issue there too. Can you explain laubersm?
! style="background-color: #407a40" |  jjmcd
|-
| style="color: #407a40" | Anyway, rawhide builds are going slowly on account of the delta rpms, but so far no real show stoppers
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:05:33] <laubersm> The only problem I had was one that occured in another lang also
|| [[#t19:02|19:02]]
|-
|- id="t19:02"
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:05:48] <laubersm> it loks like something fuzzy being transalated or something left over from F10
| colspan="2" | -!- radsy [n=irc@nat/redhat/x-ada7def238096e41] has joined #fedora-meeting
|-
|| [[#t19:02|19:02]]
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:06:12] <laubersm> They were including an xref to another section that does not exist and was not in the english string
|- id="t19:02"
|-
! style="background-color: #818144" | laubersm
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:06:16] <jjmcd> OK, so not some tagging issue?
| style="color: #818144" | link?
|-
|| [[#t19:02|19:02]]  
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:06:34] <laubersm> it is tagging - but it does not hit an error until after a build.
|- id="t19:03"
|-
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jjmcd
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:06:42] <jjmcd> Ahhh, OK. I noticed that Oriya crashes yelp, but it also does that in F10
| style="color: #407a40" | [[Docs_Project_meetings#Thursday_Apr_23_2009_.28Wed_US_Time.29]]
|-
|| [[#t19:03|19:03]]  
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:07:03] <jjmcd> And there is a bug for yelp that sounds similar, but not specific to Oriya
|- id="t19:03"
|-
! style="background-color: #407a40" |  jjmcd
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:08:08] <jjmcd> So for preview at least, it looks like we are done with release notes. Any further on RNs?
| style="color: #407a40" | There is an issue with logging on to updated systems they want us to make sure we catch on the common bugs page
|-
|| [[#t19:03|19:03]]  
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:09:07] <jjmcd> OK, our next task is the preview announcement. They would like us to push the testing aspect a little harder.
|- id="t19:04"
|-
! style="background-color: #407a40" |  jjmcd
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:09:29] <jjmcd> There is a relatively long time between Pr and GA, so more time to test
| style="color: #407a40" | No other real news from RelEng ... on to f-r-n
|-
|| [[#t19:04|19:04]]  
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:09:49] <jjmcd> Anyone interested in picking up the announcement? Due Friday.
|- id="t19:04"
|-
! style="background-color: #407a40" |  jjmcd
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:10:30] <jjmcd> Don't everyone jump at once!
| style="color: #407a40" | Release notes went out Tuesday for preview
|-
|| [[#t19:04|19:04]]  
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:11:12] <jjmcd> Next thing on the schedule is pots for the guides, will all the guides have their pots for next week?
|- id="t19:05"
|-
! style="background-color: #407a40" |  jjmcd
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:11:34] <jjmcd> is anyone here?
| style="color: #407a40" | I noticed an issue with Oriya language and laubersm apparently had some issue there too.  Can you explain laubersm?
|-
|| [[#t19:05|19:05]]  
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:11:49] <jjmcd> ke4qqq: IG status?
|- id="t19:05"
|-
! style="background-color: #818144" | laubersm
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:12:30] <jjmcd> radsy: Security and SEL?
| style="color: #818144" | The only problem I had was one that occured in another lang also
|-
|| [[#t19:05|19:05]]  
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:12:55] <radsy> selinux guide is going to be ready for peer review very soon
|- id="t19:05"
|-
! style="background-color: #818144" |  laubersm
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:13:05] <radsy> in the next few days
| style="color: #818144" | it loks like something fuzzy being transalated or something left over from F10
|-
|| [[#t19:05|19:05]]  
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:13:40] <jjmcd> OK, so no pots next week I presume
|- id="t19:06"
|-
! style="background-color: #818144" | laubersm
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:13:53] <radsy> security-guide is still being discussed
| style="color: #818144" | They were including an xref to another section that does not exist and was not in the english string
|-
|| [[#t19:06|19:06]]  
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:13:58] <radsy> no
|- id="t19:06"
|-
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jjmcd
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:13:59] <rudi> jjmcd -- IG is already in translation
| style="color: #407a40" | OK, so not some tagging issue?
|-
|| [[#t19:06|19:06]]  
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:14:13] <jjmcd> rudi: excellent, thanks
|- id="t19:06"
|-
! style="background-color: #818144" |  laubersm
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:14:34] <jjmcd> danielsmw: User guide status?
| style="color: #818144" | it is tagging - but it does not hit an error until after a build.
|-
|| [[#t19:06|19:06]]  
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:15:05] <rudi> jjmcd - I'm about an hour away from completing the UG conversion to XML
|- id="t19:06"
|-
! style="background-color: #407a40" |  jjmcd
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:15:26] <jjmcd> Ahhh, excellent. Are you doing that manually or using a tool?
| style="color: #407a40" | Ahhh, OK.  I noticed that Oriya crashes yelp, but it also does that in F10
|-
|| [[#t19:06|19:06]]  
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:15:29] <rudi> Will be ready to create a Transifex branch straight after that
|- id="t19:07"
|-
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jjmcd
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:15:43] <rudi> Manually.
