Revision as of 19:46, 10 May 2010

Attendees

People present (lines said):

jlaska (115)
adamw (99)
Oxf13 (61)
kparal (44)
Viking-Ice (13)
zodbot (4)
robatino (3)
mether (2)
etank (1)

Regrets:

Agenda

Previous meeting follow-up

jlaska to migrate approved FAS 'qa' members into 'proventesters'
Completed, all approved qa group members are now members of proventesters
jlaska to request bodhi change to require 'proventesters' feedback for critpath
Completed, (see https://fedorahosted.org/bodhi/ticket/424). Change has been completed by lmacken, but not yet deployed

Fedora 13 RC#2 test status

Upcoming test milestones:

2010-05-05 - Final Blocker Meeting (f13blocker) #4 -- MISSED
2010-05-06 - Test 'Final' RC
2010-05-11 - Fedora 13 Final Go/No-Go Meeting (20:00 EST)
2010-05-12 - Fedora 13 Final Release Readiness Meeting

The group spent time reviewing the current F13Blocker bug list. At the time of the meeting, the following bugs were open for discussion ...

RHBZ #590466 - Lid "button" has no keycode

confusion as to the exact cause for this bug
AGREED - QA agreed that 590466 does not impact the release criteria and can be resolved in a future update

RHBZ #590640 - SystemError: (22, 'Invalid argument')

fails when testing with RHT Brno Fedora NFS mirror, but works when installing from local nfs exported DVD mount
unclear user impact, kparal will discuss further w/ clumens for insight
AGREED - unclear on impact to release criteria, leave on the list pending additional information
UPDATE - failure case is booting with a boot.iso and providing boot arguments: repo=nfs:<server>:<path>

RHBZ #590661 - GRUB bootloader should have a few seconds delay on a multi-boot setup

debatable whether this impacts the release criteria
current dual-boot criteria states -- "The installer must be able to install into free space alongside an existing clean single-partition Windows installation and either install a bootloader which can boot into the Windows installation, or leave the Windows bootloader untouched and working "
HELP: Confirm multi-OS bootloader configuration when installing F12
- bcl, jkeating and jlaska confirmed the change in behavior after the meeting
ACTION: identify if any bootloader config documentation exists
- Fedora 10 feature page (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/BetterStartup) documents change in grub boot menu
AGREED: 590661 - remains on the list, pending additional information to be presented @ go/no_go
- Submitted for FESCO review (see https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/377)

RHBZ #590666 - [abrt] crash in gnome-bluetooth-2.30.0-1.fc13: raise: Process /usr/bin/bluetooth-wizard was killed by signal 6 (SIGABRT)

AGREED - 590666 isn't blockery enough, we can document + fix with an update

??? - missing firmware packages on live images

Jkeating received reports about missing *-firmware packages on live images
The team was able to confirm expected *-firmware packages were available on live images.

Open discussion - <Your topic here>

Summer of Code

Kparal notified the group that a wiki page full of Summer of code project ideas is available --
Currently looking for feedback from anyone who has participated in summer of code as a student or mentor (see https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Summer_of_Code_Ideas)
Feedback needed by Wednesday, May 13, 2010.

Reporting on upstream project activity

Viking_Ice asked if there was any interest in reporting on upstream project activity. He noted that it would be nice to inform users whether a project is actively maintained, before they file or triage any incoming bugs for that package. General consensus was that this would be an interesting project, but there concerns were expressed about how to consistently measure "upstream activity" across projects.
Viking_Ice will wait until Fedora 13 testing calmed down, and follow-up to the list for feedback.

