QA/Meetings/20110328

Attendees

People present (lines said):

• jlaska (168)
• kparal (85)
• adamw (62)
• Viking-Ice (34)
• tflink (30)
• vhumpa (29)
• nirik (15)
• zodbot (6)
• Venemo_N900 (3)
• jskladan (2)
• mkrizek (2)
• Cerlyn (1)
• robatino (1)
• jsmith (1)

Unable to attend:

1. Rhe (hopefully sleeping)
2. Hongqing (hopefully sleeping)
3. Twu (hopefully sleeping)

Agenda

• Proposed meeting agenda
• MeetBot summary

Previous meeting follow-up

1. jlaska - provide updated boot.iso for testing new lorax+anaconda builds so testers can provide karma
   • Newer anaconda-15.25-1 now available, will post and updated boot.iso for testing - https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/anaconda-15.25-1.fc15

Rescheduling GNOME3 test day

• The test day is scheduled on 7th of April now, which collides with the GNOME3 release again
• Reschedule for Apr 21st - plenty of time before F-15 final change deadline

Upcoming QA events

Tuesday, March 29 - Beta 'Test Compose'

• Request: https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/ticket/4533
• STATUS: AT RISK
• jlaska has a newer boot.iso available for verifying anaconda-15.25-1 and NM-0.9 - http://jlaska.fedorapeople.org/boot.iso

Tuesday, March 29 - Printing Test Day

• Request: ticket#172 - Test_Day:2011-03-29_Printing
• STATUS: INPROGRESS
• ACTION: tflink to handle announcements for Printing test day

Thursday, March 31 - ABRT/Retrace Server Test Day

• Request: ticket#165 - Test_Day:2011-03-31_ABRT_Retrace_Server
• STATUS: INPROGRESS
• No assistance needed creating/editing wiki content
• Help may be needed to create custom live images if content does not land in nightly live ISO

Friday, April 1 - F-15-Beta Blocker #4

• Request: task#37
• STATUS: INPROGRESS
• http://bit.ly/f15-beta-blocker-proposed
• http://bit.ly/f15-beta-blocker-accepted

Open discussion - <Your topic here>

AutoQA Updates

• https://kparal.wordpress.com/2011/03/21/autoqa-will-be-providing-comments-for-fedora-updates-really-soon/
• Bodhi should be fixed now, thanks lmacken for quick response.
• As for AutoQA, we're working on fine-tuning all those errors and would like to make a bugfix release soon (next week? just a guess).
• ACTION: tflink will gather a list of stale -pending tags and determine whether autoqa or bodhi bug
• tflink added new method to our library allowing us to easily download RPMs for a specific build
• vhumpa committed a patch splitting watcher scripts and event definitions into separate directories (abolishing 'hook' word). That should make the architecture more comprehensible. He's now in the process of adjusting wiki documentation to reflect it.
• jskladan has provided patches for upgradepath, which was incorrectly reporting results to updates consisting of more than 1 build
• AutoQA will following a proper versioning scheme from now on. Major number bump for very large changes, minor number bump for standard feature additions and standard-size changes, and revision number bump for bugfix releases.
• We have even created 'stable' git branch that should always contain the latest stable code (released or about to be released).

NetworkManager-0.9 and libreoffice status check

• jlaska asked if anyone knew the status of the pending NM-0.9 update - https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/pidgin-2.7.11-2.fc15,telepathy-glib-0.14.1-1.fc15,telepathy-logger-0.2.6-1.fc15,libsocialweb-0.25.11-3.fc15,kdebase-runtime-4.6.1-3.fc15,epiphany-2.91.92-2.fc15,evolution-2.91.92-2.fc15,control-center-2.91.92-3.fc15,kde-plasma-networkmanagement-0.9-0.44.20110323.fc15,kdebase-workspace-4.6.1-5.fc15,empathy-2.91.92-2.fc15,geoclue-0.12.0-7.fc15,krb5-auth-dialog-2.91.91-3.fc15,gnome-shell-2.91.92-3.fc15,NetworkManager-openvpn-0.8.995-1.fc15,NetworkManager-vpnc-0.8.996-2.fc15,NetworkManager-0.8.997-4.git20110325.fc15,NetworkManager-openswan-0.8.0-9.20100411git.fc15,tracker-0.10.3-3.fc15,NetworkManager-pptp-0.8.995-1.fc15,NetworkManager-openconnect-0.8.1-7.git20110326.fc15,openconnect-3.01-2.fc15,liferea-1.6.5-4.fc15,claws-mail-3.7.8-7.fc15,nntpgrab-0.6.91-4.fc15
  • Appears to be headed for stable, waiting for usual mirror/compose syncing
• jlaska also asked if what was up with the pending libreoffice update - https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/libreoffice-3.3.2.2-2.fc15
  • has been submitted but not pushed yet
• Adamw asked if anyone tested other desktops (KDE, LXDE, XFCE)
  • nirik noted that LXDE was working
  • Positive KDE feedback was posted to the bodhi update
  • Adamw planned to run a few tests later in the day on XFCE and others