| style="color: #407a40" | And there is a bug for yelp that sounds similar, but not specific to Oriya
|-
|| [[#t19:07|19:07]]  
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:15:55] <rudi> I don't know of a tool that works well enough
|- id="t19:08"
|-
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jjmcd
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:16:23] * jjmcd really wants to try mw-render but never any breathing room
| style="color: #407a40" | So for preview at least, it looks like we are done with release notes.  Any further on RNs?
|-
|| [[#t19:08|19:08]]  
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:16:39] <jjmcd> ianweller: what is the status of mwrender?
|- id="t19:09"
|-
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jjmcd
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:17:02] <ianweller> slowly coming out of a coma
| style="color: #407a40" | OK, our next task is the preview announcement.  They would like us to push the testing aspect a little harder.
|-
|| [[#t19:09|19:09]]  
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:17:23] <ianweller> not sure what's going on with the odfpy07 review, and a new patch from abadger1999 was pushed upstream
|- id="t19:09"
|-
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jjmcd
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:17:31] <ianweller> abadger1999 doesn't have any data to test with though
| style="color: #407a40" | There is a relatively long time between Pr and GA, so more time to test
|-
|| [[#t19:09|19:09]]  
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:17:38] <rudi> The problem with any conversion *to* xml is that the converter can preserve the markup, sure. But cannot create the semantic meaning behind the markup.
|- id="t19:09"
|-
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jjmcd
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:17:46] Join warren has joined this channel (n=warren@redhat/wombat/warren).
| style="color: #407a40" | Anyone interested in picking up the announcement?  Due Friday.
|-
|| [[#t19:09|19:09]]  
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:17:59] <ianweller> so if someone can throw data at him and how to cause churning so he can debug stuff, that would be great.
|- id="t19:10"
|-
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jjmcd
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:18:19] <abadger1999> Yeah. I can keep fixing tracebacks one by one but that's a bit inefficient.
| style="color: #407a40" | Don't everyone jump at once!
|-
|| [[#t19:10|19:10]]  
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:18:59] <jjmcd> rudi: Can we help that with more consistent wiki markup?
|- id="t19:11"
|-
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jjmcd
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:19:22] Join dychen_ has joined this channel (n=dingyich@d122-105-171-109.rdl15.qld.optusnet.com.au).
| style="color: #407a40" | Next thing on the schedule is pots for the guides, will all the guides have their pots for next week?
|-
|| [[#t19:11|19:11]]  
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:19:35] <jjmcd> abadger1999: I'm sure we can find data, are you looking to exploit specific issues?
|- id="t19:11"
|-
! style="background-color: #407a40" |  jjmcd
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:19:58] <abadger1999> jjmcd: Whatever you do with mw-render.
| style="color: #407a40" | is anyone here?
|-
|| [[#t19:11|19:11]]  
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:20:10] <rudi> jjmcd - not really. There's no real way to distinguish that (for example), '' (italics) in one instance is because it's the name of an application, in another instance is the name of a button, or in another case is a choice on a menu.
|- id="t19:11"
|-
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jjmcd
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:20:38] <abadger1999> jjmcd: Upstream tested my patch and had a traceback with mw-render. I'm not even sure what the program does :-)
| style="color: #407a40" | ke4qqq: IG status?
|-
|| [[#t19:11|19:11]]  
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:20:51] <jjmcd> ahhhh OK
|- id="t19:12"
|-
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jjmcd
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:20:59] <abadger1999> So what to try, data to try it with, what to expect.
| style="color: #407a40" | radsy: Security and SEL?
|-
|| [[#t19:12|19:12]]  
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:21:17] <abadger1999> Then I'll test with my patch and odfpy-0.9 and fix any issues.
|- id="t19:12"
|-
! style="background-color: #854685" | radsy
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:21:18] <rudi> I guess you could do it with classes, but then you lose pretty much all the advantage of a wiki, because you're basically coding raw HTML :)
| style="color: #854685" | selinux guide is going to be ready for peer review very soon
|-
|| [[#t19:12|19:12]]  
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:21:33] <ianweller> rudi: you could set up templates and hack the parser to deal with those separately.
|- id="t19:13"
|-
! style="background-color: #854685" | radsy
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:21:36] <jjmcd> rudi: A lot of our current markup has ''' around packages for example, but I thought we had a <package> macro or template or whatever with MW now.
| style="color: #854685" | in the next few days
|-
|| [[#t19:13|19:13]]  
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:21:52] <ianweller> like {{menuchoice|Blah -> blah -> blah}} would result in ''Blah -> blah -> blah'' on the wiki
|- id="t19:13"
|-
! style="background-color: #407a40" |  jjmcd
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:21:58] <rudi> True - but then, you're probably better off just coding XML anyway :)
| style="color: #407a40" | OK, so no pots next week I presume
|-
|| [[#t19:13|19:13]]  
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:22:16] <jjmcd> Well, except for gathering the contributors
|- id="t19:13"
|-
! style="background-color: #854685" | radsy
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:22:53] <jjmcd> Problem basically is that XML sounds scarier than the wiki, even if it isn't
| style="color: #854685" | security-guide is still being discussed
|-
|| [[#t19:13|19:13]]  
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:23:55] <jjmcd> So for now anyway, mw-render is an F12 or later thing I guess
|- id="t19:13"
|-
! style="background-color: #854685" |  radsy
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:24:06] <jjmcd> Anything else on the guides?
