ReleaseEngineering/Meetings/2007-apr-23

Fedora Release Engineering Meeting :: Monday 23-APR-07

Testing Status

• woods:
• It's good, although it's regressed a teeny bit since apr. 20 - mostly just some useless messages in %post from one of the packages
• the major install problem with the RC tree is doing ftp/http installs
• kickstarts work fine (which is how we do our testing)
• people doing manual testing report that doing one by hand doesn't work
• doing some additional ftp/http installs by hand
• there's a couple of mysteriously crashed installs that seem to each have a mdraid install previous to them
• jeremy:
• actually, for tree existence first -- we've currently got an rc of the tree and I'm almost done creating the set of live images (i386, i386 kde and x86_64)
• have installs going via ftp and http started from pxe :-/
• ftp/http problem is booted off of media, not with just pxe
• notting:
• anaconda isn't handling ftp errors very well1, but the installer is starting

e1000 bug

• davej switched to linus' latest tree that reverted that specific patch

The Freeze Question

• jwb: people keep asking if things are frozen--what exactly _should_ we be telling people?
• jeremy:
• the freeze is more at how the buildsystem does things than cvs itself
• having people concentrate on bugfixing leading up to the final freeze (+ branch) is the right answer
• branching is good and bad... it lets people keep doing stuff, but it distracts from spending time on polishing the release and it also leads to a need for doubel commits for a while
• wwoods: everything is frozen. Only updates that fix actual bugs (like stuff that people have filed in bugzilla) should go in

Tagging & Release Building

• jeremy:
• I'm keeping a list of things we might want if we do another test4 respin at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JeremyKatz/F7Test4
• having a solid test4 is sorely needed and if we don't take the time now, we'll pay when it comes to the final release
• notting: probably should tag the totem package hadess sent

Perl Multilib

• perl multilib problem is still breaking deps
• breaking out libperl is the solution and make sure perl depends on libperl
• may slip schedule a little, but we will do best we can and should not be more than a few days (less than a week)
• warren will make the perl changes

Release Status

• make the perl changes today, tomorrow we have a new rawhide and a new RC tree
• blocker type issues are: net installs from media, broken deps due to perl
• need a day or two to test the Test4 RC
• hope to start the push process late tomorrow or wednesday, available either later in the day thursday (craziness!) or friday
• moving pygobject2 to test4
• http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JeremyKatz/F7Test4

Icon/theme changes

• jeremy: decision went more like "is echo ready?" "nope, don't think so." "let's go back to bluecurve then. "but that's boring. let's go to something closer to the upstream default. mist it is!"
• echo is still included. just not default
• gnome is the upstream default... mist is the same icons but different palette
• notting: (Q): how is a icon theme change not an interface change post-freeze? :)
• jeremy: (A): we explicitly said from the beginning that if coverage wasn't sufficient, we'd change.

