ReleaseEngineering/Meetings/2008-may-05

Fedora Release Engineering Meeting :: Monday 2008-05-05

F9 Release Candidate

• A few things holding up the release candidate
• texlive
• X crashing on evdev removal during installer (kvms)
• packagekit that just got built.
• emacs has broken alternatives and is still on the blocker list
• conflict between rsyslog and syslog-ng

Posting F9 Release Candiate

• Once we have RC spun and are testing it we should pre-process the pending F9 updates and get them pushed into directories
• We should also have tickets filed for releases tasks that we need to make sure happen like export approval filing, etc.

Rawhide Switch to F10

• BugZappers want to cooridnate with bugzilla versioning and rawhide rebase
• Most likely rawhide composes starting on May 8th or 9th will become F10
• f13 to keep poelcat updated

IRC Transcript

-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering - Roll Call		<a href="#t01:00" class="time">01:00</a>
f13	ping: notting jeremy jwb spot lmacken rdieter wwoods warren	<a href="#t01:00" class="time">01:00</a>
jwb	sort of here	<a href="#t01:00" class="time">01:00</a>
rdieter	yo	<a href="#t01:00" class="time">01:00</a>
* notting is here		<a href="#t01:00" class="time">01:00</a>
* poelcat here		<a href="#t01:02" class="time">01:02</a>
* lmacken here		<a href="#t01:02" class="time">01:02</a>
f13	ok, lets get started.	<a href="#t01:03" class="time">01:03</a>
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Releng - Release Candidate F9		<a href="#t01:03" class="time">01:03</a>
f13	We know of a few things holding up the release candidate.  texlive, X crashing on evdev removal during installer (kvms), and a packagekit that just got built.	<a href="#t01:04" class="time">01:04</a>
notting	pk is tagged	<a href="#t01:04" class="time">01:04</a>
notting	f13: emacs having broken alternatives is still on the blocker list	<a href="#t01:04" class="time">01:04</a>
f13	ah	<a href="#t01:04" class="time">01:04</a>
f13	I thought that got fixed.  Guess not	<a href="#t01:04" class="time">01:04</a>
warren	is the PK build related to the GPG problems?	<a href="#t01:04" class="time">01:04</a>
notting	no	<a href="#t01:04" class="time">01:04</a>
notting	it's a traceback in the yum backend	<a href="#t01:05" class="time">01:05</a>
spot	i can't reproduce that emacs failure	<a href="#t01:05" class="time">01:05</a>
spot	at all	<a href="#t01:05" class="time">01:05</a>
spot	jrb says he can, but he's not sure how he got his system into that state	<a href="#t01:05" class="time">01:05</a>
* wwoods testing stuff		<a href="#t01:05" class="time">01:05</a>
spot	something about starting at F8 and updating	<a href="#t01:05" class="time">01:05</a>
wwoods	X-crashing-on-evdev-removal is not all machines	<a href="#t01:05" class="time">01:05</a>
wwoods	I can't produce that bug	<a href="#t01:06" class="time">01:06</a>
f13	wwoods: you're likely not getting detected as evdev	<a href="#t01:06" class="time">01:06</a>
wwoods	right	<a href="#t01:06" class="time">01:06</a>
notting	f13: have you successfully cornered ajax?	<a href="#t01:06" class="time">01:06</a>
f13	notting: was waiting for him to finish lunch	<a href="#t01:06" class="time">01:06</a>
f13	and now I need to go find where he actually sits.	<a href="#t01:06" class="time">01:06</a>
wwoods	it should only happen on machines with devices that are keyboard *and* mouse combos, *and* you have to insert/remove a keyboard/mouse	<a href="#t01:06" class="time">01:06</a>
notting	wwoods: hm, would a ps/2 converter count?	<a href="#t01:07" class="time">01:07</a>
f13	notting: that may pop as evdev	<a href="#t01:07" class="time">01:07</a>
warren	I have a two PS/2 to USB converter at home	<a href="#t01:07" class="time">01:07</a>
f13	wwoods: this isn't a combo, it's a real mouse, usb, plugged into the keyboard, also usb	<a href="#t01:07" class="time">01:07</a>
notting	and is this anaconda only or post-install too?	<a href="#t01:07" class="time">01:07</a>
f13	notting: I've only see it during anaconda	<a href="#t01:08" class="time">01:08</a>
