Extras/SteeringCommittee/Meeting-20061026

2006 October 26 FESCo Meeting

Members

Present

• thl
• bpepple
• abadger1999
• rdieter
• ch4chris
• tibbs
• dgilmore
• scop
• warren
• jeremy
• spot
• jwb (late)

Absent

• awjb

Summary

When to Touch Other People's Packages

• Approved the proposal: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/Schedule/FixStuffThatNeedsFixing

EPEL

• The name is not liked in all corners but no better name has been proposed so we're proceeding as is for now.

Packaging Committee Report

• Voting to stop using the X-Fedora category in the desktop file is currently underway via email.

Meeting Time

• "Daylight Savings" occurs this weekend so the meeting will be 18:00UTC starting next weel.

Sponsor Nominations

• cwickert approved as sponsor.
• Mamoru Tasaka approved as sponsor after some debate.
• silug and pfj to be discussed on the list.

Sponsor Criteria

• "Does the person understand packaging" proposed as the criteria for giving sponsor status.
• warren brought up that we need to make a proposal to officially recognize other paths to get "higher ranks" within the project. (such as sponsor status, sponsored for cvsextras/fedorabugs, etc)
• Example: having someone who is bilingual in English and another language being responsible for sponsoring other contributers who speak the other language but not English.
• comaintainership may help guide people.
• Further discussion to take place on list.

Approve KMods

• rt2x00-kmod -- https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=202528
• Given the go ahead to package as it satisfies the "going into upstream kernel" requirement.
• Encouraging the packager to coordinate with linville about actual packaging as it touches on stuff in the netdev tree.

Maintainer Responsibilities

• bpepple will work on driving this forward.

Misc

Coverity

• It is inappropropriate for Coverity to be used on Fedora Infrastructure. Removing from the schedule.

Core + Extras Merge

• The merge is just beginning to take concrete steps (due to getting FC6 and RHEL5 out).
• jeremy proposed taking things step by step:

1. Common VCS 2. Unify the build infrastructure.

Log

(10:00:46) thl has changed the topic to: FESCO meeting -- init
(10:00:50) thl: Hi
(10:00:55) ***thl looks around
(10:00:57) ***bpepple is here.
(10:00:58) abadger1999: greetings
(10:00:58) thl: anyone here?
(10:01:01) rdieter: here
(10:01:28) ***jima is here-but-rabble.
(10:01:34) ***c4chris is here
(10:01:47) thl: mmcgrath, are you around?
(10:02:08) c4chris: you've got mail...
(10:02:46) thl: hmmm, let's start slowly
(10:02:51) tibbs: I'm around.
(10:03:00) thl has changed the topic to: FESCO meeting -- Enhance AWOL
(10:03:27) thl: tibbs, are these the changes we need to discuss? http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/Schedule/EnhanceAWOL?action=diff&rev2=5&rev1=3
(10:03:33) tibbs: thl: It has been a very bad couple of weeks for me; did you get all the information you needed from me on this item?
(10:04:00) thl: tibbs, np, it nothing that needs to be solved today
(10:04:21) thl: I'd just like to know if above wiki link contains all the changes in question
(10:04:30) ***dgilmore is here
(10:04:31) thl: or if there is still something missing
(10:05:01) scop [n=scop]  entered the room.
(10:05:19) thl: tibbs ?
(10:05:42) tibbs: Just checking my mail archive.
(10:05:55) ***jeremy is trying to watch here, fwiw
(10:06:16) tibbs: Yes, that has the additional "notes for mass orphaning" section and the change to the Coverage section.
(10:06:25) tibbs: Those were the two changes I proposed.
(10:06:40) tibbs: Well, mjk proposed them and I wrote them up.
(10:06:53) thl: okay; then I'd say we give all FESCo members a chance to look at it in the next week
(10:07:01) thl: and we vote on it next week
(10:07:05) thl: that okay for everybody?
(10:07:11) bpepple: fine by me.
(10:07:14) rdieter: ok.
(10:07:18) c4chris: k
(10:07:37) thl has changed the topic to: FESCO meeting -- When to moidify other peoples packages
(10:07:50) thl: k, what do people think?
(10:07:57) thl: do we want to wait another week?
(10:08:07) c4chris: looks fine to me as is
(10:08:09) thl: discussion on f-e-l was smaller than I expected
(10:08:23) warren [i=warren]  entered the room.
(10:08:37) rdieter: fine, I'm +1 (now, no need to wait)
(10:08:37) c4chris: the only conflictual part has been removed...
(10:08:37) tibbs: I think it's fine; we can always tweak it if there are problems.
(10:08:42) bpepple: looks good to me also. The only complaint I heard was about FESCO members being sponsors.
(10:08:47) warren: Sorry folks, i'm here now
(10:09:13) jeremy: it looked fine to me too
(10:09:32) thl: okay, so then let's do a final vote
(10:09:42) c4chris: +1
(10:09:43) thl: +1 for the proposal in http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/Schedule/FixStuffThatNeedsFixing
(10:09:44) bpepple: +1
(10:09:46) spot: +1
(10:09:55) jeremy: +1
(10:09:56) scop: +1
(10:10:01) rdieter: +1 (still)
(10:10:08) abadger1999: +1
(10:10:16) tibbs: +1
(10:10:25) thl: hey, that was easy
(10:10:28) thl: settled
(10:10:32) thl: moving on
(10:10:47) c4chris: wow, 9 total :)
(10:10:49) thl has changed the topic to: FESCO meeting -- Enterprise Extras
(10:11:08) thl: so, have all read jeremy's mail?
(10:11:14) thl: he sent it 20 minutes ago
(10:11:14) bpepple: yup.
(10:11:16) c4chris: yup
(10:11:18) jeremy has changed the topic to: FESCO meeting -- EPEL
(10:11:20) green_ [n=green]  entered the room.
(10:11:20) tibbs: Yes.
(10:11:23) rdieter: rock.
(10:11:24) abadger1999: yes
(10:11:32) tibbs: They don't like the name?
(10:12:06) jeremy: tibbs: there's a bit of an impossible quandry in naming. we can't do fedora, we can't do rhel, we can't do centos... so I think we're to as good as we can get
(10:12:19) jeremy: but if someone has other ideas, I'm more than willing to try to run with them
(10:13:06) tibbs: I guess it's up to those who don't like it to suggest something that would make them happier.
(10:13:28) giallu left the room (quit: Connection timed out).
(10:13:44) dgilmore: tibbs: +1
(10:13:47) jeremy: tibbs: I tend to agree... and that's what I told the marketing people. if they can come up with something better, I'll run with it to this side too :)
(10:14:40) tibbs: So where do we go from here?
(10:14:43) thl: jeremy, btw, didn#t they like the short version (EPEL) or the long one
(10:15:03) thl: tibbs, I think we proceed as planed
(10:15:03) jeremy: thl: the short version went over better for the most part
(10:15:08) jeremy: and yeah, proceed as planned
(10:15:23) dgilmore: jeremy: so you can get us started with branches?