| style="color: #854685" | no
|-
|| [[#t19:13|19:13]]
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:24:27] <rudi> jjmcd - agreed. But at the same time, the people who find XML scary are unlikely to learn the intricacies of a set of specific wiki templates and use them consistently, I think.
|- id="t19:14"
|-
! style="background-color: #488888" | rudi
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:25:08] <jjmcd> rudi: Actually, I think the wiki actually *IS* harder than the XML, but XML/DocBook is a barrier
| style="color: #488888" | jjmcd -- IG is already in translation
|-
|| [[#t19:14|19:14]]  
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:25:17] <rudi> The wiki is an awesome knowledge-capturing tool, but I don't know that it's ever going to give us much head-start on markup (although I'll be very happy to be proven wrong...)
|- id="t19:14"
|-
! style="background-color: #407a40" |  jjmcd
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:26:08] Quit warren has left this server ("Leaving").
| style="color: #407a40" | rudi: excellent, thanks
|-
|| [[#t19:14|19:14]]  
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:26:09] <jjmcd> And to be honest, the manual translation really isn't all that painful, but still, auto would be nicer
|- id="t19:14"
|-
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jjmcd
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:26:13] <laubersm> It is more a mental thing for some reason - but you might get more people to learn wiki markup than both XML AND git - so maybe if
| style="color: #407a40" | danielsmw: User guide status?
|-
|| [[#t19:14|19:14]]  
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:26:38] <laubersm> someone was to contribute to wiki and others markup it up with templates then mwrender did the heavey lifting as it move to git for publication...
|- id="t19:15"
|-
! style="background-color: #488888" | rudi
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:26:53] Join warren has joined this channel (n=warren@redhat/wombat/warren).
| style="color: #488888" | jjmcd - I'm about an hour away from completing the UG conversion to XML
|-
|| [[#t19:15|19:15]]  
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:26:54] <laubersm> rather than having to diff the wiki every day
|- id="t19:15"
|-
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jjmcd
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:26:58] <laubersm> and fix the xml
| style="color: #407a40" | Ahhh, excellent.  Are you doing that manually or using a tool?
|-
|| [[#t19:15|19:15]]  
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:27:19] <jjmcd> Yes, I was thinking along those lines, too. And I forgot about git. That is even scarier for a new contributor
|- id="t19:15"
|-
! style="background-color: #488888" |  rudi
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:27:29] <laubersm> just a thought - for later and f12 :)
| style="color: #488888" | Will be ready to create a Transifex branch straight after that
|-
|| [[#t19:15|19:15]]
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:27:47] <jjmcd> perhaps a hackfest at FudCON/F12
|- id="t19:15"
|-
! style="background-color: #488888" | rudi
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:27:51] <laubersm> btw - I agree that git and XML/Docbook/publican is easier
| style="color: #488888" | Manually.
|-
|| [[#t19:15|19:15]]  
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:28:23] <jjmcd> But the emotional barrier, especially for git, is huge
|- id="t19:15"
|-
! style="background-color: #488888" | rudi
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:28:36] <laubersm> odd but true
| style="color: #488888" | I don't know of a tool that works well enough
|-
|| [[#t19:15|19:15]]  
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:28:57] <jjmcd> OK, CMS. Is there anyone who can enlighten us on the zikula status? ke4qqq?
|- id="t19:16"
|-
| colspan="2" | * jjmcd really wants to try mw-render but never any breathing room
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:29:37] <jjmcd> nobody?
|| [[#t19:16|19:16]]
|-
|- id="t19:16"
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:30:06] <laubersm> I saw a note from Simon that said he was busy but had not forgotten us :)
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jjmcd
|-
| style="color: #407a40" | ianweller: what is the status of mwrender?
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:30:22] <jjmcd> Well, that is encouraging
|| [[#t19:16|19:16]]  
|-
|- id="t19:17"
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:30:31] <jjmcd> ianweller: Anything on wiki?
! style="background-color: #42427e" | ianweller
|-
| style="color: #42427e" | slowly coming out of a coma
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:30:37] <ianweller> no :)
|| [[#t19:17|19:17]]  
|-
|- id="t19:17"
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:30:42] <jjmcd> ;)
! style="background-color: #42427e" |  ianweller
|-
| style="color: #42427e" | not sure what's going on with the odfpy07 review, and a new patch from abadger1999 was pushed upstream
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:30:45] Quit ajamison5579 has left this server (Remote closed the connection).
|| [[#t19:17|19:17]]  
|-
|- id="t19:17"
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:31:07] <laubersm> ianweller, did you change the Packaging pages yet?
! style="background-color: #42427e" |  ianweller
|-
| style="color: #42427e" | abadger1999 doesn't have any data to test with though
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:31:13] <ianweller> no :)
|| [[#t19:17|19:17]]  
|-
|- id="t19:17"
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:31:18] <ianweller> i'm working on wikibot
! style="background-color: #488888" | rudi
|-
| style="color: #488888" | The problem with any conversion *to* xml is that the converter can preserve the markup, sure. But cannot create the semantic meaning behind the markup.
