Using the Windows cross-compiler (20090308 classroom)

Resources

• Features/Windows_cross_compiler
• http://annexia.org/tmp/fedora-classroom-mingw-talk.txt

IRC Log

-!- nirik changed the topic of #fedora-classroom to: Fedora IRC Classroom - Using the Windows cross-compiler with your teacher Richard Jones ( rwmjones ) - See Classroom for todays class schedule and more info.		12:14
@rwmjones	herlo, about time to start I think	12:14
@nirik	ok, it's time to start in on our first class of the day.	12:14
@nirik	take it away rwmjones! :)	12:15
@rwmjones	Morning/afternoon/evening Fedora users from around the world!	12:15
@rwmjones	I've got a short prepared talk about APIs and cross-compilers,	12:15
@rwmjones	followed by a practical demonstration which you can follow along.	12:15
@rwmjones	If you want to follow the practical demonstration, go here to see how	12:15
@rwmjones	to set it up (best to start now):	12:15
@rwmjones	http://annexia.org/tmp/setup.txt	12:15
DiscordianUK	good evening	12:15
@rwmjones	Short, general interest questions are welcome any time. If you have	12:15
@rwmjones	long, deep technical questions or you want to argue with me about "why	12:15
@rwmjones	are we helping Windows users" etc then please leave it til the end.	12:15
-!- rwmjones changed the topic of #fedora-classroom to: Using the Windows cross-compiler: API basics		12:16
@rwmjones	What is an API? A collection of functions that you can call. Linux	12:16
@rwmjones	has hundreds of APIs, some with thousands of functions.	12:16
@rwmjones	Examples:	12:16
@rwmjones	POSIX/C99/libc: fork, getenv, fopen, ctime, printf, ...	12:16
@rwmjones	Gtk+: gtk_button_new, gtk_object_ref, gdk_colormap_query_color, ...	12:16
@rwmjones	libcurl: curl_easy_init, curl_easy_perform, curl_formadd, ...	12:16
@rwmjones	openssl: SSL_CIPHER_get_version, SSL_CTX_sess_connect, ...	12:16
@rwmjones	Most real world programs call just a few functions from a small number	12:16
@rwmjones	of APIs.	12:16
@rwmjones	(Diagram: http://www.annexia.org/tmp/02-win-api.pdf )	12:16
@rwmjones	(Diagram: http://www.annexia.org/tmp/02-win-api.pdf )	12:16
@rwmjones	Looking at the diagram above, I've tried to summarise a few of the	12:16
@rwmjones	APIs you'll find on Linux. Thanks to the huge efforts of many free	12:16
@rwmjones	software developers over many years, those APIs are also available on	12:16
@rwmjones	Windows.	12:16
DiscordianUK	which version of windows is that?	12:17
@rwmjones	DiscordianUK, that's windows xp and "above"	12:17
@rwmjones	although some applies to '95, '98 and 2K	12:17
DiscordianUK	Okay thanks	12:17
DiscordianUK	right	12:17
@rwmjones	The one obvious exception is POSIX/libc. libc is so directly tied to	12:17
@rwmjones	specifics of how Unix works that it's hard to port it (that's what	12:17
@rwmjones	Cygwin emulates). But it turns out most programs don't make too many	12:17
@rwmjones	calls to libc directly. Mostly they call higher level APIs (Gtk, Qt).	12:17
@rwmjones	Portability libraries and higher level APIs can replace a lot of libc	12:18
@rwmjones	calls and make software easier to port.	12:18
@rwmjones	Examples: Gnulib, glib2, Qt, NSPR, APR, kdewin32, Boost, POCO	12:18
-!- rwmjones changed the topic of #fedora-classroom to: Using the Windows cross-compiler: Cross-compiler basics		12:18
@rwmjones	Cross-compilers are like ordinary compilers, but they generate code	12:18
@rwmjones	for another machine. A common example are cross-compilers that	12:18
@rwmjones	generate code for embedded machines (the embedded machine isn't "big	12:18
@rwmjones	enough" to run a compiler on its own).	12:18
@rwmjones	Terminology:	12:19
@rwmjones	Build: The machine on which we build the software. (Fedora)	12:19