IRC Transcript

jeremy	so, release team meeting time	<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
jeremy	who's here?	<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
* wwoods here!		<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
* jwb here		<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
wwoods	haven't heard from f13 today.. maybe just because he's on the west siieeeede?	<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
yungjenlin	me ?	<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
* notting is here		<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
yungjenlin	yungjenlin here!	<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
* jwb really needs to learn how to read a fscking clock		<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
warren	jeremy, eh?  it wasn't 2pm?	<a href="#t13:08" class="time">13:08</a>
jeremy	poelcat: ping?	<a href="#t13:08" class="time">13:08</a>
jwb	warren, no	<a href="#t13:09" class="time">13:09</a>
wwoods	I have 1pm on my calendar, although it's possible I'm wrong	<a href="#t13:09" class="time">13:09</a>
jeremy	warren: I just went back to look at the mail and it said 1 pm	<a href="#t13:09" class="time">13:09</a>
jeremy	and based on the log, we started at 1:03 pm last week	<a href="#t13:09" class="time">13:09</a>
jeremy	so, I think the big thing is test4 status	<a href="#t13:10" class="time">13:10</a>
jeremy	wwoods: how's testing looking?	<a href="#t13:10" class="time">13:10</a>
wwoods	okay, so where do we start.. test4 status?	<a href="#t13:10" class="time">13:10</a>
wwoods	yeah	<a href="#t13:10" class="time">13:10</a>
warren	Are we respinning test4 again?	<a href="#t13:11" class="time">13:11</a>
wwoods	It's good, although it's regressed a teeny bit since apr. 20 - mostly just some useless messages in %post from one of the packages	<a href="#t13:11" class="time">13:11</a>
jeremy	actually, for tree existence first --  we've currently got an rc of the tree and I'm almost done creating the set of live images (i386, i386 kde and x86_64)	<a href="#t13:11" class="time">13:11</a>
jeremy	warren: depends on how things look	<a href="#t13:12" class="time">13:12</a>
wwoods	the major install problem with the RC tree is doing ftp/http installs	<a href="#t13:12" class="time">13:12</a>
wwoods	kickstarts work fine (which is how we do our testing)	<a href="#t13:12" class="time">13:12</a>
jeremy	seems ... important to have working	<a href="#t13:12" class="time">13:12</a>
wwoods	but people doing manual testing report that doing one by hand doesn't work	<a href="#t13:12" class="time">13:12</a>
wwoods	IIRC clumens had a fix already?	<a href="#t13:12" class="time">13:12</a>
jeremy	he does have a fix, but I wasn't 100% certain that we were triggering that case	<a href="#t13:13" class="time">13:13</a>
wwoods	how can we be sure? want me to do a couple ftp/http installs by hand?	<a href="#t13:13" class="time">13:13</a>
jeremy	I'm not quite clear on what the failure case is, though... I now have installs going via ftp and http started from pxe :-/	<a href="#t13:13" class="time">13:13</a>
jeremy	wwoods: yeah, would be good to get it narrowed down	<a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a>
wwoods	I'll see what I can do	<a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a>
notting	rawhide 'good enough' for testing that?	<a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a>
wwoods	rawhide's fine	<a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a>
jeremy	notting: should be	<a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a>
jeremy	maybe something about either boot.iso or starting from the rescue cd that causes it to blow up?	<a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a>
wwoods	jeremy: oh wait - the reports involved starting from media? interesting	<a href="#t13:15" class="time">13:15</a>
jeremy	wwoods: I don't know if they did or not.  I'm just going for straws since it looks like it's working for me in the installs I just started	<a href="#t13:15" class="time">13:15</a>
jeremy	also, have we tried media and hard drive installs?	<a href="#t13:15" class="time">13:15</a>
wwoods	I'm going to be doing media installs today, now that we have a good RC tree	<a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a>
wwoods	err good RC images	<a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a>
jeremy	k	<a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a>
wwoods	if anyone wants to split the load with me (i.e. take an arch) lemme knwo	<a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a>
wwoods	the doom-o-meter is running at around 15%, mostly because Everything installs take so damn long	<a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a>
wwoods	the watchdog reboots them before they finish	<a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a>
jeremy	sweet!	<a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a>