Handling HTML email to test@lists.fp.org

• Viking-Ice offered a proposal to update mailman settings to enable convert_html_to_plaintxt to automatically convert HTML emails to plaintext
  • The group agreed with this change
• Viking-Ice also suggested rejecting HTML messages, with a customized response pointing people to Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
  • The group didn't reach consensus on whether auto-rejecting emails was a good first response for contributors

Pending website change

• tflink informed the team that A ticket was filed with fedora-websites to add a notice that all pre-release feedback should be directed to #fedora-qa or test@
• LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-websites/ticket/

Nightly live ISO URLs

• Adamw reminded folks that nightly live ISO generation is being done by koji now, so the URLs have changed
• LINK: http://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/nightly-composes/current.html
• ACTION: nirik will look into updating the nightly-composes directory to eliminate any 404's

Action items

1. vhumpa reach out to reschedule GnomeShell #3 for April 21
2. tflink to handle announcements for Printing test day
3. tflink looking into stale -pending tags and determine whether autoqa or bodhi bug
4. nirik will look into updating the nightly-composes directory to eliminate any 404's

IRC Log

jlaska	#startmeeting Fedora QA Meeting	15:00
zodbot	Meeting started Mon Mar 28 15:00:16 2011 UTC. The chair is jlaska. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.	15:00
zodbot	Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.	15:00
jlaska	#meetingname fedora-qa	15:00
zodbot	The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa'	15:00
jlaska	#topic Roll Call	15:00
* tflink is present		15:00
* kparal is here		15:00
* mkrizek visits		15:00
jlaska	Hello gang ... show of electronic hands time	15:00
jlaska	woah ... welcome back mkrizek!	15:00
jlaska	Hello tflink + kparal	15:01
* vhumpa hello there!		15:01
jlaska	howdy vhumpa	15:01
kparal	mkrizek: looking forward to hearing autoqa updates? :-)	15:01
jlaska	Anyone else lurking? robatino Viking-Ice adamw ?	15:02
* robatino is here		15:02
* jlaska greets		15:02
mkrizek	kparal: yep, can't wait:)	15:02
jlaska	okay, let's get started	15:02
jlaska	btw ... I may have to go on radio silence for a moment during the meeting. kparal was kind enough to agree to co #chair	15:03
jlaska	#chair kparal	15:03
zodbot	Current chairs: jlaska kparal	15:03
jlaska	I'll be walking through the agenda posted on the wiki - QA/Meetings/20110328	15:03
* jsmith lurks		15:03
jlaska	lurker!	15:03
jlaska	#topic Previous meeting follow-up	15:03
jlaska	We had 3 items on the list, 2 of which pertain to test days, so we can cover those when we review ucoming QA events	15:04
jlaska	Hey, there's jskladan!	15:04
* jskladan lurks		15:04
jskladan	jlaska: hey there	15:04
jlaska	#info jlaska - provide updated boot.iso for testing new lorax+anaconda builds so testers can provide karma	15:04
jlaska	So thanks to everyone who helped test the newer anaconda and lorax builds last week	15:04
* jlaska looking at robatino		15:04
* Viking-Ice checks in		15:04
jlaska	I just updated my boot.iso to include the proposed anaconda-15.25-1 and NM-0.9 updates	15:05
jlaska	Hey Viking	15:05
jlaska	I'll send another request out to the list, but we have another anaconda update that needs some karma so it can land in Beta TC1	15:05
jlaska	#link https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/anaconda-15.25-1.fc15	15:05
jlaska	That's all from me on this one	15:05
jlaska	anything I missed from last week?	15:06
jlaska	alright then, let's dive in	15:06
jlaska	#topic Rescheduling GNOME3 test day	15:06
jlaska	vhumpa requested adding this topic	15:06
jlaska	I believe we may need adamw around for this though	15:06
vhumpa	Yes, he needs to be around	15:07
jlaska	vhumpa: can you highlight the problem again, for the minutes?	15:07
vhumpa	jlaska: of course	15:07
tflink	:q	15:08
tflink	sorry, wrong window	15:08
jlaska	tflink: heh	15:08
vhumpa	The test day is scheduled on 7th of April now, which colides with the GNOME3 release again	15:08
jlaska	#info The test day is scheduled on 7th of April now, which colides with the GNOME3 release again	15:08
Viking-Ice	the third time then right ;)	15:08
