QA/Meetings/20130923

Attendees

• adamw (139)
• tflink (90)
• Viking-Ice (44)
• jreznik (12)
• roshi (11)
• satellit_e (9)
• zodbot (7)
• halfline (7)
• bitlord (6)
• pwhalen (5)
• drago01_ (3)
• ignatenkobrain (2)
• brunowolff (1)

Agenda

• Previous meeting follow-up
• Fedora 20 Alpha final work and retrospective
• Fedora 20 Beta planning
• Open floor

Previous meeting follow-up

• pschindl to send out karma/testing request for not-yet-stable updates in RC2 - this was likely done, by the time of the meeting had become irrelevant
• tflink to make sure some cloud testing is getting done - this was done, tim did some testing on RC4 AMIs
• tflink to file blocker bug about DOA i386 AMI - not done, though the bug got fixed: we still needed to figure out where to file such bugs, as the cloud image kickstarts are not part of a Fedora package (yet?)
• tflink to propose moving 'boot from optical media' criterion from alpha to beta - proposal was posted

Fedora 20 Alpha final work and retrospective

• Fedora 20 Alpha was signed off and planned for release the day after the meeting
• Common bugs entries need writing: adamw and roshi would work on it
• Looked like things were mostly in place for ARM and cloud image publication

Fedora 20 Beta planning

• tflink suggested that we should do some gnome-on-wayland testing
• First Beta blocker meeting would go ahead on Wednesday 09-25
• TC1 scheduled for 10-01 (next Tuesday), go/no-go for 10-24

Open floor

• We agreed we should look at ways to tie cloud SIG into validation testing more closely and verify their work

Action items

• tflink to talk to releng about where to file bugs in the cloud .ks and whether it needs to be packaged in the distro
• adamw to get F20 common bugs page up and populated
• adamw to send the update criteria to 'production'
• adamw to check if any further criteria changes are needed to beta/final for arm/cloud

