Meeting:Marketing meeting 2009-02-19

Transcript of Marketing meeting, Feb. 19, 2009

=-= herlo has changed the topic to Marketing Meeting		20:02
* spevack is like the Meeting Terminator today		20:02
moixs	hehe :)	20:03
spevack	charging from one to another and leaving destruction in my wake	20:03
themayor	lol	20:04
themayor	how many are here so far	20:04
biertie	biertie here!	20:04
moixs	Rolling call?	20:04
biertie	.fas biertie	20:04
zodbot	biertie: biertie 'Bert Desmet' <bert@devnox.be>	20:04
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themayor	yeah roll call i guess	20:05
moixs	Steven Moix	20:05
themayor	lets make it quick i dont want to fall behind	20:05
mizmo-out	hi	20:06
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fugolini	FrancescoUgolini	20:06
* themayor waves to mizmo		20:06
mizmo	Máirín Duffy	20:06
mizmo	yo themayor	20:06
themayor	lcafeiro is on his way to scale i know that	20:07
spevack	Max	20:08
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spevack	still trying to extract himself from #fedora-ambassadors meeting	20:08
themayor	np	20:08
themayor	alright, moixs youre recording, right?	20:08
moixs	This time, yes :)	20:08
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themayor	okay thanks for that	20:09
themayor	did you see the not about the irclog2html thing?	20:09
themayor	should make your life alot easier	20:09
moixs	Yes, I already experimented with it	20:10
themayor	okay great	20:10
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moixs	should be up 1 minute after the meeting ;) So spevack should be happy	20:10
themayor	anyway, lets move on to bigger and better things then	20:10
* spevack is willing to give you 10 minutes :)		20:10
themayor	lol	20:11
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spevack	ping?	20:11
themayor	yeah	20:12
themayor	i was looking something up in email	20:12
themayor	alright	20:12
themayor	so im glad that people were receptive to the new idea	20:12
themayor	so we gonna start working from that starting from this meeting	20:13
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themayor	i kind of sucks that ianweller and jonrob cant make it to the meetings anymore	20:13
fugolini	can we have a new meeting time?	20:14
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fugolini	(to have them here)	20:14
themayor	if thats what everyone wants and it will get more people here, then sure, im not opposed	20:14
spevack	well, let's do what we can today, without them. is there anything on our agenda that doesn't involve ian or jonrob?	20:14
herlo	a couple hours later in the day would probably all that needs to happen...	20:15
themayor	yeah, yes, i was about to say, lets not discuss it right now, but do it on the list	20:15
moixs	a couple of hours later is in the middle of the night in europe :p	20:15
biertie	a couple hours = like...? :p	20:15
themayor	it might need to be earlier actually	20:15
* herlo agrees with spevack, however		20:15
biertie	I can come till 21 or 22h utc :)	20:15
moixs	Let's ask this on the mailinglist	20:16
herlo	this can be discussed on the ml	20:16
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fugolini	+1	20:16
themayor	okay, can someone be the wrangler for this stuff and try and coordinate between everyone?	20:16
themayor	and then report back to us next week?	20:16
moixs	I'll do it	20:16
themayor	or send an official mail to the list regarding what should be done	20:16
themayor	moixs: thanks again man	20:16
themayor	ideally if we are going to change times, we should have it done by next week already	20:17
themayor	agreed?	20:17
spevack	yes	20:17
biertie	agreed :)	20:17
themayor	okay good	20:17
themayor	now moving on, moixs thanks for your post to the list about action items that should be on the calendar	20:18
themayor	did everyone see that?	20:18
* biertie did		20:18
moixs	I think that this should be put on the wiki so everyone can add ideas in the subtasks	20:18
themayor	yes agreed	20:19
themayor	i was going to ask you if you thought you had time to do so	20:19
themayor	so the schedule from now on is going to be on Marketing/Schedule/Current	20:20
themayor	and thats going to be a link to Marketing/Schedule/Fedora 11 Marketing Schedule	20:20
spevack	themayor: you mean Current_marketing_schedule to keep our wiki overlords happy :)	20:20
spevack	and Category:Marketing	20:21
themayor	yeah whatever	20:21
themayor	im bad with that stuff, i need to work with pfrields or kwade to get that stuff in order	20:21
spevack	Well, we start by making any new pages in the proper fashion	20:21
themayor	but conceptually, we are on the same page	20:21
spevack	yes, please continue	20:21
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themayor	spevack: yes, thats what i meant	20:21