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:31:21] <ianweller> somewhat slowly, but hay
|| [[#t19:17|19:17]]  
|-
|- id="t19:17"
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:31:22] <ianweller> hey*
| colspan="2" | -!- warren [n=warren@redhat/wombat/warren] has joined #fedora-meeting
|-
|| [[#t19:17|19:17]]
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:31:31] <laubersm> Add more help pages?
|- id="t19:17"
|-
! style="background-color: #42427e" | ianweller
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:31:37] <laubersm> Get localization?
| style="color: #42427e" | so if someone can throw data at him and how to cause churning so he can debug stuff, that would be great.
|-
|| [[#t19:17|19:17]]  
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:31:43] * laubersm runs and ducks
|- id="t19:18"
|-
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | abadger1999
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:32:13] Join warren_ has joined this channel (n=warren@209-6-203-69.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com).
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | Yeah.  I can keep fixing tracebacks one by one but that's a bit inefficient.
|-
|| [[#t19:18|19:18]]  
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:32:31] <jjmcd> renaming pretty much all done? So we can get after quaid and stickster
|- id="t19:19"
|-
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jjmcd
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:33:28] <jjmcd> and categorization of course
| style="color: #407a40" | rudi: Can we help that with more consistent wiki markup?
|-
|| [[#t19:19|19:19]]  
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:34:10] <laubersm> jjmcd, for DocsProject stuff? been done more weeks - someone needs to clean up what is left
|- id="t19:19"
|-
| colspan="2" | -!- dychen_ [n=dingyich@d122-105-171-109.rdl15.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #fedora-meeting
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:34:18] * ianweller goes to the corner of the channel and rolls up into a little ball
|| [[#t19:19|19:19]]
|-
|- id="t19:19"
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:34:24] <laubersm> hmmm --- been done for weeks --- is what I ment
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jjmcd
|-
| style="color: #407a40" | abadger1999: I'm sure we can find data, are you looking to exploit specific issues?
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:34:51] <jjmcd> OK, good. I see the occasional page outstanding, but I suspect the wikiczar needs to lean on some other folks
|| [[#t19:19|19:19]]  
|-
|- id="t19:19"
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:35:05] <jjmcd> Perhaps we need to order him a bigger stick
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" |  abadger1999
|-
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | jjmcd: Whatever you do with mw-render.
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:35:17] <jjmcd> OK, one other thing sort of snuck up on us. There are 5 docs in f-r-n.rpm besides the RN's proper
|| [[#t19:19|19:19]]  
|-
|- id="t19:20"
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:35:54] <jjmcd> These are all using the doc utils. I suppose it is time to convert them to Publican too, since we seem to be running out of raw docbook docs
! style="background-color: #488888" |  rudi
|-
| style="color: #488888" | jjmcd - not really. There's no real way to distinguish that (for example), '' (italics) in one instance is because it's the name of an application, in another instance is the name of a button, or in another case is a choice on a menu.
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:36:23] <jjmcd> Does anyone have a solution for creating the .omf files, besides brute force?
|| [[#t19:20|19:20]]  
|-
|- id="t19:20"
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:37:50] <jjmcd> Looking at the task list, it appears that all the items have names on them that aren't here, except for the 'all' tasks which are pretty much covered
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" |  abadger1999
|-
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | jjmcd: Upstream tested my patch and had a traceback with mw-render.  I'm not even sure what the program does :-)
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:38:14] <jjmcd> We are at the end of the list and it is pretty early, anything else?
|| [[#t19:20|19:20]]  
|-
|- id="t19:20"
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:38:38] Join ajamison5579 has joined this channel (n=andy@64.112.200.191).
! style="background-color: #407a40" |  jjmcd
|-
| style="color: #407a40" | ahhhh OK
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:38:45] <jjmcd> nobody?
|| [[#t19:20|19:20]]  
|-
|- id="t19:20"
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:38:51] <jjmcd> OK
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | abadger1999
|-
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | So what to try, data to try it with, what to expect.
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:38:54] <jjmcd> 10
|| [[#t19:20|19:20]]  
|-
|- id="t19:21"
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:38:59] <jjmcd> 9
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | abadger1999
|-
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | Then I'll test with my patch and odfpy-0.9 and fix any issues.
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:39:05] <jjmcd> 8
|| [[#t19:21|19:21]]  
|-
|- id="t19:21"
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:39:12] <jjmcd> 7
! style="background-color: #488888" |  rudi
|-
| style="color: #488888" | I guess you could do it with classes, but then you lose pretty much all the advantage of a wiki, because you're basically coding raw HTML :)
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:39:17] <jjmcd> 6
|| [[#t19:21|19:21]]  
|-
|- id="t19:21"
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:39:21] <jjmcd> 5
! style="background-color: #42427e" | ianweller
|-
| style="color: #42427e" | rudi: you could set up templates and hack the parser to deal with those separately.
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:39:25] <jjmcd> 4
|| [[#t19:21|19:21]]  
|-
|- id="t19:21"
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:39:29] <jjmcd> 3
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jjmcd
|-
| style="color: #407a40" | rudi: A lot of our current markup has ''' around packages for example, but I thought we had a <package> macro or template or whatever with MW now.