Upcoming QA events

2010-01-21 - Pre-Alpha Rawhide Acceptance Test Plan #1
2010-01-28 - Pre-Alpha Rawhide Acceptance Test Plan #2
2010-02-04 - Pre-Alpha Rawhide Acceptance Test Plan #3
2010-02-04 - NFSv4 Test Day
2010-02-05 - Alpha Blocker Meeting (F13Alpha) #1 (recap)
2010-02-11 - Test Alpha 'Test Compose' (boot media testing)
2010-02-12 - Alpha Blocker Meeting (F13Alpha) #2 (recap)
2010-02-12 - Alpha Test Candidate verification (announcement)
2010-02-18 - Alpha Release Candidate verification
2010-02-18 - Color Management test day
2010-02-19 - Alpha Blocker Meeting (F13Alpha) #3 (recap)
2010-02-24 - Alpha Go/No-Go Meeting (20:00 EST)
2010-02-25 - Yum Langpack plugin test day
2010-03-10 - Pre-Beta Acceptance Test Plan #1
2010-03-12 - Beta Blocker Meeting (F13Beta) #1 (recap)
2010-03-18 - Gnome Disk Utility Storage Test Day
2010-03-18 - Test Beta 'Test Compose' DELAYED
2010-03-19 - Beta Blocker Meeting (F13Beta) #2 (recap)
2010-03-25 - Test Beta Candidate
2010-03-25 - Printing Test Day
2010-03-26 - Beta Blocker Meeting (F13Beta) #3
2010-03-30 - SSSD by default Test Day
2010-03-31 - Beta Go/No-Go Meeting (20:00 EST)
2010-04-01 - ABRT Test Day
2010-04-08 - Virtualization Test Day
2010-04-13 - Test_Day:2010-04-13_Nouveau
2010-04-14 - Test_Day:2010-04-14_Radeon
2010-04-15 - Test_Day:2010-04-15_Intel
2010-04-16 - Final Blocker Meeting (f13blocker) #1 (recap)
2010-04-16 - Pre-RC Branched Acceptance Test Plan - DELAYED (see RHBZ #581794)
2010-04-22 - Test_Day:2010-04-22_StorageFiltering
2010-04-23 - Final Blocker Meeting (f13blocker) #2 (recap)
2010-04-29 - Test_Day:2010-04-29_Preupgrade
2010-04-29 - Test 'Final' Test Compose
2010-04-30 - Final Blocker Meeting (f13blocker) #3 (recap)
WE ARE HERE
2010-05-05 - Final Blocker Meeting (f13blocker) #4
2010-05-06 - Test 'Final' RC