(10:15:25) thl: that means: dgilmore and mmcgrath look into branching some packages in cvs
(10:15:33) thl: test the buildsys
(10:16:01) thl: build some packages
(10:16:02) kushal [n=kd]  entered the room.
(10:16:07) thl: if that's done some of the FESCo members start to build their packages
(10:16:13) jeremy: dgilmore: yeah, you and/or mmcgrath can catch up with me and we'll make it happen
(10:16:27) dgilmore: jeremy: :) ill grab you latter about it
(10:16:28) thl: jeremy, your opinion please: where to upload packages?
(10:16:32) a16556dw left the room (quit: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
(10:17:00) thl: jeremy, would something like http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/epel work?
(10:17:14) dgilmore: thl: /pub/fedora/extras/epel/<version>/<arch>
(10:17:15) jeremy: thl: maybe. let me think for a little bit
(10:17:28) thl: jeremy, thx
(10:17:47) thl: dgilmore, some mirror admins didn#t like that to much
(10:18:02) thl: they want it seperated from the fedora extras stuff
(10:18:04) thl: afaics
(10:18:22) thl: any further question regarding epel?
(10:18:27) warren: none here
(10:18:58) thl has changed the topic to: FESCO meeting -- Packaging Committee Report
(10:19:06) thl: spot, abadger1999, rdieter, tibbs, scop ?
(10:19:10) tibbs: No meeting this week.
(10:19:20) drpixel [n=drpixel]  entered the room.
(10:19:22) abadger1999: And meetings are happening on Tuesdays
(10:19:25) tibbs: The time is changing; next meeting will be Tuesday.
(10:19:33) nim-nim [n=nim-nim]  entered the room.
(10:19:33) abadger1999: So we can email changes to the list.
(10:19:38) spot: we're nuking X-Fedora though.
(10:19:47) bpepple: That make sense.
(10:20:06) thl: okay
(10:20:09) warren: BTW, timezone is shifting soon
(10:20:09) tibbs: spot: Did we get sufficient votes? I haven't checked my mail.
(10:20:22) warren: we should plan next week's meeting time explicitly so people aren't confused
(10:20:25) spot: tibbs: i think so, i havent voted yet, but i'm +1
(10:20:33) tibbs: That would do it, then.
(10:20:34) thl has changed the topic to: FESCO meeting -- time zone
(10:20:48) thl: so next week is then 18:00 UTC ?
(10:21:01) dgilmore: thl: sure
(10:21:01) warren: I'm not sure about the implications yet.
(10:21:05) ***thl always get confused by that timeshifts
(10:21:11) rdieter: worksforme
(10:21:24) thl: I think that was the agreement this spring
(10:21:33) thl: 17:00 UTC during summers and 18:00 during winters
(10:21:44) thl: so the effective time stays the same for most people
(10:21:48) thl: afaik
(10:21:51) bpepple: sounds good.
(10:21:53) Belegdol [n=jsikorsk entered the room.
](10:21:54) warren: when does the european timezone shift?
(10:21:58) c4chris: sounds fine to me
(10:21:58) thl: Saturday
(10:22:07) warren: and we're sunday
(10:22:15) warren: so nothing apparent changes for us =)
(10:22:24) thl: warren, well, in fact it's early Sunday here, too
(10:22:35) warren: OK, let's move forward.
(10:22:45) thl has changed the topic to: FESCO meeting -- Sponsorship nominations
(10:22:53) thl: cwickert ?
(10:22:58) warren: One question first
(10:23:03) thl: warren, shoot
(10:23:09) warren: Only FESCO members vote for sponsorship nominations count right?
(10:23:16) ***jwb is here
(10:23:20) thl: warren, yes
(10:23:29) warren: ok, proceed
(10:23:41) thl: okay, so cwickert again
(10:23:47) thl: he recieved some +1 on the list
(10:23:54) thl: and no one complained afaics
(10:23:55) thl: so +1
(10:23:59) warren: +1
(10:24:00) c4chris: +1
(10:24:03) bpepple: +1
(10:24:09) spot: +1
(10:24:16) abadger1999: +1
(10:24:35) thl: okay, accepted
(10:24:54) tibbs: I abstained because I'm not familiar enough with his work.
(10:25:01) scop: ditto
(10:25:05) thl: so, what about "Mamoru Tasaka" ?
(10:25:12) warren: +1
(10:25:13) thl: you've seen the discussions on the list
(10:25:15) warren: Yes
(10:25:25) bpepple: +1
(10:25:35) thl: I'm not to familiar with his work, but he get's a +1 from me, too
(10:25:43) jwb: i'll abstain
(10:25:45) warren: I think his intentions and loyalties are in the right place.
(10:25:55) thl: warren, agreed
(10:25:59) ***spot abstains
(10:26:05) tibbs: Well, Ralf objects, but I'm not sure to what he objects.
(10:26:13) warren: Is Ralf on FESCO?
(10:26:21) tibbs: No, but he is a sponsor
(10:26:23) jwb: warren, that doesn't matter
(10:26:23) rdieter: no
(10:26:34) scop: +0.5, but I think waiting a bit wouldn't hurt
(10:26:34) tibbs: His opinion does matter.
(10:26:38) jwb: he is a sponsor and we should at least investigate some of his concerns
(10:26:40) warren: Ralf objects to a lot of things