@rwmjones	Host: The system where the software will run. (Windows)	12:19
@rwmjones	Target: (You don't need to worry about 'target'.	12:19
@rwmjones	Technically it's different from 'host', but the terms	12:19
@rwmjones	are often wrongly used interchangably.)	12:19
@rwmjones	We treat Windows as a strange embedded machine (!)	12:19
DiscordianUK	haha!	12:19
-!- rwmjones changed the topic of #fedora-classroom to: Using the Windows cross-compiler: Practical demonstration		12:20
@rwmjones	ok on to the practical part	12:20
@rwmjones	So you need to set up your machine as described:	12:20
@rwmjones	http://annexia.org/tmp/setup.txt	12:20
@rwmjones	While you're doing that, download the sources:	12:20
@rwmjones	http://www.annexia.org/_file/tictactoe-1.0.tar.gz	12:20
@rwmjones	and unpack them somewhere as a non-root, ordinary user.	12:20
@rwmjones	wget 'http://www.annexia.org/_file/tictactoe-1.0.tar.gz'	12:21
@rwmjones	zcat tictactoe-1.0.tar.gz | tar xvf -	12:21
@rwmjones	cd tictactoe-1.0	12:21
@rwmjones	how far are people with yum downloads?	12:21
DiscordianUK	i've got it all installed	12:22
* nirik has stuff down, but has a local mirror, so it was pretty fast. ;)		12:22
* Plouj is afraid to hose his system by installing so many "testing" packages		12:22
@rwmjones	it's certainly killing that server	12:23
delhage	?	12:23
baconfork	haha	12:23
linuxguru	haha	12:23
* rahmanangel is keep downloading, it will take time becoz of slow net, so forget about him		12:23
DiscordianUK	building ttt the unix way gives me something that almost works	12:23
Plouj	What is the point of the wine* packages? Why aren't the ones provided by fedora good enough?	12:24
@nirik	rwmjones: you can place them on fedorapeople too if you like... should have lots of BW available.	12:24
delhage	I'm curious, can we use the F10 shipped rpms instead of setting up according to http://annexia.org/tmp/setup.txt?	12:24
@rwmjones	delhage, yes of course, but there are a few missing from Fedora (not yet reviewed)	12:24
@nirik	are the missing ones needed for this demo?	12:24
@rwmjones	for the full gtk there's like 3 or 4 missing ones	12:24
@rwmjones	yup	12:24
delhage	ok	12:24
@rwmjones	the server is still up, just being a bit slow. I'll keep going anyway	12:24
@rwmjones	Once the 'yum' command has finished, you can compile simple test	12:25
@rwmjones	programs using the cross-compiler easily. For exampl	12:25
@rwmjones	cat > test.c	12:25
@rwmjones	#include <stdio.h>	12:25
@rwmjones	main () { printf ("hello, world!\n"); }	12:25
@rwmjones	(press Ctrl D)	12:25
@rwmjones	i686-pc-mingw32-gcc test.c -o test.exe	12:25
@rwmjones	file test.exe	12:25
@rwmjones	$ file test.exe	12:26
@rwmjones	test.exe: PE32 executable for MS Windows (console) Intel 80386 32-bit	12:26
@nirik	rwmjones: so that exe would run on any win ">" xp ?	12:26
@rwmjones	nirik, yes	12:26
@rwmjones	$ i686-pc-mingw32-nm test.exe | tail	12:26
@rwmjones	00401330 T _main	12:26
@rwmjones	00401130 T _mainCRTStartup	12:26
@rwmjones	00402008 d _p.1598	12:26
@rwmjones	00401570 T _puts	12:26
@rwmjones	004015a0 t _register_frame_ctor	12:26
@rwmjones	00401558 T _signal	12:26
@rwmjones	004050a4 i fthunk	12:26
rahmanangel	n using wine?	12:26
@rwmjones	0040508c i fthunk	12:26
@rwmjones	00405058 i hname	12:26
@rwmjones	00405040 i hname	12:26
@rwmjones	rahmanangel, coming to that :-)	12:26
@rwmjones	i686-pc-mingw32-objdump -p test.exe	12:26
@rwmjones	and finally you can do:	12:26
@rwmjones	./test.exe	12:26
@rwmjones	$ ./test.exe	12:27
@rwmjones	hello, world!	12:27
@rwmjones	$ wine test.exe	12:27
@rwmjones	hello, world!	12:27
@rwmjones	(If you get an error about missing DLLs, read	12:27
@rwmjones	http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MinGW/Configure_wine )	12:27