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:39:33] <jjmcd> 2
|| [[#t19:21|19:21]]  
|-
|- id="t19:21"
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:39:36] <jjmcd> 1
! style="background-color: #42427e" |  ianweller
|-
| style="color: #42427e" | like {{menuchoice|Blah -> blah -> blah}} would result in ''Blah -> blah -> blah'' on the wiki
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:39:41] <jjmcd> </meeting>
|| [[#t19:21|19:21]]  
|-
|- id="t19:21"
| colspan="3" | [Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:39:45] <jjmcd> Thanks everyone
! style="background-color: #488888" | rudi
| style="color: #488888" | True - but then, you're probably better off just coding XML anyway :)
|| [[#t19:21|19:21]]
|- id="t19:22"
! style="background-color: #407a40" |  jjmcd
| style="color: #407a40" | Well, except for gathering the contributors
|| [[#t19:22|19:22]]
|- id="t19:22"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jjmcd
| style="color: #407a40" | Problem basically is that XML sounds scarier than the wiki, even if it isn't
|| [[#t19:22|19:22]]  
|- id="t19:23"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jjmcd
| style="color: #407a40" | So for now anyway, mw-render is an F12 or later thing I guess
|| [[#t19:23|19:23]]  
|- id="t19:24"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jjmcd
| style="color: #407a40" | Anything else on the guides?
|| [[#t19:24|19:24]]  
|- id="t19:24"
! style="background-color: #488888" | rudi
| style="color: #488888" | jjmcd - agreed. But at the same time, the people who find XML scary are unlikely to learn the intricacies of a set of specific wiki templates and use them consistently, I think.
|| [[#t19:24|19:24]]  
|- id="t19:25"
! style="background-color: #407a40" |  jjmcd
| style="color: #407a40" | rudi: Actually, I think the wiki actually *IS* harder than the XML, but XML/DocBook is a barrier
|| [[#t19:25|19:25]]  
|- id="t19:25"
! style="background-color: #488888" | rudi
| style="color: #488888" | The wiki is an awesome knowledge-capturing tool, but I don't know that it's ever going to give us much head-start on markup (although I'll be very happy to be proven wrong...)
|| [[#t19:25|19:25]]
|- id="t19:26"
| colspan="2" | -!- warren [n=warren@redhat/wombat/warren] has quit ["Leaving"]
|| [[#t19:26|19:26]]
|- id="t19:26"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jjmcd
| style="color: #407a40" | And to be honest, the manual translation really isn't all that painful, but still, auto would be nicer
|| [[#t19:26|19:26]]  
|- id="t19:26"
! style="background-color: #818144" | laubersm
| style="color: #818144" | It is more a mental thing for some reason - but you might get more people to learn wiki markup than both XML AND git - so maybe if
|| [[#t19:26|19:26]]  
|- id="t19:26"
! style="background-color: #818144" |  laubersm
| style="color: #818144" | someone was to contribute to wiki and others markup it up with templates then mwrender did the heavey lifting as it move to git for publication...
|| [[#t19:26|19:26]]  
|- id="t19:26"
| colspan="2" | -!- warren [n=warren@redhat/wombat/warren] has joined #fedora-meeting
|| [[#t19:26|19:26]]
|- id="t19:26"
! style="background-color: #818144" |  laubersm
| style="color: #818144" | rather than having to diff the wiki every day
|| [[#t19:26|19:26]]  
|- id="t19:26"
! style="background-color: #818144" | laubersm
| style="color: #818144" | and fix the xml
|| [[#t19:26|19:26]]  
|- id="t19:27"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jjmcd
| style="color: #407a40" | Yes, I was thinking along those lines, too.  And I forgot about git.  That is even scarier for a new contributor
|| [[#t19:27|19:27]]  
|- id="t19:27"
! style="background-color: #818144" |  laubersm
| style="color: #818144" | just a thought - for later and f12 :)
|| [[#t19:27|19:27]]  
|- id="t19:27"
! style="background-color: #407a40" |  jjmcd
| style="color: #407a40" | perhaps a hackfest at FudCON/F12
|| [[#t19:27|19:27]]  
|- id="t19:27"
! style="background-color: #818144" | laubersm
| style="color: #818144" | btw - I agree that git and XML/Docbook/publican is easier
|| [[#t19:27|19:27]]  
|- id="t19:28"
! style="background-color: #407a40" |  jjmcd
| style="color: #407a40" | But the emotional barrier, especially for git, is huge
|| [[#t19:28|19:28]]
|- id="t19:28"
! style="background-color: #818144" |  laubersm
| style="color: #818144" | odd but true
|| [[#t19:28|19:28]]
|- id="t19:28"
! style="background-color: #407a40" |  jjmcd
| style="color: #407a40" | OK, CMS.  Is there anyone who can enlighten us on the zikula status? ke4qqq?
|| [[#t19:28|19:28]]
|- id="t19:29"
! style="background-color: #407a40" |  jjmcd
| style="color: #407a40" | nobody?
|| [[#t19:29|19:29]]
|- id="t19:30"
! style="background-color: #818144" |  laubersm
| style="color: #818144" | I saw a note from Simon that said he was busy but had not forgotten us  :)
|| [[#t19:30|19:30]]
|- id="t19:30"
! style="background-color: #407a40" |  jjmcd
| style="color: #407a40" | Well, that is encouraging
|| [[#t19:30|19:30]]
|- id="t19:30"
! style="background-color: #407a40" |  jjmcd
| style="color: #407a40" | ianweller: Anything on wiki?
