SIGs/Education/Meetings/2009-01-14

Fedora Education Spin Meeting 14th January 2009

Meeting Agenda

1. Current Status & TODO List
2. Test Plans & User Feedback
3. Marketing
4. Artwork
5. Documentation

Meeting Minutes

* Loaded log from Wed Jan 14 16:11:57 2009
sdziallas	okay, folks, my watch says it's time... let's get this party started!
sdziallas	the agenda is here: <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Education/Meetings/2009-01-14">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Education/Meetings/2009-01-14</a>
sdziallas	now how about a quick roll call? who's here?
rdieter	yo
sdziallas	tomeu: :)
* hanthana here
tomeu	hi all
sdziallas	Hi! (just in time for the roll call ;)
hanthana	hi tomeu :)
sdziallas	well, sounds like we could just move on following the agenda...: CURRENT STATUS
sdziallas	so let me put it this way: some preliminary work on an education spin has been done, here's the wiki page for it: SIGs/Education/EducationLive
hanthana	appreciate if we can introduce, at list FAS name
hanthana	;)
rdieter	good idea, Rex Dieter, rdieter
tomeu	I'm a sugar developer, Tomeu Vizoso, tomeu
* sdziallas was too quick - as usual. ;)
hanthana	Danishka Navin, fas: snavin
hanthana	sdziallas: no worries ;)
sdziallas	you should know me: Sebastian Dziallas, sdz
hanthana	ha ha
sdziallas	okay?
hanthana	any other attendees?
hanthana	sdziallas: go ahead
* ongolaBoy is just a visitor interested in education matters...
sdziallas	:)
rdieter	ongolaBoy: welcome
hanthana	hi ongolaBoy :)
sdziallas	there we go! as I said, we've started. there's a table in the wiki, listing some applications, I've drafted some kickstart files up, and well:
rdieter	how'd xcfe vs kde go?  need more beer to decide?
sdziallas	I've currently two builds around here, one is KDE-based, the other one uses XFCE.
sdziallas	I think that's the decision we need to make first. and now.
sdziallas	To give you a quick overview:
sdziallas	The KDE spin currently only includes Qt4-based software, since I wouldn't want kdelibs3 being pulled in. It includes a number of apps, but not all (yet) - e.g., I didn't add krita (or another Gimp alternative), yet.
sdziallas	It's size is right now 636 MB.
sdziallas	The XFCE one is pretty much complete, includes some other apps, due to its GTK-nature. But you get at least kdeedu on both. That spin has right now a size of 666 MB, even though I've one or two ideas for further apps.
sdziallas	I feel it's clear enough that we're not going to release both.
sdziallas	So what we need is a decision, on how we're going to proceed.
hanthana	we need at least 20MB for re-spin for other locales, so xfce is my choice
hanthana	coz, xfce spin contain more apps than kde spin
sdziallas	As I said, I can work with both. I just need some feedback here. I'm personally using partly XFCE on the OLPC, but this doesn't prevent me from using KDE or something else (as Sugar ;).
ongolaBoy	for which people do you intend to release this spin ?
rdieter	ongolaBoy: good question, we don't have a clearly targetted audience, mostly for lack of feedback (ie, not sure what people want/need).
sdziallas	It's for students, but also for teachers, pupils and schools - though, we're not going to put gcompris on it, because its intended for pupils under our target age. I'd tend to talk about something like an age of 12+...
* rdieter is indifferent wrt xfce vs kde, might be interesting to explore something new/different with xfce.
ongolaBoy	personaly i prefer xfce because of the low machines that i have in my environment...
sdziallas	rdieter is right there: in the past, we've been doing what we thought would fit people's needs best. but due to a lack of feedback, it turned out, that it was not always the best...
ongolaBoy	but i suggest you to release what you, the developpers, want to do
sdziallas	yeah, that's also why I want us to talk about it. but the better we can fit people's needs, the better for us, as developers, because our stuff becomes - hopefully - more used ;)
sdziallas	so I think... we'll have a closer look at the xfce spin?!
hanthana	so, guys lets fix xfce as the spin
ongolaBoy	so, if i was able to vote ;) i prefer xfce
hanthana	+1 xfce
sdziallas	okay, I'll take a note and update the spin's page in the wiki with an updated list.
tomeu	about sugar, better wait until there's better support for unmodified apps
tomeu	next release, hopefully
rdieter	there's already a sugar spin anyway, isn't there?
sdziallas	tomeu: yeah, in the meantime, we have the sugar spin (which I hope to get approved soonish, too)
sdziallas	heh. *hint* :)
rdieter	that said, perhaps there could be merging here
tomeu	yeah, I guess it will be very difficult to have a single spin good for all ages
sdziallas	yep, that's true. we can't target everyone without... bloating it for someone.
