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(Initial draft of change proposal) |
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<!-- The actual name of your proposed change page should look something like: Changes/Your_Change_Proposal_Name. This keeps all change proposals in the same namespace --> | <!-- The actual name of your proposed change page should look something like: Changes/Your_Change_Proposal_Name. This keeps all change proposals in the same namespace --> | ||
= | = Enable pwfeedback in sudo by default<!-- The name of your change proposal -->= | ||
{{Change_Proposal_Banner}} | {{Change_Proposal_Banner}} | ||
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This should link to your home wiki page so we know who you are. | This should link to your home wiki page so we know who you are. | ||
--> | --> | ||
* Name: [[User: | * Name: [[User:Skyeforeverblue|Skye Chappelle]] | ||
<!-- Include you email address that you can be reached should people want to contact you about helping with your change, status is requested, or technical issues need to be resolved. If the change proposal is owned by a SIG, please also add a primary contact person. --> | <!-- Include you email address that you can be reached should people want to contact you about helping with your change, status is requested, or technical issues need to be resolved. If the change proposal is owned by a SIG, please also add a primary contact person. --> | ||
* Email: | * Email: skyeforeverblue@tuta.io | ||
<!--- UNCOMMENT only for Changes with assigned Shepherd (by FESCo) | <!--- UNCOMMENT only for Changes with assigned Shepherd (by FESCo) | ||
* FESCo shepherd: [[User:FASAccountName| Shehperd name]] <email address> | * FESCo shepherd: [[User:FASAccountName| Shehperd name]] <email address> | ||
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<!-- [[Category:SystemWideChange]] --> | <!-- [[Category:SystemWideChange]] --> | ||
* Targeted release: [https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/releases/ | * Targeted release: [https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/releases/f42/ Fedora Linux 42] | ||
* Last updated: <!-- this is an automatic macro — you don't need to change this line --> {{REVISIONYEAR}}-{{REVISIONMONTH}}-{{REVISIONDAY2}} | * Last updated: <!-- this is an automatic macro — you don't need to change this line --> {{REVISIONYEAR}}-{{REVISIONMONTH}}-{{REVISIONDAY2}} | ||
<!-- After the change proposal is accepted by FESCo, tracking bug is created in Bugzilla and linked to this page | <!-- After the change proposal is accepted by FESCo, tracking bug is created in Bugzilla and linked to this page | ||
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== Feedback == | == Feedback == | ||
<!-- Summarize the feedback from the community and address why you chose not to accept proposed alternatives. This section is optional for all change proposals but is strongly suggested. Incorporating feedback here as it is raised gives FESCo a clearer view of your proposal and leaves a good record for the future. If you get no feedback, that is useful to note in this section as well. For innovative or possibly controversial ideas, consider collecting feedback before you file the change proposal. --> | Several (most) of the users in the [https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/enabling-pwfeedback-in-sudo-by-default-on-workstation/132645 Fedora Discussion thread] I made for this agree that this change makes sense, for several reasons: | ||
- ''"''Hmmm, I haven’t thought about this in years — thanks for bringing it up. I think it’s a reasonable suggestion, especially since ''other'' password prompts on the desktop act that way." (mattdm) | |||
- "Even as an experienced Linux user there are times when I’m not sure I’m actually typing the password or not." (bcotton) | |||
- "I think this is a reasonable distro-wide (that is, for all variants) change to consider, since it’s a strange default to not show feedback when typing. There are also implications for remote connectivity: if you don’t see feedback, you cannot tell if your typing actually made it over to the other side and that can result in you inadvertently mistyping." (ngompa) | |||
Espionage724 had some differing opinions: | |||
- "No since nobody else does it." (this is not true; several other distributions, notably Linux Mint, do this by default as well) | |||
- "It can be an option for people that want it, but I don’t agree with it being a default. I believe it to be reducing a good security practice as a minor user “convenience”, and don’t like the idea of encouraging others to reduce good security practices/exposing others to reduced good security practices." mattdm had earlier said "Also, in 2024, if you are worried enough about someone snooping over your shoulder to gain information about your password length… why are you still using passwords?", which I believe is valid. (Matthew said this before Espionage724 chimed in, but it works as a good response to Espionage724's statement here.) | |||