f13	but I don't spend much time out of anaconda in this setup	<a href="#t01:08" class="time">01:08</a>
f13	and from earlier fun with evdev, we know htat the combo detection is a little bad, there are lots of systems that get picked up as combos when they aren't	<a href="#t01:08" class="time">01:08</a>
f13	this can also lead to bad keyboard shortcuts post-install if the detection is wrong	<a href="#t01:09" class="time">01:09</a>
f13	ajax had said something about neutering evdev to not claim combo devices	<a href="#t01:09" class="time">01:09</a>
notting	yes... but... not a blocker. x crashing may be a blocker	<a href="#t01:09" class="time">01:09</a>
* spot will try to reproduce that emacs blocker again today		<a href="#t01:09" class="time">01:09</a>
f13	other than those, I think we're in OK shape.  We're working our way through the testing matrix	<a href="#t01:11" class="time">01:11</a>
f13	wwoods: would you consider the syslog-ng and rsyslog conflict a blocker?	<a href="#t01:11" class="time">01:11</a>
warren	f13: is the fix simple?	<a href="#t01:11" class="time">01:11</a>
notting	#?	<a href="#t01:12" class="time">01:12</a>
f13	I don't know if wwoods filed a bug on it.	<a href="#t01:12" class="time">01:12</a>
f13	warren: don't know.	<a href="#t01:12" class="time">01:12</a>
* notting says 'probably not, as there are certainly multilib conflicts somewhere we haven't noticed'		<a href="#t01:12" class="time">01:12</a>
f13	Ok.	<a href="#t01:13" class="time">01:13</a>
f13	so ideally we'll get the fixes in today for the things that are blockers, and spin the real RC from tomorrow's rawhide.	<a href="#t01:14" class="time">01:14</a>
wwoods	I'm doing a small-e "everything" install from the x86_64 DVD right now	<a href="#t01:14" class="time">01:14</a>
f13	also I can start pre-syncing content to PHX since everything is signed and there are going to be minimal changes	<a href="#t01:14" class="time">01:14</a>
wwoods	it's <a href="https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=441664">https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=441664</a> essentially	<a href="#t01:14" class="time">01:14</a>
buggbot	Bug 441664: low, low, ---, Peter Vrabec, NEW , rsyslog should explicitly conflict with syslog-ng	<a href="#t01:14" class="time">01:14</a>
wwoods	they both ship /etc/logrotate.d/syslog	<a href="#t01:14" class="time">01:14</a>
wwoods	which, wtf	<a href="#t01:14" class="time">01:14</a>
f13	explicitly conflict is verboten	<a href="#t01:14" class="time">01:14</a>
f13	maybe they need to be taught about alternatives	<a href="#t01:14" class="time">01:14</a>
wwoods	why doesn't rsyslog just ship /etc/logrotate.d/rsyslog	<a href="#t01:15" class="time">01:15</a>
f13	wwoods: or that	<a href="#t01:15" class="time">01:15</a>
notting	wwoods: i'm inclined to leave it, it's not a regression, right?	<a href="#t01:16" class="time">01:16</a>
wwoods	no, don't think it's a regression	<a href="#t01:16" class="time">01:16</a>
wwoods	stupid, yes. probably a simple fix, yes. but not a huge problem either	<a href="#t01:16" class="time">01:16</a>
wwoods	solution: don't install both packages	<a href="#t01:17" class="time">01:17</a>
wwoods	I guess we could also fix it by dropping syslog-ng from the media	<a href="#t01:17" class="time">01:17</a>
notting	it's on the media????	<a href="#t01:17" class="time">01:17</a>
warren	that doesn't belong there	<a href="#t01:17" class="time">01:17</a>
notting	it shouldn't be	<a href="#t01:17" class="time">01:17</a>
wwoods	yeah, that's the whole problem	<a href="#t01:17" class="time">01:17</a>
notting	f13: can you fix *that*?	<a href="#t01:17" class="time">01:17</a>
wwoods	installing everything in comps on the media (i.e. checking every "install all optional packages" box for everything in the installer)	<a href="#t01:17" class="time">01:17</a>
wwoods	gives you "file conflict" crashy badness	<a href="#t01:18" class="time">01:18</a>
notting	wwoods: from reading it, the f8 packages ATM have an explicit Conflicts:. so i'd rather not rush a special fix for f9	<a href="#t01:18" class="time">01:18</a>
wwoods	solution: uncheck syslog-ng	<a href="#t01:18" class="time">01:18</a>
