QA/Meetings/20091026

Attendees

People present (lines said)

• jlaska (160)
• wwoods (58)
• adamw (46)
• Oxf13 (35)
• Viking-Ice (24)
• kparal (17)
• jwb (7)
• jeff_hann (4)
• mether (3)
• zodbot (3)
• buggbot (2)
• Jeff_S (2)
• skvidal (1)

Regrets:

• User:Liam
• User:rhe

Agenda

• Proposed meeting agenda
• meetbot summary

Previous meeting follow-up

See QA/Meetings/20091019#Action_items

• jlaska to rename other debug pages (see to be consistent with "How to debug <component> problems". Update back-links also

I believe this task is complete. See Category:Debugging for feedback. I've also organized the pages by the component name.

Remaining Question - What do folks want to do with ... KernelBugTriage? Should this change to How to debug kernel problems

Viking_Ice locale test suggestion

Background - https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-October/msg00503.html

Viking-Ice posted a sample script to demonstrate what an automated test should do (see http://pastie.org/671497). Some discussion followed on where best to implement this additional automated test in AutoQA. The group felt that adding the test to Israwhidebroken.com_Proposal was not appropriate. Jlaska felt that this test would be best suited for the QA:Fedora_12_Install_Test_Plan, is it currently is light on i18n verification. Viking-Ice took an action item to create a test case and propose adding it to the test plan. Once added, that test can be included in upcoming automation efforts User:Liam and User:Rhe are investigating.

Milos Jakubicek suggestion on FTBFS bugs

Background - Milos Jakubicek suggested a day/project to work on filing FTBFS(fails-to-build-from-scratch) bugs for all remaining packages that failed to build in F12 mass rebuild (see http://mjakubicek.fedorapeople.org/need-rebuild.html). Some discussion followed on what a QA effort around this might look like. F13 indicated he would have no problems tagging FTBFS rebuilds for F12. Mether provided a link to an existing effort (see FTBFS).

Unfortunately, Milos was not available during the meeting. Adamw took an action item to follow-up with Milos for next weeks meeting (or on fedora-test-list).

Marcela Maslanova test day proposal

Marcela Maslanova sent a test day proposal for including all tests in a package (see http://jvcelak.fedorapeople.org/testday-091022/testday-pm-0.6-1.fc12.src.rpm). Marcela was not present for the meeting, and Jlaska indicated further power management test day feedback was expected from Phil Knirsch soon. Jlaska wanted to highlight that this was the first test day that included a test day rpm which provided scripts to automate test cases and test results collection.

Some outstanding questions for the group:

1. Is there anything we need to be thinking or doing to support this type of work in the future?
2. Where should the test scripts used to in test day packages live?

AutoQA Updates from wwoods and kparal

autoqa-devel list now active Wwoods reminded the group that the autoqa development mailing list for patch review, autoqa progress and test development. Join the autoqa-devel list and contribute today!.

RpmGuard update Kparal directed the group to a blog post detailing his current status on the rpmguard effort. Kparal received some feedback from the post, including:

• skvidal directed kparal towards a potentially useful script -- http://skvidal.fedorapeople.org/misc/mungingdiff.py
• alexey torkhov suggested leveraging rpmsodiff (see https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/ticket/75 for tracking)

The next task for Kparal is to investigate the koji-build watcher wwoods is working on and integrate rpmguard into autoqa to have it up and running.

Post-koji-build watcher Wwoods provided a brief update on the post-koji-build which picks up every new build in a set of koji tags specified by autoqa. Some discussion followed on between kparal and wwoods on how to pass data between the tests and the watcher script. Wwoods indicated his current post-koji-build watcher would be landing in autoqa.git soon.

AutoQA library Wwoods indicated a library would also be landing in git soon that takes a package NVR and a koji tag, and returns the previous released versions of that package. Wwoods also noted a plan to create a general purpose autoqa library for use by all tests with helpers for koji interaction and virt guest creation.