linuxguru	ok. what's the difference between the two	12:27
@rwmjones	linuxguru, when wine is installed, it installs a linux kernel handler which detects Win32 PE executables and runs wine	12:27
@rwmjones	linuxguru, so the two commands are the same	12:27
@rwmjones	except as you'll see below	12:28
@rwmjones	I guess you can see from that, commands are just the same but	12:28
@rwmjones	preceeded by 'i686-pc-mingw-'. Also if Wine is installed then it adds	12:28
@rwmjones	a special handler to the Linux kernel so you can just run Windows	12:28
@rwmjones	binaries.	12:28
@rwmjones	[Except when that doesn't work for reasons we don't fully understand --	12:28
@rwmjones	but 'wine prog.exe' always works].	12:28
@rwmjones	Back to the Tic-Tac-Toe example	12:28
@rwmjones	http://www.annexia.org/_file/tictactoe-1.0.tar.gz	12:28
@rwmjones	If you've downloaded and unpacked this example, and the 'yum install'	12:28
@rwmjones	has finished, then you should be ready to compile this program which	12:28
@rwmjones	comes from the Gtk tutorial.	12:28
@rwmjones	To compile for Linux, you do:	12:29
@rwmjones	./configure	12:29
@rwmjones	make	12:29
@rwmjones	./ttt	12:29
DiscordianUK	i did that	12:29
@rwmjones	(It's a really stupid demo, so don't even try to play the game :-)	12:29
@rwmjones	Cross-compiling for Windows is just as easy:	12:29
@rwmjones	make clean # cleans up the Linux binary	12:29
DiscordianUK	i tried to play the game	12:29
@rwmjones	mingw32-configure	12:30
@rwmjones	make	12:30
@rwmjones	./ttt.exe	12:30
@rwmjones	that final command runs the game locally using wine	12:30
* nirik finds it pretty slick how transparent that is.		12:30
@rwmjones	If you try the menu Help -> About you should see the Windows look and	12:30
@rwmjones	feel.	12:30
linuxguru	does the configure file modified for this particular thing ?	12:30
@rwmjones	linuxguru, take a look at configure.ac	12:30
@rwmjones	it is IIRC identical	12:31
* rwmjones checks		12:31
@rwmjones	yeah, basically it's the same	12:31
linuxguru	yeah	12:31
@rwmjones	'mingw32-configure' is just a wrapper around configure. It really	12:31
@rwmjones	does: ./configure --host=i686-pc-mingw32	12:31
@rwmjones	plus a few other flags and environment variables.	12:31
@rwmjones	That worked for everyone?	12:31
DiscordianUK	yeah	12:31
@rwmjones	it worked for one person, good!	12:32
* delhage is far behind		12:32
* nirik nods.		12:32
linuxguru	yeah	12:32
@rwmjones	all of this gets archived on the fedora-classroom webpage later, so you can follow it at your leisure	12:32
* delhage nods		12:32
baconfork	I'm almost there	12:32
@rwmjones	but we've got plenty of time so I'll wait a few mins	12:33
@rwmjones	The 'ttt.exe' binary won't run directly on Windows.	12:36
@rwmjones	The reason is that it needs all the Gtk DLLs and Gtk	12:36
@rwmjones	configuration files. But we provide a way to wrap that up easily.	12:36
linuxguru	okay	12:36
@rwmjones	First, for reasons which are obscure / a bug, you will need to install	12:36
@rwmjones	that ttt.exe binary, so do this *as root*:	12:36
@rwmjones	make install	12:37
@rwmjones	# make install	12:37
@rwmjones	make[1]: Entering directory /tmp/tictactoe-1.0'	12:37
@rwmjones	if test -z "/usr/i686-pc-mingw32/sys-root/mingw/bin" ; then /bin/mkdir -p "/usr/i686-pc-mingw32/sys-root/mingw/bin" ; fi	12:37
@rwmjones	/usr/bin/install -c 'ttt.exe' '/usr/i686-pc-mingw32/sys-root/mingw/bin/ttt.exe'	12:37
@rwmjones	make[1]: Nothing to be done for install-data-am'.	12:37
@rwmjones	make[1]: Leaving directory `/tmp/tictactoe-1.0'	12:37
@rwmjones	Then (as non-root again):	12:37
@rwmjones	make installer.exe	12:37
@rwmjones	ls -l installer.exe	12:37
@nirik	if you do a command line exe would that work on windows without needing a bunch of libs? ie, it's only gui libs you need to add?	12:37