wwoods	better solution: don't put it on the stupid media	<a href="#t01:18" class="time">01:18</a>
f13	whoh	<a href="#t01:18" class="time">01:18</a>
wwoods	shipping a package known to conflict with something in @base seems obviously bad	<a href="#t01:19" class="time">01:19</a>
mether	why did we put it on the media before?	<a href="#t01:19" class="time">01:19</a>
f13	need to find out why it's on the media	<a href="#t01:19" class="time">01:19</a>
notting	f13: this is presumably b/c of pungi pulling all providers of 'syslog'?	<a href="#t01:19" class="time">01:19</a>
f13	mether: we didn't explicitly	<a href="#t01:19" class="time">01:19</a>
f13	notting: oh yeah, I bet that's it.	<a href="#t01:19" class="time">01:19</a>
f13	we can just drop a -rsyslog in the manifest	<a href="#t01:19" class="time">01:19</a>
notting	f13: otherway	<a href="#t01:19" class="time">01:19</a>
f13	er yea	<a href="#t01:19" class="time">01:19</a>
f13	sorry	<a href="#t01:19" class="time">01:19</a>
notting	+1 to -syslog-ng in the manifest	<a href="#t01:20" class="time">01:20</a>
warren	totally +1	<a href="#t01:20" class="time">01:20</a>
f13	I'll toss that into pungi today and ask for a tag request.	<a href="#t01:20" class="time">01:20</a>
f13	incidentally that'll require a bumped fedora-release too	<a href="#t01:20" class="time">01:20</a>
f13	(since we ship the config there as well)	<a href="#t01:20" class="time">01:20</a>
warren	not a big loss	<a href="#t01:21" class="time">01:21</a>
notting	f13: tangent: did the ppc compose box survive the move?	<a href="#t01:21" class="time">01:21</a>
f13	notting: hrm, I haven't seen clumens in yet	<a href="#t01:21" class="time">01:21</a>
f13	I could hook it up in my cube for now.	<a href="#t01:21" class="time">01:21</a>
wwoods	thought he was on a plane?	<a href="#t01:21" class="time">01:21</a>
f13	still?	<a href="#t01:22" class="time">01:22</a>
f13	long plane ride	<a href="#t01:22" class="time">01:22</a>
wwoods	<packagereq type="optional">syslog-ng</packagereq>	<a href="#t01:22" class="time">01:22</a>
wwoods	yeah it's in comps?	<a href="#t01:22" class="time">01:22</a>
wwoods	so	<a href="#t01:22" class="time">01:22</a>
f13	wwoods: optional though	<a href="#t01:22" class="time">01:22</a>
f13	wwoods: we don't pull optional packages into the media by default, only specific ones/groups	<a href="#t01:22" class="time">01:22</a>
notting	f13: aside from that, are there any other infrastructural issues preventing a rc compose?	<a href="#t01:22" class="time">01:22</a>
wwoods	is -syslog-ng sufficient?	<a href="#t01:22" class="time">01:22</a>
wwoods	'kay	<a href="#t01:22" class="time">01:22</a>
f13	this is just a case of "give me everything that provides 'syslog'"	<a href="#t01:22" class="time">01:22</a>
f13	wwoods: should be.	<a href="#t01:22" class="time">01:22</a>
f13	notting: none that I know of.	<a href="#t01:23" class="time">01:23</a>
f13	jwb: ping; have you done any ppc composes lately or installs from rawhide?	<a href="#t01:23" class="time">01:23</a>
warren	f13: is a newer tree coming on reducto soon?	<a href="#t01:23" class="time">01:23</a>
jwb	f13, i was supposed to have a machine to do so this week.  no idea if that will actually happen	<a href="#t01:23" class="time">01:23</a>
jwb	(so no)	<a href="#t01:23" class="time">01:23</a>
jwb	also, i've been out quite a bit over the last 2 weeks.  family issues	<a href="#t01:23" class="time">01:23</a>
f13	warren: there has been only 1 package change since the last reducto tree.	<a href="#t01:24" class="time">01:24</a>
f13	jwb: ok.	<a href="#t01:25" class="time">01:25</a>
warren	ah, ok	<a href="#t01:25" class="time">01:25</a>
f13	we'll fly a bit blind with ppc then.	<a href="#t01:25" class="time">01:25</a>
f13	I no longer have machines to test with	<a href="#t01:25" class="time">01:25</a>
jwb	f13, understandable.  we fixed the dvd size issue, yes?	<a href="#t01:25" class="time">01:25</a>
f13	I do believe so	<a href="#t01:25" class="time">01:25</a>
jwb	k.  we should pester dwmw2_gone	<a href="#t01:25" class="time">01:25</a>