Critical Path Package List Due to recent questions around the current critical path package list, wwoods reminded the group about the script http://wwoods.fedorapeople.org/files/critical-path/critpath.py. This script will solve the critical path package set and write output to critpath.txt. Jwb notified the group that he would be incorporating this script into the rawhide compose process. Future rawhide composes will include a critpath.txt file (e.g. http://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/mash/rawhide-20091027/logs/critpath.txt).

Open discussion - <Your topic here>

FUDCon Attendees

F13 asked who was planning to attend FUDCon. Since wwoods was planning for an AutoQA talk on how maintainers could add tests into PkgCVS, F13 would focus on the messagebus talk.

Upcoming QA events

• 2009-10-29 - i18n Test Day - Test_Day:2009-10-29

• 2009-10-30 - Blocker Bug Day (F12Blocker) #2

Action items

• adamw will ask Milos to follow-up at next week's meeting or on the list on the FTBFS topic
• Viking-Ice investigating creating a test case for bug#530452 ... and adding to F12 install matrix
• wwoods to add roadmap/tickets for reworking shared autoqa code (watchers, test helper methods, etc) into a proper library

IRC Transcript

jlaska	#startmeeting Fedora QA Meeting - QA/Meetings/20091026	16:08
zodbot	Meeting started Mon Oct 26 16:08:23 2009 UTC. The chair is jlaska. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.	16:08
zodbot	Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.	16:08
jlaska	#chair adamw	16:08
zodbot	Current chairs: adamw jlaska	16:08
jlaska	#topic Gathering	16:08
jlaska	hey gang, show of $limb ... who do we have joining today?	16:09
* jlaska notes ... Oxf13 indicated he would arrive late		16:09
* skvidal worries about this $limb thing		16:10
* kparal here		16:10
jlaska	kparal: howdy	16:10
jlaska	Viking-Ice: adamw: wwoods: and anyone else I'm forgetting	16:11
* Viking-Ice here..		16:11
* wwoods is here		16:11
jlaska	greetings gents	16:11
jlaska	adamw might be running late, so just going to kick things off and he run things when he returns	16:12
jlaska	skvidal: don't be afraid :)	16:12
jlaska	I put adamw's proposed agenda on the wiki, and plan to just walk the list (see QA/Meetings/20091026)	16:12
jlaska	starting with ...	16:12
jlaska	#topic Previous meeting follow-up	16:12
jlaska	I took an action item to rename the existing debug pages to the new format "How to debug <component> problems"	16:13
jlaska	so I think we're good there	16:13
jlaska		16:13
jlaska	there was 1 page left that I was unclear how folks wanted that	16:13
jlaska	#info So the only open item on my list is ... should KernelBugTriage be renamed to How to debug kernel problems?	16:14
jlaska	I'll follow up with cebbert before renaming that page	16:14
jlaska	besides, I think that page is more about traiging and not so much debugging, but could be wrong	16:15
jlaska	that's all I had recorded for last week, any other items before we dive into the agenda?	16:15
jlaska	Okay ... then first topic up ...	16:16
jlaska	#topic Viking_Ice locale test suggestion	16:16
jlaska	#link https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-October/msg00503.html	16:16
jlaska	Viking-Ice: you raised this on f-t-list this past week, sounds like you felt this is something that could be automated?	16:17
Viking-Ice	yup give me sec..	16:17
jlaska	sure	16:17
jlaska	Viking-Ice: want us to come back to this topic?	16:20
Viking-Ice	yup	16:20
jlaska	alright ... I'll move that to the end	16:21
jlaska	the next topic is around a discussion that milos Jakubicek and adamw had ... I'll save that for when Adamw returns	16:21
jlaska	#topic Marcela Maslanova test day proposal	16:22
adamw	morning - sorry, I overslept	16:22
jlaska	adamw: welcome morning ...	16:22
jlaska	you need a few minutes? Or should we jump back to the FTBFS topic?	16:22
adamw	go for it	16:23
jlaska	okay ... just a quick update on the current topic	16:23