* notting fires off ftp		<a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a>
* jwb really wants to see the doom-o-meter		<a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a>
jeremy	ftp/http problem is booted off of media, not with just pxe	<a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a>
wwoods	there's a couple of mysteriously crashed installs that seem to each have a mdraid install previous to them	<a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a>
wwoods	jwb: unfortunately I haven't actually created it yet	<a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a>
jwb	get on it	<a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a>
jwb	;)	<a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a>
notting	wow	<a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a>
wwoods	I gotta find an art person to make me a nice fuel gauge that goes from [thumbs up] to [skull]	<a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a>
wwoods	heh	<a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a>
notting	anaconda isn't handling ftp errors very weel	<a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a>
notting	but the installer is starting	<a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a>
jeremy	I think the "booted off of cd, doing net install" case is probably pretty important to have working with test4 :-/	<a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a>
wwoods	indeed	<a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a>
warren	jeremy, where is the RC tree?	<a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a>
notting	jeremy: this is with boot.iso,not d1	<a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a>
* wwoods doing x86_64 boot.iso		<a href="#t13:22" class="time">13:22</a>
poelcat	jeremy: i'm here... sorry, at another meeting	<a href="#t13:22" class="time">13:22</a>
notting	jeremy: ftp *seems* to be working. checking deps now	<a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a>
wwoods	that's weird - I thought http usually fetched minstg2.img	<a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a>
wwoods	anyway, my http install seems OK so far	<a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a>
jeremy	wwoods: depends on how much memory you have	<a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a>
notting	although it claims that it couldn't find comps for extras	<a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a>
* jwb blames notting		<a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a>
jwb	oh wait...	<a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a>
jwb	;0	<a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a>
jwb	so while everyone is off installing... is there anything else to discuss?	<a href="#t13:25" class="time">13:25</a>
jeremy	I don't think so	<a href="#t13:26" class="time">13:26</a>
jwb	davej, for the e1000 bug... did you just switch to linus' latest tree that reverted that specific patch?	<a href="#t13:26" class="time">13:26</a>
wwoods	if this turns out to be broken we might have to respin for it	<a href="#t13:26" class="time">13:26</a>
jwb	davej, or is rawhide still at fc6 e1000?	<a href="#t13:26" class="time">13:26</a>
wwoods	which would give us an opportunity to pull in some other fixes	<a href="#t13:26" class="time">13:26</a>
jwb	jeremy, wwoods: freeze question...	<a href="#t13:27" class="time">13:27</a>
jeremy	jwb: shoot	<a href="#t13:27" class="time">13:27</a>
jwb	people keep asking if things are frozen.  i lie and tell them yes in the hopes that it provides a bit more stability for Everything	<a href="#t13:27" class="time">13:27</a>
jwb	what exactly _should_ we be telling people?	<a href="#t13:27" class="time">13:27</a>
jeremy	jwb: probably just that	<a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a>
jwb	jeremy, then tell rdieter_away to stop catching me in my lies! ;)	<a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a>
jeremy	jwb: heh	<a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a>
jwb	seriously though... once CVS is merged, extras _will_ be frozen, yes?	<a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a>
warren	jwb, I haven't seen e1000 lockups in a while now.  You?	<a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a>
jwb	warren, nope.  i'm just wondering which fix davej did	<a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a>
jeremy	jwb: the freeze is more at how the buildsystem does things than cvs itself	<a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a>
jwb	jeremy, yes sorry.  s/CVS/koji	<a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a>
jeremy	jwb: that's part of the whole discussion we had last week about when to branch also	<a href="#t13:32" class="time">13:32</a>
* jwb will have to go re-read that		<a href="#t13:32" class="time">13:32</a>
jeremy	right now, though, having people concentrate on bugfixing leading up to the final freeze (+ branch) is the right answer	<a href="#t13:32" class="time">13:32</a>