IRC Log

tflink	#startmeeting Fedora QA meeting	15:01
zodbot	Meeting started Mon Sep 23 15:01:02 2013 UTC. The chair is tflink. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.	15:01
zodbot	Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.	15:01
tflink	#meetingname fedora-qa	15:01
zodbot	The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa'	15:01
tflink	#topic Roll Call	15:01
tflink	#chair adamw	15:01
zodbot	Current chairs: adamw tflink	15:01
adamw	ahoyhoy	15:01
adamw	meeting thief	15:01
adamw	:P	15:01
* pwhalen is here		15:01
tflink	if I would have known you were around, I would have waited :)	15:01
tflink	I can end the meeting so that you can start it, if that would make you feel better	15:02
roshi	is here	15:04
tflink	we'll be missing all the brno folks today	15:04
* roshi		15:04
adamw	ah, public holiday?	15:04
adamw	tflink: no, fine by me	15:04
tflink	team building stuff	15:04
ignatenkobrain	hey	15:05
ignatenkobrain	what's meeting today ?	15:05
adamw	horrible creatures	15:05
adamw	terrible, terrible things that should never see the light of day	15:06
tflink	pretty much, yeah :)	15:06
* jreznik is here		15:06
* adamw wonders if viking_ice is hiding in the woods near the team-building exercise in full viking war mode		15:06
tflink	that brings strange visuals to mind	15:07
jreznik	no team building - this year only for devels and qa to make theirs life together better, nicer, sweeter :)	15:07
adamw	oh god, i hope somebody called 112	15:09
* adamw imagines CNN crew arriving on scene		15:09
adamw	"My god! Can somebody tell me what plane crashed here?"	15:09
adamw	"No plane crash. Only team building exercises."	15:09
tflink	reminds me of my old job when we had a kickball tournament	15:10
adamw	welp, let's see	15:10
jreznik	qa collided with devels	15:10
tflink	a couple of people ended up in the hospital	15:10
tflink	and that was the last time we were allowed to have a kickball tournament :)	15:10
adamw	they were the lucky ones? :)	15:10
* roshi must have always worked at the wrong place. They never tried to build a team... :p		15:11
tflink	not really, some of them needed physical therapy and took months to recover fully	15:11
jreznik	tflink: well, year ago we played football (our, european one) against some school trip guys and the amount of blood, when members of our team hit themselves...	15:11
adamw	welp, i guess we have enough people to roll through the agenda	15:11
adamw	#topic Previous meeting follow-up	15:13
adamw	"pschindl to send out karma/testing request for not-yet-stable updates in RC2" - well, one way or another we got past that	15:13
adamw	#info "pschindl to send out karma/testing request for not-yet-stable updates in RC2" - probably done, now stale	15:13
adamw	"tflink to make sure some cloud testing is getting done" - assume that was done too?	15:13
tflink	jreznik: so the moral of this story is nerds + sports == injury :)	15:13
tflink	yeah, I did some testing on the RC4 AMIs	15:13
adamw	#info "tflink to make sure some cloud testing is getting done" - done, tim did some testing on RC4 AMIs	15:14
adamw	"tflink to file blocker bug about DOA i386 AMI" - so i presume that was done too?	15:14
tflink	yeah, we should probably make a new list of stuff that needs karma	15:14
tflink	adamw: nope, it got fixed without the blocker bug	15:14
tflink	never did figure out where to file that	15:14
jreznik	would be great to figure it out	15:15
tflink	it was fixed in the cloud ks	15:15
jreznik	(where to file such cases)	15:15
adamw	oh kay	15:15
adamw	#info "tflink to file blocker bug about DOA i386 AMI" - not done, though the bug got fixed: still need to figure out where to file such bugs	15:15
adamw	where does the cloud ks live?	15:15
adamw	is it part of spin-kickstarts?	15:16
tflink	good question	15:16
jreznik	as it went out of our radar a few times and there was no formal blocker decision...	15:16
tflink	looks like a separate repo	15:16
tflink	commit messages go out to cloud@	15:16
jreznik	yep, it's not in spin-kickstarts	15:16
adamw	well, wherever it is, it probably needs to be packaged for self-hosting purposes...	15:17
tflink	https://git.fedorahosted.org/cgit/cloud-kickstarts.git	15:17
adamw	#action tflink to talk to releng about where to file bugs in the cloud .ks and whether it needs to be packaged in the distro	15:17
* satellit_e joined late		15:18
adamw	"tflink to propose moving 'boot from optical media' criterion from alpha to beta"	15:19
adamw	i think you agreed to do that, right?	15:19
tflink	that happened, was waiting for some more +1s before moving to criteria wiki pages	15:19
adamw	it does leave us in the rather interesting position that we don't directly require the optical ISO to, er, boot at all in alpha	15:19
tflink	not unless it's properly sized	15:20
brunowolff	It's cheaper to test with USB drives.	15:20
adamw	tflink: true	15:20