|| [[#t19:30|19:30]]
|- id="t19:30"
! style="background-color: #42427e" |  ianweller
| style="color: #42427e" | no :)
|| [[#t19:30|19:30]]
|- id="t19:30"
! style="background-color: #407a40" |  jjmcd
| style="color: #407a40" | ;)
|| [[#t19:30|19:30]]
|- id="t19:30"
| colspan="2" | -!- ajamison5579 [n=andy@64.112.200.191] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
|| [[#t19:30|19:30]]
|- id="t19:31"
! style="background-color: #818144" |  laubersm
| style="color: #818144" | ianweller, did you change the Packaging pages yet?
|| [[#t19:31|19:31]]
|- id="t19:31"
! style="background-color: #42427e" |  ianweller
| style="color: #42427e" | no :)
|| [[#t19:31|19:31]]
|- id="t19:31"
! style="background-color: #42427e" |  ianweller
| style="color: #42427e" | i'm working on wikibot
|| [[#t19:31|19:31]]
|- id="t19:31"
! style="background-color: #42427e" |  ianweller
| style="color: #42427e" | somewhat slowly, but hay
|| [[#t19:31|19:31]]
|- id="t19:31"
! style="background-color: #42427e" |  ianweller
| style="color: #42427e" | hey*
|| [[#t19:31|19:31]]
|- id="t19:31"
! style="background-color: #818144" |  laubersm
| style="color: #818144" | Add more help pages?
|| [[#t19:31|19:31]]
|- id="t19:31"
! style="background-color: #818144" |  laubersm
| style="color: #818144" | Get localization?
|| [[#t19:31|19:31]]
|- id="t19:31"
| colspan="2" | * laubersm runs and ducks
|| [[#t19:31|19:31]]
|- id="t19:32"
| colspan="2" | -!- warren_ [n=warren@209-6-203-69.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #fedora-meeting
|| [[#t19:32|19:32]]
|- id="t19:32"
! style="background-color: #407a40" |  jjmcd
| style="color: #407a40" | renaming pretty much all done?  So we can get after quaid and stickster
|| [[#t19:32|19:32]]
|- id="t19:33"
! style="background-color: #407a40" |  jjmcd
| style="color: #407a40" | and categorization of course
|| [[#t19:33|19:33]]
|- id="t19:34"
! style="background-color: #818144" |  laubersm
| style="color: #818144" | jjmcd, for DocsProject stuff?  been done more weeks - someone needs to clean up what is left
|| [[#t19:34|19:34]]
|- id="t19:34"
| colspan="2" | * ianweller goes to the corner of the channel and rolls up into a little ball
|| [[#t19:34|19:34]]
|- id="t19:34"
! style="background-color: #818144" |  laubersm
| style="color: #818144" | hmmm --- been done for weeks --- is what I ment
|| [[#t19:34|19:34]]
|- id="t19:34"
! style="background-color: #407a40" |  jjmcd
| style="color: #407a40" | OK, good.  I see the occasional page outstanding, but I suspect the wikiczar needs to lean on some other folks
|| [[#t19:34|19:34]]
|- id="t19:35"
! style="background-color: #407a40" |  jjmcd
| style="color: #407a40" | Perhaps we need to order him a bigger stick
|| [[#t19:35|19:35]]
|- id="t19:35"
! style="background-color: #407a40" |  jjmcd
| style="color: #407a40" | OK, one other thing sort of snuck up on us.  There are 5 docs in f-r-n.rpm besides the RN's proper
|| [[#t19:35|19:35]]
|- id="t19:35"
! style="background-color: #407a40" |  jjmcd
| style="color: #407a40" | These are all using the doc utils.  I suppose it is time to convert them to Publican too, since we seem to be running out of raw docbook docs
|| [[#t19:35|19:35]]
|- id="t19:36"
! style="background-color: #407a40" |  jjmcd
| style="color: #407a40" | Does anyone have a solution for creating the .omf files, besides brute force?
|| [[#t19:36|19:36]]
|- id="t19:37"
! style="background-color: #407a40" |  jjmcd
| style="color: #407a40" | Looking at the task list, it appears that all the items have names on them that aren't here, except for the 'all' tasks which are pretty much covered
|| [[#t19:37|19:37]]
|- id="t19:38"
! style="background-color: #407a40" |  jjmcd
| style="color: #407a40" | We are at the end of the list and it is pretty early, anything else?
|| [[#t19:38|19:38]]
|- id="t19:38"
| colspan="2" | -!- ajamison5579 [n=andy@64.112.200.191] has joined #fedora-meeting
|| [[#t19:38|19:38]]
|- id="t19:38"
! style="background-color: #407a40" |  jjmcd
| style="color: #407a40" | nobody?