vhumpa	So, like last time, there would likely be a need to push important updates to the test day image at the last moment	15:09
kparal	when's the release date?	15:09
vhumpa	Which seems to make problems, notably to AdamW's sleep :)	15:09
vhumpa	kparal: 7th April	15:09
kparal	vhumpa: ah, I see	15:09
vhumpa	Thus we though to move the test day to later date	15:09
vhumpa	Next week though is a virtualization test day	15:10
Viking-Ice	reschedule the Gnome 3 test after the upstream release ?	15:10
vhumpa	viking-ice: yes	15:10
kparal	well, does it have to be Thursday? I know it's common practice, but what about Friday?	15:10
jlaska	Just trying to find a good fit ... and not interfere with any other test events	15:10
kparal	or other day next week?	15:10
vhumpa	First free slot is on 21st, which might just be too late	15:10
jlaska	vhumpa: adamw proposed the Tuesday before the virt event	15:11
Viking-Ice	you dont have to stick with the slots	15:11
vhumpa	kparal: it doesnt	15:11
jlaska	I was just concerned that we might overload that week with two *large* test days (GNOME3 and Virt)	15:11
vhumpa	Also no problem with multiple test days per week	15:11
vhumpa	The issue is exactly what jlaska just mentioned	15:11
vhumpa	So, what we can do...	15:11
Viking-Ice	the upcoming printing test day was not set on a "schedule" slot	15:11
vhumpa	Move the test day just to 8th (Friday) and hope the extra day gives time to evade trouble	15:12
Viking-Ice	and date that suited the maintainer was simply found..	15:12
jlaska	vhumpa: the upstream release is on Apr 7th, right?	15:13
tflink	is 1 day going to be enough for the released packages to get into repos?	15:13
vhumpa	jlaska: yes I think so	15:13
jlaska	I don't think so	15:13
Viking-Ice	just simply ask the Gnome desktop team when it's best for them to hold the test day ?	15:13
jlaska	Let's at least push the test day to the following week?	15:13
vhumpa	Likely Nope...	15:13
jlaska	vhumpa: I think Viking-Ice has the right approach	15:14
vhumpa	We could also talk to virt guys to swap	15:14
Viking-Ice	you dont have to swap	15:14
jlaska	definitely	15:14
Venemo_N900	am I late for the QA meeting?	15:14
jlaska	Venemo_N900: nope, welcome	15:14
vhumpa	Let's ask the deskop guys then	15:15
jlaska	vhumpa: from there we can adjust/swap if needed	15:15
Viking-Ice	yup	15:15
jlaska	vhumpa: you want to reach out to desktop@ ?	15:15
vhumpa	jlaska: Will do	15:15
jlaska	excellent, thanks	15:15
jlaska	adamw noted he may have already started discussion on this topic, but I don't know if a date was ever selected	15:16
vhumpa	We have a bunch of them here, so no problem asking :)	15:16
jlaska	yeah	15:16
jlaska	#topic Upcoming QA events	15:16
kparal	#action vhumpa reach out to desktop team to disscuss best day for upcoming test day	15:16
jlaska	kparal: can you take over ... ?	15:16
kparal	jlaska: ok	15:17
kparal	Tuesday, March 29 - Beta 'Test Compose'	15:17
kparal	jlaska - will provide updated boot.iso for testing new lorax+anaconda builds so testers can provide karma	15:17
kparal	I think jlaska already covered this	15:17
kparal	he will send out email asking for help in testing the new builds	15:18
kparal	Tuesday, March 29 - Printing Test Day	15:18
Venemo_N900	may I have a few suggestions regarding the desktop in F15?	15:18
Venemo_N900	I'm not sure if this is the right place to discuss	15:18
kparal	tflink to check in with twaugh on preparations for printing test day	15:19
kparal	Venemo_N900: in #fedora-qa or on desktop channel	15:19
kparal	tflink: do you have some updates on this?	15:19
tflink	I sent an email to twaugh asking about the status of the test day. I heard back from him on tuesday, saying that he hadn't forgotten but had been busy	15:20
kparal	the wiki seems kind of ready	15:20
tflink	he said that he was planning to send out an announcement later that day (also in qa trac #172)	15:20
kparal	I think it wasn't sent yet	15:21
tflink	I don't believe that I saw an announcement for the test day, though	15:21
tflink	I'll poke him about sending that out today	15:21
kparal	tflink: ok, can you try to contact twaugh about the announcement or send it yourself?	15:21
kparal	thanks	15:21
tflink	either/or. I would want to make sure that they're ready before sending out the announcement, though	15:22
kparal	tflink: sure	15:22
kparal	#action tflink to handle announcements for Printing test day	15:22