moixs	themayor: ok, I'll manage that tomorrow too	20:22
themayor	i dont even know if i did the current schedule page correctly	20:22
themayor	because i used Template:Marketing/Schedule/Template and I think thats not good right?	20:22
spevack	Content is more important than presentation, IMHO. Throw it up on the right page (Current_marketing_schedule) and then clean it up	20:23
themayor	either way from last week's meeting everyone was supposed to send me tasks that thought should be on there and no one did yet, except for moixs	20:23
themayor	okay so can we discuss then the range of things which we need to do for each release and then carry that over into specifically f11?	20:24
spevack	themayor: I thought the tasks that were on JonRob's schedule page were quite complete	20:24
spevack	themayor: +1	20:24
themayor	the stuff thats on there is for now, yes	20:25
themayor	except there are 1-2 things that need to be added	20:25
themayor	but anyway, working with what we have	20:25
themayor	lay press contacts, that list will be up at the meeting next week	20:25
themayor	i have a list here of people we usually talk to and people we might want to speak to	20:25
spevack	themayor: who's in charge of the lay press contacts?	20:26
themayor	due date is 03-03 so i figure if we have it by next week, its enough time for people to look it over and tell me what they think and if we are missing anone	20:26
themayor	me	20:26
spevack	ok.  :)	20:26
themayor	of contacting them or making the list?	20:26
* herlo makes a suggestion about the wiki		20:26
spevack	making the list	20:26
spevack	herlo: suggest away	20:26
themayor	im responsible for the initial list and i guess we will work with it from there	20:26
themayor	herlo: go	20:27
herlo	as you go to pages that have this/that/theother just do a move to the appropriate name this_that_theother	20:27
herlo	that's what I do	20:27
spevack	herlo: clever man	20:27
herlo	it will make moving things around a lot easier	20:27
herlo	and everyone can help	20:27
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fugolini	sure	20:27
herlo	if you don't know what to change it to, ask the WikiCzar :)	20:27
themayor	we need to make a session where we can meet up and have ian here and work on that stuff	20:27
moixs	herlo: so the wiki structure is basically completely "flat" now?	20:28
herlo	moixs: yep	20:28
herlo	basically	20:28
moixs	ahha	20:28
herlo	the trick is to also add categories	20:28
themayor	if we focus on it for an hour once or twice between now and say 2 weeks from now, we could accomplish quite alot	20:28
herlo	like at the bottom of the pages making them relevant and they'll show up in the category pages	20:28
herlo	that's how mediawiki categorizes things	20:29
themayor	ill kickstart that discussion on the list right now actually	20:29
moixs	herlo: yep, I've seen that, thanks	20:29
herlo	np, good luck all	20:29
moixs	themayor: include a discussion about pages we could delete	20:29
herlo	feel free to hit me up with q's too	20:29
themayor	herlo: would you want to help lead one of those session then maybe?	20:29
herlo	moixs: deleting pages is a whole other discussion	20:29
herlo	themayor: sure	20:29
moixs	herlo: may I ask why?	20:30
themayor	okay awesome, thanks, just reply to the thread and we will figure out the logsitics together i guess	20:30
herlo	moixs: in #fedora-mktg, I'll explain so we don't detract	20:31
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themayor	okay great	20:31
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themayor	anyway, now, so we have tasks for f11 set more or less, we will add things to it, im sure, so i want to talk generally now	20:32
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themayor	lets walk through a release cycle and try and enumerate what we need to do, just to get an inital list	20:32
themayor	sound good?	20:32
fugolini	yes	20:32
spevack	go for it	20:32
herlo	+1	20:33
themayor	okay so one thing i was having kind of a struggle with was this	20:33
themayor	lets start at 6 weeks prior to an alpha	20:33
moixs	themayor: let me put my list quickly on the wiki so we can update it in real time	20:33
themayor	okay sure	20:33
moixs	it will be more efficient than doing it afterwards	20:34
spevack	themayor: is 6 weeks prior to alpha basically the previous release?	20:34
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themayor	its a little after isnt it?	20:34
themayor	the alpha doesnt come out 6 weeks after GA	20:34
moixs	https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Schedule/Template	20:35
themayor	unless im misunderstanding what you are asking	20:35
spevack	themayor: you understand me	20:35
moixs	here you go, can you update it during the meeting?	20:35
spevack	carry on, sorry	20:35
themayor	yeah one second the page is taking a while to refresh maybe a cache flush	20:36