Action items

IRC Transcript

jlaska	#startmeeting Fedora QA Meeting	15:00
zodbot	Meeting started Mon May 10 15:00:10 2010 UTC. The chair is jlaska. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.	15:00
zodbot	Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.	15:00
jlaska	#meetingname fedora-qa	15:00
zodbot	The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa'	15:00
jlaska	#topic Gathering critmass	15:00
jlaska	this will make for a quick meeting :)	15:01
* kparal arrives		15:02
jlaska	ah, kparal welcome	15:02
jlaska	adamw: wwoods: jskladan: robatino: maxamillion	15:02
kparal	jskladan seems to be still somewhere out	15:02
adamw	yo	15:02
jlaska	kparal: okay	15:03
jlaska	lemme check if wwoods is around	15:03
jlaska	not in yet	15:04
jlaska	okay, let's get this party started, wwoods and jskladan can join mid-meeting	15:04
etank	jlaska: quick meeting? that sounds promising :)	15:04
jlaska	etank: hey, welcome! :	15:04
jlaska	so yes ... short list of topics for today ... http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test/2010-May/090788.html	15:04
jlaska	so let's do quick review from last week	15:05
jlaska	#topic Preview meeting follow-up	15:06
jlaska	#info jlaska to migrate approved FAS 'qa' members into 'proventesters'	15:06
jlaska	this task is complete	15:06
jlaska	so now all approved members of 'qa' are now also approved 'proventesters'	15:07
jlaska	the next item was ...	15:07
jlaska	#info jlaska to request bodhi change to require 'proventesters' feedback for critpath	15:07
jlaska	I have requested an update to bodhi (see https://fedorahosted.org/bodhi/ticket/424)	15:07
adamw	'for f12 and earlier' i suppose	15:07
jlaska	lmacken quickly responded and has a fix in bodhi for this ... the fix has not yet been deployed	15:08
jlaska	adamw: does bodhi currently rely on QA feedback on critpath packages for F12 too?	15:08
adamw	oh wait never mind, was misparsing	15:09
jlaska	okay, that's all I've got from last week	15:09
jlaska	I'll need to catch up w/ lmacken once F-13 testing calms down to get a sense for when the deployment will go live	15:10
jlaska	we'll also kick the tires on further defining the proventesters workflow then	15:10
* jlaska got a txt from wwoods, he's delayed this morning		15:10
jlaska	okay, now for the big show ...	15:10
jlaska	#topic Fedora 13 RC#2 test status	15:10
* kparal adds fireworks		15:11
jlaska	#info upcoming milestone - 2010-05-11 - Fedora 13 Final Go/No-Go Meeting (20:00 EST)	15:11
jlaska	#info upcoming milestone - 2010-05-12 - Fedora 13 Final Release Readiness Meeting	15:11
jlaska	kparal: lots of starburts please! :)	15:11
jlaska	adamw: I misread the schedule, seems #4 blocker meeting was last Wed, not last Friday	15:12
jlaska	robatino: pointed this out last week, but I initially misread the schedule	15:12
adamw	ah, well, never mind	15:12
jlaska	want to hold a mini-blocker review of the current F13Blocker bugs now?	15:12
jlaska	otherwise, we can chase these down individually outside of the meeting	15:13
jlaska	#topic https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=590466	15:13
jlaska	did we lose bugbot?	15:14
kparal	is it not only in #fedora-qa?	15:14
adamw	sure, let's do a mini-review	15:14
adamw	there's some confusion about exact cause for this, but anyway, as I posted, i don't consider that a blocker. it can be fixed in an update.	15:14
jlaska	adamw and mgarrett have been talking through /topic issue	15:14
jlaska	nice to see someone testing on a macbook air :	15:15
jlaska	but yes, I'm +1 with that assessment	15:15
jlaska	I don't think Oxf13 is around yet for an additional vote	15:16
jlaska	adamw: how to you intend to proceed ... leave on the list pending feedback from RelEng, or remove from blocker now?	15:16
jlaska	#info confusion as to the exact cause for this bug	15:17
adamw	i figured we could leave all the nominees on to air at the go/no-go meeting, but i don't mind if we want to demote them now	15:17
jlaska	anything for a faster go/no-go meeting :)	15:17
adamw	okay, knock it off then	15:18
jlaska	okay, I'll update the bz after the meeting	15:18
adamw	i've just done it	15:18
jlaska	#agreed QA agreed that 590466 does not impact the release criteria and can be resolved in a future update	15:18
jlaska	adamw: fast fingers strikes again!	15:18
jlaska	#topic https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=590640	15:18
jlaska	kparal: this is one you encountered earlier today ... what's your estimated impact on this issue?	15:19
kparal	jlaska: well, I have seen it only when installing from NFS, and only from our local Brno mirror	15:20
kparal	installing from my own mirror worked well	15:20
kparal	the impact may be very low	15:20
jlaska	clumens looked into this issue, and was perplexed at what might cause the issue	15:21
adamw	seems a bit of an unknown quantity	15:21
adamw	and it's not super-easy to set up different NFS configs to test with :/	15:21