|| [[#t19:38|19:38]]
|- id="t19:38"
! style="background-color: #407a40" |  jjmcd
| style="color: #407a40" | OK
|| [[#t19:38|19:38]]
|- id="t19:38"
! style="background-color: #407a40" |  jjmcd
| style="color: #407a40" | 10
|| [[#t19:38|19:38]]
|- id="t19:39"
! style="background-color: #407a40" |  jjmcd
| style="color: #407a40" | 9
|| [[#t19:39|19:39]]
|- id="t19:39"
! style="background-color: #407a40" |  jjmcd
| style="color: #407a40" | 8
|| [[#t19:39|19:39]]
|- id="t19:39"
! style="background-color: #407a40" |  jjmcd
| style="color: #407a40" | 7
|| [[#t19:39|19:39]]
|- id="t19:39"
! style="background-color: #407a40" |  jjmcd
| style="color: #407a40" | 6
|| [[#t19:39|19:39]]
|- id="t19:39"
! style="background-color: #407a40" |  jjmcd
| style="color: #407a40" | 5
|| [[#t19:39|19:39]]
|- id="t19:39"
! style="background-color: #407a40" |  jjmcd
| style="color: #407a40" | 4
|| [[#t19:39|19:39]]
|- id="t19:39"
! style="background-color: #407a40" |  jjmcd
| style="color: #407a40" | 3
|| [[#t19:39|19:39]]
|- id="t19:39"
! style="background-color: #407a40" |  jjmcd
| style="color: #407a40" | 2
|| [[#t19:39|19:39]]
|- id="t19:39"
! style="background-color: #407a40" |  jjmcd
| style="color: #407a40" | 1
|| [[#t19:39|19:39]]
|- id="t19:39"
! style="background-color: #407a40" |  jjmcd
| style="color: #407a40" | </meeting>
|| [[#t19:39|19:39]]
|- id="t19:39"
! style="background-color: #407a40" |  jjmcd
| style="color: #407a40" | Thanks everyone
|| [[#t19:39|19:39]]  
|}
|}


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Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by [mailto:marius@pov.lt Marius Gedminas] - find it at [http://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html mg.pov.lt]!
{{Category:Docs_Project_meeting_logs}}

Latest revision as of 08:38, 18 September 2016

jjmcd <meeting><title>Fedora Docs Meeting</title> 19:00
jjmcd Sparks won't be here and I don't have ops so you won't see the channel topic changing 19:01
-!- openpercept [n=openperc@unaffiliated/openpercept] has joined #fedora-meeting 19:01
jjmcd Looks like many of the perps are missing 19:01
* rudi is here 19:01
jjmcd Before we get started on the agenda, we had a RelEng meeting today, no real show stoppers 19:01
* joat is lurking nearby 19:02
ianweller oh look a meeting 19:02
jjmcd I see a few of the usual suspects, but many are missing 19:02
* laubersm is here (mostly) 19:02
jjmcd Good, laubersm you are on the agenda 19:02
laubersm I am? 19:02
jjmcd Anyway, rawhide builds are going slowly on account of the delta rpms, but so far no real show stoppers 19:02
-!- radsy [n=irc@nat/redhat/x-ada7def238096e41] has joined #fedora-meeting 19:02
laubersm link? 19:02
jjmcd Docs_Project_meetings#Thursday_Apr_23_2009_.28Wed_US_Time.29 19:03
jjmcd There is an issue with logging on to updated systems they want us to make sure we catch on the common bugs page 19:03
jjmcd No other real news from RelEng ... on to f-r-n 19:04
jjmcd Release notes went out Tuesday for preview 19:04
jjmcd I noticed an issue with Oriya language and laubersm apparently had some issue there too. Can you explain laubersm? 19:05
laubersm The only problem I had was one that occured in another lang also 19:05
laubersm it loks like something fuzzy being transalated or something left over from F10 19:05
laubersm They were including an xref to another section that does not exist and was not in the english string 19:06
jjmcd OK, so not some tagging issue? 19:06
laubersm it is tagging - but it does not hit an error until after a build. 19:06
jjmcd Ahhh, OK. I noticed that Oriya crashes yelp, but it also does that in F10 19:06
jjmcd And there is a bug for yelp that sounds similar, but not specific to Oriya 19:07
jjmcd So for preview at least, it looks like we are done with release notes. Any further on RNs? 19:08
jjmcd OK, our next task is the preview announcement. They would like us to push the testing aspect a little harder. 19:09
jjmcd There is a relatively long time between Pr and GA, so more time to test 19:09
jjmcd Anyone interested in picking up the announcement? Due Friday. 19:09
jjmcd Don't everyone jump at once! 19:10
jjmcd Next thing on the schedule is pots for the guides, will all the guides have their pots for next week? 19:11
jjmcd is anyone here? 19:11
jjmcd ke4qqq: IG status? 19:11
jjmcd radsy: Security and SEL? 19:12
radsy selinux guide is going to be ready for peer review very soon 19:12
radsy in the next few days 19:13
jjmcd OK, so no pots next week I presume 19:13
radsy security-guide is still being discussed 19:13
radsy no 19:13
rudi jjmcd -- IG is already in translation 19:14
jjmcd rudi: excellent, thanks 19:14
jjmcd danielsmw: User guide status? 19:14
rudi jjmcd - I'm about an hour away from completing the UG conversion to XML 19:15
jjmcd Ahhh, excellent. Are you doing that manually or using a tool? 19:15
rudi Will be ready to create a Transifex branch straight after that 19:15
rudi Manually. 19:15
rudi I don't know of a tool that works well enough 19:15
* jjmcd really wants to try mw-render but never any breathing room 19:16
jjmcd ianweller: what is the status of mwrender? 19:16
ianweller slowly coming out of a coma 19:17
ianweller not sure what's going on with the odfpy07 review, and a new patch from abadger1999 was pushed upstream 19:17
ianweller abadger1999 doesn't have any data to test with though 19:17
rudi The problem with any conversion *to* xml is that the converter can preserve the markup, sure. But cannot create the semantic meaning behind the markup. 19:17