kparal	one more thing	15:22
kparal	there seems to be a change of URLs for nightly composes	15:23
kparal	this doesn't work any more: http://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/nightly-composes/desktop/	15:23
kparal	instead see http://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/nightly-composes/current.html	15:23
kparal	so it's not as easy to link to a current image from the wiki page	15:23
kparal	we will have to decide whether to link to an image from a particular day, or link to current.html page (may be confusing for people)	15:24
adamw	oh fer...	15:24
adamw	why do i never seem to be able to get meeting times right lately	15:24
adamw	hi	15:24
kparal	adamw: hello!	15:24
kparal	ok, if there is nothing to add to Printing Test Day...	15:25
adamw	we might want to do more about the nightly URL thing	15:25
adamw	but we can put that in open discussion...	15:25
* jlaska back		15:26
kparal	adamw: ok, let's put it there	15:26
kparal	adamw: please read backlog about gnome3 test day date and comment if you have something further on your mind	15:26
kparal	next on:	15:26
kparal	Thursday, March 31 - ABRT/Retrace Server Test Day	15:26
kparal	# kparal to check with jmoskovc what is needed about ABRT test day	15:26
adamw	kparal: i already reached out to desktop team about changing the date, the thread never really went anywhere.	15:27
adamw	at this point we should probably just do it.	15:27
adamw	but we can come back to it later	15:27
kparal	adamw: lets go back to that later, thanks	15:27
kparal	so, abrt test day	15:27
kparal	I did checked and was told that abrt guys were working on those test cases	15:27
kparal	they don't need any wiki help	15:28
jlaska	cool, [X] Check! :)	15:28
kparal	but they might need to build a custom LiveCD if nightly compose is not good enough for them	15:28
kparal	I offered my services in that case	15:28
kparal	apart from that, they didn't ask for anything else	15:28
jlaska	thanks ... we also have help from EDT and PDT if needed for building the ISO's	15:28
* kparal not familiar with those abbreviations		15:29
jlaska	sorry, just timezones (eastern-US and pacific-US)	15:29
kparal	ah, yes	15:29
kparal	ok, /me giving mic back to jlaska	15:29
kparal	we can go back to gnome3 test day or go forth to the next topic	15:30
jlaska	kparal: rats, you were doing good! :)	15:30
jlaska	#info Friday, April 1 - F-15-Beta Blocker #4	15:30
jlaska	Just a reminder ... the fourth beta blocker review will be hosted again this Friday	15:31
jlaska	#link http://bit.ly/f15-beta-blocker-proposed	15:31
jlaska	#link http://bit.ly/f15-beta-blocker-accepted	15:31
jlaska	kparal: I think that's it for upcoming events, did I miss any?	15:31
jlaska	if not ... we'll jump back to GNOME3	15:32
kparal	I don't think so	15:32
jlaska	okay, thanks for driving	15:32
jlaska	#topic Rescheduling GNOME3 test day	15:32
adamw	so yeah, i think waiting for desktop team on this may not work	15:32
jlaska	okay ... with adamw here now ... is there anything else to discuss on this topic?	15:32
adamw	they seem to take a 'ok, whatever' approach to scheduling - at every point i asked for their input but then just went ahead and did it	15:32
jlaska	okay	15:33
vhumpa	I just got exactly that from one of them :)	15:33
vhumpa	Well, actually - I was wrong about the release day	15:34
adamw	so, wait a sec, the open slot we have is 21st?	15:34
vhumpa	It is on 6th	15:34
vhumpa	adamw: yes	15:34
adamw	i think i've been looking at an old calendar when being worried about that date	15:34
adamw	now we have a two week slip, 21st actually should be fine	15:34
adamw	final change deadline isn't till may 9th, now	15:35
adamw	so i think we can probably just go ahead with 21st, unless anyone else is worried about it	15:35
vhumpa	adamw: that sounds good	15:35
jlaska	no worries here	15:35
vhumpa	Also makes a buffer time if something goes wrong with G3 release finally	15:36
adamw	true	15:36
jlaska	#info Reschedule for Apr 21st - plenty of time before F-15 final change deadline	15:37
jlaska	thanks vhumpa + adamw	15:37
jlaska	#topic Open Discussion - <your topic here>	15:37
jlaska	That's all I had on the agenda for today	15:37
jlaska	Any topics folks would like to cover?	15:38
* kparal proposes AutoQA updates		15:38
* vhumpa is running home		15:38
jlaska	vhumpa: cya	15:38