@rwmjones	nirik, yes, if it really didn't need any libs at all, eg. zlib	12:38
@rwmjones	if it just made win32 calls	12:38
@nirik	ok, cool. thanks.	12:38
@rwmjones	but almost any non-trivial program, particularly if it comes from the Linux side of the world, will use one of these APIs	12:38
@rwmjones	I'm going to cover that later	12:38
@rwmjones	$ ls -l installer.exe	12:39
@rwmjones	-rw-rw-r-- 1 rjones rjones 12932585 2009-03-08 18:38 installer.exe	12:39
@rwmjones	13MB, as you can see it's quite large, because it includes all of Gtk	12:39
@rwmjones	and because windows doesn't have any packaging system, every app ends up with its own copy of Gtk	12:40
@rwmjones	That gives you a Windows installer that contains everything (program,	12:40
@rwmjones	dependent DLLs, configuration files, desktop icon, menu entry,	12:40
@rwmjones	uninstaller). You can copy that file onto a Windows box and run it.	12:40
@rwmjones	Anyone got any questions about the practical part?	12:41
@herlo	?	12:41
npmccallum	how is the installer different than simply doing a static build?	12:42
@rwmjones	npmccallum, good question!	12:42
dimion	? can it link statical	12:42
npmccallum	i.e. why not just do a static build, if you are bundling gtk2, etc	12:42
@rwmjones	the installer is a windows installer, so you can also put other stuff in there, like license files, more menu items and so on	12:42
@herlo	yeah, it seems I've tried to install the mingw32-gtk2 but yum can't find it. I assume that's why my make after the mingw32-configure failed?	12:42
@rwmjones	now, several people on the list have asked us to build mingw32-foo-static libraries	12:42
@rwmjones	and although originally everything was a DLL, we now also have some -static subpackages	12:43
@rwmjones	although not yet for Gtk	12:43
AleBaStr	can it be done without make install (in case i have no root password/sudo)?	12:43
@rwmjones	AleBaStr, not at the moment, but that is just a bug in mingw32-nsiswrapper	12:43
npmccallum	and that installer is using nsis?	12:43
@rwmjones	herlo, you followed the instructions http://annexia.org/tmp/setup.txt ?	12:43
@rwmjones	npmccallum, yes	12:44
@herlo	yes	12:44
@herlo	rwmjones: except when I go to your http://homes.merjis.com/~rich/mingw/	12:44
@rwmjones	herlo, it's probably because that webserver is being killed with downloads at the moment	12:44
@herlo	yeah, kind of figured, I'll keep trying	12:44
* herlo likes this stuff so far though..		12:44
linuxguru	how can one customize the installer ?	12:45
npmccallum	rwmjones: is the installer.exe target transparently added to any makefile when using the normal autotools setup and mingw32-configure ?	12:45
@rwmjones	npmccallum, as the name suggests, nsiswrapper is a wrapper which generates the script used by nsis	12:45
@rwmjones	npmccallum, see Makefile.am	12:45
npmccallum	k	12:45
@rwmjones	linuxguru, yes, do:	12:45
@rwmjones	linuxguru, man nsiswrapper is your best bet actually	12:45
@rwmjones	npmccallum, in case it's not obvious, scroll down a bit in Makefile.am	12:46
-!- rwmjones changed the topic of #fedora-classroom to: Using the Windows cross-compiler: Crossreport		12:46
@rwmjones	A final point about porting your own programs. Use our	12:46
@rwmjones	'mingw32-crossreport' tool to help you. You just run it on an	12:46
@rwmjones	existing Linux (C/C++) compiled program, and it will tell you where	12:46
@rwmjones	potential problems might arise.	12:46
@rwmjones	mingw32-crossreport /usr/bin/eog | less	12:46
linuxguru	okay	12:47
npmccallum	rwmjones: this is really slick, you rock	12:47
baconfork	got it working good deal	12:47
@rwmjones	for people who don't have this installed, look at the output of that command here:	12:47