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ianweller so if someone can throw data at him and how to cause churning so he can debug stuff, that would be great. 19:17
abadger1999 Yeah. I can keep fixing tracebacks one by one but that's a bit inefficient. 19:18
jjmcd rudi: Can we help that with more consistent wiki markup? 19:19
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jjmcd abadger1999: I'm sure we can find data, are you looking to exploit specific issues? 19:19
abadger1999 jjmcd: Whatever you do with mw-render. 19:19
rudi jjmcd - not really. There's no real way to distinguish that (for example), (italics) in one instance is because it's the name of an application, in another instance is the name of a button, or in another case is a choice on a menu. 19:20
abadger1999 jjmcd: Upstream tested my patch and had a traceback with mw-render. I'm not even sure what the program does :-) 19:20
jjmcd ahhhh OK 19:20
abadger1999 So what to try, data to try it with, what to expect. 19:20
abadger1999 Then I'll test with my patch and odfpy-0.9 and fix any issues. 19:21
rudi I guess you could do it with classes, but then you lose pretty much all the advantage of a wiki, because you're basically coding raw HTML :) 19:21
ianweller rudi: you could set up templates and hack the parser to deal with those separately. 19:21
jjmcd rudi: A lot of our current markup has around packages for example, but I thought we had a <package> macro or template or whatever with MW now. 19:21
ianweller like Template:Menuchoice would result in Blah -> blah -> blah on the wiki 19:21
rudi True - but then, you're probably better off just coding XML anyway :) 19:21
jjmcd Well, except for gathering the contributors 19:22
jjmcd Problem basically is that XML sounds scarier than the wiki, even if it isn't 19:22
jjmcd So for now anyway, mw-render is an F12 or later thing I guess 19:23
jjmcd Anything else on the guides? 19:24
rudi jjmcd - agreed. But at the same time, the people who find XML scary are unlikely to learn the intricacies of a set of specific wiki templates and use them consistently, I think. 19:24
jjmcd rudi: Actually, I think the wiki actually *IS* harder than the XML, but XML/DocBook is a barrier 19:25
rudi The wiki is an awesome knowledge-capturing tool, but I don't know that it's ever going to give us much head-start on markup (although I'll be very happy to be proven wrong...) 19:25
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jjmcd And to be honest, the manual translation really isn't all that painful, but still, auto would be nicer 19:26
laubersm It is more a mental thing for some reason - but you might get more people to learn wiki markup than both XML AND git - so maybe if 19:26
laubersm someone was to contribute to wiki and others markup it up with templates then mwrender did the heavey lifting as it move to git for publication... 19:26
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laubersm rather than having to diff the wiki every day 19:26
laubersm and fix the xml 19:26
jjmcd Yes, I was thinking along those lines, too. And I forgot about git. That is even scarier for a new contributor 19:27
laubersm just a thought - for later and f12 :) 19:27
jjmcd perhaps a hackfest at FudCON/F12 19:27
laubersm btw - I agree that git and XML/Docbook/publican is easier 19:27
jjmcd But the emotional barrier, especially for git, is huge 19:28
laubersm odd but true 19:28
jjmcd OK, CMS. Is there anyone who can enlighten us on the zikula status? ke4qqq? 19:28
jjmcd nobody? 19:29
laubersm I saw a note from Simon that said he was busy but had not forgotten us  :) 19:30
jjmcd Well, that is encouraging 19:30
jjmcd ianweller: Anything on wiki? 19:30
ianweller no :) 19:30
jjmcd ;) 19:30
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laubersm ianweller, did you change the Packaging pages yet? 19:31
ianweller no :) 19:31
ianweller i'm working on wikibot 19:31
ianweller somewhat slowly, but hay 19:31
ianweller hey* 19:31
laubersm Add more help pages? 19:31
laubersm Get localization? 19:31
* laubersm runs and ducks 19:31
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jjmcd renaming pretty much all done? So we can get after quaid and stickster 19:32
jjmcd and categorization of course 19:33
laubersm jjmcd, for DocsProject stuff? been done more weeks - someone needs to clean up what is left 19:34
* ianweller goes to the corner of the channel and rolls up into a little ball 19:34
laubersm hmmm --- been done for weeks --- is what I ment 19:34
jjmcd OK, good. I see the occasional page outstanding, but I suspect the wikiczar needs to lean on some other folks 19:34
jjmcd Perhaps we need to order him a bigger stick 19:35
jjmcd OK, one other thing sort of snuck up on us. There are 5 docs in f-r-n.rpm besides the RN's proper 19:35
jjmcd These are all using the doc utils. I suppose it is time to convert them to Publican too, since we seem to be running out of raw docbook docs 19:35
jjmcd Does anyone have a solution for creating the .omf files, besides brute force? 19:36
jjmcd Looking at the task list, it appears that all the items have names on them that aren't here, except for the 'all' tasks which are pretty much covered 19:37
jjmcd We are at the end of the list and it is pretty early, anything else? 19:38
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jjmcd nobody? 19:38
jjmcd OK 19:38
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jjmcd 1 19:39
jjmcd </meeting> 19:39
jjmcd Thanks everyone 19:39

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