spevack	moixs: pretty good list, there	20:36
spevack	what does " * Renew the news distribution network people list to always have " mean?	20:36
themayor	he means have it update for this release	20:36
themayor	meaning if there is stale info on it or someone we dont want to deal with	20:36
moixs	spevack: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/NewsDistributionNetwork	20:37
moixs	yes, to avoid te ambassador effect :)	20:37
moixs	I think it would be a good idea to ask people at every cycle if they still want the job	20:37
moixs	2-3 people per language, not hard to manage	20:38
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spevack	ok, makes sense. I think we need a checkpoint other than "FUDCon" though, since there is not always guaranteed to be a FUDCon at the right time in the release cycle	20:38
themayor	yeah thats why i said 6 weeks prior to alpha	20:39
spevack	all the checkpoints should be at a certain date, X weeks/days before the release date	20:39
spevack	themayor: yeah	20:39
* spevack updates the page		20:39
moixs	Ok, change it to "Alpha -6 weeks" or something like that	20:39
themayor	i like t-minus X weeks to alpha, beta, etc	20:39
spevack	done	20:39
themayor	alpha-6	20:39
moixs	So, what do you see us doing in this period?	20:40
themayor	okay also one VERY important thing	20:40
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themayor	talking points	20:40
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themayor	and have the first of the two meetings between us, fam, docs and art	20:41
themayor	actually, mizmo, when do you start developing themes for a new release?	20:41
mizmo	themayor, we already started	20:42
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mizmo	themayor, we'll have a wallpaper in the beta	20:42
mizmo	(a rough cut i might add)	20:42
mizmo	(very rough)	20:42
themayor	no i know, but im saying in the future, in general how many weeks before	20:42
mizmo	it's changed every release. generally we've been pushing further and further back so we are as early as we can	20:43
mizmo	be	20:43
* herlo thinks those points in time should be defined as 'Milestones' of their own maybe?		20:43
herlo	and can be defined against alpha beta or GA?	20:43
themayor	yes	20:44
themayor	this is why we need to have those types of meetings	20:44
herlo	that way, they can move a little...	20:44
themayor	to iron out policy and process to coordinate	20:44
herlo	right	20:44
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mizmo	poelcat does have that all defined in his f11 schedule	20:45
themayor	right we are trying to set up the same thing for marketing, as a general template for every release	20:45
themayor	mizmo: for f12 is 6 weeks before alpha too late to sit down and talk about the artwork for you guys?	20:46
mizmo	themayor, not if we have a release name by then	20:47
mizmo	we did not for the f11 alpha -6 weeks	20:47
mizmo	iirc	20:47
themayor	ah ha, good point, art would naturally be tied to release name somewhow	20:48
moixs	Ah yes, the release name is an important trigger too..do we have an idea when this comes?	20:48
themayor	how long before alpha is name voting done? spevack do you know?	20:48
spevack	themayor: let me look back at F11 and i'll tell you in a few mins	20:49
fugolini	ping	20:49
* herlo thinks we call that a Milestone: Official Codename Announced		20:49
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mizmo	themayor, you'll probably want to look at poelcat's schedule, he has all these milestones on it	20:49
spevack	themayor: voting began on Jan 5	20:49
spevack	so about 1 month before alpha	20:50
themayor	i did i dont remember seeing that	20:50
themayor	let me look again	20:50
mizmo	it should be, he had it out at fudcon boston not long ago	20:50
mizmo	and i remember that being on there	20:50
themayor	i was going to sit with poelstra regardless on our template schedule to make sure everything looks kosher to him	20:50
moixs	I have this in the news archive page :p	20:50
spevack	themayor: good idea	20:51
themayor	mizmo: no im not denying youre right, im just blaming my bad memory and over-involvedness	20:51
moixs	12.01	20:51
herlo	http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-11/	20:51
mizmo	its all good :)	20:51
moixs	And the alpha was released on 06.02	20:51
herlo	does that help?	20:51
themayor	either way, that fits in the alpha minus 6 timeframe, so in a word, yes, its good to have that meeting then	20:51
themayor	its perfect, right before we have the name, art should be gearing up, ambassadors are doing what they do and docs is working on retooling things for the next release	20:52
mizmo	well we need an extra two weeks	20:53
mizmo	the voting began on jan 5	20:53
mizmo	the name was decided when?	20:53