jlaska	pknirsch is will be providing a formal summary of last weeks power management test day	16:23
jlaska	but I also received some updates from Marcela Maslanova around his experiences creating a test day rpm with automated scripts	16:24
jlaska	not sure if everyone had a chance to participate in this last event ... there's always time to jump in	16:24
jlaska	#link Test_Day:2009-10-22	16:24
kparal	*her* experience :)	16:25
jlaska	kparal: doh, thank you :)	16:25
jlaska	Just a summary for me ... the test day was awesome from a preparation stand-point	16:26
jlaska	you download a test day rpm ... and each of the tests was a script provided by the package	16:26
jlaska	so, the only thing I wanted to raise here was just around building on this process	16:26
jlaska	I know that not all test day topics are as easily automated	16:26
jlaska	but certainly need help from folks in identifying ways to automate future test days in much the same format that Marcela and team have	16:27
jlaska	installer might be one of those easy topics (w/ virt)	16:27
jlaska	I suspect X might not be very easy	16:28
jlaska	anyhow ... unless any other thoughts there ... let's jump back to FTBFS	16:28
jlaska	#topic Milos Jakubicek suggestion on FTBFS bugs	16:28
jlaska	adamw: you want to take it away?	16:28
adamw	well it's milos' idea, but I can explain what he told me	16:29
jlaska	go for it	16:29
adamw	#link http://mjakubicek.fedorapeople.org/need-rebuild.html	16:29
adamw	that's a list of remaining packages that did not rebuild in the f12 mass rebuild, with most false positives taken out (there's still a couple in there)	16:29
adamw	milos' suggestion is that we make sure FTBFS (fails-to-build-from-scratch, it's a debian term) bugs are filed for each one	16:30
jlaska	aha ... was trying to parse that acronym ... thx	16:30
adamw	we didn't get into any details of how exactly to arrange it, but it seemed like a decent idea to me	16:30
adamw	i suggested he come to the meeting to discuss it but obviously couldn't make it	16:31
jlaska	I saw him earlier in #fedora-qa ... but he dropped off	16:31
Oxf13	here now.	16:32
adamw	hi oxf13	16:32
adamw	so, that's the idea, pretty much. if anyone has any thoughts go ahead	16:32
jlaska	are these things that should be lined up prior to F-12 GA?	16:32
jlaska	if they weren't rebuilt ... what's the fallout (packages that contain .fc11 in the name)?	16:33
adamw	there's no terrible fallout, but making sure all packages build is good policy	16:33
jlaska	esp given a recent self-hosting blog post	16:34
adamw	it's possible some of them won't work any more till they get rebuilt, and if you leave it too long you wind up with a giant backlog of crusty packages (i speak from experience)	16:34
* Viking-Ice ready now :)		16:34
adamw	doing it before f12 ga would be nice but not essential, they can always be pushed as updates and anyway it'd be good for future releases too	16:34
jlaska	I'd be curious for Oxf13's take ... I know Jesse was closely involved with the mass rebuild	16:34
Oxf13	if they're non crit-path packages, I have no issue with tagging them up until we hit RC	16:35
* jlaska wonders if python-bugzilla can help here		16:35
adamw	i think they all are, looking at the list, they're mostly pretty obscure	16:35
jlaska	yeah	16:35
jlaska	I don't see anything wrong with filing bugs to track this stuff, that's the suggestion right?	16:36
adamw	jlaska: it may, except it's useful to provide a note of the build failure message in ftbfs bugs, which wouldn't be straightforward to automate.	16:36
adamw	yes	16:36
jlaska	adamw: good point	16:36
mether	adamw, http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FTBFS FYI	16:36
adamw	although the idea is specifically to do it as a 'project' within QA, not just to say 'filing these bugs is a good idea'. though I didn't get milos' thoughts on specifically how he wanted to arrange it.	16:37
adamw	mether: ah thanks	16:37
mether	Matt Domsch does a mass rebuild now and then as a QA measure	16:37
