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* Kparal notified the group that a wiki page full of Summer of code project ideas is available --
* Kparal notified the group that a wiki page full of Summer of code project ideas is available --
* Currently looking for feedback from anyone who has participated in summer of code as a student or mentor (see https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Summer_of_Code_Ideas)
* Currently looking for feedback from anyone who has participated in summer of code as a student or mentor (see [[QA:Summer_of_Code_Ideas)]]
* Feedback needed by Wednesday, May 13, 2010.
* Feedback needed by Wednesday, May 13, 2010.


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! style="background-color: #818144" | kparal
! style="background-color: #818144" | kparal
| style="color: #818144" | our QA team created a few proposals themselves: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Summer_of_Code_Ideas
| style="color: #818144" | our QA team created a few proposals themselves: [[QA:Summer_of_Code_Ideas]]
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! style="background-color: #818144" | kparal
! style="background-color: #818144" | kparal
| style="color: #818144" | #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Summer_of_Code_Ideas
| style="color: #818144" | #link [[QA:Summer_of_Code_Ideas]]
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|- id="t16:14:32"
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Latest revision as of 09:02, 18 September 2016

Attendees

People present (lines said):

  • jlaska (115)
  • adamw (99)
  • Oxf13 (61)
  • kparal (44)
  • Viking-Ice (13)
  • zodbot (4)
  • robatino (3)
  • mether (2)
  • etank (1)

Regrets:

Agenda

Previous meeting follow-up

  1. jlaska to migrate approved FAS 'qa' members into 'proventesters'
    Completed, all approved qa group members are now members of proventesters
  2. jlaska to request bodhi change to require 'proventesters' feedback for critpath
    Completed, (see https://fedorahosted.org/bodhi/ticket/424). Change has been completed by lmacken, but not yet deployed

Fedora 13 RC#2 test status

Upcoming test milestones:

  • 2010-05-05 - Final Blocker Meeting (f13blocker) #4 -- MISSED
  • 2010-05-06 - Test 'Final' RC
  • 2010-05-11 - Fedora 13 Final Go/No-Go Meeting (20:00 EST)
  • 2010-05-12 - Fedora 13 Final Release Readiness Meeting

The group spent time reviewing the current F13Blocker bug list. At the time of the meeting, the following bugs were open for discussion ...

RHBZ #590466 - Lid "button" has no keycode

  • confusion as to the exact cause for this bug
  • AGREED - QA agreed that 590466 does not impact the release criteria and can be resolved in a future update

RHBZ #590640 - SystemError: (22, 'Invalid argument')

  • fails when testing with RHT Brno Fedora NFS mirror, but works when installing from local nfs exported DVD mount
  • unclear user impact, kparal will discuss further w/ clumens for insight
  • AGREED - unclear on impact to release criteria, leave on the list pending additional information
    UPDATE - failure case is booting with a boot.iso and providing boot arguments: repo=nfs:<server>:<path>

RHBZ #590661 - GRUB bootloader should have a few seconds delay on a multi-boot setup

  • debatable whether this impacts the release criteria
  • current dual-boot criteria states -- "The installer must be able to install into free space alongside an existing clean single-partition Windows installation and either install a bootloader which can boot into the Windows installation, or leave the Windows bootloader untouched and working "
  • HELP: Confirm multi-OS bootloader configuration when installing F12
    • bcl, jkeating and jlaska confirmed the change in behavior after the meeting
  • ACTION: identify if any bootloader config documentation exists
  • AGREED: 590661 - remains on the list, pending additional information to be presented @ go/no_go

RHBZ #590666 - [abrt] crash in gnome-bluetooth-2.30.0-1.fc13: raise: Process /usr/bin/bluetooth-wizard was killed by signal 6 (SIGABRT)

  • AGREED - 590666 isn't blockery enough, we can document + fix with an update

??? - missing firmware packages on live images

  • Jkeating received reports about missing *-firmware packages on live images
  • The team was able to confirm expected *-firmware packages were available on live images.