* kparal created quite some notes in advance		15:38
jlaska	#topic AutoQA Updates	15:38
jlaska	kparal: take it away when you are ready	15:38
kparal	mkrizek: wake up, the time has come :)	15:38
jlaska	hehe	15:39
kparal	I'd like to shortly recapitulate the latest news about AutoQA and its "send Bodhi comments" feature. As you probably noticed, I posted the following message as a blogpost and into devel and test lists:	15:39
kparal	#link https://kparal.wordpress.com/2011/03/21/autoqa-will-be-providing-comments-for-fedora-updates-really-soon/	15:39
kparal	After we enabled Bodhi commenting last week, a lot of problems popped up. That was certainly expected, although not desired. We turned off the feature after only a single hour or so, because we received many reports of misbehaviour. It turned out that some mistakes were caused by AutoQA bugs, some mistakes were caused by Bodhi bugs.	15:39
kparal	#info Bodhi should be fixed now, thanks lmacken for quick response.	15:39
kparal	#info As for AutoQA, we're working on fine-tuning all those errors and would like to make a bugfix release soon (next week? just a guess). Then we will turn the commenting feature on again.	15:40
jlaska	yeah, that was some fast action resolving that stuff	15:40
tflink	it looks like there are some packages with stale tags hanging around still	15:40
jlaska	tflink: do you have a script you are using to detect?	15:40
kparal	tflink: if you have some links, feel free to create a ticket for bodhi and CC us, thanks	15:40
tflink	nope, just looking at the upgradepath results	15:40
kparal	tflink: well, there were some bugs in upgradepath	15:41
* tflink will put together a list of stale tags today and submit a ticket		15:41
kparal	tflink: builds containing epoch were not detected correctly	15:41
kparal	it's better to check manually using "koji" command or so	15:41
tflink	kparal: OK, I was planning to double check with koji before submitting anyways	15:42
kparal	tflink: great	15:42
jlaska	#action tflink will gather a list of stale -pending tags and determine whether autoqa or bodhi bug	15:42
jlaska	tflink: thx	15:42
tflink	jlaska: np	15:42
kparal	so, I'll post another email/blogpost when we're nearing the date when we should enable Bodhi comments again	15:42
kparal	I also expect this whole cycle to repeat itself a few times untill we have it all perfectly running.	15:42
kparal	That's all from the recap. A few notes about other recent updates:	15:43
kparal	#info tflink added new method to our library allowing us to easily download RPMs for a specific build	15:43
kparal	This is his first push to master IIRC, yay! :)	15:43
jlaska	I'll stay tuned to do a new stable tag + build when requested	15:43
jlaska	first of many, I'm sure	15:44
kparal	definitely	15:44
kparal	And similarly for vhumpa:	15:44
kparal	#info vhumpa committed a patch splitting watcher scripts and event definitions into separate directories (abolishing 'hook' word). That should make the architecture more comprehensible. He's now in the process of adjusting wiki documentation to reflect it.	15:44
tflink	I should hope so. I'd be worried if my only contribution to autoqa was a single utility method :-D	15:44
jlaska	tflink: haha!	15:44
kparal	And jskladan wasn't idle either:	15:45
kparal	#info jskladan has provided patches for upgradepath, which was incorrectly reporting results to updates consisting of more than 1 build	15:45
kparal	Not yet in master, it will be there any time soon.	15:45
jlaska	kparal: I gather that'll also land in stable?	15:45
kparal	jlaska: yes	15:45
jlaska	cool	15:45
jlaska	nice work gang ... looking forward to 0.4.5-1	15:45
kparal	which reminds me...	15:46
kparal	#info AutoQA will following a better versioning scheme from now on. Major number bump for very large changes, minor number bump for standard feature additions and standard-size changes, and revision number bump for bugfix releases. Roughly :) That should help our packages to be more predictible and easily distinguish bugfix releases from feature releases or packaging changes.	15:46
kparal	#info We have even created 'stable' git branch that should always contain the latest stable code (released or about to be released).	15:46
jlaska	kparal: and by better, you mean "actual" ... and note my lazy release bump method  :)	15:46
jlaska	s/note/not/	15:46
* jlaska got caught being lazy		15:47