adamw	that seems to claim that bugs 'will' be filed, implying it happens automatically	16:37
mether	he has scripts that do that	16:38
Oxf13	and he autofiles bugs for the failures.	16:38
adamw	oh, yeah, milos did point to that same F12FTBFS list, but noted that there are 39 bugs on it	16:38
Oxf13	using python-bugizlla	16:38
adamw	whereas the list of packages he provided is rather longer than 39	16:38
Oxf13	his pass happened a month or so before my pass	16:38
adamw	#link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/showdependencytree.cgi?id=511348&hide_resolved=1	16:38
adamw	anyway, i'm sensing we need milos to explain his idea more fully either at next week's meeting or on the ml :)	16:39
jlaska	yeah, let's carry the topic fwd?	16:39
adamw	ok	16:39
jlaska	definitely open to the idea, but nothing tangible is coming to me other than one person walking down a list?	16:39
Oxf13	yeah, I haven't read the email yet	16:40
adamw	it could be done as a group thing, but i think we should clarify whether it needs to happen and why his list is longer than the bugs filed by matt's thingy and so on	16:41
Oxf13	his list is longer because more things failed in my pass	16:41
Oxf13	and I didn't autofile bugs	16:41
adamw	ah, ok.	16:41
adamw	anyway, i'll take an action item to ask him to follow-up at next week's meeting or on the list	16:42
jlaska	#action adamw will ask Milos to follow-up at next week's meeting or on the list on the FTBFS topic	16:42
jlaska	okay, shall we jump back to Viking-Ice's topic?	16:43
jlaska	#topic Viking_Ice locale test suggestion	16:43
jlaska	#link https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-October/msg00503.html	16:43
Viking-Ice	basically this is what I had in mind..	16:43
jlaska	Viking-Ice: take it away my good man	16:43
Viking-Ice	http://fpaste.org/GuOk/	16:43
* adamw -> biobreak		16:44
Viking-Ice	A test case that checks if keyboard layout is correct after install reports if not	16:44
jlaska	Viking-Ice: would we then want to iterate over installing using different lang/keymap settings ... and run this script?	16:44
jlaska	#link http://fpaste.org/GuOk/	16:45
Viking-Ice	I dont think we need to parse all of them	16:45
Viking-Ice	a single test should suffice and we should be able to add this to a current installation test	16:46
jlaska	Viking-Ice: for this test to fail now, you need to install with a non US lang and keymap?	16:46
Viking-Ice	in the ks file set the keyboard to a none us layout ( keyboard is-latin1 )	16:47
Viking-Ice	jlaska: it's the other way around it fails if it's not what we defined in keyboard	16:48
jlaska	Viking-Ice: seems like there is a enough to write a wiki Test_Case: for this	16:48
Viking-Ice	why ?	16:48
Viking-Ice	this should be automated	16:48
jlaska	gotta have a test before you automate	16:48
jlaska	Seems like it should be yeah	16:49
jlaska	but if we just write automation with no background or indication of the steps required, it's not really clear for people outside the group why that test exists	16:49
Viking-Ice	how do you wiki-fi for autoqa ?	16:49
jlaska	well, for israwhidebroken ... we have QA:Rawhide_Acceptance_Test_Plan	16:49
jlaska	once we have a test case, for me, the next step is determining where it's best to automate this	16:50
Viking-Ice	guess it would be added here QA:Anaconda_package_install_test_case	16:50
jlaska	whether it's a generally useful thing that affects how usable rawhide is - 'israwhidebroken'	16:50
Viking-Ice	but ok	16:50
adamw	Viking-Ice: no, that's a different test case.	16:50
adamw	test cases should be single purpose, not a clump of different tests in one.	16:51
jlaska	lili and rhe are currently looking into automating the current test matrix ... I think your case would fit perfectly there	16:51
Viking-Ice	Basic Functionality <-- then ?	16:51
wwoods	No. RATS is supposed to be a super-simple basic test	16:51
adamw	it would be a new test case, with its own name.	16:51
Viking-Ice	ah ok	16:51
wwoods	you're talking about something for a more exhaustive test plan	16:51