Open discussion - <Your topic here>

Summer of Code

  • Kparal notified the group that a wiki page full of Summer of code project ideas is available --
  • Currently looking for feedback from anyone who has participated in summer of code as a student or mentor (see QA:Summer_of_Code_Ideas)
  • Feedback needed by Wednesday, May 13, 2010.

Reporting on upstream project activity

  • Viking_Ice asked if there was any interest in reporting on upstream project activity. He noted that it would be nice to inform users whether a project is actively maintained, before they file or triage any incoming bugs for that package. General consensus was that this would be an interesting project, but there concerns were expressed about how to consistently measure "upstream activity" across projects.
  • Viking_Ice will wait until Fedora 13 testing calmed down, and follow-up to the list for feedback.

Upcoming QA events

Action items

IRC Transcript

jlaska #startmeeting Fedora QA Meeting 15:00
zodbot Meeting started Mon May 10 15:00:10 2010 UTC. The chair is jlaska. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 15:00
zodbot Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 15:00
jlaska #meetingname fedora-qa 15:00
zodbot The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa' 15:00
jlaska #topic Gathering critmass 15:00
jlaska this will make for a quick meeting :) 15:01
* kparal arrives 15:02
jlaska ah, kparal welcome 15:02
jlaska adamw: wwoods: jskladan: robatino: maxamillion 15:02
kparal jskladan seems to be still somewhere out 15:02
adamw yo 15:02
jlaska kparal: okay 15:03
jlaska lemme check if wwoods is around 15:03
jlaska not in yet 15:04
jlaska okay, let's get this party started, wwoods and jskladan can join mid-meeting 15:04
etank jlaska: quick meeting? that sounds promising :) 15:04
jlaska etank: hey, welcome! : 15:04
jlaska so yes ... short list of topics for today ... http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test/2010-May/090788.html 15:04
jlaska so let's do quick review from last week 15:05
jlaska #topic Preview meeting follow-up 15:06
jlaska #info jlaska to migrate approved FAS 'qa' members into 'proventesters' 15:06
jlaska this task is complete 15:06
jlaska so now all approved members of 'qa' are now also approved 'proventesters' 15:07
jlaska the next item was ... 15:07
jlaska #info jlaska to request bodhi change to require 'proventesters' feedback for critpath 15:07
jlaska I have requested an update to bodhi (see https://fedorahosted.org/bodhi/ticket/424) 15:07
adamw 'for f12 and earlier' i suppose 15:07
jlaska lmacken quickly responded and has a fix in bodhi for this ... the fix has not yet been deployed 15:08
jlaska adamw: does bodhi currently rely on QA feedback on critpath packages for F12 too? 15:08
adamw oh wait never mind, was misparsing 15:09
jlaska okay, that's all I've got from last week 15:09
jlaska I'll need to catch up w/ lmacken once F-13 testing calms down to get a sense for when the deployment will go live 15:10
jlaska we'll also kick the tires on further defining the proventesters workflow then 15:10
* jlaska got a txt from wwoods, he's delayed this morning 15:10
jlaska okay, now for the big show ... 15:10
jlaska #topic Fedora 13 RC#2 test status 15:10
* kparal adds fireworks 15:11
jlaska #info upcoming milestone - 2010-05-11 - Fedora 13 Final Go/No-Go Meeting (20:00 EST) 15:11
jlaska #info upcoming milestone - 2010-05-12 - Fedora 13 Final Release Readiness Meeting 15:11
jlaska kparal: lots of starburts please! :) 15:11
jlaska adamw: I misread the schedule, seems #4 blocker meeting was last Wed, not last Friday 15:12
jlaska robatino: pointed this out last week, but I initially misread the schedule 15:12
adamw ah, well, never mind 15:12
jlaska want to hold a mini-blocker review of the current F13Blocker bugs now? 15:12
jlaska otherwise, we can chase these down individually outside of the meeting 15:13
jlaska #topic https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=590466 15:13
jlaska did we lose bugbot? 15:14
kparal is it not only in #fedora-qa? 15:14
adamw sure, let's do a mini-review 15:14
adamw there's some confusion about exact cause for this, but anyway, as I posted, i don't consider that a blocker. it can be fixed in an update. 15:14