* kparal is denying that		15:47
jlaska	Anything else on AutoQA?	15:47
kparal	ok, that's all from AutoQA world for today	15:47
jlaska	thanks for the updates	15:47
jlaska	#topic Open Discussion - <your topic here>	15:48
jlaska	I had a quick question ... anyone know what the latest build status is for the NM-0.9 stuff?	15:48
jlaska	I see a bodhi update ... I'm guessing we're just waiting for the repo to update?	15:48
jlaska	#link https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/pidgin-2.7.11-2.fc15,telepathy-glib-0.14.1-1.fc15,telepathy-logger-0.2.6-1.fc15,libsocialweb-0.25.11-3.fc15,kdebase-runtime-4.6.1-3.fc15,epiphany-2.91.92-2.fc15,evolution-2.91.92-2.fc15,control-center-2.91.92-3.fc15,kde-plasma-networkmanagement-0.9-0.44.20110323.fc15,kdebase-workspace-4.6.1-5.fc15,empathy-2.91.92-2.fc15,geoclue-0.12.0-7.fc15,krb5-auth-dialog-2.91.91-3.fc15,gnome-shell-2.91.	15:49
adamw	jlaska: yes, as far as the system is concerned, it's stable.	15:49
jlaska	ouch	15:49
adamw	so if you don't have it yet, it's just compose / mirror sync	15:49
jlaska	okay	15:49
jlaska	cool ... and what's up with libreoffice, is that in the same boat?	15:49
jlaska	#link https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/libreoffice-3.3.2.2-2.fc15	15:49
adamw	3.3.2.2-2.fc15 has been submitted but not pushed	15:50
Viking-Ice	I want to mention one thing	15:50
adamw	the summary screen on bodhi is actually more useful when checking this, btw	15:50
adamw	see https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/search/libreoffice	15:50
adamw	it makes it really obvious	15:50
jlaska	adamw: ah I see, thanks	15:51
jlaska	Viking-Ice: what's up?	15:51
jlaska	#info libreoffice and NM-0.9 updates working through system and should hit mirrors soon	15:51
Viking-Ice	I propose that we enable we convert_html_to_plaintxt option in mailman and reject the message on the bases that it it violates the list guide lines and provide http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines#No_HTML_Mail.2C_Please. . for the test list	15:51
Viking-Ice	one too many we there..	15:52
jlaska	have a few HTML messages landed recently?	15:52
Viking-Ice	yup	15:52
adamw	um, can we finish discussing networkmanager update first?	15:52
Viking-Ice	yup	15:52
jlaska	adamw: oh, didn't realize we were still discussing it, what'd I miss?	15:52
adamw	so one thing we should probably do is check and confirm other desktops are okay	15:53
adamw	is knetworkmanager working okay for everyone in kde, is nm-applet actually still working in lxde/xfce	15:53
jlaska	if we want to do this prior to TC1, we have a small window to build custom live images	15:53
jlaska	#topic NM-0.9 update status	15:53
adamw	yeah. i can build some for myself to test but uploading them for anyone else would take ages.	15:53
adamw	other thing you can do, of course, is just test on an installed system	15:53
adamw	yum install @desktop_of_choice	15:53
jlaska	#info the bodhi update is working it's way through, and will hit compose/mirror_sync soon	15:54
nirik	adamw: works in xfce here. :) had to reboot tho after the update.	15:54
jlaska	#info nirik reported that XFCE works well with NM-0.9 update	15:54
adamw	nirik: great	15:54
jlaska	I think I saw confirmation of knetworkmanager in the bodhi update	15:54
jlaska	anyone want to volunteer for LXDE confirmation?	15:55
adamw	i can check it.	15:55
adamw	i'll look at the others too, just in case.	15:55
Viking-Ice	I could have had my T61p not broken down..	15:55
jlaska	#info adamw volunteer to test LXDE + NM-0.9	15:55
adamw	if it works in xfce, though, i don't expect any problems	15:56
jlaska	adamw: I need to knock out testing of custom boot.iso and DVD.iso stuff ... I expect that'll chew up my afternoon	15:56
adamw	funsies	15:56
jlaska	anything else on this topic?	15:56
jlaska	#topic Proposal to enable convert_html_to_plaintxt	15:57
jlaska	okay, now to Viking-Ice's topic	15:57
Viking-Ice	So basically The convert_html_to_plaintxt option tells Mailman to strip all HTML from the message and deliver it as plain text.	15:57
adamw	no objections from me	15:57
jlaska	yeah, this seems like a "good thing"	15:57
jlaska	I'll go make the change if no one objects	15:58
Viking-Ice	yeah but we should set a filter rule and reject the message	15:58
jlaska	Viking-Ice: so you want to convert to plaintext, *and* reject ?	15:58
