ReleaseEngineering/Meetings/2008-may-12

Fedora Release Engineering Meeting :: Monday 2008-05-12

Preparing Fedora 9

• The x86_64 DVD jigdo is busted due to our last minute respins on Friday--need to hand edit newly created files
• Consider making jigdo tree verification an F10 feature
• Change permissions 40 minutes before release time--https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/ticket/20
• Change the inheritance of dist-rawhide from f9-final to dist-f10--https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/ticket/21
• Create .ini files for torrent creator--https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/526

Post Fedora 9

During our short "down" time before F10 alpha f13 would like to get some things going

1. Better use of our Trac space
   • closing out tickets on time
   • tracking milestones and tasks
2. Start scoping tasks for summer intern
   • Casey Dahlin (he's worked with notting in the past on things like upstart)
   • work on things like new maintainer containment, tooling around non-responsive maintainers, Trac gateway, and other potential things like Kopers (Koji Personal Repos)
3. Tools
   • sigul--signing server needs work and connection with koji
   • pungi is going to inherit splittree and pkgorder from anaconda-runtime; need to integrate the functionality of those into pungi code
   • more tooling around releng tasks and tree validation
4. Upgrade releng1 to RHEL5 from FC6
5. What to cover at FUDCon Boston
   1. Start conversation about next generation SCM (Source Control Management)
      • primary focus on requirements gathering and work flow possibilities
   2. SELinux vs. chroots discussion--see fedora-selinux-list
   3. f13 is planning to run for Fedora Board and if he secures a position he would no longer represent Release Engineering on FESCo--would need a replacement