Espionage724 suggested an alternative to enabling this by default: | |||
"They could tie it behind a <code>gsettings</code> prop; I already have to mess with my mouse stuff through it with libinput. I’m not too sure how other DEs handle that, but iirc <code>gsettings</code> didn’t throw an error on Plasma 6, and was usable on Xfce also for mouse accel.". catanzaro replied to this with "GNOME is not going to expose a preference for whether sudo should display asterisks when you type your password or not. That’s way too niche.", which is unfortunately probably true. | |||
vgaetera says, "I think we should more carefully consider this change. The silent prompt behavior is consistent for most CLI tools.", which I think is worth considering; however, I still think the usability benefit outweighs this.<!-- Summarize the feedback from the community and address why you chose not to accept proposed alternatives. This section is optional for all change proposals but is strongly suggested. Incorporating feedback here as it is raised gives FESCo a clearer view of your proposal and leaves a good record for the future. If you get no feedback, that is useful to note in this section as well. For innovative or possibly controversial ideas, consider collecting feedback before you file the change proposal. --> | |||
== Benefit to Fedora == | == Benefit to Fedora == | ||
<!-- What is the benefit to the distribution? Will the software we generate be improved? How will the process of creating Fedora releases be improved? | This change will benefit Fedora by making sudo easier to use for both novice and advanced users. It will make Fedora Linux more friendly and approachable for everyone.<!-- What is the benefit to the distribution? Will the software we generate be improved? How will the process of creating Fedora releases be improved? | ||
Be sure to include the following areas if relevant: | Be sure to include the following areas if relevant: | ||
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* Alignment with the Fedora Strategy: | * Alignment with the Fedora Strategy: | ||
<!-- Does your proposal align with the current Fedora Strategy: https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/fedora-strategy-2028-february-march-planning-work-and-roadmap-til-flock/43618 ? It's okay if it doesn't, but it's something to consider --> | I think this aligns with the Fedora Strategy because it makes Fedora Linux slightly more usable for everyone, new and old users alike.<!-- Does your proposal align with the current Fedora Strategy: https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/fedora-strategy-2028-february-march-planning-work-and-roadmap-til-flock/43618 ? It's okay if it doesn't, but it's something to consider --> | ||
== Upgrade/compatibility impact == | == Upgrade/compatibility impact == | ||
My ideal plan for this on an upgrade would be to install the new default ''unless'' we detect that /etc/sudoers(.d) has been manually changed, the logic being that if a user is changing their sudoers files, they know how they want this setting to behave. | |||
However, I'm not a developer, and I don't know how hard something like that would be to implement. If that proves to be too much, I'm fine with only enabling this on new clean installations. | |||
<!-- What happens to systems that have had a previous versions of Fedora installed and are updated to the version containing this change? Will anything require manual configuration or data migration? Will any existing functionality be no longer supported? --> | <!-- What happens to systems that have had a previous versions of Fedora installed and are updated to the version containing this change? Will anything require manual configuration or data migration? Will any existing functionality be no longer supported? --> | ||
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<!-- This is an optional step for system-wide changes to avail of. If you would like to build an initial proof of concept of your change and have a member of Fedora QA help you write and/or run some initial basic tests on your code, please email tests@fedoraproject.org and include the link to your change proposal. This step is *optional*. --> | <!-- This is an optional step for system-wide changes to avail of. If you would like to build an initial proof of concept of your change and have a member of Fedora QA help you write and/or run some initial basic tests on your code, please email tests@fedoraproject.org and include the link to your change proposal. This step is *optional*. --> | ||