jlaska adamw and mgarrett have been talking through /topic issue 15:14
jlaska nice to see someone testing on a macbook air : 15:15
jlaska but yes, I'm +1 with that assessment 15:15
jlaska I don't think Oxf13 is around yet for an additional vote 15:16
jlaska adamw: how to you intend to proceed ... leave on the list pending feedback from RelEng, or remove from blocker now? 15:16
jlaska #info confusion as to the exact cause for this bug 15:17
adamw i figured we could leave all the nominees on to air at the go/no-go meeting, but i don't mind if we want to demote them now 15:17
jlaska anything for a faster go/no-go meeting :) 15:17
adamw okay, knock it off then 15:18
jlaska okay, I'll update the bz after the meeting 15:18
adamw i've just done it 15:18
jlaska #agreed QA agreed that 590466 does not impact the release criteria and can be resolved in a future update 15:18
jlaska adamw: fast fingers strikes again! 15:18
jlaska #topic https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=590640 15:18
jlaska kparal: this is one you encountered earlier today ... what's your estimated impact on this issue? 15:19
kparal jlaska: well, I have seen it only when installing from NFS, and only from our local Brno mirror 15:20
kparal installing from my own mirror worked well 15:20
kparal the impact may be very low 15:20
jlaska clumens looked into this issue, and was perplexed at what might cause the issue 15:21
adamw seems a bit of an unknown quantity 15:21
adamw and it's not super-easy to set up different NFS configs to test with :/ 15:21
jlaska kparal: I remember you uncovered some odd NFS access issues with the brno mirror while testing NFS repos in F12 15:21
adamw can we get any more brainpower on it? 15:21
jlaska clumens looked into it, I can ask him to summarize ... or see if dlehman might have other ideas 15:21
kparal I'll work with clumens on resolving it now, hopefully it's just some local mirror problem 15:22
jlaska #info fails when testing with RHT Brno Fedora NFS mirror, but works when installing from local nfs exported DVD mount 15:22
jlaska #info unclear user impact, kparal will discuss further w/ clumens for insight 15:23
jlaska if we can't pinpoint this one further, and no one else is able to hit the same conditions ... should we remove this from the list? 15:23
adamw i think we should leave it for now 15:23
adamw at least see if we can get better data before tomorrow 15:23
adamw it worries me a little bit 15:23
jlaska #agree 590640 - unclear on impact to release criteria, leave on the list pending additional information 15:24
jlaska #agreed 590640 - unclear on impact to release criteria, leave on the list pending additional information 15:24
jlaska #topic https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=590661 15:24
jlaska adamw: this is your addition to the list? 15:25
jlaska sorry no, mether added this 15:25
robatino i suspect but am not sure this behaved the same in F12 15:25
Oxf13 I'm here now, but for another meeting. 15:26
adamw mether thinks otherwise 15:26
adamw i can probably try and test it 15:26
jlaska Oxf13: welcome 15:26
adamw though i'm not sure i actually have a windows CD handy here 15:26
jlaska I can reinstall F-12 on a system that still has a windows partition 15:26
Oxf13 so this one you can work around by holding shift 15:26
jlaska right 15:26
Oxf13 which is pretty similar to having to hold something to get the windows boot loader menu 15:27
jlaska to clarify, this doesn't block the release criteria 15:27
jlaska ? 15:27
adamw it's arguable 15:27
Oxf13 and depending on the bug, we might be able to fix this with post-release updates 15:27
Oxf13 but we might not. 15:27
adamw "The installer must be able to install into free space alongside an existing clean single-partition Windows installation and either install a bootloader which can boot into the Windows installation, or leave the Windows bootloader untouched and working " 15:27
jlaska adamw: is this a scenario where the intended behavior is unclear? 15:27
Oxf13 if this was the only thing left on the list, I'd be hard pressed to slip for it 15:27