jlaska	yeah ... I'd see this case being added to the list here QA:Fedora_12_Install_Test_Plan	16:52
wwoods	it's called the Acceptance Test Plan because it sets out the criteria for judging whether we can even accept a rawhide tree for *real* testing	16:52
wwoods	you're talking about defining one of the cases for the *real* testing	16:52
wwoods	which is awesome and exciting	16:52
wwoods	but, yeah, falls outside of the rawhide acceptance test plan	16:52
jlaska	Viking-Ice: that test matrix you see floating aroudn is something that would come into play after wwoods's rats plan	16:52
jlaska	and it's light on validating any i18n tests ... it could use this	16:53
Viking-Ice	ok what's usually done with the output from those test ( OK fail ) mailed etc..	16:53
jlaska	That's what they're investigating now ... very *early* stages	16:53
adamw	the tests in the test matrix are done manually, you see Liam Li send out mails every so often for that testing	16:53
wwoods	depends on how you write the test. right now it gets stuffed into the autotest UI; we have the RATS tests also sending email when they complete	16:54
wwoods	you can decide what you want it to do	16:54
adamw	autoqa tests are run regularly and results mailed to a special mailing list at present, but automating tests is more complex and hasn't been done for all tests yet	16:54
jlaska	and I think you've got a good test case here to cover recent non-US lang/keymap failures	16:54
jlaska	so it'll be a bit before we have the full test matrix automated	16:55
jlaska	so I'd start with getting the test case defined and added to the install test plan	16:55
jlaska	how do others feel?	16:55
Oxf13	worksforme	16:55
Viking-Ice	this checks for what is essentially what maintainer asked for on bug 530452	16:55
buggbot	Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=530452 high, low, ---, jmccann, MODIFIED, Gnome sets the keyboard layout to USA after every log in	16:55
jlaska	Viking-Ice: yeah, we certainly need more testing there	16:56
Viking-Ice	so what additional steps do we take from here..	16:57
jlaska	basically, create a wiki test case and propose adding it to the current install test matrix	16:57
Viking-Ice	ok	16:57
jlaska	I think that's the first step	16:57
jlaska	the follow-on steps will be around automating that large matrix ... I don't have any updates on that front, other than that's a topic Liam and Rui have started investigating	16:58
jlaska	Viking-Ice: but this way, if we've go tthe test case ... it won't get lost	16:58
jlaska	anyone want to take an action item to create the test case and request addition to the matrix?	16:58
Viking-Ice	guess me I suppose with guided hand :)	16:59
jlaska	hehe ... thanks!	16:59
adamw	Viking-Ice: it's pretty straightforward to create a test case, it's just a wiki page based on a template; edit any existing test case to see how it's done	16:59
Viking-Ice	or review patients :)	16:59
jlaska	#link Template:QA/Test_Case	16:59
adamw	Viking-Ice: but feel free to ping me if you're having trouble	16:59
jlaska	#action Viking-Ice investigating creating a test case for bug#530452 ... and adding to F12 install matrix	17:00
buggbot	Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=530452 high, low, ---, jmccann, MODIFIED, Gnome sets the keyboard layout to USA after every log in	17:00
jlaska	Viking-Ice: fedora-qa tickets will come into play here soon	17:00
jlaska	once we have an idea on how to proceed on the matrix automation front	17:01
jlaska	alright, any other updates on this topic, or shall we jump to autoqa?	17:01
jlaska	okay ... autoqa time	17:02
jlaska	#topic AutoQA Updates from wwoods and kparal	17:02
jlaska	wwoods: kparal: what's up in your realm?	17:02
kparal	ok, news from the rpmguard world:	17:02
kparal	I have posted a blog about rpmguard	17:02
kparal	http://kparal.wordpress.com/2009/10/21/rpmguard-print-important-differences-between-rpms/	17:02
kparal	and I also wrote to some mailing lists.	17:02