tflink	who's going to burn alpha to a DL DVD or a BD-R, anyways	15:20
adamw	dl dvds aren't THAT hard to get a hold of, but yeah.	15:21
* satellit_e I still think we should issue 2 DVD's with different DE and basics so both were under DVD max size		15:21
jreznik	and size is hard to get properly for alpha...	15:21
tflink	they're not hard to find but they're expensive	15:21
adamw	satellit: not really relevant to this discussion, though. it'd still be possible for one of them to go over.	15:21
tflink	not cost prohibitive, but I'd still question why anyone would do that with alpha	15:21
adamw	people do weird things	15:22
adamw	but hey	15:22
adamw	changes look good to me	15:22
adamw	i'd say fire away	15:22
adamw	#info "tflink to propose moving 'boot from optical media' criterion from alpha to beta" - proposal was posted: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test/2013-September/117799.html	15:23
adamw	any follow-up i'm missing, having been away?	15:23
tflink	not that I'm aware of, no	15:24
tflink	the app installer thing that we were being volunteered for went away	15:24
drago01_	testing "optical media"	15:25
drago01_	is very easy to do with a vm	15:25
tflink	drago01_: not the same thing	15:26
adamw	drago01_: we've come across corner cases where the image hasn't worked right when written to an actual disc in the past, and it's something we always want to test explicitly	15:26
adamw	tflink: well i'm bringing that up later anyhow	15:27
drago01_	ok	15:27
adamw	#topic Fedora 20 Alpha final work and retrospective	15:27
adamw	#info Fedora 20 Alpha was approved and will go out tomorrow: nice job all	15:27
adamw	looks like i just get in the way, huh	15:27
adamw	so the obvious action item that we need to get done today is to get commonbugs up	15:28
adamw	#action adamw to get F20 common bugs page up and populated	15:28
adamw	if anyone wants to help write entries, please do	15:28
adamw	roshi: have you worked on commonbugs at all yet?	15:28
roshi	nope	15:28
roshi	or, if I have I didn't know it	15:28
adamw	roshi: maybe i'll rope you in to help with that	15:28
adamw	oh, you'd know it :P	15:28
roshi	haha	15:28
adamw	https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common_F19_bugs	15:28
roshi	works for me	15:28
tflink	i created the skeleton page	15:28
adamw	tflink: thanks	15:28
tflink	but didn't actually write anything meaningful in it :)	15:29
adamw	so, anyone think of anything else we need to check in on before tomorrow?	15:29
tflink	not really	15:29
adamw	guess we might want to double check everything's lined up to publish the arm and cloud images	15:31
adamw	though it'd really be fpm or fpl stuff i think :P	15:31
tflink	yeah, it looked like the "first class cloud" stuff was done with websites last I checked	15:31
tflink	but agreed that it would be worth looking into	15:31
jreznik	website guys are working on the support, I expect it should be ok (trying to follow it up)	15:31
pwhalen	I'll write up the arm install instructions today, there is a place holder there that needs some edits	15:33
adamw	cool, thanks	15:33
jreznik	#link https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-websites/ticket/229	15:33
adamw	#info looks like things are mostly in place for ARM and cloud image publication	15:33
pwhalen	adamw, if i come across something for common bugs, I'll also add to the page you mentioned	15:34
adamw	pwhalen: you should also mark it with the CommonBugs keyword and if you add it into the page, add the URL to Whiteboard	15:34
adamw	helps with tracking	15:34
pwhalen	adamw, okay, will do	15:35
adamw	this is explained in the comments to the commonbugs wiki source, which apparently no-one ever reads	15:35
pwhalen	:)	15:35
adamw	#info no-one can think of much else that needs doing for Alpha prep	15:37
adamw	#topic Fedora 20 Beta planning	15:37
* Viking-Ice is doing team building exercise		15:38
adamw	anything anyone can think of going forward for beta that we should consider now? any lessons from alpha cycle - criteria changes we need to do, test cases that needs fixing/adding?	15:38
satellit_e	the test matrix needs work . spins particularly https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Fedora_20_Alpha_RC4_Desktop#Non_release-blocking_desktops:_x86_.2F_x86_64	15:38
tflink	has anyone tried out gnome+wayland?	15:38
satellit_e	also The test page link needs to be prominently displayed on the install page : https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/20/Spins as it is critical for the spin release being done. "yes" in right collums being criteria.	15:38
tflink	the test case problem from alpha (updates.img) was fixed, IIRC	15:39
tflink	yeah, pschindl created a new updates.img	15:39
bitlord	tflink, I wanted to try ti because it shows up in gdm sessions, but later I heard gdm cannot start shell on wayland yet	15:39