adamw Oxf13: that's kind of my feeling. it sucks a lot and i'd love to fix it, but it's hard to do a week slip for it 15:27
jlaska adamw: hmm, I'm not sure it impacts that criteria 15:27
Oxf13 IIRC we were supposed to notice a chain-load and thus have a timeout 15:28
jlaska is the method for accessing the bootloader screen documented? 15:28
adamw yeah, like i said, arguable. _technically_, the criterion is satisfied 15:28
mether adamw, is there a simple workaround or do the user have to edit grub.conf? 15:28
Oxf13 and I'm not sure if that's a grub feature, or an anaconda feature 15:28
robatino grub.conf can be edited graphically with system-config-boot 15:28
Oxf13 mether: the simple work around is to hold shift while booting 15:28
* jlaska has another meeting in 1.5 minutes 15:28
adamw but my intent when i wrote the criterion was more or less 'it should behave sanely when installing alongside windows', and this is fairly obvious dumb behaviour 15:28
jlaska #chair kparal adamw 15:28
zodbot Current chairs: adamw jlaska kparal 15:28
kparal Oxf13: unfortunatelly Shift does not work on some PCs correctly, bios reports stuck key and halts 15:28
Oxf13 kparal: sure, if you hold it from boot on 15:29
Oxf13 kparal: you may have to tap it, or hold it from a later boot point 15:29
mether adamw, I would argue that the listed criteria makes the bug a blocker 15:29
Oxf13 just like trying to access the windows boot loader 15:29
adamw Oxf13: right, which gets finicky. 15:29
Oxf13 or the apple boot loader 15:29
jlaska does someone have a link to documentation for how to access grub menu? 15:29
adamw jlaska: sec 15:29
Oxf13 there should be plenty given we went to a 0 timeout a couple releases ago 15:29
jlaska #info debatable whether this impacts the release criteria 15:30
robatino system-config-boot is installed by default in a graphical install, it can be used to change the timeout 15:30
jlaska #info current dual-boot criteria states -- "The installer must be able to install into free space alongside an existing clean single-partition Windows installation and either install a bootloader which can boot into the Windows installation, or leave the Windows bootloader untouched and working " 15:31
adamw Oxf13: i'm not convinced this behaved the same in f12, i'd really like to check that. remember, we found out the telnet similar bug was a regression from f12. 15:31
jlaska let's get testing on that 15:31
jlaska #help Confirm multi-OS bootloader configuration when installing F12 15:31
adamw i can't find any documentation of this in f12 or f13 release notes or f12 user guide or any common bugs page 15:31
Oxf13 adamw: I don't believe it behaved the same in F12 15:31
Oxf13 adamw: at least in dualboot scenario 15:31
adamw oh, i see, just general documentation for getting into bootloader 15:32
Oxf13 outside of dual boot we indeed had a 0 second timeout for grub 15:32
adamw i'm not sure we ever actually wrote anything down 15:32
adamw probably a question for the docs team, though. 15:32
Oxf13 well, outside of dual boot and serial 15:32
adamw i'm sure i never put it in commonbugs, though. 15:32
Oxf13 because 0 second timeout isn't a bug 15:32
jlaska okay, so what's left on this 15:32
Oxf13 it's a feature 15:32
adamw i think we should discuss this at go/no-go tomorrow 15:32
jlaska more testing ... and possible documentation of this behavior change? 15:32
adamw since it's clearly a tricky one to make a call on 15:32
jlaska present findings @ go/no_go meeting tomorrow? 15:33
adamw and yes, check if this is a regression from f12, and definitely document it if we don't slip for it 15:33
jlaska okay ... 15:33
jlaska #action help testing dual-boot behavior in F12 15:33
jlaska #action identify if any bootloader config documentation exists 15:33
* adamw feels dumb, as he noticed this when he installed f13 on this system two weeks ago but never really thought about yelling about it 15:33
adamw sigh 15:33
jlaska #agreed 590661 - remains on the list, pending additional information to be presented @ go/no_go 15:33
jlaska #topic https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=590666 15:34
jlaska this is the last bug on the list 15:34
Oxf13 I have more. 15:34
jlaska Oxf13: okay 15:34
jlaska adamw: kparal: you have #chair ... /me dual-meeting 15:35
