ReleaseEngineering/Meetings/2008-jan-14

Fedora Release Engineering Meeting :: Monday 2008-01-14

Meeting Higlights

• Alpha freeze is 2008-01-15
• Rawhide is not currently installable
• Running rawhide status: http://wwoods.fedorapeople.org/rawhide.html
• Alpha blocker bug: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=428703
• Release Engineering Schedule: http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-9/f-9-releng-tasks.html

DECISION: slip alpha freeze by one week, re-evaluate state next meeting; hold to planned GA date

IRC Transcript

-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering Meeting		<a href="#t13:00" class="time">13:00</a>
f13	ping jeremy jwb wwoods warren rdieter spot lmacken notting poelcat	<a href="#t13:00" class="time">13:00</a>
* spot is here		<a href="#t13:01" class="time">13:01</a>
rdieter	here (mostly)	<a href="#t13:01" class="time">13:01</a>
jwb	here	<a href="#t13:01" class="time">13:01</a>
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering Meeting - Fedora 9 Alpha		<a href="#t13:02" class="time">13:02</a>
* lmacken		<a href="#t13:02" class="time">13:02</a>
f13	alright that's likely enough to get started.	<a href="#t13:02" class="time">13:02</a>
f13	although I'd like wwoods  :/	<a href="#t13:02" class="time">13:02</a>
f13	so, alpha, supposed to freeze tomorrow	<a href="#t13:03" class="time">13:03</a>
f13	which would normally mean freezing tonight right after rawhide compose.	<a href="#t13:03" class="time">13:03</a>
f13	so that rawhide tomorrow == freeze content	<a href="#t13:03" class="time">13:03</a>
wwoods	doop	<a href="#t13:04" class="time">13:04</a>
f13	however, our tree is in an interesting state	<a href="#t13:04" class="time">13:04</a>
f13	wwoods: is it installable today?	<a href="#t13:04" class="time">13:04</a>
wwoods	As far as I can tell.. no	<a href="#t13:04" class="time">13:04</a>
* poelcat here		<a href="#t13:05" class="time">13:05</a>
notting	is it uninstallable in a different way than it has been uninstallable previously?	<a href="#t13:05" class="time">13:05</a>
wwoods	traces back when it tries to start the transaction	<a href="#t13:05" class="time">13:05</a>
wwoods	notting: yes!	<a href="#t13:05" class="time">13:05</a>
wwoods	we have X and disks now!	<a href="#t13:05" class="time">13:05</a>
wwoods	subject to the normal X caveats, e.g. "no X on sis"	<a href="#t13:05" class="time">13:05</a>
wwoods	I think dhcp is still screwed on x86_64	<a href="#t13:06" class="time">13:06</a>
wwoods	if you click on the "Upgrade existing system" item, the installer crashes	<a href="#t13:06" class="time">13:06</a>
f13	yeah...	<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
wwoods	that's what I've got so far	<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
wwoods	it's better than last week but a long way from installable	<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
spot	i just pulled out two more fontsets	<a href="#t13:08" class="time">13:08</a>
spot	but that shouldn't affect anything	<a href="#t13:08" class="time">13:08</a>
wwoods	I might try yum upgrading an F8 box just to do *some* functional testing	<a href="#t13:09" class="time">13:09</a>
wwoods	but it's been weeks since we had an installable rawhide	<a href="#t13:09" class="time">13:09</a>
wwoods	and that's a killer	<a href="#t13:09" class="time">13:09</a>
f13	yes.  I'm not comfortable at all snapshotting for alpha at this point.	<a href="#t13:09" class="time">13:09</a>
f13	so that would mean talking about a slip	<a href="#t13:10" class="time">13:10</a>
notting	do we have a quick virtual whiteboard of issues?	<a href="#t13:11" class="time">13:11</a>
f13	is in channel OK?	<a href="#t13:12" class="time">13:12</a>
wwoods	<a href="http://wwoods.fedorapeople.org/rawhide.html">http://wwoods.fedorapeople.org/rawhide.html</a> has what I've got so far	<a href="#t13:12" class="time">13:12</a>
wwoods	I'll be adding the transaction crash and upgrade crash shortly	<a href="#t13:12" class="time">13:12</a>
jwb	i just fixed nautilus-open-terminal	<a href="#t13:12" class="time">13:12</a>
jwb	but that shouldn't make any difference either	<a href="#t13:13" class="time">13:13</a>
wwoods	but yeah, I've done *zero* functional testing	<a href="#t13:13" class="time">13:13</a>
notting	i think 422421 is fixed	<a href="#t13:13" class="time">13:13</a>
wwoods	422061 is probably OK too	<a href="#t13:13" class="time">13:13</a>
wwoods	at least it should be non-NEW	<a href="#t13:13" class="time">13:13</a>
f13	but more importantly, no new installs are possible	<a href="#t13:13" class="time">13:13</a>
f13	so we don't know where there are problems.	<a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a>
f13	rather where /else/	<a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a>
wwoods	right	<a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a>
wwoods	how long's the freeze?	<a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a>
f13	week~	<a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a>
wwoods	so. we want a week with an installable tree to shape it up	<a href="#t13:15" class="time">13:15</a>
wwoods	do we push the freeze until we've got an installable tree, or freeze now and extend the freeze until we hit that target?	<a href="#t13:15" class="time">13:15</a>
clumens	THUD	<a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a>
f13	I wanted chris to pop buy and help us make this decision.	<a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a>
jwb	how likely will gdm allow logout in a week?	<a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a>
f13	clumens: we're discussing the alpha freeze tomorrow and the current state of things.	<a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a>
* spot would be happy if gdm allowed reliable LOGIN		<a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a>
clumens	alright	<a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a>
f13	to be perfectly honest, I'd be happy if you can install, and get updates	<a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a>
wwoods	yeah, so long as people can get updates we can push fixes at them later	<a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a>