* jreznik has to leave now... will be online later to track alpha readiness :)		15:39
adamw	satellit: when you say 'needs work', you mean we need to do the testing? or the matrix itself is busted?	15:40
adamw	tflink: not yet, probably a good idea	15:40
tflink	bitlord: ok, I thought it was working for the most part	15:40
bitlord	tflink, it is possible to do it from terminal I think, but no command here, have it on another machine in IRC log from #gnome-shell @gimpnet	15:40
adamw	#info tflink suggests that we should do some gnome-on-wayland testing	15:40
satellit_e	the matrix is not very relevant for Soas,,,	15:40
satellit_e	http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Fedora_19-sugar_test_cases is list I did of f19	15:40
satellit_e	for*	15:41
tflink	secureboot	15:42
Viking-Ice	tflink, I actually was hoping for the venue for gnome+wayland would be Gnome-SIG product so it would not be disruptive to the general desktop product to prevent us having to relive the graphics driver disruption all over again but but hey RH Desktop team successfully shot that down	15:42
tflink	Viking-Ice: it's only planned as a preview for F20	15:42
adamw	satellit: oh right, and i never got around to fiddling it into the matrix :( maybe you should do it, heh	15:42
satellit_e	ok will do so if it is oK	15:43
adamw	Viking-Ice: right, i think we just want to check it out so we know roughly where it's at and can answer questions	15:43
tflink	I just think it'll get a decent amount of attention if it mostly works and would be worth the time to poke at it and make sure it isn't completely busted	15:43
Viking-Ice	tflink, as an desktop product even as a preview it would have to pass our test matrix	15:43
adamw	satellit: if you edit it into the template page i can have a look over and let you know if it looks ok to me if you want	15:43
satellit_e	ok will work on it thanks	15:43
adamw	Viking-Ice: i don't see it that way...it's explicitly listed as a preview in f20	15:43
Viking-Ice	adamw, irrelevant release blocking desktop	15:44
Viking-Ice	hence one of the reason for the Gnome SIG	15:44
tflink	Viking-Ice: wayland isn't release blocking for f20, though	15:44
adamw	Viking-Ice: the fact that it's a release-blocking desktop doesn't mean we require absolutely every bit of code it contains to work.	15:44
adamw	i don't think anyone besides you is working on the basis that gnome-on-wayland is release blocking for f20...:)	15:44
adamw	i certainly haven't been	15:44
Viking-Ice	adamw, good for you	15:45
tflink	same here, I really doubt that it'll be ready for everyday usage for F20	15:45
adamw	no-one else seems to be under that impression either from what i've seen	15:45
halfline	bitlord: indeed, i didn't get the start wayland from GDM code ready in time for feature freeze	15:47
halfline	it's sitting on a branch, but unfinished	15:47
adamw	so as things stand we're scheduled to go straight for a blocker meeting on wednesday	15:47
tflink	do we have any proposed blockers?	15:47
Viking-Ice	adamw, well based on fesco dictating how they go about things I cannot see how no one does not see it that way	15:47
adamw	yeah	15:47
adamw	https://qa.fedoraproject.org/blockerbugs/milestone/20/beta/buglist	15:47
Viking-Ice	<sigh> Anaconda really always that much	15:48
* tflink changes current to beta		15:48
adamw	Viking-Ice: i don't really see that anything written down anywhere says gnome-on-wayland would be release blocking. it's not absolutely explicitly specified in the criteria pages that it only applies to X, but then it doesn't state that it applies to all graphical servers either.	15:48
Viking-Ice	adamw, well we are always changing the criteria anyway so let's adjusted the invevitable now	15:49
adamw	Viking-Ice: we could explicitly specify it, i suppose, but there does have to be a common-sense line *somewhere*	15:49
Viking-Ice	adamw, that line we move every release cycle even during the testing phase so...	15:50
adamw	or else i'd have to write stuff like 'on the default display server, so long as a keyboard is plugged in, and you have enough memory, and you're not remoting your desktop via RFC 1149...'	15:50
adamw	it's not really practical to encode EVERY goddamn assumption or you wind up writing eu food safety legislation :P	15:51
Viking-Ice	well hopefully I manage to kill the gnome tunnel vision in the project and we in QA start focusing strictly on the installer and the core/baseOS	15:51
adamw	that's really kind of a separate question	15:51
adamw	anyhow	15:51
adamw	sounds like blocker meeting on wed makes sense	15:51
adamw	#info first Beta blocker meeting will go ahead on Wednesday 09-25	15:51
tflink	yeah, makes sense to have one - already have several proposed blockers	15:52
* adamw thinks any day you can work a reference to RFC 1149 into the conversation is a good day		15:52
adamw	TC1 is scheduled for 10-01, next tuesday	15:52