kparal adamw: please take this if you can 15:35
Oxf13 "take this" ? 15:35
kparal the chair 15:35
Oxf13 ah 15:35
adamw uh 15:36
adamw let's see 15:36
adamw bastien nominated this and the lid issue, apparently under the impression we could 'fix it in gold', after I chatted to him 15:36
adamw i explained there's no possibility of that, either we ship rc2 or slip, and he was okay with dropping this one as a blocker too 15:37
adamw but of course we can decide we want to slip for it. 15:37
adamw i believe the impact is basically that you can't do tethering with a Bluetooth phone via DUN (which is an F13 feature), until NetworkManager gets fixed 15:37
adamw obviously this is quite easy to fix with an update, but it _is_ an F13 feature we're going to ship completely broken. 15:37
adamw so, that's the scenario...thoughts? 15:38
Oxf13 is it all phones, or just specific ones? 15:38
Oxf13 or all bluetooth phone connectivity or just a few? 15:38
adamw it's specific to tethering (using the phone as a modem) via Bluetooth DUN 15:38
adamw it shouldn't affect other things you can do with a phone via bluetooth (transferring files and whatnot) 15:38
adamw and I believe it doesn't affect Bluetooth PAN tethering (that's another way of tethering via Bluetooth, there's two mechanisms, most phones just support one or the other), though i don't think we've directly tested that 15:39
adamw i *think* it affects all phones, but not 100% sure; dcbw should know, of course 15:39
adamw dan's not around at present it seems, i can ask for a more precise impact assessment in the bug 15:40
jlaska was it already mentioned what the release criteria impacted was? 15:41
Oxf13 I don't think it impacts release criteria 15:41
Oxf13 it's just that DUN was a feature 15:41
Oxf13 which means that there isn't a regression from 12 15:42
adamw i mean, we could theoretically argue it breaks the critpath if your only internet connection is a cellphone and your only way to tether with it is bluetooth, but that's rather farfetched 15:42
adamw so it's mostly just the feature thing. 15:42
Oxf13 yeah 15:43
adamw i'm probably okay with just document+fix in an update for this, really. 15:43
Oxf13 and I'm ok with fixing this in updates 15:43
jlaska +1 15:44
adamw okay, let's demote it then 15:45
adamw i'll take care of that 15:45
adamw #agreed 590666 isn't blockery enough, we can document + fix with an update 15:45
adamw #topic YOUR_BUG_HERE 15:45
adamw so, oxf13? 15:45
adamw you said you had something to add 15:47
* kparal pinging Oxf13\ 15:49
* adamw pings oxf13 with the giant hammer o' pain 15:49
Oxf13 sorry, in a second meeting 15:49
Oxf13 I got a report that our live images, at least the desktop one, doesn't have kernel-firmware on it, and as such many devices don't work 15:49
Oxf13 no bug yet, somebody shoudl file one 15:49
Oxf13 but this I do believe is just a config change, but may have space concerns 15:49
adamw ouch, that is something i'd want to respin for 15:50
Oxf13 although I don't have kernel-firmware installed here., just a tic 15:50
adamw Size  : 8165344 15:50
adamw that's 8MB right? 15:50
kparal yep 15:50
Oxf13 hrm, I have "linux-firmware" 15:50
adamw that'd give kde spin a few probs, but kde team did identify some packages we can lose from that without having trouble 15:50
Oxf13 and a bunch of individual firmware files. 15:50
Oxf13 this is just one report though, not confirmed 15:50
Oxf13 this person was complaining about intel wireless not working, which I think is managed in a different -firmware package 15:51
adamw okay, so we need more info on this 15:51
adamw what firmware packages do we have, which of them are on the live images 15:51
adamw anyone can boot the desktop live quick and take a look? 15:51
Oxf13 and it looks like a ton of firmware goes into the live images. 15:52
Oxf13 actually I'd rather have the reporter do some investigation, because from the look of the package set, it should be fine 15:52
adamw okay 15:52
* kparal booting live image 15:52
adamw where's the report here? 15:52
Oxf13 so the reporter may ahve jumped to the wrong conclusion 15:52
Oxf13 there isn't, it was sent to me as a facebook email. *sigh* 15:52