(10:26:45) thl: tibbs, sure
(10:26:57) c4chris: I'd prefer to wait a bit... +0.5
(10:27:00) jwb: warren, yes. some of them accurately
(10:27:03) tibbs: Well, that's the problem with Ralf. He objects often, and doesn't often give concrete examples.
(10:27:23) tibbs: The problem is that we're neglecting to approve someone who has a body of reviews, and have just approved someone who has few.
(10:27:33) c4chris: warren, I was going to say exactly the same... :-)
(10:27:43) ***dgilmore abstains also
(10:27:53) dgilmore: but ralf objects to everything
(10:28:09) thl: let's not discuss ralf here
(10:28:14) tibbs: Do note that the PackageStatus report has a link to all of Mamoru's reviews.
(10:28:24) thl: "Mamoru Tasaka" is on topic here
(10:28:31) warren: What damage can really happen here? We'll work through any difficulty if it happens.
(10:28:47) warren: Nobody in FESCO is against it, let's just move forward.
(10:29:05) thl: I tend to think the same
(10:29:09) bpepple: warren: +1
(10:29:13) thl: that were 3 +1, 2 +0.5
(10:29:19) spot: ehh, i'll +1
(10:29:23) spot: give him the benefit of the doubt
(10:29:25) tibbs: Well, I nominated him, and he has actually expressed interest in becoming a sponsor.
(10:29:33) warren: and he's pretty productive
(10:29:33) c4chris: k, +1 then
(10:29:45) nbecker left the room (quit: Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)).
(10:29:47) tibbs: So obviously +1 from me.
(10:29:48) dgilmore: +1 on tibbs recomendation
(10:29:54) ***warren got some useful patches for Core from him too.
(10:29:55) thl: 7x+1, 2x0.5
(10:30:12) thl: means accepted
(10:30:23) thl: tibbs, what's his username?
(10:30:53) thl: btw, didn't re nominate a thir person last week?
(10:31:00) thl: s/re/we/
(10:31:02) thl: third
(10:31:07) ***bpepple thought it was only the two.
(10:31:07) thl: steven?
(10:31:20) tibbs: Yes, silug was also mentioned.
(10:31:29) tibbs: Lots of packages, not many reviews.
(10:31:38) c4chris: I think there's still the case of pfj...
(10:31:41) tibbs: He had come up a couple ofmonths ago as well.
(10:31:44) thl: okay, I'll propose him on the list
(10:31:56) cwickert [n=chris]  entered the room.
(10:31:56) tibbs: And yes, we really should reconsider pfj.
(10:32:13) thl: can anyone propose them on the sponsors-list?
(10:32:16) warren: BTW, another topic that we need to discuss sometime (maybe not today) is to formally create other paths to gain higher ranks in the project.
(10:32:25) warren: (Initial sponsorship especially)
(10:32:36) thl: then we can discuss those two in the next with all sponsors (including ralf)
(10:32:43) thl: and vote on it next week
(10:32:57) bpepple: warren: Doesn't that tie into co-maintainership a bit?
(10:33:43) thl: bpepple, maybe
(10:33:49) tibbs: Folks, the account system is behaving badly for me at the moment; I think Mamoru's ID is mtasaka.
(10:33:50) thl: warren, or do you have any ideas?
(10:34:04) c4chris: brb
(10:34:46) thl: seems not
(10:35:07) thl: does anybody know pfj and silug quite well and can nominate them on the sponsors list?
(10:35:29) warren: bpepple, not exactly
(10:35:42) thl: hey, come one; do I have to do this as well?
(10:35:43) tibbs: I have worked with both of them; I'm just not sure that silug meets the criteria because I'm no longer sure what the criteria are.
(10:36:04) warren: tibbs, that is part of what i'm talking about.
(10:36:04) tibbs: pfj I will happily nominate.
(10:36:19) abadger1999: Does he understand packaging.
(10:36:24) Finalzone left the room (quit: "Leaving.").
(10:36:27) thl has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting -- sponsorship criteria
(10:36:37) tibbs: abadger1999: Yes, he understands packaging.
(10:36:38) abadger1999: I think that being able to demonstrate that is the short version.
(10:36:40) warren: We've began to promote people to sponsorship status who didn't fill the past role of "active reviewer". Some were only very active packagers but didn't do much reviewing.
(10:36:57) ***thl for example
(10:37:04) tibbs: In fact, he's directly or indirectly (via cpanspec) responsible for most of the Perl module stuff in Extras.
(10:37:19) jwb: i think i fit that bill
(10:37:30) warren: We also need to create a formal way to get people into the first rank (sponsored) without necessarily submitting packages, like if they are clearly qualified and want to maintain 17 orphans, and an existing sponsor is willing to accept responsibility for their education and fixing their mistakes.
(10:37:50) warren: We need to formalize multiple possible paths to gain ranks.