f13	those excludes are in the pungi package now.  For reals.	<a href="#t01:25" class="time">01:25</a>
jwb	fo shizzle	<a href="#t01:25" class="time">01:25</a>
f13	alright, anything else regarding the release candidate?	<a href="#t01:26" class="time">01:26</a>
warren	wwoods: <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/TestResults/Fedora9Install/FinalRelease">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/TestResults/Fedora9Install/FinalRelease</a>  how did people on the outside get the RC in order to test this?	<a href="#t01:26" class="time">01:26</a>
notting	f13: one? there's PK and allegro	<a href="#t01:26" class="time">01:26</a>
notting	(at least)	<a href="#t01:26" class="time">01:26</a>
f13	warren: they used rawhide, which is acceptable.	<a href="#t01:26" class="time">01:26</a>
warren	oh	<a href="#t01:26" class="time">01:26</a>
f13	notting: those didn't make today's rawhide	<a href="#t01:27" class="time">01:27</a>
notting	f13: sorry, confusing last tree/rawhide/post-rawhide-today	<a href="#t01:27" class="time">01:27</a>
f13	notting: I meant changes in rawhide.  Pulling packages down and making a local repo is possible, manually figuring out what should be multilib.	<a href="#t01:27" class="time">01:27</a>
wwoods	warren: presumably they used rawhide, or built their own images	<a href="#t01:27" class="time">01:27</a>
notting	f13: ok, have box with ps/2 keyboard, usb keyboard, usb mouse, and two ps/2->usb converters attached. :)	<a href="#t01:28" class="time">01:28</a>
warren	InstallSourceHardDrive being broken is a little sad	<a href="#t01:28" class="time">01:28</a>
f13	warren: some people do use pungi locally to create media too, which is also acceptable/encouraged.	<a href="#t01:28" class="time">01:28</a>
f13	notting: scary	<a href="#t01:28" class="time">01:28</a>
f13	warren: yeah, but without a clumens, I'm not sure we'll see a fix for that soon	<a href="#t01:28" class="time">01:28</a>
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora releng - post-release candidate		<a href="#t01:29" class="time">01:29</a>
warren	where did clumens go?	<a href="#t01:29" class="time">01:29</a>
f13	once we have RC spun and are testing it, we should pre-process the pending F9 updates and get them pushed into directories to make sure that's all hot to trot	<a href="#t01:29" class="time">01:29</a>
f13	warren: I don't know	<a href="#t01:29" class="time">01:29</a>
* warren tries it		<a href="#t01:30" class="time">01:30</a>
f13	also, we should have a ticket somewhere for release tasks, or af ew tickets.  I probably need to look into those and make some things happen, like export approval filing and such	<a href="#t01:31" class="time">01:31</a>
notting	f13: hey, i broke it!	<a href="#t01:31" class="time">01:31</a>
f13	notting: crash?	<a href="#t01:31" class="time">01:31</a>
notting	f13: yeah	<a href="#t01:31" class="time">01:31</a>
notting	now, how to debug???	<a href="#t01:31" class="time">01:31</a>
f13	nod.  I'll hunt ajax down after the meeting	<a href="#t01:31" class="time">01:31</a>
f13	notting: good luck with that.	<a href="#t01:31" class="time">01:31</a>
f13	it's evdev, I seriously think the answer here is stop evdev from claiming the device in this situation	<a href="#t01:32" class="time">01:32</a>
notting	f13: evdev didn't claim anything according to the log	<a href="#t01:32" class="time">01:32</a>
f13	notting: really?!	<a href="#t01:32" class="time">01:32</a>
notting	lemme try again, but it didn't appear to	<a href="#t01:32" class="time">01:32</a>
f13	notting: the last thing I see in the log I attached was evdev removal.	<a href="#t01:32" class="time">01:32</a>
f13	er, last thing before the backtrace	<a href="#t01:32" class="time">01:32</a>
warren	hm, do we have any means to make a USB installer now?	<a href="#t01:33" class="time">01:33</a>
warren	(not live)	<a href="#t01:34" class="time">01:34</a>
wwoods	there's a script.. somewhere	<a href="#t01:34" class="time">01:34</a>
f13	warren: nothing official.	<a href="#t01:35" class="time">01:35</a>
warren	where's the unofficial?	<a href="#t01:35" class="time">01:35</a>