jlaska	kparal: I remember you uncovered some odd NFS access issues with the brno mirror while testing NFS repos in F12	15:21
adamw	can we get any more brainpower on it?	15:21
jlaska	clumens looked into it, I can ask him to summarize ... or see if dlehman might have other ideas	15:21
kparal	I'll work with clumens on resolving it now, hopefully it's just some local mirror problem	15:22
jlaska	#info fails when testing with RHT Brno Fedora NFS mirror, but works when installing from local nfs exported DVD mount	15:22
jlaska	#info unclear user impact, kparal will discuss further w/ clumens for insight	15:23
jlaska	if we can't pinpoint this one further, and no one else is able to hit the same conditions ... should we remove this from the list?	15:23
adamw	i think we should leave it for now	15:23
adamw	at least see if we can get better data before tomorrow	15:23
adamw	it worries me a little bit	15:23
jlaska	#agree 590640 - unclear on impact to release criteria, leave on the list pending additional information	15:24
jlaska	#agreed 590640 - unclear on impact to release criteria, leave on the list pending additional information	15:24
jlaska	#topic https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=590661	15:24
jlaska	adamw: this is your addition to the list?	15:25
jlaska	sorry no, mether added this	15:25
robatino	i suspect but am not sure this behaved the same in F12	15:25
Oxf13	I'm here now, but for another meeting.	15:26
adamw	mether thinks otherwise	15:26
adamw	i can probably try and test it	15:26
jlaska	Oxf13: welcome	15:26
adamw	though i'm not sure i actually have a windows CD handy here	15:26
jlaska	I can reinstall F-12 on a system that still has a windows partition	15:26
Oxf13	so this one you can work around by holding shift	15:26
jlaska	right	15:26
Oxf13	which is pretty similar to having to hold something to get the windows boot loader menu	15:27
jlaska	to clarify, this doesn't block the release criteria	15:27
jlaska	?	15:27
adamw	it's arguable	15:27
Oxf13	and depending on the bug, we might be able to fix this with post-release updates	15:27
Oxf13	but we might not.	15:27
adamw	"The installer must be able to install into free space alongside an existing clean single-partition Windows installation and either install a bootloader which can boot into the Windows installation, or leave the Windows bootloader untouched and working "	15:27
jlaska	adamw: is this a scenario where the intended behavior is unclear?	15:27
Oxf13	if this was the only thing left on the list, I'd be hard pressed to slip for it	15:27
adamw	Oxf13: that's kind of my feeling. it sucks a lot and i'd love to fix it, but it's hard to do a week slip for it	15:27
jlaska	adamw: hmm, I'm not sure it impacts that criteria	15:27
Oxf13	IIRC we were supposed to notice a chain-load and thus have a timeout	15:28
jlaska	is the method for accessing the bootloader screen documented?	15:28
adamw	yeah, like i said, arguable. _technically_, the criterion is satisfied	15:28
mether	adamw, is there a simple workaround or do the user have to edit grub.conf?	15:28
Oxf13	and I'm not sure if that's a grub feature, or an anaconda feature	15:28
robatino	grub.conf can be edited graphically with system-config-boot	15:28
Oxf13	mether: the simple work around is to hold shift while booting	15:28
* jlaska has another meeting in 1.5 minutes		15:28
adamw	but my intent when i wrote the criterion was more or less 'it should behave sanely when installing alongside windows', and this is fairly obvious dumb behaviour	15:28
jlaska	#chair kparal adamw	15:28
zodbot	Current chairs: adamw jlaska kparal	15:28
kparal	Oxf13: unfortunatelly Shift does not work on some PCs correctly, bios reports stuck key and halts	15:28
Oxf13	kparal: sure, if you hold it from boot on	15:29
Oxf13	kparal: you may have to tap it, or hold it from a later boot point	15:29
mether	adamw, I would argue that the listed criteria makes the bug a blocker	15:29
Oxf13	just like trying to access the windows boot loader	15:29
adamw	Oxf13: right, which gets finicky.	15:29
Oxf13	or the apple boot loader	15:29
jlaska	does someone have a link to documentation for how to access grub menu?	15:29
adamw	jlaska: sec	15:29
Oxf13	there should be plenty given we went to a 0 timeout a couple releases ago	15:29
jlaska	#info debatable whether this impacts the release criteria	15:30
robatino	system-config-boot is installed by default in a graphical install, it can be used to change the timeout	15:30
jlaska	#info current dual-boot criteria states -- "The installer must be able to install into free space alongside an existing clean single-partition Windows installation and either install a bootloader which can boot into the Windows installation, or leave the Windows bootloader untouched and working "	15:31
adamw	Oxf13: i'm not convinced this behaved the same in f12, i'd really like to check that. remember, we found out the telnet similar bug was a regression from f12.	15:31