(10:37:56) warren: and write them down
(10:38:06) Finalzone [n=luya]  entered the room.
(10:38:17) thl: warren, agreed, but the co-maintainershipt should help the "take over orphans" things, too
(10:38:30) bpepple: thl: That's what I was sorta thinking.
(10:38:56) warren: Another example is one Fedora contributor and community leader in Japan. He wants to build a fedora contributing community in Japan, but they aren't able to effectively communicate in English. I want to eventually give him sponsorship status and he can be responsible for bringing in non-english contributors, educating and being accountable to their mistakes.
(10:39:25) jwb: warren, i've been wondering about that as well
(10:39:29) thl: warren, can you write your ideas doen a bit?
(10:39:34) tibbs: Conveniently, Mamoru may be able to help with that.
(10:39:35) thl: warren, I can prepare a page in hte wiki
(10:39:36) warren: Yeah, I should start this on-list.
(10:39:44) thl: warren, thx
(10:39:51) warren: Yeah, Mamoru could help Dairiki.
(10:39:56) Belegdol: what's the difference between dajavu-fonts (Extras) and dejavu-lgc-fonts (Core)?
(10:40:06) warren: Belegdol, off-topic, we're in a meeting here.
(10:40:20) Belegdol: oh, sorry. did not know that
(10:40:24) thl: do we want want to discuss this further now?
(10:40:36) warren: Not really, need to expand this. Will go on extras-list
(10:40:49) warren: Where are the existing co-maintainership proposed plans?
(10:40:51) warren: I can fold that in
(10:41:03) thl has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting -- approve kmod's
(10:41:11) bpepple: warren: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/Schedule/Comaintainership
(10:41:18) warren: thx
(10:41:19) thl: warren, everything should be linked from the schedule page in the wiki always
(10:41:51) thl: rt2x00-kmod still on the list
(10:41:59) warren: part of my ideas here is to also create a numbered ranking structure, like FD0, FD1, FD2, FD3, etc. This will be useful as we merge Core + Extras + Legacy and form subsets of ACL groups.
(10:41:59) thl: jwb, what do you think?
(10:42:11) Belegdol left the room (quit: "Leaving").
(10:42:17) ***cweyl grabs his rabble seat a touch late
(10:42:34) jwb: thl, it troubles me... but i cannot vote against it at the moment
(10:42:53) warren: bug #?
(10:42:54) thl: I think the code is clearly on the road to the kenrnel
(10:43:03) f13: warren: oh come on, you want to do a level based system right? level 1 packager, level 2 packager, level 4 reviewer, and of course, the level 20 release maintainer
(10:43:08) thl: so it's acceptable for the kmod rules
(10:43:10) bpepple: warren: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=202528
(10:43:19) jwb: thl, yes i can agree with that
(10:43:22) thl: the other stuff is a matter of the review IMHO
(10:43:27) thl: (mostly)
(10:43:33) ***f13 weilds his +4 specslicer
(10:43:43) thl: but I'm sure jwb, scop and I will watch the kmod packages
(10:43:45) jima: f13: i knew this thread was on its way to a d&d joke.
(10:43:52) spot: can i have a mountain dew?
(10:44:04) warren: f13, it was just an idea, we can discuss options.
(10:44:05) dgilmore: spot: nope
(10:44:11) warren: f13, (later)
(10:44:17) jima: spot: we're out of everything but coke here :(
(10:44:18) thl: so I'm inclined to allow rt2x00-kmod (and the devicescape stack that's part of it)
(10:44:37) tibbs: Has anyone talked to Linville about this?
(10:44:50) thl: don't think so
(10:44:54) tibbs: He probably has a better handle on what's happening with wireless than we do.
(10:45:17) thl: tibbs, good idea, I'll ask him
(10:45:22) tibbs: For all we know, he already has it in his kernels.
(10:45:54) thl: and in the netdev-tree with the other devicescape stuff
(10:45:59) scop: my +1 for the package unless Linville yells
(10:46:01) thl: that's planed to get merged sooner or later
(10:46:05) warren: +1 for scop
(10:46:10) jwb: scop, +1
(10:46:14) abadger1999: scop: +1
(10:46:15) rdieter: scop +1
(10:46:17) thl: scop, +1
(10:46:22) bpepple: scop: +1
(10:46:24) c4chris: +1
(10:46:29) tibbs: +1
(10:46:38) thl: okay, nearly accepted (I'll ask Linville)
(10:46:44) dgilmore: +1
(10:46:53) thl has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting -- Maintainer Responsibility Policy
(10:46:59) thl: sorry, to much work atm
(10:47:08) thl: anyone interested in drivering this forward?
(10:47:18) warren: I can ask linville
(10:47:26) |DrJef| [n=jefrey]  entered the room.
(10:47:32) thl: e.g. kick of a discussion on f-e-l, write a proposal, discuss it again, ... ?