herlo	at fudcon	20:53
moixs	12.01	20:53
moixs	or 01.12 in US notation	20:53
herlo	ty	20:53
* herlo was gettign so confused :)		20:53
mizmo	so the art team gets 2 weeks to figure out what to visually represent?	20:53
* mizmo doesnt remember what it was for f11		20:54
mizmo	i think it was feb 2	20:54
mizmo	so we did get 2 weeks	20:54
mizmo	i mean, 6 weeks before the alpha, the first 4 weeks the art team is not going to know what they are doing for the artwork	20:54
mizmo	and you were interested in 6 weeks before	20:54
themayor	mizmo: you dont have to have decision or anything by then	20:55
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themayor	its just like a pre-milestone metting to get coordinated between each other	20:55
themayor	and to make sure if you need marketing to help with anything, that we are doing ti	20:55
themayor	adn will be able to have it on schedule assigned to someone	20:56
spevack	themayor: may I offer a suggestion?	20:56
mizmo	themayor, ohhh okay	20:56
mizmo	themayor, makes sense	20:56
themayor	spevack: yes	20:56
spevack	one of the things that we need to recognize here is that especially in the context of a release, and the schedule of tasks around a release	20:57
spevack	there is a lot of coordination needed between marketing, websites, and artwork, in all directions.	20:57
spevack	I think that it would be wise to have a checkpoint before Alpha, Beta, RC, Final for those three groups to all get on the same page	20:57
spevack	thoughts from anyone?	20:57
moixs	Add this task to the list then, a joint meeting to see if no group lags behind	20:58
fugolini	nothing from my side, at list for this point	20:58
herlo	+1 spevack	20:58
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themayor	thats why i proposed two meetings	20:59
themayor	one before alpha and one between beta and GA	20:59
themayor	but if we want to we can add another	20:59
themayor	spevack: thoughts?	20:59
* mmcgrath coughs		21:00
mmcgrath	you guys almost ready or should we move to #fedora-admin?	21:00
spevack	ah, sorry mike	21:00
spevack	we'll move to #fedora-mktg	21:00
spevack	themayor: sounds good, btw	21:00
fugolini	ok	21:00
themayor	yeah will that mess up the log, btw?	21:01
mmcgrath	no worries	21:01
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spevack	themayor: i'll work with moixs to make sure it all works out	21:01
spevack	EVERYONE, TO #FEDORA-MKTG	21:01
moixs	Started to log this channel too ;)	21:02
themayor	you the man	21:03
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moixs	Ok, do any of you have other bright ideas to put in the milestones?	21:05
spevack	moixs: not right now, I need to think it over a bit with more of a clear head	21:05
fugolini	sounds good. Maybe something from Release Events	21:05
fugolini	but I don't want to overweight the milestones	21:06
fugolini	""	21:06
moixs	What we should look at is the current position in the cycle	21:06
moixs	We should assign ourselves to SIGs and features	21:06
fugolini	ah ok	21:07
moixs	Do you also think that a couple of days thinking on the mailinglist would be god?	21:07
themayor	yeah but we need to make sure this happens on the list	21:07
fugolini	maybe just push it and, let people the possibility to add something	21:08
themayor	because every week we say that and im sure we all have good intentions but i feel like alot of us get hyped up at the meeting and then get too involved in other things later	21:08
moixs	themayor: this is directly rlated to the thread you started today, do you want to continue it there or start a new one?	21:09
themayor	fell free to start a new one	21:10
moixs	ok ,I add it to my list	21:10
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moixs	Do you see other things to talk about?	21:11
fugolini	no	21:11
themayor	moixs: in what context, now for the meeting?	21:12
moixs	yes :)	21:12
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moixs	So if we set the goal to rename pages on the wiki ans complete the schedule until next week, does it seem realistic?	21:13
moixs	s/ans/and/	21:13
fugolini	From a outer POV i could say to try, but I'm not direct involved so, maybe the people involved could be more interested than me :)	21:14
themayor	yes, i dont think anything will ever be set in stone	21:14
themayor	but i think we have a good shot	21:14
themayor	i think for the most part if i add stuff to the schedule, its done and then we need to port it to f11	21:15
moixs	yes	21:15
themayor	and take whats on jonrobs page to there	21:15
moixs	exactly :)	21:15
moixs	I guess the meeting is over? :)	21:16
themayor	i guess so	21:17
fugolini	so, if it so. Bye	21:17
themayor	i was about to say, are we adjourned?	21:17
moixs	yep, have a good night :)	21:17
fugolini	you too	21:18
themayor	thank you guys very muchj	21:18