IRC Transcript

-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering Meeting - Roll Call		13:07
* notting is here		13:08
f13	ping: notting jeremy spot lmacken jwb rdieter poelcat wwoods warren	13:08
* spot is present, albeit, sleepy		13:08
* poelcat here		13:08
* wwoods hereish		13:08
rdieter	yo	13:08
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora releng - F9 release		13:09
f13	So... 9 is staged for release	13:10
f13	We had one minor emergency this morning, the x86_64 DVD jigdo was busted due to our last minute respins on Friday, but I was able to hunt down the problem and generate a new set of jigdo files, which I now realize are further broken because I didn't apply our necessary hand edits after the recreation.	13:10
f13	brb	13:10
* poelcat wondered if that was the case... trying to create on Friday kept failing w/ one file missing; even pointing at internal GOLD tree		13:11
f13	ok, fixed that.  *grumble*	13:13
spot	f13: it seems like this is something that we should be automating in the future	13:13
f13	spot: yes, pyjigdo will do this for us in the future	13:13
spot	or at least, have some "pre-push" check for.	13:13
f13	it's just not ready yet	13:13
f13	I should have pushed back on jigdo as a feature until it didn't require hand editing files	13:13
f13	spot: we need a whole slew of pre-push automated tests.  alas...	13:14
notting	f13: f10 feature?	13:14
spot	f13: might not be a bad thing to target for F10	13:14
poelcat	intern?	13:14
f13	we also need infrastructure resources to run them.	13:14
f13	poelcat: maybe, depends on how far we get with other stuff.	13:14
f13	anyway... /now/ the bits are in place, waiting for the bit flip	13:15
f13	I'm going to be workign from my house tomorrow since the bus will be at an inopportune time to make the release happen.	13:16
f13	the plan is to unlock the dirs on the master mirror 40 minutes prior to GO time, and turn on torrents 20 minutes prior to GO time.  Once we're sure that mirrors are opening and torrent is going, we'll send the release announcement at or after GO time	13:16
f13	That's https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/ticket/20	13:16
f13	I'm working on getting the first batch of F9 updates pushed out, still in signing mode.	13:18
f13	once those go out we can change mirrormanager redirection so that people cna get updates, and we can let rawhide unfreeze (IE ticket >https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/ticket/21)	13:19
wwoods	woo. is that happening today then?	13:20
f13	As for ticket >https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/526 (Torrent prep), I have all the isos uploaded, now it's just a matter of creating .ini files for the torrent creator.	13:21
f13	wwoods: theoretically	13:21
wwoods	cool	13:21
f13	wwoods: we're doing a just f9 push so that it'll hopefully go "faster"	13:21
wwoods	yeah I'm more keen on getting real updates in the f9 updates target	13:21
wwoods	than I am worried about getting rawhide unlocked	13:22
f13	I'm still pretty worried about all aspects, but that's just me (:	13:22
wwoods	well, naturally	13:23
wwoods	you actually have to turn the crank to make stuff go in both places	13:23
f13	I think all things are in good shape though, and we've got a lot of minds on all the aspects of making the release happen	13:23
f13	each release we get better at this	13:23
f13	We'll use #fedora-admin as the ground control for the launch	13:24
f13	hopefully houston won't have any problems	13:24
wwoods	right on	13:26
wwoods	I'm still collecting stuff for the CommonBugs page	13:26
notting	do we have instructions for mirrors on torrent layout if they want to join at the start?	13:26
wwoods	please *email me* (so I have some stored record of it) if you've got a suggestion	13:26
f13	notting: I haven't seen any go by, no.	13:26
f13	so anything else, any other concerns or thoughts regarding F9 release?	13:28
mdomsch	notting, I haven't written anything	13:28
notting	f13: hm, the only thing i can think aren't rel-eng things (release notes, get-fedora, etc. in place)	13:30
f13	nod	13:30
stickster	release notes are being published this afternoon by Bart Couvreur (couf)	13:31
stickster	Tagged LIVE tomorrow morning ahead of release	13:31
f13	cool	13:31
notting	f13: the DVD torrents include a sha1sum file, the CD torrents do not. dunno if you care	13:31
f13	notting: I haven't generated the torrents yet.	13:32
couf	yep, I've got that covered	13:32
f13	notting: since it's the same file (SHA1) I just haven't copied it over to their respective directories yet	13:32
notting	f13: ah, the directories are still in staging	13:32
f13	yes	13:32
f13	alright, lets move on.	13:33
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora releng - post-f9		13:33
notting	f13: but, the layout is generally <torrent name>/<isos>, with a SHA1SUM file?	13:33
f13	notting: yes, the sha1 goes with the isos	13:33
f13	During our short "down" time before F10 alpha I'd like to get some things going.	13:33
f13	1) better use of our Trac space.  I completely forgot about it and had tickets all the way back to F9 alpha to close out	13:34
f13	We need to be better about using Trac, setting up milestones to group tickets and using them.  I'mg oing to follow the infrastructure's lead and use tickets as subjects for meetings too	13:34
f13	to make this more tot he point I'm hoping to get the email alias of rel-eng@ turned into a Trac ticket filing gateway	13:34
f13	so that tag requests and whatnot get a ticket and are better tracked (no pun)	13:35
f13	2) I'm getting an intern this summer, Casey Dahlin (he's worked with notting in the past on things like upstart).	13:36
f13	What I have planned for him involves things like new maintainer containment, perhaps some better tooling around non-responsive maintainers, maybe getting that Trac gateway thing implemented, and other potential things like Kopers (Koji Personal Repos)	13:37
f13	We could even start a milestone that is just for casey and start throwing some ideas in tickets for him	13:37
notting	heh, ideas	13:37
notting	a rel-eng special tagbot might be nice	13:37
notting	also, sigul	13:37
f13	yes, sigul.	13:37
f13	notting: getting to that (:	13:37
f13	3) Tool improvements	13:38
notting	f13: i have a 4) when you're ready	13:38
f13	sigul despretaly needs some work.  Mostly from my side of things (developing a client to frob koji to figure out what paths to throw at sigul to be signed)	13:38
f13	pungi is going to inherit splittree and pkgorder from anaconda-runtime and so I'll need to spend some time integrating the functionality of those into pungi code as the anaconda team is writing those tools off	13:39
f13	I also have some feature improvements planned for pungi that I hopefully can crank out in the first couple weeks.	13:39