sdziallas	(neither sugar nor kdeedu is imo bloat, but I'd like to select apps, too)
tomeu	you can keep focusing now on 12+ and do something else later for <12
ongolaBoy	+1 for +12
sdziallas	yeah, I feel we should consider something on behalf of how those spins will be working together (or who they're targetting)...
sdziallas	I'll make another note on that in the wiki / meeting summary.
sdziallas	does anybody want to add something to the current state or can we move on?
sdziallas	I'll take that as a no ;)
sdziallas	Well, what needs to be done?
sdziallas	The spin needs some polishing: I'll update the kickstart file and will - once it's somehow ready - submit it to the Spin SIG for technical approval.
sdziallas	Next steps are then approval from the board and finally from rel-eng. Those are the steps... concerning policy.
hanthana	sdziallas: before that shall we do a small user testing?
sdziallas	What else do we need? Imo, feedback, feedback, and still more feedback...
hanthana	by giving the spin to selected people [students and teachers]
sdziallas	(which brings us also to point 03 on the list - they go hand in hand, I think)
sdziallas	hanthana: I think it might be a good idea - not necessarily before submitting it to Spin SIG, but I think such a testing can't be too bad. So a +1 here.
ongolaBoy	'hand in hand' should be the fastest way to have feedback from users
hanthana	i can help for that
sdziallas	We might think about a fitting time (frame) here, but we can run such a test in parallel.
hanthana	as i have contacts with local Edu officials
sdziallas	Yeah, ongolaBoy!
sdziallas	hanthana: that would be great!
hanthana	lets fix a time frame for 1st feedback
* ongolaBoy has a low internet connection :(
sdziallas	Btw: For any inofficial - pre-release spins - we need a possibility to host it somewhere. (If you don't want to build it everytime on your own)
* sdziallas checks F11 schedule
hanthana	i mean, lets give them one week for testing/playing
sdziallas	hanthana: a week or so would be fine with me, maybe two, but not more, since we also need some time for the results and working on it...
hanthana	yeah
hanthana	sdziallas: lets ready for one week,
sdziallas	okay!
hanthana	they might take another week if they want
sdziallas	(another note for me and the wiki ;)
sdziallas	sounds good to me.
sdziallas	next question: when do we want to start this? Here's the schedule for F11: Releases/11/Schedule
sdziallas	Feature freeze is at the beginning of march.
hanthana	2009-04-14 - Final Development Freeze
sdziallas	I need some time for preparing the kickstart, then it needs to be built. And then, we let the testing run for a week or so, right?
hanthana	lets target march
sdziallas	for testing? or for having something really working ready?
hanthana	really working ready
sdziallas	(this doesn't prevent us from working on pre-release stuff, either.)
hanthana	sdziallas: i would like to start testing before February
sdziallas	any objections or additions here? we might need to use a F10 base then for testing; Rawhide might be too buggy.
ongolaBoy	the 'final' release should rolled out with f11 right ?
rdieter	I can help host a spin
hanthana	yes
hanthana	rdieter: cool
rdieter	for testing, that is.
sdziallas	rdieter: that would be great :)
hanthana	i am also trying to locally host
hanthana	here we have schooNet, and University Network
rdieter	I can be a torrent seed/tracker is what I had in mind.
rdieter	hanthana: you?
rdieter	as a side note, I finally dropped the f9-edu preview spin that had been hosted for quite awhile, nope nobody minds...
hanthana	rdieter: i am planning for direct download and hand to hand distribution
rdieter	hanthana: cool, when/if that's available, let me know, and I'll add it as a web seed for the torrent
sdziallas	rdieter: nope... that's more than okay ;)
sdziallas	okay, this sounds like a good plan (having both)!
hanthana	tomorrow i am talking to edu officials, regarding hosting and distributing of the test copy
hanthana	and we need a creating a bugzilla component - ToDo
hanthana	btw, sdziallas when we are going to start the testing?
hanthana	lets fix a time duration now
* sdziallas hasn' checked out yet, how to do this; but I'll make a note regarding bugzilla, to look into this
rdieter	I would venture that spin approval is a prereq for any bz component creation, but I could be wrong
sdziallas	well... I don't need a long time for preparing the kickstart file (so somebody wants further apps on it - *that* is the time to suggest them, to get 'em tested) ;)
sdziallas	*if somebody wants further apps...
hanthana	shall we start from 25th Jan to 7th Feb
sdziallas	rdieter: might be true. if necessary, I can ask around ;)
sdziallas	hanthana: I'm fine with that.
