Meeting:Docs IRC log 20091008

Sparks	#startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings	00:01
zodbot	Meeting started Thu Oct 8 00:01:03 2009 UTC. The chair is Sparks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.	00:01
zodbot	Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.	00:01
Sparks	#topic Roll Call	00:01
* Sparks		00:01
* jjmcd is here		00:01
* bcotton is here (who is this guy anyway)		00:01
jjmcd	And according to my watch, you were within a couple seconds, probably IRC lag	00:01
* danielsmw is here		00:02
* Sparks wants to shoot the guy who schedules a meeting in the middle of an amateur radio contest!		00:02
jjmcd	There's always a contest	00:02
ianweller	i wonder who that was	00:02
Sparks	:)	00:02
Sparks	70cm is dead anyway	00:03
Sparks	Okay, let's get started...	00:04
Sparks	#topic Old Business	00:04
Sparks	danielsmw: What the status on the editor for Zikula?	00:05
danielsmw	Sparks: i've been working on it for the past hour	00:05
Sparks	:)	00:05
danielsmw	Sparks: rpmlint comes out clean now	00:05
Sparks	danielsmw: Very cool!	00:05
danielsmw	so I think i may go ahead and put it on bugzilla	00:05
danielsmw	Yup.	00:06
Sparks	Excellent.	00:06
Sparks	Let us know if you need any support.	00:06
Sparks	Thanks for packaging it!	00:06
danielsmw	Sparks: Will do. I probably will later this evening	00:07
danielsmw	No problem1	00:07
Sparks	rudi: I see you changed the license info on the Fedora brand package for Publican	00:07
rudi	Yep -- all done	00:08
Sparks	rudi: Excellent	00:08
jjmcd	rudi, does that also include the additional localization?	00:08
rudi	jjmcd -- kinda	00:08
Sparks	ianweller: Did you figure out how to change the license on the wiki?	00:08
rudi	It includes the feedback file	00:09
ianweller	Sparks: it's in localsettings.php	00:09
ianweller	which is in puppet	00:09
Sparks	ianweller: So you are good to go?	00:09
rudi	But "Document Conventions" is part of the publican package	00:09
rudi	not the Fedora brand package.	00:09
ianweller	Sparks: sure i'll work on a patch sometime tonight and test it somewhere	00:09
jjmcd	That seems odd	00:09
rudi	(I also missed 4 languages in the package I released the other day, there's a corrected package in Bodhi now that should appear soon to fix that)	00:10
jjmcd	All the langs except Chinese are now building	00:10
rudi	Well, since "Document Conventions" documents how Publican renders various XML tags, this doesn't tend to change from brand to brand.	00:10
rudi	If someone came up with a very heavily customized brand that *did* change how those tags were rendered, they could also create a new "Document Conventions" text to ship with that package	00:12
rudi	Which would override the one in Common_Content/common	00:12
rudi	Anyway, I'll see if I can package the extra "Document Conventions" translations into a new release of Publican 0.44 for us	00:13
jjmcd	good deal	00:13
Sparks	Okay...	00:14
Sparks	#topic Status on CMS (Zikula)	00:15
Sparks	#link Zikula#Module_status	00:15
Sparks	Can anyone provide an update?	00:15
Sparks	Well, I know danielsmw will be submitting the editor for Zikula for review tonight.	00:16
danielsmw	Yup.	00:16
Sparks	Anyone else have an update?	00:17
Sparks	Okay, moving on	00:17
Sparks	#topic Status on CC license rollout.	00:17
Sparks	* #link License_changeover_schedule	00:17
Sparks	#link License_changeover_schedule	00:17
jjmcd	kudos to ianweller for his announcement and notoriety	00:18
Sparks	I think ianweller sent out the announcement on Monday.	00:18
Sparks	ianweller: Have you received any feedback?	00:18
ianweller	no	00:18
jjmcd	Sparks, showed up in LWN	00:18
Sparks	Cool	00:18
ianweller	i am looking into the wiki crap at the moment if anybody's wondering	00:18
jjmcd	Just reach into your bucket of magic pixie dust	00:19
Sparks	I think quaid was working on contacting previous contributors	00:19
Sparks	ianweller: do you have a link for that LWN article?	00:20
* ianweller looksies		00:20
Sparks	I think the big thing is going to be #7... Make changes to the guides. Rebuild all current versions and push them to docs.fp.o and repos. (All)	00:21
ianweller	http://lwn.net/Articles/355546/	00:21
ianweller	they just copy/pasted my emai	00:21
ianweller	email*	00:21
Sparks	That means that all guides will need to be updated ASAP.	00:21
Sparks	ianweller++	00:21
Sparks	This will be coming up in the near future.	00:22