kparal	maybe you have noticed	17:02
jlaska	#link http://kparal.wordpress.com/2009/10/21/rpmguard-print-important-differences-between-rpms	17:03
kparal	there was some feedback, skvidal posted me a link to his mungingdiff	17:03
kparal	http://skvidal.fedorapeople.org/misc/mungingdiff.py	17:03
kparal	but I'm not sure if there are parts inside which I haven't already implemented in rpmguard	17:03
kparal	also alexey torkhov suggested to leverage rpmsodiff in my tool. I have created a ticket for that, because I have decided to look at it a little later:	17:03
kparal	https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/ticket/75	17:03
kparal	the upcoming task is to look at the watcher wwoods is working on and integrate rpmguard into autoqa to have it up and running	17:04
jlaska	#info the upcoming task is to look at the watcher wwoods is working on and integrate rpmguard into autoqa to have it up and running	17:04
wwoods	so, yup - we've got a basic watcher for koji	17:04
wwoods	it's ready to be run and picks up every new build in a set of koji tags that we specify	17:04
kparal	so, for my script the important part would be to find out the version and the link of the previous package release. to have something to compare	17:05
wwoods	right - the tests for that hook will likely get a package NVR and/or package name as input	17:05
wwoods	but I'm writing a library to take e.g. a package NVR and tag and give you the previous released versions of that package	17:06
wwoods	or rather, I have written that tool	17:06
kparal	is it in the git atm?	17:06
wwoods	and it will be available for use in post-koji-build tests	17:06
wwoods	not yet	17:06
jlaska	sweet	17:06
kparal	looking forward to it	17:06
Oxf13	hrm.	17:06
wwoods	I need to rearrange the autoqa library stuff a little bit so the tests can share code like this better	17:06
Oxf13	it might make more sense to compare to the previous shipped package, rather than the previous built package	17:06
wwoods	Oxf13: I said "previously released"	17:07
Oxf13	(would make it a lot easier to discover too)	17:07
Oxf13	wwoods: oh sorry, missed that	17:07
kparal	very good point, nice	17:07
wwoods	to go into more detail: you give it a package name (e.g. "preupgrade") and a tag (e.g. "dist-f12-updates-candidate")	17:07
jlaska	#info basic watcher for koji in place. picks up every new build in a set of koji tags that we specify	17:07
wwoods	we have some data that indicates which other tags to check for that	17:08
wwoods	i.e. "dist-f12-updates-candidate" -> "dist-f12" and "dist-f12-updates" (iirc)	17:08
Oxf13	wwoods: (not to distract, but wouldn't dist-f12-updates(-testing) be more appropriate? not all -candidate builds get shipped)	17:08
jlaska	#info wwoods has a library soon to be added to git repo which takes a package NVR and tag and provides the previous released versions of that package	17:08
Oxf13	wow, n/m.	17:08
wwoods	so then it asks koji for the NVR of the packages with those specific tags	17:08
wwoods	right, the point is that the watcher sees the build land in -candidate	17:08
wwoods	and the test can use this library call if it needs to know the corresponding version for -updates or -updates-testing or the GA	17:09
jlaska	wwoods: cool, so it walks the tag inheritance chain?	17:09
wwoods	not explicitly, no	17:09
wwoods	we have to keep a mapping in autoqa that tells us which "parent" tags to check for a given -candidate	17:09
wwoods	we already have a mapping like this in the other watchers	17:10
jlaska	wwoods - keepin' it simple	17:10
wwoods	e.g. https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/browser/hooks/post-repo-update/watch-repos.py	17:10
jlaska	right on	17:10
wwoods	so I'm thinking we need to move the data from line 30-76	17:10
wwoods	which is also in https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/browser/hooks/post-tree-compose/watch-composes.py	17:11
wwoods	and keep a shared autoqa.repoinfo data structure	17:11
Oxf13	yeah, that sounds good	17:11
