Meeting:Docs IRC log 20090423

jjmcd	<meeting><title>Fedora Docs Meeting</title>	19:00
jjmcd	Sparks won't be here and I don't have ops so you won't see the channel topic changing	19:01
-!- openpercept [n=openperc@unaffiliated/openpercept] has joined #fedora-meeting		19:01
jjmcd	Looks like many of the perps are missing	19:01
* rudi is here		19:01
jjmcd	Before we get started on the agenda, we had a RelEng meeting today, no real show stoppers	19:01
* joat is lurking nearby		19:02
ianweller	oh look a meeting	19:02
jjmcd	I see a few of the usual suspects, but many are missing	19:02
* laubersm is here (mostly)		19:02
jjmcd	Good, laubersm you are on the agenda	19:02
laubersm	I am?	19:02
jjmcd	Anyway, rawhide builds are going slowly on account of the delta rpms, but so far no real show stoppers	19:02
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laubersm	link?	19:02
jjmcd	Docs_Project_meetings#Thursday_Apr_23_2009_.28Wed_US_Time.29	19:03
jjmcd	There is an issue with logging on to updated systems they want us to make sure we catch on the common bugs page	19:03
jjmcd	No other real news from RelEng ... on to f-r-n	19:04
jjmcd	Release notes went out Tuesday for preview	19:04
jjmcd	I noticed an issue with Oriya language and laubersm apparently had some issue there too. Can you explain laubersm?	19:05
laubersm	The only problem I had was one that occured in another lang also	19:05
laubersm	it loks like something fuzzy being transalated or something left over from F10	19:05
laubersm	They were including an xref to another section that does not exist and was not in the english string	19:06
jjmcd	OK, so not some tagging issue?	19:06
laubersm	it is tagging - but it does not hit an error until after a build.	19:06
jjmcd	Ahhh, OK. I noticed that Oriya crashes yelp, but it also does that in F10	19:06
jjmcd	And there is a bug for yelp that sounds similar, but not specific to Oriya	19:07
jjmcd	So for preview at least, it looks like we are done with release notes. Any further on RNs?	19:08
jjmcd	OK, our next task is the preview announcement. They would like us to push the testing aspect a little harder.	19:09
jjmcd	There is a relatively long time between Pr and GA, so more time to test	19:09
jjmcd	Anyone interested in picking up the announcement? Due Friday.	19:09
jjmcd	Don't everyone jump at once!	19:10
jjmcd	Next thing on the schedule is pots for the guides, will all the guides have their pots for next week?	19:11
jjmcd	is anyone here?	19:11
jjmcd	ke4qqq: IG status?	19:11
jjmcd	radsy: Security and SEL?	19:12
radsy	selinux guide is going to be ready for peer review very soon	19:12
radsy	in the next few days	19:13
jjmcd	OK, so no pots next week I presume	19:13
radsy	security-guide is still being discussed	19:13
radsy	no	19:13
rudi	jjmcd -- IG is already in translation	19:14
jjmcd	rudi: excellent, thanks	19:14
jjmcd	danielsmw: User guide status?	19:14
rudi	jjmcd - I'm about an hour away from completing the UG conversion to XML	19:15
jjmcd	Ahhh, excellent. Are you doing that manually or using a tool?	19:15
rudi	Will be ready to create a Transifex branch straight after that	19:15
rudi	Manually.	19:15
rudi	I don't know of a tool that works well enough	19:15
* jjmcd really wants to try mw-render but never any breathing room		19:16
jjmcd	ianweller: what is the status of mwrender?	19:16
ianweller	slowly coming out of a coma	19:17
ianweller	not sure what's going on with the odfpy07 review, and a new patch from abadger1999 was pushed upstream	19:17
ianweller	abadger1999 doesn't have any data to test with though	19:17
rudi	The problem with any conversion *to* xml is that the converter can preserve the markup, sure. But cannot create the semantic meaning behind the markup.	19:17
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ianweller	so if someone can throw data at him and how to cause churning so he can debug stuff, that would be great.	19:17
abadger1999	Yeah. I can keep fixing tracebacks one by one but that's a bit inefficient.	19:18
jjmcd	rudi: Can we help that with more consistent wiki markup?	19:19
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jjmcd	abadger1999: I'm sure we can find data, are you looking to exploit specific issues?	19:19
abadger1999	jjmcd: Whatever you do with mw-render.	19:19
rudi	jjmcd - not really. There's no real way to distinguish that (for example), (italics) in one instance is because it's the name of an application, in another instance is the name of a button, or in another case is a choice on a menu.	19:20
abadger1999	jjmcd: Upstream tested my patch and had a traceback with mw-render. I'm not even sure what the program does :-)	19:20