wwoods	but if they can't get the bits on their system we're boned	<a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a>
poelcat	do we have an alpha tracking bug so folks can follow along at home?	<a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a>
wwoods	poelcat: not yet. one should be created.	<a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a>
jwb	i have some kernel bugs to log myself.  kernel hates my laptop	<a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a>
clumens	f13: well we have hard drives today, and X starts on hardware that X runs on	<a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a>
clumens	though apparently there's some rpmdb thing now that i have not gotten a chance to investigate	<a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a>
f13	right, and network x86_64 is still boned	<a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a>
clumens	static networking is probably busted too	<a href="#t13:20" class="time">13:20</a>
wwoods	oh right, forgot about that	<a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a>
wwoods	dcantrell where art thou?	<a href="#t13:22" class="time">13:22</a>
f13	wwoods: so what would you like to see before we take the snapshot?	<a href="#t13:22" class="time">13:22</a>
clumens	wwoods: 1300-0600 = probably still asleep	<a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a>
* jwb notes that with everything being broken he hasn't done any ppc spins		<a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a>
wwoods	oh he's at UTC-6? good to know	<a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a>
clumens	wwoods: EST-6	<a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a>
wwoods	f13: installable on i386, at a bare minimum	<a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a>
clumens	hawaii and all	<a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a>
wwoods	clumens: oh duh. noted. thanks.	<a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a>
poelcat	wwoods: all: tracker created <a href="https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=428703">https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=428703</a>	<a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a>
buggbot	Bug 428703: low, low, ---, Bill Nottingham, NEW , Fedora 9 Alpha Tracking bug	<a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a>
clumens	so if you're asking how i feel about anaconda right now, total mixed bag	<a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a>
wwoods	oh for the love of crap. my kingdom for a working CDRW	<a href="#t13:27" class="time">13:27</a>
wwoods	I haven't seen a crash this colorful since the old DOS days. so that's kinda cool.	<a href="#t13:27" class="time">13:27</a>
wwoods	anyway, yeah, are we going to push the freeze back or extend it?	<a href="#t13:27" class="time">13:27</a>
f13	I'd rather push it back	<a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a>
jwb	it's a rel-eng only freeze right?	<a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a>
f13	yes	<a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a>
jwb	then why push it back?	<a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a>
f13	jwb: because it's not as if we're comfortable of have any idea whats going on outside of installer, so there isn't really a point to freeze that right now anyway	<a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a>
poelcat	and the whole point of the alpha that it installs	<a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a>
jwb	f13, i wouldn't say we have no idea	<a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a>
jwb	but ok	<a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a>
wwoods	/fobpath/?	<a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a>
f13	usb fob	<a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a>
* wwoods confused by this directory		<a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a>
wwoods	ah	<a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a>
wwoods	hm. I should use mine.	<a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a>
clumens	so, you're saying i should get back to work?	<a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a>
wwoods	yeah. slacker.	<a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a>
wwoods	I'll get you some info on that transaction crash RSN	<a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a>
wwoods	ahh, I love the new URL entry screen (with proxy support and everything!)	<a href="#t13:32" class="time">13:32</a>
f13	so how do we feel about a week slip, and re-evaluate next monday?	<a href="#t13:32" class="time">13:32</a>
wwoods	I feel OK about it	<a href="#t13:32" class="time">13:32</a>
jwb	i feel it would be good	<a href="#t13:32" class="time">13:32</a>
notting	we have nowhere to go but up?	<a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a>
clumens	we came a long way this weekend	<a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a>
jwb	well... we could go sideways... get anaconda working, and then everything after crashes?	<a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a>
wwoods	error: no dbpath has been set (?!)	<a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a>
wwoods	error: cannot open Packages database in /mnt/sysimage/%{_dbpath}	<a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a>
f13	cute	<a href="#t13:36" class="time">13:36</a>
wwoods	sounds like that might be an easy thing to fix, though	<a href="#t13:37" class="time">13:37</a>
f13	nod	<a href="#t13:38" class="time">13:38</a>
f13	ok, so I'll announce the slip and we'll have a work to get things better.	<a href="#t13:38" class="time">13:38</a>
wwoods	a week to work?	<a href="#t13:38" class="time">13:38</a>
f13	yes	<a href="#t13:39" class="time">13:39</a>
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering - Open Discussion		<a href="#t13:39" class="time">13:39</a>
jwb	F9 names?	<a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a>
clumens	i wonder if rpm has changed	<a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a>
jwb	legal got back to us	<a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a>
f13	jwb: Yeah, can you get a vote setup with toshio?	<a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a>