jwb	summary?	<a href="#t13:32" class="time">13:32</a>
jwb	k	<a href="#t13:32" class="time">13:32</a>
wwoods	Yes, everything is frozen. Only updates that fix actual bugs (like stuff that people have filed in bugzilla) should go in	<a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a>
jeremy	cvs branching is good and bad... it lets people keep doing stuff, but it distracts from spending time on polishing the release and it also leads to a need for doubel commits for a while	<a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a>
jeremy	that's the quick summary	<a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a>
wwoods	I think we're also allowing people to do rebuilds post-merge to pull new Extras builddeps?	<a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a>
jeremy	wwoods: there may be some case by case there, but generally	<a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a>
jwb	wwoods, like the KDE stuff?	<a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a>
notting	ftp seems t obe working	<a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a>
jwb	that seems counter-intuitive	<a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a>
poelcat	when do  we need a definitive decision on this topic?  we didn't reach one last time	<a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a>
poelcat	<a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ReleaseEngineering/Meetings/2007-apr-19#head-544d2f3e7c054264a2e926078890461ac25b1253">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ReleaseEngineering/Meetings/2007-apr-19#head-544d2f3e7c054264a2e926078890461ac25b1253</a>	<a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a>
jeremy	notting: it sounds like the problem is with booting from a rescue cd or the dvd	<a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a>
* notting tries rescuecd		<a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a>
davej	jwb: switched to linus'	<a href="#t13:36" class="time">13:36</a>
jwb	davej, great!	<a href="#t13:36" class="time">13:36</a>
jeremy	I'm keeping a list of things we might want if we do another test4 respin at <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JeremyKatz/F7Test4">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JeremyKatz/F7Test4</a>	<a href="#t13:37" class="time">13:37</a>
notting	jeremy: probably should tag the totem package hadess sent	<a href="#t13:37" class="time">13:37</a>
jeremy	notting: it's in my list	<a href="#t13:37" class="time">13:37</a>
jeremy	I'm holding off on tagging anything until we know we're respinning	<a href="#t13:37" class="time">13:37</a>
jeremy	although the list is looking kind of compelling at this point....	<a href="#t13:39" class="time">13:39</a>
notting	that was odd	<a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a>
jeremy	anyone have anything else?	<a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a>
notting	ftp failed the first time, and then tried to retrieve it, and errored	<a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a>
notting	LOOP_SET_FD failed: -EBUSYZ	<a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a>
jeremy	notting: I think that was the way it manifested	<a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a>
notting	so yeah. is broke.	<a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a>
jeremy	do we want to vote on the importance of having it fixed for test4?	<a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a>
warren	what is the scope of it?	<a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a>
warren	fails under what specific circumstances	<a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a>
jeremy	ftp/http installs started from the rescuecd or the dvd will fail	<a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a>
wwoods	starting from boot.iso will work OK	<a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a>
warren	but boot.iso and disc1 are fine?	<a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a>
wwoods	disc1 would probably also fail, I think	<a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a>
jeremy	warren: there is no disc1, just the dvd	<a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a>
warren	oh	<a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a>
warren	jeremy, does that include if the user adds additional repos during anaconda?  (is that still possible?)	<a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a>
jeremy	warren: no (and yes, still possible.  should even be fixed as of sometime the middle of last week)	<a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a>
warren	jeremy, a respin is likely even without fixing this before test4?	<a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a>
notting	surely if we respin we slip?	<a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a>