jlaska	let's get testing on that	15:31
jlaska	#help Confirm multi-OS bootloader configuration when installing F12	15:31
adamw	i can't find any documentation of this in f12 or f13 release notes or f12 user guide or any common bugs page	15:31
Oxf13	adamw: I don't believe it behaved the same in F12	15:31
Oxf13	adamw: at least in dualboot scenario	15:31
adamw	oh, i see, just general documentation for getting into bootloader	15:32
Oxf13	outside of dual boot we indeed had a 0 second timeout for grub	15:32
adamw	i'm not sure we ever actually wrote anything down	15:32
adamw	probably a question for the docs team, though.	15:32
Oxf13	well, outside of dual boot and serial	15:32
adamw	i'm sure i never put it in commonbugs, though.	15:32
Oxf13	because 0 second timeout isn't a bug	15:32
jlaska	okay, so what's left on this	15:32
Oxf13	it's a feature	15:32
adamw	i think we should discuss this at go/no-go tomorrow	15:32
jlaska	more testing ... and possible documentation of this behavior change?	15:32
adamw	since it's clearly a tricky one to make a call on	15:32
jlaska	present findings @ go/no_go meeting tomorrow?	15:33
adamw	and yes, check if this is a regression from f12, and definitely document it if we don't slip for it	15:33
jlaska	okay ...	15:33
jlaska	#action help testing dual-boot behavior in F12	15:33
jlaska	#action identify if any bootloader config documentation exists	15:33
* adamw feels dumb, as he noticed this when he installed f13 on this system two weeks ago but never really thought about yelling about it		15:33
adamw	sigh	15:33
jlaska	#agreed 590661 - remains on the list, pending additional information to be presented @ go/no_go	15:33
jlaska	#topic https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=590666	15:34
jlaska	this is the last bug on the list	15:34
Oxf13	I have more.	15:34
jlaska	Oxf13: okay	15:34
jlaska	adamw: kparal: you have #chair ... /me dual-meeting	15:35
kparal	adamw: please take this if you can	15:35
Oxf13	"take this" ?	15:35
kparal	the chair	15:35
Oxf13	ah	15:35
adamw	uh	15:36
adamw	let's see	15:36
adamw	bastien nominated this and the lid issue, apparently under the impression we could 'fix it in gold', after I chatted to him	15:36
adamw	i explained there's no possibility of that, either we ship rc2 or slip, and he was okay with dropping this one as a blocker too	15:37
adamw	but of course we can decide we want to slip for it.	15:37
adamw	i believe the impact is basically that you can't do tethering with a Bluetooth phone via DUN (which is an F13 feature), until NetworkManager gets fixed	15:37
adamw	obviously this is quite easy to fix with an update, but it _is_ an F13 feature we're going to ship completely broken.	15:37
adamw	so, that's the scenario...thoughts?	15:38
Oxf13	is it all phones, or just specific ones?	15:38
Oxf13	or all bluetooth phone connectivity or just a few?	15:38
adamw	it's specific to tethering (using the phone as a modem) via Bluetooth DUN	15:38
adamw	it shouldn't affect other things you can do with a phone via bluetooth (transferring files and whatnot)	15:38
adamw	and I believe it doesn't affect Bluetooth PAN tethering (that's another way of tethering via Bluetooth, there's two mechanisms, most phones just support one or the other), though i don't think we've directly tested that	15:39
adamw	i think it affects all phones, but not 100% sure; dcbw should know, of course	15:39
adamw	dan's not around at present it seems, i can ask for a more precise impact assessment in the bug	15:40
jlaska	was it already mentioned what the release criteria impacted was?	15:41
Oxf13	I don't think it impacts release criteria	15:41
Oxf13	it's just that DUN was a feature	15:41
Oxf13	which means that there isn't a regression from 12	15:42
adamw	i mean, we could theoretically argue it breaks the critpath if your only internet connection is a cellphone and your only way to tether with it is bluetooth, but that's rather farfetched	15:42
adamw	so it's mostly just the feature thing.	15:42
Oxf13	yeah	15:43
adamw	i'm probably okay with just document+fix in an update for this, really.	15:43
Oxf13	and I'm ok with fixing this in updates	15:43
jlaska	+1	15:44
adamw	okay, let's demote it then	15:45
adamw	i'll take care of that	15:45
adamw	#agreed 590666 isn't blockery enough, we can document + fix with an update	15:45
adamw	#topic YOUR_BUG_HERE	15:45
adamw	so, oxf13?	15:45
adamw	you said you had something to add	15:47
* kparal pinging Oxf13\		15:49
* adamw pings oxf13 with the giant hammer o' pain		15:49
Oxf13	sorry, in a second meeting	15:49
Oxf13	I got a report that our live images, at least the desktop one, doesn't have kernel-firmware on it, and as such many devices don't work	15:49
Oxf13	no bug yet, somebody shoudl file one	15:49
Oxf13	but this I do believe is just a config change, but may have space concerns	15:49