jwb	yep, was just going to see if that's who i had to bug	<a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a>
jwb	btw, most of the good names were yanked :(	<a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a>
clumens	so it's down to tasticles and popplers?	<a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a>
rdieter	ha	<a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a>
jwb	clumens, there's a much larger list than last time.  but most of the ones people said "yeah!" at were cut	<a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a>
f13	I liked bathysphere	<a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a>
jwb	i think that one's still there	<a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a>
wwoods	nice!	<a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a>
f13	nod	<a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a>
f13	notting and I made some progress at making the rawhide creation process less tearful	<a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a>
jwb	oh?	<a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a>
f13	we'll have to enact it soon, which includes an upgrade of releng1 to rhel5	<a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a>
notting	although it's in a holding pattern for a bit	<a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a>
f13	ah	<a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a>
notting	well, skvidal will fix up createrepo. but more fixage requires func-ification	<a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a>
f13	notting: I'm not convinced that func is the answer	<a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a>
f13	notting: more realisticaly we need koji integration	<a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a>
f13	or else it's just a slightly better method of what we hav enow.	<a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a>
notting	well, there are two routes	<a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a>
notting	- a func module that controlls mock (you can set it up to create buildroots, etc.)	<a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a>
notting	- grand unified koji bits, so koji has a 'make me a rawhide' button	<a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a>
notting	the second seems overkill	<a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a>
f13	that's not what I'm talking about at all	<a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a>
notting	the first is nice in that you don't actually need to worry about what the koji repos are	<a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a>
f13	we just need a koji runroot function	<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
f13	run "command" in chroot of <tag>	<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
f13	upload results to /path/	<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
notting	right, but rawhide is already running on its own repos	<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
notting	not the koji ones	<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
f13	which is fixable.	<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
notting	how is running on a potentially stale (vis-a-vis static-repo creation) repo better?	<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
f13	because then we allow koji to better pick a builder to use, registers the weight of the run on the builder itself, and handles passing the bits around for us.	<a href="#t13:46" class="time">13:46</a>
notting	.... passing the bits?	<a href="#t13:47" class="time">13:47</a>
f13	notting: if you're that worried, you can trigger a newRepo task right before starting mash, and taskwait said newRepo for the buildinstall phase.	<a href="#t13:47" class="time">13:47</a>
f13	notting: kojibuilder can upload the output via xmlrpc to the hub, which writes it out in /mnt/koji/ somewhere.	<a href="#t13:47" class="time">13:47</a>
jwb	poelcat, where is the rel-eng schedule at?	<a href="#t13:47" class="time">13:47</a>
f13	/mnt/koji/runroot/<task>/output	<a href="#t13:47" class="time">13:47</a>
notting	yeah, but 'output' is a pretty amorphous concept for pungify	<a href="#t13:48" class="time">13:48</a>
f13	either way we're going to have to modify koji	<a href="#t13:48" class="time">13:48</a>
f13	or we'll just keep ignoring the fact that rawhide tasks will abuse builders and not register as weight and we'll continue having problems of delayed rawhide due to builds.	<a href="#t13:48" class="time">13:48</a>
f13	and builds getting delayed due to rawhide.	<a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a>
notting	yes. the other thing is that a mock controller in func might be picked up quicker in general by others, but that shouldn't be a deciding factor	<a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a>
f13	nod	<a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a>
notting	which led me wondering if koji would have been written differently if func predated it. which is neither here nor there.	<a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a>
poelcat	jwb: <a href="http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-9/f-9-releng-tasks.html">http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-9/f-9-releng-tasks.html</a>	<a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a>
jwb	poelcat, ah thanks	<a href="#t13:50" class="time">13:50</a>
notting	f13: short-term, we can do 'check load ; koji disable-builder', etc. which would require some auth tricks (certificate or otherwise)	<a href="#t13:50" class="time">13:50</a>
f13	notting: yeah, we could do that.	<a href="#t13:51" class="time">13:51</a>
notting	other note: as mentioned on fedora-admin, the current schedule for reversing the sync streams is february 4th	<a href="#t13:53" class="time">13:53</a>
notting	which will require some changes around rawhide & bodhi, although not necessarily *in* bodhi	<a href="#t13:55" class="time">13:55</a>
f13	ok, we're off in the weeds.	<a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a>
f13	poelcat: decision: slip alpha freeze a week, re-evaluate state next meeting.	<a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a>

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