jeremy	notting: or we only give the mirrors 24 hours to sync like we've been doing :/	<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
wwoods	if we respin, we will probably slip, but I'm just guessing (f13 would know better than I do)	<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
jeremy	it also depends on how quickly we can get ahold of f13	<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
notting	i hear they have personal communication devices that can be used to notify people	<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
warren	notting, comm badges?	<a href="#t13:46" class="time">13:46</a>
jeremy	notting: yes, but that doesn't help if he's not near the series of tubes :)	<a href="#t13:46" class="time">13:46</a>
jeremy	personally, I think that having a solid test4 is sorely needed and if we don't take the time now, we'll pay when it comes to the final release	<a href="#t13:47" class="time">13:47</a>
warren	+1 (for partially selfish reasons of wanting much fewer bitching about the pidgin epoch)	<a href="#t13:48" class="time">13:48</a>
notting	can we get libperl in a respin?	<a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a>
warren	notting, did we decide what to do about that?	<a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a>
warren	split out perl-libs?	<a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a>
jwb	jeremy, agreed	<a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a>
jeremy	notting: it's not built... but it could probably be done pretty quickly	<a href="#t13:50" class="time">13:50</a>
wwoods	how safe is that change? right now we've got a tree that's very close to releasable	<a href="#t13:50" class="time">13:50</a>
notting	well, there is 'get a solid test 4', but also 'SHIP ALREADY, DAMMIT' :)	<a href="#t13:50" class="time">13:50</a>
wwoods	if we throw in some deeper changes now I worry we'll slip even more	<a href="#t13:50" class="time">13:50</a>
warren	the perl multilib problem is still breaking deps	<a href="#t13:50" class="time">13:50</a>
jeremy	wwoods: if we make sure perl depends on libperl, then it should be pretty safe	<a href="#t13:50" class="time">13:50</a>
notting	how would perl *not* depend on libperl?	<a href="#t13:51" class="time">13:51</a>
jeremy	notting: nfi.  I'm just saying we have to ensure that it does	<a href="#t13:51" class="time">13:51</a>
XulChris	did someone say multilib problem?	<a href="#t13:53" class="time">13:53</a>
XulChris	pygame needs blacklisted or something	<a href="#t13:53" class="time">13:53</a>
XulChris	and gnumeric i think	<a href="#t13:53" class="time">13:53</a>
warren	XulChris, I would prefer that solution for pidgin too, but it was rejected.	<a href="#t13:54" class="time">13:54</a>
* jeremy doesn't think we're actually making any progress on consensus here...		<a href="#t13:55" class="time">13:55</a>
wwoods	"the perl multilib problem is still breaking deps" - is breaking out libperl the solution, then?	<a href="#t13:55" class="time">13:55</a>
notting	yes	<a href="#t13:55" class="time">13:55</a>
wwoods	ah	<a href="#t13:55" class="time">13:55</a>
jwb	jeremy, i say fix these things and slip	<a href="#t13:55" class="time">13:55</a>
notting	then, the question is how much slip?	<a href="#t13:56" class="time">13:56</a>
jwb	a week	<a href="#t13:56" class="time">13:56</a>
jeremy	notting: as little as we can is always my prefernce	<a href="#t13:56" class="time">13:56</a>
notting	i don't see anything a-week-worthy	<a href="#t13:56" class="time">13:56</a>
wwoods	if make the changes today, tomorrow we have a new rawhide and a new RC tree	<a href="#t13:56" class="time">13:56</a>
jeremy	we have fixes in hand for most of them, so we should be able to get a new RC tree by end of day	<a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a>
notting	so, our *blocker*-type issues are: net installs from media, broken deps due to perl	<a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a>
notting	right?	<a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a>
wwoods	so we need a day or two to test the RC	<a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a>
jeremy	notting: that's what I know of	<a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a>
wwoods	barring new problems we'd have a greenlit RC by thursday. if memory serves we need a while to push to mirrors	<a href="#t13:58" class="time">13:58</a>
jeremy	wwoods: we can start pushing to the mirrors in parallel to testing	<a href="#t13:58" class="time">13:58</a>
jwb	you guys know better than i.  if you don't see anything worth a week, then go for it	<a href="#t13:58" class="time">13:58</a>
wwoods	I guess if we start pushing after we get a few smoke tests in	<a href="#t13:58" class="time">13:58</a>
jeremy	wwoods: right	<a href="#t13:59" class="time">13:59</a>
jeremy	wwoods: basically, hope to start the push process late tomorrow or wednesday, available either later in the day thursday (craziness!) or friday	<a href="#t13:59" class="time">13:59</a>