@rwmjones	http://www.annexia.org/tmp/eog.txt	12:47
* npmccallum wonders about building libraries...		12:48
@rwmjones	npmccallum, you'll prob want to look at some examples here:	12:48
@rwmjones	http://hg.et.redhat.com/cgi-bin/hg-misc.cgi/fedora-mingw--devel/file/tip	12:49
@rwmjones	so you can see from the report, it highlight potential problems you might have when porting a program to Windows	12:49
npmccallum	rwmjones: and that will allow for development *on windows* using the dll?	12:49
@rwmjones	in that case, eog = Eye Of Gnome	12:49
@rwmjones	npmccallum, yes and mostly yes ... with C++ we are still resolving problems with exception handling across libraries compiled by different compilers	12:50
@rwmjones	npmccallum, for plain C you should be OK	12:50
npmccallum	ok	12:50
-!- rwmjones changed the topic of #fedora-classroom to: Using the Windows cross-compiler: Future directions (Win64, Mac OS X ?)		12:50
@rwmjones	Future directions: We have a working Win64 cross-compiler thanks to	12:51
@rwmjones	the excellent work of the mingw-w64 upstream project. We haven't	12:51
@rwmjones	cross-compiled any libraries for Win64 yet, but it's something we're	12:51
@rwmjones	looking at for a future Fedora.	12:51
@rwmjones	You can download the Win64 cross-compiler from the temporary repository, when it starts working again ..	12:52
@rwmjones	mingw64-gcc	12:52
@rwmjones	We have a sort-of-working Darwin (Mac OS X) cross-compiler. There are	12:52
@rwmjones	various issues which I summarised here:	12:52
@rwmjones	https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2009-March/msg00397.html	12:52
@nirik	rwmjones: do 32bit exe's typically run on 64 bit windows? or it's only 64bit for those?	12:52
DiscordianUK	Right	12:53
@rwmjones	nirik, yes, but they run in a sandbox/emulator called WoW	12:53
@nirik	ha. I think of something different when I see WoW. ;) ok.	12:53
DiscordianUK	So the idea is that Fedora can be a windows dev env?	12:53
@rwmjones	practically yes they do run fine, but for the usual reasons it's better to have 64 bit executables	12:53
@rwmjones	DiscordianUK, that would be great	12:53
@rwmjones	Anyway, Win64 and Mac OS X are for future versions of Fedora. For Fedora 11 we're concentrating on the Win32 cross-compiler and about 35 libraries.	12:54
DiscordianUK	I like the idea of crossplatform binaries	12:55
@rwmjones	http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Windows_cross_compiler#Current_status	12:55
-!- rwmjones changed the topic of #fedora-classroom to: Using the Windows cross-compiler: How to get involved		12:55
@rwmjones	We *always* need volunteers:	12:55
@rwmjones	- people who know about intimate details of compiling on Windows and OS X	12:55
@rwmjones	- Fedora packagers	12:55
@rwmjones	- Fedora reviewers	12:55
@rwmjones	- testers	12:55
@rwmjones	- developers who want to cross-compile their own apps	12:55
@rwmjones	- developers who want to maintain Win32 ports of their own libraries	12:55
@rwmjones	Web site: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MinGW	12:56
@rwmjones	Mailing list: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/fedora-mingw	12:56
@rwmjones	IRC: #fedora-mingw on FreeNode	12:56
@rwmjones	Status: http://www.annexia.org/fedora_mingw	12:56
@rwmjones	Any questions?	12:56
DiscordianUK	How does cygwin fit into this? (sorry someone had to ask)	12:57
@rwmjones	Cygwin is quite a different approach. They are emulating POSIX, so you can run Unix programs unchanged (just recompile from the same sources).	12:57
@rwmjones	For Fedora MinGW we do patch the sources, sometimes quite a bit.	12:58
@rwmjones	we actively port to Windows APIs (eg Win32 APIs)	12:58
DiscordianUK	it'd be nice if that was true about cygwin	12:58