jlaska	+1	17:11
Oxf13	we could make a watcher library	17:11
wwoods	which may be provided by a config file (so we don't have to update the package just to tweak the inheritance/URLs/etc)	17:11
Oxf13	that includes the mapping, and any other common stuff, then each watcher script could import the library	17:11
wwoods	Oxf13: yep, that's the plan - gonna have an autoqa library for the server-side stuff (watchers etc)	17:12
Oxf13	rock	17:12
Oxf13	it's like... real software development	17:12
wwoods	and one for the test stuff (like the things in rats.py and virtguest.py)	17:12
wwoods	(and the proposed koji-interfacing stuff I mentioned for post-koji-build)	17:12
adamw	Oxf13: maybe we need something to automatically check whether there's any bugs in it =)	17:12
Oxf13	adamw: crazy talk.	17:12
wwoods	I should roadmap out this plan but I was upgrading my workstation to F12B last week	17:13
wwoods	but yeah now that I think of it, I'm going to give myself an action to do that	17:13
* jlaska pulls out the meetbot action pen		17:13
jlaska	wwoods: are these post irb.com things?	17:14
wwoods	#action wwoods to add roadmap/tickets for reworking shared autoqa code (watchers, test helper methods, etc) into a proper library	17:14
jlaska	oh thanks ... u did it for me :)	17:14
wwoods	jlaska: yes, this is a different milestone in my opinion	17:14
jlaska	#info update from mmcgrath on hardware the hardware delivery ... looking at Nov 20	17:15
wwoods	oh also! I'd like to mention http://wwoods.fedorapeople.org/files/critical-path/critpath.py	17:15
wwoods	which was rewritten to be dead stupid simple to use	17:15
wwoods	you run that script, it solves critpath and writes critpath.txt	17:15
jlaska	#link http://wwoods.fedorapeople.org/files/critical-path/critpath.py	17:16
Oxf13	I do believe jwb was going to integrate that with the rawhide compose	17:16
wwoods	Oxf13: excellent!	17:16
Oxf13	so that we'd have a written out critpath just like we do the depsolve and repodiff	17:16
jwb	yes. need to get back to that, but i've been sick	17:16
jlaska	Oxf13: so that output would be in the mash log dir for each rawhide compose?	17:16
Oxf13	which would give us a static url, http://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/mash/rawhide/logs/critpath.txt	17:16
Oxf13	jlaska: yes	17:16
jlaska	delicious!	17:16
wwoods	after warren's confusion using the months-old deplist.txt I had sitting in my people.fp.o page I want to make sure everyone knows how this works	17:16
Oxf13	"mash/rawhide" is a symlink that gets updated each compose	17:17
wwoods	oh man that would be totally aces	17:17
jwb	it will be dated, but yeah	17:17
jlaska	thanks jwb	17:17
wwoods	I'll do whatever I can to help get that integrated	17:17
wwoods	dated as in it'll have a date on it	17:17
wwoods	not "it'll be kind of old"	17:17
wwoods	right?	17:17
jwb	wwoods, you did a lot already. i just need to take your script and add it to the releng git repo, etc. yes, dated as in 'critpath-<date>.txt'	17:17
Oxf13	jwb: dated? What will be dated?	17:18
Oxf13	hrm.	17:18
jwb	the file itself	17:18
Oxf13	jwb: it might be better to not date it, so that we have a static URL	17:18
Oxf13	it'll already be in a dated directory	17:18
wwoods	it'll be in a datestamped *directory*.. yeah	17:18
jwb	oh, true	17:18
jwb	ok, wfm	17:18
jwb	i was still going off of the 'will be on mirrors' idea	17:19
jlaska	#info jwb working to integrate critpath script into daily rawhide compose process	17:19
jlaska	wwoods: kparal: great updates thx ... anything else to note for the logs?	17:19
wwoods	oh	17:20
wwoods	autoqa-devel!	17:20
jlaska	ah yes	17:20
wwoods	https://fedorahosted.org/mailman/listinfo/autoqa-devel	17:20
jlaska	and atodorov gets points for being the first poster	17:21
jlaska	I don't know if it needs this or not ...	17:21
jlaska	#link https://fedorahosted.org/mailman/listinfo/autoqa-devel	17:21
Oxf13	blah, more lists I should probably be on	17:21
* jeff_hann here...sorry I'm late		17:22