Do you require 'QA Blueprint' support? | Do you require 'QA Blueprint' support? N (not system wide change) <!-- Optional Step for System-Wide Changes only --> | ||
== How To Test == | == How To Test == | ||
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== User Experience == | == User Experience == | ||
<!-- If this change proposal is noticeable by users, how will their experiences change as a result? | This will make sudo password prompts more friendly and consistent with other password prompts a normal user is likely to encounter. This will make it easier for novices and advanced users to use the system. <!-- If this change proposal is noticeable by users, how will their experiences change as a result? | ||
This section partially overlaps with the Benefit to Fedora section above. This section should be primarily about the User Experience, written in a way that does not assume deep technical knowledge. More detailed technical description should be left for the Benefit to Fedora section. | This section partially overlaps with the Benefit to Fedora section above. This section should be primarily about the User Experience, written in a way that does not assume deep technical knowledge. More detailed technical description should be left for the Benefit to Fedora section. | ||
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<!-- The actual name of your proposed change page should look something like: Changes/Your_Change_Proposal_Name. This keeps all change proposals in the same namespace --> | <!-- The actual name of your proposed change page should look something like: Changes/Your_Change_Proposal_Name. This keeps all change proposals in the same namespace --> | ||
<!-- Include you email address that you can be reached should people want to contact you about helping with your change, status is requested, or technical issues need to be resolved. If the change proposal is owned by a SIG, please also add a primary contact person. --> | <!-- Include you email address that you can be reached should people want to contact you about helping with your change, status is requested, or technical issues need to be resolved. If the change proposal is owned by a SIG, please also add a primary contact person. --> | ||
[[Category:ChangePageIncomplete]] | [[Category:ChangePageIncomplete]] | ||
[[Category:SelfContainedChange]]<!-- After the change proposal is accepted by FESCo, tracking bug is created in Bugzilla and linked to this page | |||
[[Category:SelfContainedChange]] | |||
<!-- After the change proposal is accepted by FESCo, tracking bug is created in Bugzilla and linked to this page | |||
Bugzilla state meanings: | Bugzilla state meanings: | ||
ASSIGNED -> accepted by FESCo with ongoing development | ASSIGNED -> accepted by FESCo with ongoing development | ||
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ON_QA -> change is fully code complete | ON_QA -> change is fully code complete | ||
--> | --> | ||
<!-- When is the last time the contingency mechanism can be put in place? This will typically be the beta freeze. --> | <!-- When is the last time the contingency mechanism can be put in place? This will typically be the beta freeze. --> | ||
<!-- Does finishing this feature block the release, or can we ship with the feature in incomplete state? --> | <!-- Does finishing this feature block the release, or can we ship with the feature in incomplete state? --> | ||
Revision as of 13:24, 10 October 2024
Comments and Explanations
The page source contains comments providing guidance to fill out each section. They are invisible when viewing this page. To read it, choose the "view source" link.
Copy the source to a new page before making changes! DO NOT EDIT THIS TEMPLATE FOR YOUR CHANGE PROPOSAL.
The page source contains comments providing guidance to fill out each section. They are invisible when viewing this page. To read it, choose the "view source" link.
Copy the source to a new page before making changes! DO NOT EDIT THIS TEMPLATE FOR YOUR CHANGE PROPOSAL.
Guidance
For details on how to fill out this form, see the documentation.
For details on how to fill out this form, see the documentation.
Report issues
To report an issue with this template, file an issue in the pgm_docs repo.
To report an issue with this template, file an issue in the pgm_docs repo.
Enable pwfeedback in sudo by default
This is a proposed Change for Fedora Linux.
This document represents a proposed Change. As part of the Changes process, proposals are publicly announced in order to receive community feedback. This proposal will only be implemented if approved by the Fedora Engineering Steering Committee.
This document represents a proposed Change. As part of the Changes process, proposals are publicly announced in order to receive community feedback. This proposal will only be implemented if approved by the Fedora Engineering Steering Committee.