* tflink makes mental note to avoid conversations with adamw		15:52
adamw	certainly early enough	15:52
bitlord	halfline, ok, but would be nice to have somewhere in documentation how to test wayland on fedora (as technology preview, or how they call those things which aren't features ;-)	15:53
adamw	go/no-go is 10-24	15:53
adamw	#info TC1 scheduled for 10-01 (next Tuesday), go/no-go for 10-24	15:53
adamw	.fire tflink	15:53
zodbot	adamw fires tflink	15:53
adamw	insubordination!	15:53
halfline	bitlord: yea makes sense	15:54
bitlord	halfline, and probably "hide" it from gdm sessions, so people don't get confused when trying and it doesn't work, so no unneeded bugs reported	15:54
halfline	though i'm hoping to get a f20 update out that enables testing when it's ready	15:54
Viking-Ice	so any known criteria alteration we need to do before we start the beta process	15:54
bitlord	halfline, /me not a qa member, just do some testing sometimes ;-)	15:55
adamw	i need to put the update criteria change into production i guess	15:55
adamw	bitlord: that pretty much makes you a qa member :P	15:55
Viking-Ice	adamw, as soon as yesterday	15:55
Viking-Ice	;)	15:55
bitlord	adamw, hehe, thanks ;-)	15:55
adamw	#action adamw to send the update criteria to 'production'	15:55
tflink	adamw: you forgot to put the reason into the .fire :)	15:55
halfline	in retrospect the wayland session file probably shouldn't be in /usr/share/xsessions	15:55
adamw	.fire tflink again: nitpicking	15:55
zodbot	adamw fires tflink again: nitpicking	15:56
halfline	since it's not an X session, and since display managers need special handling to support it	15:56
adamw	halfline: yeah, there are tools/docs which assume anything there is a perfectly normal X session, i think.	15:56
adamw	any other criteria changes required? i can't think of any	15:58
* adamw should check if anything needs changing for arm/cloud		15:58
tflink	requiring optical boot @ beta	15:58
tflink	but we already covered that	15:58
adamw	#action adamw to check if any further criteria changes are needed to beta/final for arm/cloud	15:58
adamw	tflink: it already *does*, the only necessary change is to the 'explanatory text'	15:58
adamw	but that's not critical	15:58
halfline	adamw: okay i got gnome release-team approval to change that before 3.10 today	16:00
adamw	cool	16:01
adamw	okay then, we're over time, so a quick:	16:01
adamw	#topic Open floor	16:01
Viking-Ice	so the cloud testing for beta is it solid this time or will we be experiencing those hickups as we did during alpha	16:01
adamw	any other business?	16:01
tflink	Viking-Ice: depends on if we do the testing, I imagine	16:02
adamw	Viking-Ice: well i asked earlier if there was anything we needed to change based on arm/cloud experiences for alpha and no-one had any suggestions...	16:02
Viking-Ice	tflink, well it's up to the cloud community to do the testing	16:02
tflink	in theory, yes	16:02
tflink	in practice, though?	16:02
Viking-Ice	yes	16:02
tflink	I don't remember them ever helping out with testing unless someone specifically asked for it on cloud@	16:03
Viking-Ice	sub community in general should do their testing	16:03
tflink	s/ever/ever helping out with much/	16:03
tflink	sure, but you also used the "s word"	16:03
adamw	well, maybe we need a better process for pulling them into testing	16:03
Viking-Ice	and I thought robin was working on granting access to people	16:03
tflink	I really don't think access was the problem	16:04
tflink	at full price, an hour with a micro instance is USD 0.20	16:04
adamw	tflink: your substitution skills suck	16:04
tflink	s/0.20/0.02	16:04
adamw	tflink: plus the barrier of 'i have to give amazon my visa card so i can test this thing?'	16:04
tflink	adamw: or I'm just lazy :)	16:04
tflink	true, I already have it set up for other things	16:05
Viking-Ice	why on earth did we approve something to be release blocking while it has a prize tag on it <sigh>	16:05
tflink	amazon isn't the only way to test for criterion violation	16:05
tflink	it's just the easiest	16:05
tflink	the way that the crition is worded, it just needs to work with xen	16:06
Viking-Ice	tflink, dont we already have virtualsation criteria that covers xen ( as well as kvm )	16:06
tflink	Viking-Ice: there is a separate cloud requrement	16:06
Viking-Ice	tflink, is that due to adamw "Recommending kvm"	16:06
tflink	unrelated	16:07
tflink	xen DomO is not a release blocking issue	16:07
Viking-Ice	we should just have one criteria that covers "all virtual"	16:07
tflink	no, we shouldn't	16:07
adamw	Viking-Ice: then we're on the hook for vbox, which we don't want to be.	16:07
adamw	and we want to support only domU for xen, but both host and guest for KVM.	16:07
tflink	vbox, vmware, hyperv ...	16:07
adamw	er, 'block on', not 'support'.	16:08
Viking-Ice	adamw, arent we playing that game with amazon	16:08