@rwmjones	another difference is that we are in Fedora, and we are a cross-compiler	12:58
DiscordianUK	but there are gotchas	12:58
@rwmjones	another difference is the licensing	12:58
linuxguru	how about modifications to my app. un-install and re-install	12:58
linuxguru	?*	12:59
@rwmjones	linuxguru, not sure I understand?	12:59
linuxguru	suppose i compiled and installed a app in windows and then i change some things and compiled again get a installer.exe i have to un-install the previous one	12:59
@nirik	Q: is there any indication to a windows user running one of these exe's how it was produced? ie, is there a way to note that this was made on linux host via free software? or is that too hard or too close to anoying advertising.	12:59
@rwmjones	linuxguru, right, yes you do	12:59
@herlo	What are the legal issues with compiling for Windows? I'm concerned that if I create something in Fedora using Windows libraries I'll get into a sticky situation... do you have any thoughts/insight?	13:00
@rwmjones	linuxguru, we mainly test using Wine, and use Windows only for very final testing	13:00
DiscordianUK	cygwin doesn't for example grok fork vs vfork	13:00
@rwmjones	nirik, I think if you take apart the executable you could tell ... of course you can always add something in the Help or About box	13:00
@rwmjones	herlo, there are no legal issues that I'm aware of. This is 100% independently produced, open source software.	13:01
npmccallum	herlo: if you are building against win32api it is covered by the base os library provision in the GPL	13:01
delhage	you already anticipated this question in the beginning: "why are we helping Windows users"? ;)	13:01
@herlo	so there aren't any proprietary licenses to concern myself with?	13:01
@rwmjones	herlo, no ... 100% independently made, 100% open source chain	13:02
@herlo	very nice	13:02
@rwmjones	delhage, well, I think there are two arguments here:	13:02
@rwmjones	(1) a user who is using all proprietary apps on Windows, if we give them just one free app, then that gives them just a little bit of freedom that they didn't have before	13:02
@rwmjones	practically, that can be freedom from proprietary lock in that many commercial Windows apps use to control the user	13:03
@rwmjones	(2) no user is seriously going to change to using Linux in one day, because they'd have to change all their apps. However that equation changes as soon as all the apps they're using are free software.	13:03
@rwmjones	because they can then change the underlying OS very easily, probably without noticing	13:04
@rwmjones	so we want to switch people away from proprietary formats and apps that lock you in first	13:04
@rwmjones	'course it'd be great if none of this was necessary and no one used windows, but that's not the real world unfortunately	13:04
DiscordianUK	Wha	13:04
@rwmjones	for developers, it's also a way to get 10x the potential audience for your software	13:05
* nirik has a few more Q's, but will wait until others finish asking. ;)		13:05
AleBaStr	Q: is it working with cmake/other alternative build systems?	13:05
DiscordianUK	That' s the bonus rwmjones	13:05
@rwmjones	if I missed any question, just repost it	13:05
delhage	ok, I'm not sure I agree but thanks for explaining	13:05
@rwmjones	AleBaStr, yes cmake is OK, others are troublesome but we've done pretty much all of the common build systems	13:05
@rwmjones	AleBaStr, as in, there will be at least one package in the set that uses a build system and that I've laboured away to make it work as a cross-compiler	13:06
AleBaStr	OK means installer works too?)	13:06
@rwmjones	eg for bjam, there is mingw32-boost	13:06
* npmccallum just found out mingw32-crossreport works on libraries too :)		13:06