Viking-Ice	referring to the mailing list guidelines	15:58
Viking-Ice	jlaska: yup enforce and educate at the same time	15:59
adamw	i don't see the point in converting if we're going to reject it	15:59
Cerlyn	Adding the rejection seems kind of silly; many mail clients do not make it obvious how to send plain text on a per-recipient basis	15:59
jlaska	yeah, that seems odd	15:59
Viking-Ice	yeah my mistake	15:59
Viking-Ice	not up to speed in mailman filters though you had to enable then filter for some wierd reason	15:59
jlaska	+1 on the convert_to_plaintext	16:00
adamw	+1	16:00
Viking-Ice	by simply converting you dont educate user(s) at the same time	16:00
jlaska	Viking-Ice: it was your proposal ... do you want to change it?	16:00
Viking-Ice	yes rather reject but fall on converting if that fails ;)	16:01
jlaska	would you rather automatically reject mails with HTML?	16:01
Viking-Ice	as in fails to be agreed	16:01
Viking-Ice	jlaska: yup filter rule reject referring to mailing list guidelines	16:01
jlaska	I'll need to look into that with mailman, and I'll let you know	16:02
jlaska	I'm sure it's possible, I just haven't done it	16:02
Viking-Ice	enforcing and educate instead of just work around	16:02
jlaska	if I can customize the rejection response to point to the guildeines, I have no objections	16:03
Viking-Ice	great	16:03
jlaska	any objections to auto-reject w/ friendly response?	16:03
adamw	sure, whatever	16:03
tflink	not sure that rejection is the best idea if we're trying to get new pre-release users to send email to test@	16:03
jlaska	#agreed Update mailman settings for test@ to auto-reject HTML messages, and reply with list guidelines	16:03
jlaska	#undo	16:04
zodbot	Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Agreed object at 0x34137150>	16:04
* tflink is slow, aparrantly		16:04
Viking-Ice	tflink: they are violating the guidelines	16:04
Viking-Ice	they need to be educated	16:04
Viking-Ice	instead of us working around the problem	16:04
tflink	is rejecting someone's first email to a list the best way to educate them?	16:05
jlaska	I'm going to enable the plaintext conversion for now	16:05
Viking-Ice	tflink: and refering to the mailing list guidelines yes	16:05
kparal	let's convert to plaintext and accept, but send nagmail back asking for no html next time. is that possible?	16:05
jlaska	and we'll continue this discussion on #fedora-qa or on the list (without using HTML messages)	16:05
jlaska	#agreed Update mailman settings to enable convert_html_to_plaintext	16:05
Viking-Ice	?	16:06
jlaska	is this worth a lot of time?	16:06
jlaska	meaning, do we really have a ton of test@ mails containing HTML?	16:06
adamw	let's just agree and move on	16:06
jlaska	let's quick fix with the conversion, and politely educate users when it happens	16:06
jlaska	anything else for today?	16:07
Viking-Ice	right support their broken behaviour	16:07
jlaska	we're over time ... so if not, I'll #endmeeting shortly	16:07
tflink	one small thing	16:07
tflink	sorry, I just remembered	16:07
tflink	regarding a pending website change	16:07
jlaska	Viking-Ice: it's about approach/attitude ... your idea is sound, we just don't want to tell them to piss off on their first post	16:08
jlaska	#topic Pending website change	16:08
jlaska	tflink: take it	16:08
Viking-Ice	jlaska: depends on how you phrase the reply	16:08
jlaska	Viking-Ice: agreed, and when the phrasing is a mailman rejection ... that stucks	16:08
jlaska	s/stucks/sucks/	16:08
tflink	after a conversation with a new user on friday, I sent this email out to the test@ list about new user feedback http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test/2011-March/098160.html	16:09
tflink	A ticket was filed with fedora-websites to add a notice that all pre-release feedback should be directed to #fedora-qa or test@	16:09
adamw	yay	16:09
tflink	https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-websites/ticket/45	16:09
jlaska	hmm, I wonder if that explains the rise in chatter	16:09
tflink	that request has been accepted and the change is scheduled for beta release	16:10
jlaska	cool, good to know this workflow also	16:10
jlaska	tflink: thx for follow-up	16:10
adamw	nice one tflink	16:10
tflink	jlaska: np	16:11
jlaska	#info A ticket was filed with fedora-websites to add a notice that all pre-release feedback should be directed to #fedora-qa or test@	16:11