sdziallas	leaves us enough time to make sure we're not distributing bad stuff to the testers and is still way enough before march.
sdziallas	+1
sdziallas	any objections? if not, I'll add that to the wiki after the meeting, too.
* ongolaBoy has nothing to add ...
sdziallas	okey dokey. (just want to make sure everybody's happy)
hanthana	heh
sdziallas	what else there is left? documentation? an artwork?
hanthana	04. Marketting plan for spreading fedora edu spin
sdziallas	marketing is good. :)
hanthana	Marketting plan for spreading fedora edu spin
hanthana	workshops, seminas, installFest, etc
hanthana	Fedora edu - tshirt for those who working for the project ;)
sdziallas	w00t!
hanthana	i do ..... workshops, seminas, installFest, etc
ongolaBoy	concerning Artwork, is it possible to ask to Nicu and his friends to create special stuff off edu
sdziallas	I've... submitted a request for artwork some time ago:
ongolaBoy	but i don't know how you communicate between team in general ...
rdieter	most definietely possible, couldn't hurt to ask the fedora-art team, they're usually quite good at delivering
sdziallas	Artwork/DesignService#Fedora_Education
sdziallas	but that was ages ago - I recieved a wiki banner from tatica, but I didn't add it yet, since I felt... it would need to be discussed with her / the artwork team first.
hanthana	sdziallas: we need a poster/ Boucher
sdziallas	I also asked for special artwork for our spin, such as a wallpaper, but: work in progress, afaik ;)
sdziallas	yeah!
rdieter	would probably help if someone volunteered to lead the art effort, and potentially poke/prod/bribe them
sdziallas	yeah, well, I can go and update the request quite a bit... I'm a bit lazy about poking 'em, but I could do that. (hopefully, I don't forget) ;)
* sdziallas makes another mental note.
sdziallas	okay? anything else on behalf of artwork? nope?...
ongolaBoy	sdziallas:at least for artwork, update your request by replacing kde by xfce...
hanthana	sdziallas: 'adding a wallpaper ' grate idea!!
sdziallas	ongolaBoy, yeah; will do. it's quite outdated there, I know...
sdziallas	okay :)
hanthana	do we need CD/DVD cover?
hanthana	stickers?
sdziallas	maybe later on, yeah. and some flyers couldn't hurt either. But partly general Fedora stuff should be fine, too.
* sdziallas loves our t-shirts :)
hanthana	we can add Edu spin promotion with F11 release
sdziallas	(for which we need rel-engs approval, but I'll take care of that)
sdziallas	okay? can we move on here? (sorry if I'm rushing a bit)
ongolaBoy	.
hanthana	ok
hanthana	next!
hanthana	Documentation:
hanthana	HowTos related to the Fedora Education Spin.
hanthana	for an example;
hanthana	'How to install Edu Spin to the system?'
hanthana	'How to install other software using Fedora repo?'
sdziallas	the latter one should be more or less explained somewhere (I'd bet there are already howtos for this), but the first or 'which additional educational software can I get?' or 'what does this app offer me?' would be other examples...
sdziallas	this one could be worked out together with questions we might recieve from testing...
hanthana	yes
hanthana	good idea
ongolaBoy	'what package can i use for algebra,geometry,electronics,...?'
sdziallas	exactly!
hanthana	ongolaBoy: +1
sdziallas	okay... anything else you want to discuss?
hanthana	fixing dates for next meeting?
sdziallas	well, that's our last task, before adjourning the meeting, I think ;)
sdziallas	so if there's nothing more to discuss, I thing we can head for that, yeah.
hanthana	'getting more ppl ' we can achieve this during testing period
sdziallas	yep, that's marketing, testing, all that...
hanthana	we have to meet before starting the testing session
sdziallas	honestly, I'm not sure, yet: next week would be the 21st. I think we should talk again before beginning the testing, touh.
sdziallas	*though
sdziallas	yep.
hanthana	ok 21st fine for me
hanthana	rdieter: ongolaBoy: sdziallas: any idea?
sdziallas	well, let's note the 21st for the moment. I cannot promise that it will work for me, yet, but I think it should.
sdziallas	(if the others agree)
ongolaBoy	hum... i can't give a date because i'm not very available ;choose date that fit to you
ongolaBoy	any date i mean
sdziallas	okay? 21st for now?
ongolaBoy	.
sdziallas	there we go. we might reconsider it again, if it doesn't fit for anybody. well... is that it? are we done?
hanthana	ok
sdziallas	thanks everybody for attending!
sdziallas	:)
hanthana	thanks all!
hanthana	lets make a good spin for the community!!
ongolaBoy	i appreciate your efforts
sdziallas	yeah! :)
sdziallas	so I'd say...
sdziallas	5
sdziallas	4
sdziallas	3
sdziallas	2
sdziallas	1
sdziallas	1/2
ongolaBoy	:D
hanthana	.009
hanthana	.0009
sdziallas	= meeting adjourned =

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