@rwmjones	AleBaStr, usually the installer is independent of the build system, because you can run mingw32-nsiswrapper by hand	13:07
@rwmjones	npmccallum, yes, mingw32-crossreport is just a perl script that wraps around objdump	13:07
npmccallum	rwmjones: I figured as much	13:08
@nirik	Q: you said you support EL-5... are there any issues there? or should we expect the same setup/support as in fedora, just older libs? or same versions?	13:08
* AleBaStr thinks about some macros for cpack to automate this		13:08
@rwmjones	nirik, it's pretty much the same level, certainly right now there are all the same packages. lfarkas is mainly supporting that.	13:08
@rwmjones	I should say we also support Qt	13:08
@nirik	ok, cool.	13:09
@rwmjones	it's not in fedora yet, but there is a qt-win package in the temp repo	13:09
@rwmjones	mingw32-qt-win IIRC	13:09
@rwmjones	my poor webserver is totally fscked	13:12
DiscordianUK	awww	13:12
@rwmjones	any more questions?	13:12
linuxguru	i guess you should think of putting the repository on fedorapeople as nirik suggested earlier :)	13:13
@rwmjones	yes, I think that's a good idea	13:13
@nirik	is there any repo of rebuilt free software made with mingw? ie, for windows users who want to run a popular opensource app?	13:13
@nirik	I guess it could be hard to do for all fedora packaged applications.	13:13
AleBaStr	what about command like "make installer.nsi", for customizing script?	13:13
npmccallum	what is the likelihood of running into bugs in wine that don't exist in windows?	13:13
@rwmjones	nirik, not really no. We didn't want to get into that game because it's lots of work tracking upstream releases. We want upstream to use our tools to provide the software for windows themselves.	13:14
@rwmjones	AleBaStr, certainly it's something that can be done. The code in that Makefile.am is just a suggestion.	13:14
@nirik	rwmjones: sure, understood. Wonder if it could be automated... but yeah, thats getting complex fast. ;(	13:14
@rwmjones	npmccallum, yes, I've hit one of those so far, when doing inkscape	13:14
@rwmjones	so we have ported inkscape using these tools	13:15
@rwmjones	I've got some pretty screengrabs ...	13:15
@rwmjones	http://camltastic.blogspot.com/2008/10/mingw-inkscape-cross-compiled-from.html	13:15
@rwmjones	in fact, the slide I sent out at the beginning was constructed using mingw32-inkscape on wine	13:16
@nirik	rwmjones: want to repaste your lines about where you are looking for help to wrap things up?	13:16
@rwmjones	this one: http://www.annexia.org/tmp/02-win-api.pdf	13:16
@rwmjones	We *always* need volunteers:	13:16
@rwmjones	- people who know about intimate details of compiling on Windows and OS X	13:16
@rwmjones	- Fedora packagers	13:16
@rwmjones	- Fedora reviewers	13:16
@rwmjones	- testers	13:16
@rwmjones	- developers who want to cross-compile their own apps	13:16
@rwmjones	- developers who want to maintain Win32 ports of their own libraries	13:16
@rwmjones	Web site: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MinGW	13:16
@rwmjones	Mailing list: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/fedora-mingw	13:16
@rwmjones	IRC: #fedora-mingw on FreeNode	13:16
@rwmjones	Status: http://www.annexia.org/fedora_mingw	13:16
@rwmjones	ok thanks everyone, have a great morning/evening	13:17
@nirik	excellent. Thanks for the informative talk rwmjones !	13:17
AleBaStr	thanks)	13:17
DiscordianUK	thank you rwmjones	13:17
-!- nirik changed the topic of #fedora-classroom to: Fedora IRC Classroom - Next Class at 20:45UTC - See Classroom for todays class schedule and more info.		13:18
linuxguru	yeah thank you rwmjones , it was a great session. :)	13:18
zer0c00l	thanks rwmjones	13:18

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