jlaska	#topic Open Discussion - last call	16:11
* jlaska sets the fuse at 1 minute		16:11
adamw	oh	16:12
adamw	one more	16:12
adamw	#topic nightly URLs	16:12
jlaska	darnit!	16:12
jlaska	;)	16:12
jlaska	#chair adamw	16:12
zodbot	Current chairs: adamw jlaska kparal	16:12
adamw	#topic nightly URLs	16:12
adamw	thanks	16:12
jlaska	take it my good man	16:12
adamw	so as we noticed earlier - nightly generation is being done by koji now	16:12
adamw	so all the URLs changed	16:12
jlaska	oh, good reminder	16:12
adamw	the old URLs were pretty widely distributed; it'd be nice if we could get any URL under that whole tree to redirect somewhere sane	16:12
jlaska	#info nightly generation is being done by koji now, so the URLs changed	16:13
* kparal is not happy when X restarts suddenly		16:13
adamw	right now you just get a 404, which doesn't give you any clue where to look	16:13
jlaska	kparal: :(	16:13
adamw	nirik: any input?	16:13
jlaska	does the Release/Branched wiki need an update	16:13
* jlaska checks		16:13
* nirik looks up		16:13
nirik	I guess I could see about a redirect...	16:14
nirik	or I could make the old dirs and put links back to the top in or something.	16:14
jlaska	for the logs ... what's the new location?	16:15
kparal	is it possible to have always current link to last desktop image?	16:15
jlaska	koji.fedoraproject.org ...	16:15
tflink	http://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/nightly-composes/current.html	16:15
adamw	http://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/nightly-composes/current.html	16:15
adamw	doh, i lose	16:15
kparal	but direct one	16:15
adamw	tflink: you realize, of course, this means war	16:15
adamw	yeah, it'd be nice to have a reliable direct link like we had before	16:15
* tflink is worried about what he started :-/		16:15
tflink	kparal: I don't think that there is a static link to the current nightly anymore	16:16
tflink	since they're all koji builds	16:16
* nirik isn't sure what you are asking...		16:16
nirik	a link to just the desktop composes?	16:16
adamw	well, actually, current.html is about as good as what we had before	16:16
kparal	not really	16:16
adamw	before you could reliably get to the right directory but not direct to an iso	16:16
jlaska	should current.html just be index.html?	16:16
adamw	it's still two clicks	16:16
kparal	yes, but if you link to current.html, some people might be confused. too much text there	16:17
nirik	jlaska: I suppose it could be.	16:17
nirik	can add a link there easily.	16:17
adamw	nirik: and have any other URL under /nightly-composes just redirect there	16:17
kparal	and btw finding iso on koji build page is not as easy as it used to be too	16:17
adamw	it's not really hard, though. i don't wanna make a mountain out of a molehill, here...	16:18
kparal	alright	16:18
nirik	I'm happy to try and improve things...	16:18
jlaska	nirik: I have some code that can push all this stuff into a wiki page if you want it there instead	16:18
nirik	but this is much nicer IMHO than the old setup	16:18
jlaska	yeah, takes the burden off of you for maintaining the build environment	16:19
nirik	having composes in ~30min instead of 10hours and having 2 weeks of old ones is nice.	16:19
jlaska	oh, that too! :)	16:19
jlaska	#link http://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/nightly-composes/current.html	16:19
jlaska	adamw: anything else on this topic?	16:19
nirik	well, currently it's still a script I have to run... I'd like to get it automated so I don't have to do anything, but figured it was far enough to put in place.	16:19
adamw	nirik: just cleaning up the 404s would be enough for me	16:20
nirik	which 404's?	16:20
nirik	oh, right.	16:20
nirik	will see what I can do	16:20
adamw	nirik: basically as long as when you land in the nightly-composes tree you can find where you were trying to go, i'm happy	16:21
adamw	i think that's all	16:22
jlaska	#action nirik will look into updating the nightly-composes directory to eliminate any 404's	16:22
jlaska	#topic Open discussion - last last last call	16:22
* jlaska sets fuse at 1 minute		16:22
jlaska	thanks all! I'll send minutes to the list later on	16:23
jlaska	Happy testing of TC1 when it lands this week :)	16:23
jlaska	#endmeeting	16:23

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