f13	we could also use some tooling around releng tasks, such as tagging as notting eluded to, and things like automated tree validation.	13:40
f13	We have a migration queued up to go from FC6 based releng1 to RHEL5 based releng2.  Lots of code changes have been queued up for this, we just need to execute and clean up.	13:40
notting	lmacken: how much is the bodhi comment/karma code compartmentalized?	13:40
f13	and we have to find a public home for mightor, the quad G5 (which is currently broken) that IBM gave Fedora for ppc development.  We would really like to make this a public system for people to get ppc(64) mock time on.	13:41
f13	I really need to milestone and ticketify these things, which I'll work on over the next few days as I try to avoid any other work (:	13:41
f13	notting: you're go for 4)	13:41
lmacken	notting: I'm not quite sure what you mean.	13:42
notting	lmacken: i'll poke you on #fedora-devel in a bit	13:42
notting	4) releng1 -> RHEL 5. what's the status/timeline here?	13:42
notting	(alternatively, migration of releng1 -> releng2	13:42
f13	notting: I hope to see that done next week.	13:43
warren	what is it running now?	13:43
notting	fc6	13:43
f13	warren: FC6instine.	13:43
f13	notting: did you have more on that?	13:44
notting	f13: just that in doing so, we'll want to do the migration to mock for rawhide and clean up some of that stuff	13:44
f13	notting: right, that's all wrapped up in the move.	13:45
f13	notting: we'll get releng2 turned back on this week so we can continue testing some things before we make the cut over.	13:45
f13	alright.	13:45
f13	5) FUDCon BOS.  What all should releng do here?	13:45
f13	I've already signed up for one session, Package VCS 2.0	13:46
f13	a rational discussion with actual maintianers about what kind of things we want our VCS to be able to do and accomplish, without any flamewars about my SCM being better than your SCM	13:46
f13	a requirements gathering session if you will, that we can document and look to as we investigate new SCMs and workflow possibilies.	13:46
f13	possiblities.	13:47
f13	man I wish I could spell.	13:47
f13	possibilities.	13:47
f13	I'm going to try to write down some of the requirements I have in mind before the session to give us a starting point.  Once I have a wiki page up for that I would encourage all of you to add to it as you see fit	13:48
f13	but if ya'll have other ideas for things we can accomplish at FUDCon, I'm all ears/eyes.	13:48
f13	another thing on the horizon is SELinux vs chroots discussions	13:49
f13	I've successfully poked the bear by making some incorrect claims about SELinux and chroots and the positions of various people on the RH side of the fence vs the FEdora side and the NSA side.	13:50
f13	the end result is that discussions are happening again about the current difficulties of using things like livecd-creator on selinux enabled hosts and chroots	13:50
rdieter	maybe if you want more rel-eng help/contibutors, maybe have a short "hi, we're rel-eng, this is who we are and what we do, wanna join the bandwaggon?".	13:50
f13	with ideas being tossed about for resolutions to this.  These discussions could have pretty big impact into how we put distros together or even build packages, so we'll want to keep an eye on the development going on there.	13:50
f13	rdieter: that would be great!  I'd love to send something like that to blarney	13:51
f13	fedora-selinux-list is where the selinux vs chroots stuff is currently being discussed.  I have to go read the archives myself to catch up.  But if any of you are interested, please keep tabs as well.	13:51
f13	and one last thing from me on post-f9 stuff...	13:52
skvidal	f13: all the livecds up?	13:52
f13	I'm planning on running for the Fedora Board, and if I'm successful, I also plan to drop off of FESCo.  That would mean I'd like to see somebody officially represent releng to FESCo.	13:52
f13	skvidal: the content is there, I have to shuffle it around a bit and create the torrent metadata plus ini file.  THat's first on my todo list after this meeting.	13:53
skvidal	f13: I can do the torrent stuff	13:53
warren	where's the fesco nomination page?	13:53
skvidal	sorry, wrong channel	13:53
f13	skvidal: ok, great!  Lets talk after the meeting (:	13:53
lmacken	warren: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/SteeringCommittee/Nominations	13:54
notting	f13: doesn't fesco elect first?	13:54
warren	Foo Bar and Bar Foo are going to edge out some old timers.	13:54
f13	notting: no, I think board does.	13:54
f13	although I could be wrong...	13:55
notting	f13: board is june 13-22. fesco is 'third Tuesday after a Fedora release', which implies 3-10, or so	13:55
lmacken	hmm, i should probably run for FESCo	13:56
warren	lmacken: totally	13:56
f13	notting: ugh.  thought collision.	13:56
f13	I don't necessarily want to drop out of FESCo without having secured a board seat first.  Oh well, I'll figure something out.  But I"ll be more than happy to see somebody else run for FESCO	13:56
warren	I've been thinking about dropping out of FESCO as well, especially now that we're severely cutting the seats.	13:57
warren	(I was against cutting the seats this far.)	13:57
warren	we have trouble getting enough people to show up to talk about stuff as it is	13:57
rdieter	warren: fesco seats cut how much?	13:58
warren	isn't it going from 13 to 9?	13:58
warren	If we want to both let new people into FESCO but also maintain it as a relevant body, we need room for both old and new members.  Cutting it this much wont enable that.  Thus I rather step aside and help from the outside.	13:59
f13	alright, we're coming up on the hour mark.	14:00
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Releng - Open Floor		14:00
f13	the floor is open...	14:00
* warren falls through.		14:01
f13	heh, ok.  Thanks all for the meeting.  poelcat and thank you again, in advance, for the meeting notes!	14:02
f13	poelcat: this week is a big one to digest, let me know if you need any help boiling it down.	14:03
poelcat	f13: you're welcome; anything you want me to call out in particular or just take my normal stab at things? :)	14:05
f13	poelcat: your normal stab has been pretty accurate to date, so have at it!	14:05
poelcat	:)	14:06
poelcat	cool	14:06
poelcat	f13: or if there are areas needing stirring up, i could drop some dis-information in ;-)	14:06
poelcat	jk	14:06
jwb	ok	14:06
jwb	ah, crap	14:06
jwb	i totally missed the whole meeting, didn't i?	14:06
jwb	poelcat, feel free to note that i suck in the minutes	14:07
poelcat	jwb: the meeting is still open... so that will be memorialized in the irc transcript section :)	14:08
f13	jwb: there is plenty of scrollback for you to read	14:09
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule		14:09

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