f13	the script I posted to anaconda-devel list many moons ago	<a href="#t01:35" class="time">01:35</a>
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora releng - Open Floor		<a href="#t01:36" class="time">01:36</a>
warren	f13: if we find a fix for the install from hard drive in the next day is it too late?	<a href="#t01:37" class="time">01:37</a>
f13	warren: probably not.	<a href="#t01:38" class="time">01:38</a>
warren	wwoods: is a bug filed for that?	<a href="#t01:38" class="time">01:38</a>
wwoods	<a href="https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=443291">https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=443291</a> was the NFS iso one	<a href="#t01:39" class="time">01:39</a>
buggbot	Bug 443291: medium, low, ---, Anaconda Maintenance Team, CLOSED RAWHIDE, ISO image via NFS, got "Missing ISO 9660 image" and failed to install	<a href="#t01:39" class="time">01:39</a>
wwoods	<a href="https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=443580">https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=443580</a>	<a href="#t01:39" class="time">01:39</a>
f13	nfsiso is confirmed fixed	<a href="#t01:39" class="time">01:39</a>
buggbot	Bug 443580: low, low, ---, Chris Lumens, CLOSED DUPLICATE, Hard disk installation fails	<a href="#t01:39" class="time">01:39</a>
wwoods	is the hdiso variant	<a href="#t01:39" class="time">01:39</a>
wwoods	which was closed as a dupe of the former	<a href="#t01:39" class="time">01:39</a>
f13	hdiso is now failing for some other reason	<a href="#t01:39" class="time">01:39</a>
warren	f13: could you throw that into source control anywhere?	<a href="#t01:39" class="time">01:39</a>
wwoods	guess I'll reopen it?	<a href="#t01:39" class="time">01:39</a>
poelcat	f13: did you see my mail asking when rawhide will start composing from devel branch again?	<a href="#t01:39" class="time">01:39</a>
f13	wwoods: probably best, and throw in the latest logs which should show something else.	<a href="#t01:39" class="time">01:39</a>
warren	wwoods: do we have a full anaconda log of the failure?	<a href="#t01:39" class="time">01:39</a>
warren	wwoods: the new failure	<a href="#t01:39" class="time">01:39</a>
f13	poelcat: I did not, that'll likely be once I start syncing the GOLD bits to the mirrors	<a href="#t01:40" class="time">01:40</a>
poelcat	f13: want to coordinate it w/ bugzilla versioning	<a href="#t01:40" class="time">01:40</a>
f13	actually	<a href="#t01:40" class="time">01:40</a>
* f13 thinks.		<a href="#t01:40" class="time">01:40</a>
f13	We kind of have to wait until F9 goes public due to mirror manager redirection	<a href="#t01:40" class="time">01:40</a>
f13	or else people will just get yum failures for a few days	<a href="#t01:41" class="time">01:41</a>
wwoods	warren: they're not interesting	<a href="#t01:41" class="time">01:41</a>
wwoods	but yeah, I can get some	<a href="#t01:41" class="time">01:41</a>
poelcat	f13: so that would mean, not until 2008-05-13 ?	<a href="#t01:42" class="time">01:42</a>
f13	poelcat: actually, what we might be able to do, is create empty updates repos and get those synced out, and point all f9 requests to the udpates directory	<a href="#t01:43" class="time">01:43</a>
f13	poelcat: that way we can let rawhide move on earlier than that, this week, and not break people who are on F9.	<a href="#t01:44" class="time">01:44</a>
f13	poelcat: I'll start a conversation with mdomsch and co about this	<a href="#t01:44" class="time">01:44</a>
f13	poelcat: I'd say either the 8th or the 9th rawhide will become F10	<a href="#t01:44" class="time">01:44</a>
poelcat	f13: okay, that is helpful... can you keep me in the loop?	<a href="#t01:44" class="time">01:44</a>
f13	yes	<a href="#t01:45" class="time">01:45</a>
poelcat	i'll re-fwd that mail	<a href="#t01:45" class="time">01:45</a>
notting	f13: crashing in core server code	<a href="#t01:46" class="time">01:46</a>
f13	Ok, if there is nothing else, I'm going to go hunt down ajax.	<a href="#t01:48" class="time">01:48</a>
f13	Ok, rock and roll.	<a href="#t01:49" class="time">01:49</a>

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