wwoods	but I mean, RC by late tonight, smoke tests overnight. assuming those go OK, we can greenlight pushing tomorrow around noon. when would that put the release?	<a href="#t13:59" class="time">13:59</a>
wwoods	gotcha	<a href="#t14:00" class="time">14:00</a>
notting	but.... do we have a *fix* for net installs?	<a href="#t14:01" class="time">14:01</a>
jeremy	notting: yes.  even committed	<a href="#t14:01" class="time">14:01</a>
wwoods	committed, ok, but confirmed?	<a href="#t14:01" class="time">14:01</a>
notting	jeremy: btw, we should move pygobject2 to test4	<a href="#t14:01" class="time">14:01</a>
jeremy	okay, added to the list	<a href="#t14:02" class="time">14:02</a>
jeremy	so, move forward with getting fixes and I'll try to get ahold of f13 for respin action?	<a href="#t14:03" class="time">14:03</a>
jeremy	wwoods: and continue testing to make sure there's nothing else	<a href="#t14:03" class="time">14:03</a>
notting	jeremy: surely it's respinnable with pungi	<a href="#t14:03" class="time">14:03</a>
wwoods	yeah I might try to get some last-minute fixes for the avc denials I saw.. if I can figure out how to reproduce 'em	<a href="#t14:04" class="time">14:04</a>
wwoods	actually none of them seem to hurt much of anything, so.. maybe not	<a href="#t14:04" class="time">14:04</a>
jeremy	wwoods: talk to dan about htem and if he wants, we can get them	<a href="#t14:04" class="time">14:04</a>
wwoods	'kay	<a href="#t14:04" class="time">14:04</a>
jeremy	and I'll give you a link to livecds in a few	<a href="#t14:04" class="time">14:04</a>
notting	wwoods: check with stransky about the alsa ones - some of the very recent changes should have been to fix those	<a href="#t14:05" class="time">14:05</a>
wwoods	gotcha. I can't reproduce it but I can send the messages along to dan and see what he says	<a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a>
notting	WHAT?	<a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a>
wwoods	same for the ppc-only console-kit one	<a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a>
notting	WE TOOK THE CEREAL NOTE OUT OF ANACONDA?????	<a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a>
wwoods	cereal note?	<a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a>
* notting is sad		<a href="#t14:07" class="time">14:07</a>
jeremy	notting: me too	<a href="#t14:07" class="time">14:07</a>
rsc	notting: Anaconda is something for barbecue, not for breakfast :)	<a href="#t14:07" class="time">14:07</a>
notting	jeremy: can't you put it back?	<a href="#t14:07" class="time">14:07</a>
jeremy	notting: sure.  so can you :-)	<a href="#t14:08" class="time">14:08</a>
notting	jeremy: you have seniority on the codebase	<a href="#t14:08" class="time">14:08</a>
notting	wait	<a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a>
notting	we switched icon themese?	<a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a>
wwoods	yeah	<a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a>
jeremy	yes	<a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a>
notting	is ugly	<a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a>
jeremy	that was the art/desktop consensus	<a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a>
wwoods	"Is Echo ready?" "dunno." "ok, let's change to something completely different from the previous or following release!"	<a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a>
wwoods	wait, echo's not even included anymore?	<a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a>
notting	none of us is as stupid as all of us	<a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a>
jeremy	wwoods: actually, it went more like "is echo ready?" "nope, don't think so."  "let's go back to bluecurve then.  "but that's boring.  let's go to something closer to the upstream default.  mist it is!"	<a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a>
notting	is mist the upstream default?	<a href="#t14:11" class="time">14:11</a>
jwb	wwoods, echo is still included.  just not default	<a href="#t14:11" class="time">14:11</a>
jeremy	no, gnome is the upstream default... mist is the same icons but different palette (or something like that... I talked for a while with matthias about it on friday and then promptly decided to forget it all :-)	<a href="#t14:11" class="time">14:11</a>
jeremy	can someone volunteer to shepherd getting the perl changes done today?	<a href="#t14:12" class="time">14:12</a>
davej	notting: I'm partly responsible for the cereal thing.  I saw it in a log from a user in a bz this morning and was all "wtf?". dcantrell & clumens chuckled, and then ripped it out I guess.	<a href="#t14:12" class="time">14:12</a>
wwoods	jwb: huh. one of my testers says it's not in his list in the theme chooser	<a href="#t14:12" class="time">14:12</a>
* jeremy looks at warren :)		<a href="#t14:12" class="time">14:12</a>
notting	davej: bad davej	<a href="#t14:12" class="time">14:12</a>