jjmcd	ahhhh OK	19:20
abadger1999	So what to try, data to try it with, what to expect.	19:20
abadger1999	Then I'll test with my patch and odfpy-0.9 and fix any issues.	19:21
rudi	I guess you could do it with classes, but then you lose pretty much all the advantage of a wiki, because you're basically coding raw HTML :)	19:21
ianweller	rudi: you could set up templates and hack the parser to deal with those separately.	19:21
jjmcd	rudi: A lot of our current markup has around packages for example, but I thought we had a <package> macro or template or whatever with MW now.	19:21
ianweller	like Template:Menuchoice would result in Blah -> blah -> blah on the wiki	19:21
rudi	True - but then, you're probably better off just coding XML anyway :)	19:21
jjmcd	Well, except for gathering the contributors	19:22
jjmcd	Problem basically is that XML sounds scarier than the wiki, even if it isn't	19:22
jjmcd	So for now anyway, mw-render is an F12 or later thing I guess	19:23
jjmcd	Anything else on the guides?	19:24
rudi	jjmcd - agreed. But at the same time, the people who find XML scary are unlikely to learn the intricacies of a set of specific wiki templates and use them consistently, I think.	19:24
jjmcd	rudi: Actually, I think the wiki actually *IS* harder than the XML, but XML/DocBook is a barrier	19:25
rudi	The wiki is an awesome knowledge-capturing tool, but I don't know that it's ever going to give us much head-start on markup (although I'll be very happy to be proven wrong...)	19:25
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jjmcd	And to be honest, the manual translation really isn't all that painful, but still, auto would be nicer	19:26
laubersm	It is more a mental thing for some reason - but you might get more people to learn wiki markup than both XML AND git - so maybe if	19:26
laubersm	someone was to contribute to wiki and others markup it up with templates then mwrender did the heavey lifting as it move to git for publication...	19:26
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laubersm	rather than having to diff the wiki every day	19:26
laubersm	and fix the xml	19:26
jjmcd	Yes, I was thinking along those lines, too. And I forgot about git. That is even scarier for a new contributor	19:27
laubersm	just a thought - for later and f12 :)	19:27
jjmcd	perhaps a hackfest at FudCON/F12	19:27
laubersm	btw - I agree that git and XML/Docbook/publican is easier	19:27
jjmcd	But the emotional barrier, especially for git, is huge	19:28
laubersm	odd but true	19:28
jjmcd	OK, CMS. Is there anyone who can enlighten us on the zikula status? ke4qqq?	19:28
jjmcd	nobody?	19:29
laubersm	I saw a note from Simon that said he was busy but had not forgotten us  :)	19:30
jjmcd	Well, that is encouraging	19:30
jjmcd	ianweller: Anything on wiki?	19:30
ianweller	no :)	19:30
jjmcd	;)	19:30
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laubersm	ianweller, did you change the Packaging pages yet?	19:31
ianweller	no :)	19:31
ianweller	i'm working on wikibot	19:31
ianweller	somewhat slowly, but hay	19:31
ianweller	hey*	19:31
laubersm	Add more help pages?	19:31
laubersm	Get localization?	19:31
* laubersm runs and ducks		19:31
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jjmcd	renaming pretty much all done? So we can get after quaid and stickster	19:32
jjmcd	and categorization of course	19:33
laubersm	jjmcd, for DocsProject stuff? been done more weeks - someone needs to clean up what is left	19:34
* ianweller goes to the corner of the channel and rolls up into a little ball		19:34
laubersm	hmmm --- been done for weeks --- is what I ment	19:34
jjmcd	OK, good. I see the occasional page outstanding, but I suspect the wikiczar needs to lean on some other folks	19:34
jjmcd	Perhaps we need to order him a bigger stick	19:35
jjmcd	OK, one other thing sort of snuck up on us. There are 5 docs in f-r-n.rpm besides the RN's proper	19:35
jjmcd	These are all using the doc utils. I suppose it is time to convert them to Publican too, since we seem to be running out of raw docbook docs	19:35
jjmcd	Does anyone have a solution for creating the .omf files, besides brute force?	19:36
jjmcd	Looking at the task list, it appears that all the items have names on them that aren't here, except for the 'all' tasks which are pretty much covered	19:37
jjmcd	We are at the end of the list and it is pretty early, anything else?	19:38
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jjmcd	nobody?	19:38
jjmcd	OK	19:38
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jjmcd	</meeting>	19:39
jjmcd	Thanks everyone	19:39

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