jlaska	jeff_hann: thanks for joining ... just about to go to open floor	17:22
wwoods	yeah, Yet Another Mailing List, but honestly we avoided it as long as we possibly could	17:22
wwoods	and eventually determined that we really need a mailing list after all	17:22
jlaska	Thanks for the updates wwoods and kparal ... lots of progress	17:23
jlaska	so ... I'm going to skip ahead and jump back on the agenda	17:23
jlaska	#topic Upcoming QA events - 2009-10-29 - i18n Test Day	17:23
jlaska	#link Test_Day:2009-10-29	17:23
jlaska	#info Looking for volunteers	17:24
jlaska	Rui and Jens pulled together the test day wiki page. I think it looks pretty good	17:24
jlaska	but we could use more volunteers to help with i18n testing this Thursday	17:24
jlaska	if you're interested, feel free to add a watch to the wiki page	17:25
jlaska	or add yourself to the cc list of the tracking ticket	17:25
adamw	also poke any chinese/japanese/korean speakers you know :)	17:25
jlaska	#link https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-qa/ticket/25	17:25
jlaska	adamw: yes please!	17:25
jlaska	I'm personallyn not well versed in i18n verification ... so more eyes are needed to review the plan and propose changes	17:26
jlaska	and of course ... help test :)	17:26
jlaska	#topic Upcoming QA events - 2009-10-30 - Blocker Bug Day #2	17:26
jlaska	Kudos to adamw and Oxf13 for walking through the list not once, but twice last week	17:26
adamw	we are shooting for this blocker bug meeting to end slightly before the heat death of the universe	17:26
jlaska	#link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/showdependencytree.cgi?id=473303&hide_resolved=1	17:27
jlaska	adamw: ouch, no kidding :)	17:27
jlaska	recap from last meeting ...	17:27
jlaska	#link https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-October/msg00579.html	17:27
jlaska	Under the column ... how can I help ...	17:27
jlaska	add block:F12Blocker for issues you feel affect a fair number of users, or are just plain embarrasing	17:28
jlaska	If you are assigned or on the cc list of a blocker list bug ... you can help in advance by ensuring the bug is up-to-date	17:28
jlaska	adamw: anything else you can think of?	17:28
adamw	not really - more people coming to the meeting to help review the bugs is always welcome	17:29
jlaska	agreed!	17:29
jlaska	adamw: something about more eyes right? :)	17:29
adamw	more eyes make all arguments longer, yes	17:30
jlaska	bingo!	17:30
jlaska	okay, moving along ...	17:30
jlaska	#Topic Open discussion - <Your topic here>	17:30
jlaska	anything else not covered that is of interest?	17:31
jlaska	concerns, questions, complaints ... favorite color?	17:31
Oxf13	Who all is going to FUDCon ?	17:31
jeff_hann	just for information value, I have several kernel bugs I'm working on	17:31
wwoods	I'll be at FUDCon	17:32
Oxf13	wwoods: good, I want to get people talking about the message bus, and what kind of data you'd need from it for autoqa et al	17:32
adamw	I am	17:32
adamw	Jeff_S: wrong meeting, but did you get in touch with rjune regarding kernel triage in the end?	17:32
adamw	grr	17:32
adamw	jeff_hann: ^^^	17:33
Jeff_S	adamw: no :)	17:33
adamw	Jeff_S: go away, WrongJeff =)	17:33
Jeff_S	lol	17:33
jlaska	heh	17:33
Oxf13	so I signed up to do an update on AutoQA, but since wwoods will be there, perhaps wwoods should take over that pitch?	17:33
jeff_hann	:)	17:33
jeff_hann	will do that	17:33
wwoods	Oxf13: sure, I can do that	17:34
jlaska	Oxf13: we're planning for a blitzkrieg of autoqa information for the FUDCon	17:34
wwoods	we're hoping to be able to give a status update and demonstrate a prototype for how maintainers can add post-build tests right in pkgcvs	17:34
Oxf13	rock	17:34
jlaska	okay gang ... I think we can put a fork in this meeting	17:35
jlaska	thanks everyone for joining and providing your $0.02	17:35
jlaska	As usual, minutes will be on the mailing list soon	17:36
adamw	thanks jlaska	17:36
jlaska	#endmeeting	17:36

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