adamw heh 15:53
adamw next up, the Twitter bug report 15:53
adamw 'it duznt work LOL' 15:53
kparal so, do you want to know something from live image? 15:53
adamw kparal: a quick rpm -qa | grep firmware maybe 15:53
Oxf13 linux-firmware is on the live image too 15:54
Oxf13 adamw: I already got that 15:54
adamw ah 15:54
Oxf13 I have the logs from the compose. 15:54
adamw intel firmwares should be iwl-*-firmware i think 15:54
Oxf13 there is plenty of firmware, this reporter is on crack 15:54
adamw iwl*-firmware 15:54
adamw and ipw*-firmware 15:54
kparal adamw: http://fpaste.org/yWgt/ 15:55
Oxf13 I think I'm calling this a non-issue 15:55
kparal fc12 package, interesting 15:55
Oxf13 until I get more feedback from reporter 15:55
* Viking-Ice sneaks in late.. 15:55
Oxf13 kparal: firmware doesn't change that often. 15:55
adamw that sure looks like all the intel firmware's there. 15:55
* kparal could have sorted it 15:56
adamw and all the other things i recognize as major wireless firmware, at a glance 15:56
adamw kparal: yeah, never mind though =) 15:56
adamw Oxf13: is it the same on KDE spin? 15:56
Oxf13 yes 15:57
* jlaska back from meeting 15:57
Oxf13 the firmware stuff likely comes in from the fedora-live-base 15:57
adamw then i agree, non-issue 15:57
adamw tell your reporter to lay off the crack pipe =) 15:57
jlaska so #agreed on this? 15:57
Oxf13 I'm still curious as to why his intel wifi didn't come up, but it's certainly not because of a missing firmware package 15:57
adamw Oxf13: yeah. 15:57
adamw #agreed the report oxf13 received about missing firmware on live images appears to be crack 15:57
adamw anyone else have a potential blocker issue to bring up? 15:58
Oxf13 there are a number of spin-kickstart changes that went in over the weekend 15:58
Oxf13 one of which touches on fedora-live-base, which would mean every livecd I've made would have to be re-spun 15:58
Oxf13 I need to review the change and discuss it with the developer to see what's going on here. 15:58
Oxf13 I'm quite a bit disturbed at all the late changes to spin-kickstarts 15:59
jlaska Oxf13: could that git repo benefit from release specific branches? 15:59
adamw that does seem silly. perhaps we should have a freeze on spin-kickstarts close to RC time. 15:59
Oxf13 and to make moblin work, they need an updated package or two, which should only exist on the moblin spin (and the everything repo) so tagging those isn't a big deal. 15:59
Oxf13 adamw: we do, the problem is lack of testing until RC time 15:59
adamw ah :) 16:00
Oxf13 to be fair, I announced "get your spins working" rather late 16:00
jlaska Anyone have any non-bug discuss topics today? 16:00
kparal jlaska: summer of code 16:01
adamw #topic open floor 16:01
adamw #topic open floor: summer of code 16:01
adamw go for it, kparal 16:01
kparal ok 16:02
kparal as you may be know, there's Fedora's Summer Coding 2010: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Summer_Coding_2010 16:02
kparal there are already quite some ideas proposed: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Summer_Coding_2010_ideas 16:02
kparal our QA team created a few proposals themselves: QA:Summer_of_Code_Ideas 16:03
* jlaska has to flesh out a few more ideas 16:03
kparal we would act as a mentors for students implementing those ideas 16:03
kparal the problem is we don't know how many resources this effort would need 16:04
kparal so, it really needs someone devoted and enthusiastic for this matter :) 16:04
kparal a lot of our proposals don't have any mentor 16:04
* Viking-Ice got one after kparal finishes 16:04
adamw so we'd like mentors and possibly students for the QA ideas? 16:05
kparal so if there is someone, who would like to mentor some of them (or propose some other idea from QA world), that would be fantastic 16:05
kparal yes, we need to find mentors amongst ourselves 16:05
kparal and then find students :) 16:05
kparal or the students should rather find us 16:05
kparal we would blog about the opportunities etc 16:06
kparal the deadline for ideas is May 13th 16:06
kparal and then another week for student applications 16:06
adamw that's three days, for the temporally vague =) 16:06
kparal so, anyone got really really interested? :) 16:06