rudi	I feel a world of CVS hurt a-comin :)	00:23
Sparks	#action Sparks to send to the list an action request to all guide leaders for update status of the license	00:23
Sparks	rudi: Yeah	00:23
* danielsmw is afk for a bit		00:23
Sparks	Okay, anything else on this topic?	00:23
rudi	Are we just republishing F11 docs?	00:23
rudi	Or further back too?	00:23
Sparks	rudi: I think just F11.	00:24
rudi	+1 !!!!!!	00:24
Sparks	F10 will be EOL soon anyway.	00:24
Sparks	rudi: Unless you want to go back to the FC days.  :)	00:24
rudi	Uh....	00:25
rudi	NO	00:25
rudi	:)	00:25
Sparks	IMO if people are going to want to use some of our information they would probably want to get it from the latest source and not an old guide.	00:25
* Sparks thinks ianweller got off easy during this ordeal		00:25
Sparks	Okay, moving on.	00:26
Sparks	#topic Shared open-source style guide	00:26
Sparks	#link https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-June/msg00163.html	00:26
Sparks	Does anyone have an update on this?	00:26
Sparks	Going...	00:26
Sparks	going...	00:27
Sparks	gone.	00:27
rudi	Still blocked by the NotEnoughHoursInTheDay bug	00:27
Sparks	rudi: Understood.	00:27
rudi	Expect some traction after I finish on the Publican 1.0 User Guide :)	00:27
Sparks	rudi: You might want to shoot ke4qqq an email on this as I think he wanted to work on it but probably has the same bug.	00:27
rudi	(RSN)	00:27
Sparks	#topic Guide needs?	00:27
* ianweller hsa to run		00:27
Sparks	Okay, anyone have any guides that are in need?	00:28
rudi	Sure -- my blocker is getting the content together that legal has agreed to release to the wider community	00:28
Sparks	ianweller: Cya	00:28
jjmcd	I sent a wuery to qrplinux-L looking for help	00:28
jjmcd	no joy	00:28
jjmcd	I think I will ping QRP-L, a much bigger list	00:28
bcotton	the RPM guide might need a new owner, i am ashamed to admit that I havent done squat with it all summer :-/	00:28
Sparks	jjmcd: On the Amateur Radio guide?	00:28
jjmcd	affirm	00:28
jjmcd	bcotton: same bug as rudi?	00:28
Sparks	jjmcd: Okay. I need to take a stab at some of it.	00:29
bcotton	jjmcd: a combo of that and NotEnoughExperience	00:29
Sparks	rudi: Which guide is this that you are having legal issues on?	00:29
jjmcd	Sparks, it would be nice to have something fairly complete for F12	00:29
Sparks	jjmcd: Might be too late in the game	00:29
jjmcd	could be	00:30
rudi	No guide -- I got left behind -- I was still talking about the Open Source Style Guide	00:30
Sparks	rudi: Ahhh	00:30
rudi	(and Red Hat's internal Style guidelines)	00:30
Sparks	rudi: understood	00:30
Sparks	bcotton: What do you need? More help or more time or both?	00:30
jjmcd	bcotton, you might be able to get some help from Florian. He asked us to do it, probably could provide content guidance	00:31
bcotton	Sparks: a bit of both. i'm taking a new job later this month, which should give me a bit more time once i get settled. i'll also get more experience with git and rpm building, and so forth	00:31
Sparks	bcotton: Put the word out on the f-docs-l and see if there are any takers.	00:32
bcotton	sparks: to help or to take? i'd be okay with either. i know the guide is rather dated, but i dont want to let it languish any more than it needs to	00:32
Sparks	bcotton: Whichever you feel most comfortable. You'd probably find helpers first, though.	00:33
bcotton	(i'll also try to hang out in the IRC channel more, i've been fairly absent for a while)	00:33
bcotton	sparks: can do!	00:33
Sparks	Okay	00:33
Sparks	jjmcd and rudi: How goes the RNs?	00:33
jjmcd	Well,	00:33
jjmcd	I need one small edit before I make the beta rpm	00:34
jjmcd	Next move I guess is to update docs.fp.o	00:34
rudi	jjmcd -- I've been doing that as langs hit 100%	00:34
jjmcd	We have been building every night anf the L10N gang has been working hard	00:34
Sparks	excellent	00:35
rudi	A couple of thoughts:	00:35
rudi	1) this time, I think we should only move langs to d.fp.o if there's been L10N work in the current cycle	00:35
rudi	2) langs should remain "Drafts" until they hit 100%	00:36
rudi	I think we're getting to the point where we should present readers with something a bit more polished	00:37
rudi	Some of you may have seen the French L10N team take a firm stand on this recently ;)	00:37