adamw	ouch, that is something i'd want to respin for	15:50
Oxf13	although I don't have kernel-firmware installed here., just a tic	15:50
adamw	Size : 8165344	15:50
adamw	that's 8MB right?	15:50
kparal	yep	15:50
Oxf13	hrm, I have "linux-firmware"	15:50
adamw	that'd give kde spin a few probs, but kde team did identify some packages we can lose from that without having trouble	15:50
Oxf13	and a bunch of individual firmware files.	15:50
Oxf13	this is just one report though, not confirmed	15:50
Oxf13	this person was complaining about intel wireless not working, which I think is managed in a different -firmware package	15:51
adamw	okay, so we need more info on this	15:51
adamw	what firmware packages do we have, which of them are on the live images	15:51
adamw	anyone can boot the desktop live quick and take a look?	15:51
Oxf13	and it looks like a ton of firmware goes into the live images.	15:52
Oxf13	actually I'd rather have the reporter do some investigation, because from the look of the package set, it should be fine	15:52
adamw	okay	15:52
* kparal booting live image		15:52
adamw	where's the report here?	15:52
Oxf13	so the reporter may ahve jumped to the wrong conclusion	15:52
Oxf13	there isn't, it was sent to me as a facebook email. sigh	15:52
adamw	heh	15:53
adamw	next up, the Twitter bug report	15:53
adamw	'it duznt work LOL'	15:53
kparal	so, do you want to know something from live image?	15:53
adamw	kparal: a quick rpm -qa \| grep firmware maybe	15:53
Oxf13	linux-firmware is on the live image too	15:54
Oxf13	adamw: I already got that	15:54
adamw	ah	15:54
Oxf13	I have the logs from the compose.	15:54
adamw	intel firmwares should be iwl-*-firmware i think	15:54
Oxf13	there is plenty of firmware, this reporter is on crack	15:54
adamw	iwl*-firmware	15:54
adamw	and ipw*-firmware	15:54
kparal	adamw: http://fpaste.org/yWgt/	15:55
Oxf13	I think I'm calling this a non-issue	15:55
kparal	fc12 package, interesting	15:55
Oxf13	until I get more feedback from reporter	15:55
* Viking-Ice sneaks in late..		15:55
Oxf13	kparal: firmware doesn't change that often.	15:55
adamw	that sure looks like all the intel firmware's there.	15:55
* kparal could have sorted it		15:56
adamw	and all the other things i recognize as major wireless firmware, at a glance	15:56
adamw	kparal: yeah, never mind though =)	15:56
adamw	Oxf13: is it the same on KDE spin?	15:56
Oxf13	yes	15:57
* jlaska back from meeting		15:57
Oxf13	the firmware stuff likely comes in from the fedora-live-base	15:57
adamw	then i agree, non-issue	15:57
adamw	tell your reporter to lay off the crack pipe =)	15:57
jlaska	so #agreed on this?	15:57
Oxf13	I'm still curious as to why his intel wifi didn't come up, but it's certainly not because of a missing firmware package	15:57
adamw	Oxf13: yeah.	15:57
adamw	#agreed the report oxf13 received about missing firmware on live images appears to be crack	15:57
adamw	anyone else have a potential blocker issue to bring up?	15:58
Oxf13	there are a number of spin-kickstart changes that went in over the weekend	15:58
Oxf13	one of which touches on fedora-live-base, which would mean every livecd I've made would have to be re-spun	15:58
Oxf13	I need to review the change and discuss it with the developer to see what's going on here.	15:58
Oxf13	I'm quite a bit disturbed at all the late changes to spin-kickstarts	15:59
jlaska	Oxf13: could that git repo benefit from release specific branches?	15:59
adamw	that does seem silly. perhaps we should have a freeze on spin-kickstarts close to RC time.	15:59
Oxf13	and to make moblin work, they need an updated package or two, which should only exist on the moblin spin (and the everything repo) so tagging those isn't a big deal.	15:59
Oxf13	adamw: we do, the problem is lack of testing until RC time	15:59
adamw	ah :)	16:00
Oxf13	to be fair, I announced "get your spins working" rather late	16:00
jlaska	Anyone have any non-bug discuss topics today?	16:00
kparal	jlaska: summer of code	16:01
adamw	#topic open floor	16:01
adamw	#topic open floor: summer of code	16:01
adamw	go for it, kparal	16:01
kparal	ok	16:02
kparal	as you may be know, there's Fedora's Summer Coding 2010: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Summer_Coding_2010	16:02
kparal	there are already quite some ideas proposed: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Summer_Coding_2010_ideas	16:02
kparal	our QA team created a few proposals themselves: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Summer_of_Code_Ideas	16:03
* jlaska has to flesh out a few more ideas		16:03
kparal	we would act as a mentors for students implementing those ideas	16:03
kparal	the problem is we don't know how many resources this effort would need	16:04
kparal	so, it really needs someone devoted and enthusiastic for this matter :)	16:04
kparal	a lot of our proposals don't have any mentor	16:04
* Viking-Ice got one after kparal finishes		16:04