Summary
Owner
- Name: Skye Chappelle
- Email: skyeforeverblue@tuta.io
Current status
- Targeted release: Fedora Linux 42
- Last updated: 2024-10-10
- [Announced]
- [<will be assigned by the Wrangler> Discussion thread]
- FESCo issue: <will be assigned by the Wrangler>
- Tracker bug: <will be assigned by the Wrangler>
- Release notes tracker: <will be assigned by the Wrangler>
Detailed Description
Feedback
Several (most) of the users in the Fedora Discussion thread I made for this agree that this change makes sense, for several reasons:
- "Hmmm, I haven’t thought about this in years — thanks for bringing it up. I think it’s a reasonable suggestion, especially since other password prompts on the desktop act that way." (mattdm)
- "Even as an experienced Linux user there are times when I’m not sure I’m actually typing the password or not." (bcotton)
- "I think this is a reasonable distro-wide (that is, for all variants) change to consider, since it’s a strange default to not show feedback when typing. There are also implications for remote connectivity: if you don’t see feedback, you cannot tell if your typing actually made it over to the other side and that can result in you inadvertently mistyping." (ngompa)
Espionage724 had some differing opinions:
- "No since nobody else does it." (this is not true; several other distributions, notably Linux Mint, do this by default as well)
- "It can be an option for people that want it, but I don’t agree with it being a default. I believe it to be reducing a good security practice as a minor user “convenience”, and don’t like the idea of encouraging others to reduce good security practices/exposing others to reduced good security practices." mattdm had earlier said "Also, in 2024, if you are worried enough about someone snooping over your shoulder to gain information about your password length… why are you still using passwords?", which I believe is valid. (Matthew said this before Espionage724 chimed in, but it works as a good response to Espionage724's statement here.)
Espionage724 suggested an alternative to enabling this by default:
"They could tie it behind a gsettings prop; I already have to mess with my mouse stuff through it with libinput. I’m not too sure how other DEs handle that, but iirc gsettings didn’t throw an error on Plasma 6, and was usable on Xfce also for mouse accel.". catanzaro replied to this with "GNOME is not going to expose a preference for whether sudo should display asterisks when you type your password or not. That’s way too niche.", which is unfortunately probably true.
vgaetera says, "I think we should more carefully consider this change. The silent prompt behavior is consistent for most CLI tools.", which I think is worth considering; however, I still think the usability benefit outweighs this.
Benefit to Fedora
This change will benefit Fedora by making sudo easier to use for both novice and advanced users. It will make Fedora Linux more friendly and approachable for everyone.
Scope
- Proposal owners:
- Other developers:
- Release engineering: #Releng issue number
- Policies and guidelines: N/A (not needed for this Change)
- Trademark approval: N/A (not needed for this Change)
- Alignment with the Fedora Strategy:
I think this aligns with the Fedora Strategy because it makes Fedora Linux slightly more usable for everyone, new and old users alike.
Upgrade/compatibility impact
My ideal plan for this on an upgrade would be to install the new default unless we detect that /etc/sudoers(.d) has been manually changed, the logic being that if a user is changing their sudoers files, they know how they want this setting to behave.
However, I'm not a developer, and I don't know how hard something like that would be to implement. If that proves to be too much, I'm fine with only enabling this on new clean installations.
Early Testing (Optional)
Do you require 'QA Blueprint' support? N (not system wide change)
How To Test
User Experience
This will make sudo password prompts more friendly and consistent with other password prompts a normal user is likely to encounter. This will make it easier for novices and advanced users to use the system.
Dependencies
Contingency Plan
- Contingency mechanism: (What to do? Who will do it?) N/A (not a System Wide Change)
- Contingency deadline: N/A (not a System Wide Change)
- Blocks release? N/A (not a System Wide Change), Yes/No
Documentation
N/A (not a System Wide Change)
Release Notes
Comments and Explanations
The page source contains comments providing guidance to fill out each section. They are invisible when viewing this page. To read it, choose the "view source" link.
Copy the source to a new page before making changes! DO NOT EDIT THIS TEMPLATE FOR YOUR CHANGE PROPOSAL.
The page source contains comments providing guidance to fill out each section. They are invisible when viewing this page. To read it, choose the "view source" link.
Copy the source to a new page before making changes! DO NOT EDIT THIS TEMPLATE FOR YOUR CHANGE PROPOSAL.
Guidance
For details on how to fill out this form, see the documentation.
For details on how to fill out this form, see the documentation.
Report issues
To report an issue with this template, file an issue in the pgm_docs repo.
To report an issue with this template, file an issue in the pgm_docs repo.