jjmcd	Last time there were a lot of langs at 80-90%, shouldn't we pull the trigger on those? Or should we encourage the translators to move that last few percent.	00:37
Sparks	I didn't	00:37
Sparks	rudi: Can you elaborate?	00:37
rudi	(They nuked the entire F12 RN fr.po file because they didn't want to see mishmashed docs published)	00:37
rudi	(and don't have plans to translate the F12 RN)	00:38
rudi	jjmcd -- I think we need to provide the encouragement to squeeze out that last 10%-20%	00:38
Sparks	rudi: So let me get this straight... There were French translations and they removed them all?	00:39
rudi	Sparks -- yes	00:39
rudi	French translations carried over from previous cycles	00:39
Sparks	rudi: That's not going to sit well with me at all.	00:39
rudi	For headings and stuff	00:39
Sparks	rudi: Why did they do that?	00:39
Sparks	What was the reasoning?	00:40
rudi	Sparks -- because they saw us (docs) publishing half-complete work in the past and didn't want it to happen again	00:40
jjmcd	Sounds so terribly French of them	00:40
ryanlerch	rudi: what was the % translated when they nuked it?	00:40
Sparks	so they aren't going to do them at all?	00:40
rudi	Sparks -- they have no plans to for F12	00:40
Sparks	I'm not good with that	00:40
rudi	ryanlerch -- only about 10%–20%	00:41
rudi	Reused strings.	00:41
Sparks	Okay... anything else?	00:42
rudi	It does mean, however, that if they decide that they want to do RN in French for (say) F13, they'll need to rebase the PO to F10	00:42
rudi	(or start from scratch, as they choose)	00:42
Sparks	That's just nuts	00:42
rudi	True, but they probably didn't realise that they could just ask us not to publish the doc ;)	00:43
Sparks	I'll keep my thoughts to myself at the moment.	00:43
rudi	And, I sympathise with their desire not to publish half-finished work to the world	00:43
Sparks	Okay, moving on.	00:43
Sparks	Anything else in the guide department?	00:43
Sparks	#topic New guides?	00:44
Sparks	Any new guides to be discussed?	00:44
jjmcd	You don't have enough?	00:44
Sparks	I don't have enough time to work on the guides I want to work on!	00:44
Sparks	:)	00:44
Sparks	#topic Other business	00:45
rudi	Just noting that the Virt Guide is up	00:45
Sparks	Anyone have anything else they want to talk about?	00:45
Sparks	rudi: +1	00:45
rudi	On the F12 drafts page	00:45
jjmcd	Sparks	00:45
rudi	Check it out! :)	00:45
jjmcd	You are aware that the beta meeting moved a week	00:45
Sparks	jjmcd: Yes... Was going to mention that to you... :)	00:45
jjmcd	:-) Poelstra sent me a note, I wasn't sure it also went to you	00:46
Sparks	jjmcd: I saw it on the logistics list. Are you on that?	00:46
jjmcd	Not sure, don't think so	00:46
jjmcd	I already have too many lists	00:47
Sparks	Okay, that list was created as a joint list kinda thing... mutual aid?	00:47
Sparks	Okay, anything else?	00:48
jjmcd	Yep, the note from JP was posted to logistics so I guess I am on it	00:48
Sparks	I actually have something.	00:48
Sparks	The first meeting after the F12 release I'll accept nominations for "leader" of the Docs Project.	00:49
Sparks	We'll give that a week and then we'll have a poll setup to vote.	00:49
Sparks	So be thinking of someone you'd like to see running this thing.	00:49
Sparks	I think it is a good idea to do this every release or two...	00:50
jjmcd	I don't know if you can get out of it that easy	00:50
Sparks	just to keep the ideas new and the momentum moving.	00:50
Sparks	jjmcd: One can try.	00:50
Sparks	jjmcd: All I have to do is nominate you.  :)	00:50
* ryanlerch nominates zodbot, he is always in meetings...		00:50
rudi	lolz@ryanlerch	00:50
Sparks	ryanlerch: That's true. And he does take really good notes.	00:50
* bcotton seconds ryanlerch's nomination		00:50
jjmcd	I'll decline, but maybe I should nominate EvilBob, he is always at these meetngs, too	00:51
bcotton	but here's a question: why can't zodbot be a she?	00:51
EvilBob	that is what I get for having a good bouncer	00:51
Sparks	bcotton: zodbot sounds too masculine	00:51
jjmcd	what about Sonar_Gal?	00:51
jjmcd	Always coming and going	00:52
Sparks	:)	00:52
Sparks	Okay, anything else?	00:52
danielsmw	ls	00:53
* danielsmw apologizes		00:53
Sparks	rm -Ir danielsmw	00:53
jjmcd	better than firefox http://myfavepornsite &	00:53
Sparks	5	00:54
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Sparks	Thanks everyone for coming!	00:54
Sparks	#endmeeting	00:54