kparal it would mean creating a detailed description for a chosen idea or creating your own 16:07
* adamw just wants to finish f13 release then crawl into a corner and die quietly 16:07
kparal and then mentoring a student over holidays 16:07
kparal (July, August) 16:07
jlaska anyone have experience mentoring (or as a student) on a summer of code project? 16:08
kparal good question, thanks jlaska 16:08
adamw nope 16:09
jlaska #help if you have experience (as a student or mentor) with Summer of code, please contact the QA team 16:09
kparal well, seems like no response to me... 16:10
Oxf13 I have no time to spend on it this summer 16:10
* jlaska just unsure what is required ... would love to hear back from someone who participated in such an event in the past 16:11
adamw sorry, i'm sort of interested but also frazzled from f13 cycle and behind on other things, so it's hard to get motivated to go and look at this now 16:11
kparal alright. if we don't find a voluteer for mentoring, then I think it will have to wait for some other time 16:12
adamw you can put a call out on the list 16:12
jlaska on a positive note, we now have a place to start collecting project ideas for anyone interested in getting involved in Fedora QA 16:12
kparal #link QA:Summer_of_Code_Ideas 16:13
jlaska Shall we move on to Viking-Ice's discussion topic? 16:14
Viking-Ice Ok.. I think we need to know which packages we ship contain dead or little to no active upstream and perhaps warn users on install time and let reporters and bugzappers know about those. I do believe we are wasting of everybody's time dealing with theses packages.. 16:14
jlaska #topic open floor: reporting on upstream activity 16:15
jlaska Viking-Ice: how do you measure upstream activity? 16:15
adamw sounds more like a development topic to me... 16:15
adamw i'd quite like something like this too, but it's quite icky to automate, as there's almost as many organization systems for upstream projects as there are upstream projects 16:16
Viking-Ice jlaska: commits $ time . 16:16
Viking-Ice adamw: packagers burden to keep track on.. 16:17
Viking-Ice packagers know ( or atleast should know ) if upstream is dead or not 16:17
jlaska it's a clever idea, seems worth a proposal that outlines the scope of the problem, severel methods for reporting on upstream health ... and circulating around devel@ ? 16:18
jlaska it would seem hard to device an accurate heuristic that would work ... but it's an interesting idea 16:18
Viking-Ice Well we actually need also to get some bugzilla activity stats got go with it.. 16:19
kparal maybe just bugzilla could allow to mark some components as "with dead upstream" and particular maintainer could trigger that setting? 16:19
Viking-Ice How much resource are we spending in dealing with dead upstream 16:19
kparal and then it would be shown to bug reporters 16:19
jlaska Viking-Ice: yeah, not a bad project idea ... just needs someone to define the problem space and pull together some recommended solutions for review? 16:20
jlaska Viking-Ice: were you volunteering, or just looking for feedback on the idea? 16:20
Viking-Ice kparal: I think this needs to be flag at install time so if a end user hits a bug he can be assured there's no point in reporting it 16:20
Viking-Ice Vikings-Ice: just in feed back stage at the moment.. 16:21
jlaska Viking-Ice: okay 16:21
jlaska if there's nothing else for today ... let's close out the meeting 16:21
jlaska (1 minute from #endmeeting) 16:21
Viking-Ice If this is a generally considered a good idea for #future to work on.. 16:22
adamw it'd certainly be good to have it, yep. 16:22
jlaska yeah, is this a common request from maintainers of dead upstream projects? 16:22
jlaska good discussion to take to the list 16:23
jlaska list(s) 16:23
jlaska endmeeting extended ... closing in 30 seconds 16:23
Viking-Ice this is a packagers burden so let's wait for other things to cool down first ;) 16:23
Viking-Ice on "the" list first 16:23
jlaska sounds like a plan 16:24
jlaska okay folks ... thanks for your time 16:24
jlaska kparal: adamw: thanks for the #chair assistance 16:24
jlaska #endmeeting 16:24

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