adamw	playing what game?	16:08
tflink	the most common virtualization for cloud is kvm and xen	16:08
Viking-Ice	the support	16:08
adamw	Viking-Ice: EC2 is xen.	16:08
tflink	so is rackspace	16:08
Viking-Ice	and so our virtualsation should cover xen/kvm	16:08
adamw	we agreed EC2 would be a 'blocking platform' for f20 cloud stuff because, basically, the world and their mom runs stuff in ec2	16:09
Viking-Ice	and infra should set up host internally to test that stuff	16:09
adamw	it's kind of a practical choice	16:09
tflink	Viking-Ice: it does	16:09
Viking-Ice	not really far from it actually practical for rhel I suppose	16:09
adamw	Viking-Ice: and they are. it's just that it'd be nice to check everything works as intended in the exact amazon ec2 configuration so you can just click the AMI or whatever and be done	16:09
adamw	that's one of the main goals of the whole 'first class cloud' thing	16:09
Viking-Ice	I dont mind first class cloud thing as we host and test it privately as in our infrastructure on a fedora host	16:10
tflink	bring it up with fesco	16:10
Viking-Ice	lol no thank you sure	16:11
Viking-Ice	mean sir	16:11
tflink	that's where the first class cloud stuff came from	16:11
tflink	well, the feature process	16:11
Viking-Ice	ah I see that explains it	16:11
tflink	it is a feature for f20, IIRC	16:12
adamw	Viking-Ice: it's kind of a 'map is not the territory' thing	16:12
Viking-Ice	bottom line gnome sig is also result from fesco decision making	16:12
adamw	what we're trying to ensure is 'you can just click a button and up pops f20 in ec2'	16:12
adamw	the only way you can really test that reliably is *to test it in ec2*	16:12
adamw	we can never guarantee that we have a perfect internal copy of ec2 or something	16:12
Viking-Ice	which brings us back to what the cloud sig should be doing	16:12
tflink	and using the s-word again	16:13
Viking-Ice	but making it release blocking is arguably questionable	16:13
adamw	like i said, perhaps the thing we should be aiming for is to have a more robust process for getting the cloud sig involved in validation testing	16:13
adamw	did we do anything specific down that line for alpha? or just trust that they'd follow along?	16:13
Viking-Ice	well we did ping them ( and them being matt )	16:13
tflink	they said they did testing, and we believed it until I found the x32 image to be DOA	16:14
tflink	we can try pestering them on cloud@ more	16:14
Viking-Ice	in the end of the day this is their "product" and their responsibility and if it fails to shine on amazon then it's their fault	16:15
Viking-Ice	to be blunt	16:15
tflink	sure but we still look bad	16:15
Viking-Ice	no they look bad	16:15
Viking-Ice	the only time we look bad as a project is when we have "defaults" that look bad	16:16
adamw	anyhow	16:16
tflink	because your average ec2 user isn't going to say "fedora sucks on the cloud, they can't test this stuff"	16:16
adamw	we're 16 minutes over at this point	16:16
adamw	i think we got the juice out	16:16
tflink	probably not, but we're getting into flamewar territory :)	16:16
tflink	yep	16:16
adamw	#info we should look at ways to tie cloud SIG into validation testing more closely and verify their work	16:16
adamw	were they actually filing bogus entries in the matrices? or were they just saying 'yeah sure, we tested that'?	16:17
tflink	the latter	16:17
Viking-Ice	well we see who get's the blame when Gnome removes the middle mouse click paste Fedora or Gnome ( default or not )	16:17
tflink	i didn't think that was on purpose, was it?	16:17
adamw	it was on purpose, yeah. just a little premature.	16:18
Viking-Ice	tflink, it's going to be	16:18
adamw	but i'd say it'd be gnome that gets the blame :P	16:18
adamw	buty we're definitely off topic now	16:18
* adamw sets quantum fuse		16:18
tflink	I'd ask why they removed it, but I know better	16:18
Viking-Ice	tflink, I spent 1 and half our watching the designer and developers arguing before I gave up. it felt like watching highlander 2 all over again and literally knew I those minutes of my life I would not get back so yeah one know better	16:19
adamw	tflink: i think the idea is to use middle-click for something shinier and more modern, but my eyes kinda glazed over at some point.	16:20
tflink	Viking-Ice: yeah, that sounds like what I expected	16:20
* roshi didn't even know his scroll wheel button *ever* did anything useful		16:21
Viking-Ice	and you have been using linux for how long again?	16:21
roshi	how did I not know this? It's useful	16:21
adamw	roshi: wait, you didn't know that?	16:21
roshi	well - I try to not use a mouse if I can help it	16:21
adamw	.fire roshi insufficient geekiness	16:21
zodbot	adamw fires roshi insufficient geekiness	16:21
roshi	and there it is!	16:22
adamw	alright, thanks for coming folks	16:22
adamw	#endmeeting	16:22

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