adamw	so we'd like mentors and possibly students for the QA ideas?	16:05
kparal	so if there is someone, who would like to mentor some of them (or propose some other idea from QA world), that would be fantastic	16:05
kparal	yes, we need to find mentors amongst ourselves	16:05
kparal	and then find students :)	16:05
kparal	or the students should rather find us	16:05
kparal	we would blog about the opportunities etc	16:06
kparal	the deadline for ideas is May 13th	16:06
kparal	and then another week for student applications	16:06
adamw	that's three days, for the temporally vague =)	16:06
kparal	so, anyone got really really interested? :)	16:06
kparal	it would mean creating a detailed description for a chosen idea or creating your own	16:07
* adamw just wants to finish f13 release then crawl into a corner and die quietly		16:07
kparal	and then mentoring a student over holidays	16:07
kparal	(July, August)	16:07
jlaska	anyone have experience mentoring (or as a student) on a summer of code project?	16:08
kparal	good question, thanks jlaska	16:08
adamw	nope	16:09
jlaska	#help if you have experience (as a student or mentor) with Summer of code, please contact the QA team	16:09
kparal	well, seems like no response to me...	16:10
Oxf13	I have no time to spend on it this summer	16:10
* jlaska just unsure what is required ... would love to hear back from someone who participated in such an event in the past		16:11
adamw	sorry, i'm sort of interested but also frazzled from f13 cycle and behind on other things, so it's hard to get motivated to go and look at this now	16:11
kparal	alright. if we don't find a voluteer for mentoring, then I think it will have to wait for some other time	16:12
adamw	you can put a call out on the list	16:12
jlaska	on a positive note, we now have a place to start collecting project ideas for anyone interested in getting involved in Fedora QA	16:12
kparal	#link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Summer_of_Code_Ideas	16:13
jlaska	Shall we move on to Viking-Ice's discussion topic?	16:14
Viking-Ice	Ok.. I think we need to know which packages we ship contain dead or little to no active upstream and perhaps warn users on install time and let reporters and bugzappers know about those. I do believe we are wasting of everybody's time dealing with theses packages..	16:14
jlaska	#topic open floor: reporting on upstream activity	16:15
jlaska	Viking-Ice: how do you measure upstream activity?	16:15
adamw	sounds more like a development topic to me...	16:15
adamw	i'd quite like something like this too, but it's quite icky to automate, as there's almost as many organization systems for upstream projects as there are upstream projects	16:16
Viking-Ice	jlaska: commits $ time .	16:16
Viking-Ice	adamw: packagers burden to keep track on..	16:17
Viking-Ice	packagers know ( or atleast should know ) if upstream is dead or not	16:17
jlaska	it's a clever idea, seems worth a proposal that outlines the scope of the problem, severel methods for reporting on upstream health ... and circulating around devel@ ?	16:18
jlaska	it would seem hard to device an accurate heuristic that would work ... but it's an interesting idea	16:18
Viking-Ice	Well we actually need also to get some bugzilla activity stats got go with it..	16:19
kparal	maybe just bugzilla could allow to mark some components as "with dead upstream" and particular maintainer could trigger that setting?	16:19
Viking-Ice	How much resource are we spending in dealing with dead upstream	16:19
kparal	and then it would be shown to bug reporters	16:19
jlaska	Viking-Ice: yeah, not a bad project idea ... just needs someone to define the problem space and pull together some recommended solutions for review?	16:20
jlaska	Viking-Ice: were you volunteering, or just looking for feedback on the idea?	16:20
Viking-Ice	kparal: I think this needs to be flag at install time so if a end user hits a bug he can be assured there's no point in reporting it	16:20
Viking-Ice	Vikings-Ice: just in feed back stage at the moment..	16:21
jlaska	Viking-Ice: okay	16:21
jlaska	if there's nothing else for today ... let's close out the meeting	16:21
jlaska	(1 minute from #endmeeting)	16:21
Viking-Ice	If this is a generally considered a good idea for #future to work on..	16:22
adamw	it'd certainly be good to have it, yep.	16:22
jlaska	yeah, is this a common request from maintainers of dead upstream projects?	16:22
jlaska	good discussion to take to the list	16:23
jlaska	list(s)	16:23
jlaska	endmeeting extended ... closing in 30 seconds	16:23
Viking-Ice	this is a packagers burden so let's wait for other things to cool down first ;)	16:23
Viking-Ice	on "the" list first	16:23
jlaska	sounds like a plan	16:24
jlaska	okay folks ... thanks for your time	16:24
jlaska	kparal: adamw: thanks for the #chair assistance	16:24
jlaska	#endmeeting	16:24

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