davej	notting: pfft, if I'm not told "in jokes" I get to spoil them.	<a href="#t14:13" class="time">14:13</a>
jwb	wwoods, the overall theme isn't.  but if you customize a theme, the echo icon set is available	<a href="#t14:13" class="time">14:13</a>
jeremy	because there isn't an overall echo theme	<a href="#t14:13" class="time">14:13</a>
notting	davej: but that's been there since the first anaconda release!	<a href="#t14:13" class="time">14:13</a>
jeremy	anyway, it sounds like we're done	<a href="#t14:13" class="time">14:13</a>
wwoods	right, he's saying that the echo icon set wasn't in the list	<a href="#t14:13" class="time">14:13</a>
wwoods	it's not in my list either	<a href="#t14:13" class="time">14:13</a>
davej	notting: wow.	<a href="#t14:13" class="time">14:13</a>
jeremy	wwoods: do you have echo-icon-theme installed?	<a href="#t14:14" class="time">14:14</a>
jwb	wwoods, it's there man	<a href="#t14:14" class="time">14:14</a>
wwoods	jeremy: nope, not installed	<a href="#t14:14" class="time">14:14</a>
jwb	don't make me screenshot you..	<a href="#t14:14" class="time">14:14</a>
jeremy	wwoods: that's why!	<a href="#t14:14" class="time">14:14</a>
warren	jeremy, eh?	<a href="#t14:14" class="time">14:14</a>
wwoods	this is a completely default install from today's rawhide	<a href="#t14:14" class="time">14:14</a>
jeremy	warren: want to shepherd getting the libperl change done this afternoon?	<a href="#t14:14" class="time">14:14</a>
f13	I'm here.	<a href="#t14:14" class="time">14:14</a>
warren	jeremy, reluctantly, ok	<a href="#t14:14" class="time">14:14</a>
jeremy	wwoods: echo-icon-theme isn't required by anything anymore so may not get installed by default now	<a href="#t14:14" class="time">14:14</a>
f13	I can do a spin when ever, I just need to know what to pick up and what to sign and all that.	<a href="#t14:15" class="time">14:15</a>
warren	f13, <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JeremyKatz/F7Test4">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JeremyKatz/F7Test4</a>	<a href="#t14:15" class="time">14:15</a>
warren	jeremy, any insight in what exactly needs moving?	<a href="#t14:15" class="time">14:15</a>
jeremy	warren: rpm -ql perl |grep libperl	<a href="#t14:16" class="time">14:16</a>
f13	are any of these completed?	<a href="#t14:16" class="time">14:16</a>
warren	jeremy, specifically the part that perl-loving-multilib packages want?	<a href="#t14:16" class="time">14:16</a>
jeremy	warren: yes	<a href="#t14:16" class="time">14:16</a>
wwoods	jeremy: can we put it back in as a default/mandatory/whatever?	<a href="#t14:16" class="time">14:16</a>
jeremy	f13: some of them; I haven't gone through t oadd evrs to the list yet	<a href="#t14:16" class="time">14:16</a>
wwoods	err not default, but as a mandatory package	<a href="#t14:16" class="time">14:16</a>
jeremy	wwoods: default maybe.  not mandatory	<a href="#t14:16" class="time">14:16</a>
wwoods	default in comps I mean. yeah.	<a href="#t14:17" class="time">14:17</a>
wwoods	not the default icon set.	<a href="#t14:17" class="time">14:17</a>
jeremy	still -- default in comps, not mandatory in comps :)	<a href="#t14:17" class="time">14:17</a>
notting	how is a icon theme change not an interface change post-freeze? :)	<a href="#t14:17" class="time">14:17</a>
jeremy	notting: we explicitly said from the beginning that if coverage wasn't sufficient, we'd change.	<a href="#t14:17" class="time">14:17</a>
jwb	notting, it's _art_ man	<a href="#t14:18" class="time">14:18</a>
notting	... to something entirely different?	<a href="#t14:18" class="time">14:18</a>
warren	bluecurve?	<a href="#t14:18" class="time">14:18</a>
wwoods	I guess the art/desktop teams have the final say here, really	<a href="#t14:18" class="time">14:18</a>
jeremy	notting: no one is here for you to argue with....  why are we continuing to beat this dead horse?	<a href="#t14:18" class="time">14:18</a>
notting	jeremy: I WANT TO SEE BLOOD AND GUTS	<a href="#t14:18" class="time">14:18</a>
wwoods	I will defer to people who are experts in Making Things Pretty	<a href="#t14:19" class="time">14:19</a>
warren	jeremy, splitting perl looks straightfoward	<a href="#t14:19" class="time">14:19</a>
* jwb stabs bluecurve		<a href="#t14:19" class="time">14:19</a>
jeremy	warren: yes, it does.  spot is probably around an up for helping too	<a href="#t14:19" class="time">14:19</a>
warren	jeremy, isnt this going to be an issue in RHEL5 too?	<a href="#t14:20" class="time">14:20</a>
f13	RHEl5 doesn't have a perl-devel	<a href="#t14:20" class="time">14:20</a>
warren	oh	<a href="#t14:20" class="time">14:20</a>
f13	so there is no multilib perl to begin with	<a href="#t14:20" class="time">14:20</a>
jeremy	anyway, we're done here...  let's try to get things fixed and I'll try to write up a summary shortly	<a href="#t14:21" class="time">14:21</a>

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.3 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!