(10:47:39) tibbs: I would really like to see this driven forward.
(10:47:40) warren: oh
(10:47:55) thl: warren, thx for asking linville
(10:47:58) tibbs: I just don't know if I can drive it at the moment. Maybe in a few days.
(10:47:59) c4chris: no time atm (winter term starting here...)
(10:48:23) bpepple: I can work on it.
(10:48:58) thl: bpepple, k, thx, you'll be the future owner on the schedule page
(10:49:04) bpepple: np
(10:49:11) thl has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting -- free discussion around extras
(10:49:28) thl: anyone interested in one of the other items from the schedule?
(10:49:33) thl: Comaintainership
(10:49:38) thl: Package Database
(10:49:45) jwb: how's the merge going?
(10:49:45) thl: Use comps.xml properly
(10:49:46) c4chris: any news from the Coverity thing ?
(10:50:01) warren: I thought we shot down the Coverity thing?
(10:50:04) thl: jwb, merge?
(10:50:08) cweyl: thl: is there a comaintainership proposal written up somewhere?
(10:50:16) warren: I made it very clear that it is inappropriate for Fedora to do anything with Coverity.
(10:50:19) c4chris: jwb, ?
(10:50:22) jwb: thl, core+extras merge
(10:50:31) bpepple: cweyl: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/Schedule/Comaintainership
(10:50:34) thl: cweyl, comaintainership mostly waits for a new VCS and the package database
(10:50:35) cweyl: bpepple: thx :)
(10:50:47) c4chris: warren, k, then we should remove this from the schedule page...
(10:51:11) thl: c4chris, it it still there?
(10:51:23) ***thl can't locate it
(10:51:23) c4chris: MISC -long term
(10:51:38) thl: ohh, thx
(10:51:56) thl: well, I can't rememebr if it was shot down completely, but if it was
(10:51:59) thl: then I'll remove it
(10:52:05) thl: and it looks like it was
(10:52:21) thl has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting -- core+extras merge
(10:52:26) thl: warren, jeremy, f13
(10:52:33) thl: everybody is talking about it now and then
(10:52:50) thl: but we outside of RH don't know much about it
(10:52:55) thl: is that on purpose?
(10:53:04) thl: or is that a "we need to get some work done"
(10:53:10) warren: thl, people have been pretty stressed out with FC6 and RHEL5 fires lately, little time to work on merge
(10:53:18) thl: or "we need the package database and the new VCS first"?
(10:53:24) jwb: warren, how do we enable non-RH people to work on it?
(10:53:31) warren: good question....
(10:53:49) warren: jeremy, f13: have time to talk about our next steps this week?
(10:54:20) warren: jeremy earlier this week had an interesting idea that I hadn't considered before regarding merge.
(10:54:28) thl: there is also still the question: do we switch to real relases for extras whith the merge?
(10:54:35) warren: That the necessary pieces are huge and numerous, and we should take this step-by-step instead.
(10:54:37) f13: warren: possibly, there is some discussion happening in the Fedora Board right now.
(10:54:47) jima: thl: i suspect so.
(10:54:48) warren: f13, ok
(10:55:05) thl: jima, /me, too, that's why I'm asking ;)
(10:55:18) f13: thl: I suspect that we'll have two teams going. One team is concentrating on the Package Universe as a whole and keeping things going, while there will also be a Release team that will set a freeze time and manage the branching for the release.
(10:55:44) |DrJef|: thl, i think at the end of the day... both core and extras will have to shift a little in release model... to mini-releases
(10:55:51) jwb: i'm only interested in the VCS merge at the moment
(10:55:55) warren: thl, we inside have a little room to breathe now that FC6 is out, I suspect we'll have a better clue by next week's meeting.
(10:55:56) jwb: i view that as step 1
(10:56:00) f13: devel/ will ever be rolling, while releases are actual releases with actual 'updates' issued.
(10:56:01) |DrJef|: thl, not unlike what fedora unity respins are doing already
(10:56:12) warren: Yes indeed, jeremy suggested that as step 1.
(10:56:22) jima: jwb: is step 2 buildsys unity?
(10:56:25) warren: and to even use CVS at first because we KNOW how it works, and we can migrate off of it later.
(10:56:26) ***f13 is making some progress with mercurial.
(10:56:35) |DrJef|: thl, but 'end of the day' is a ways off
(10:56:49) jwb: jima, not sure
(10:56:52) warren: f13, did you adapt the package dir makefiles to it?
(10:57:36) Tjikkun_ left the room (quit: "Ex-Chat").
(10:57:37) thl: |DrJef|, I think the respins from unity are something good (but of course hard to support)
(10:57:37) sureshot [n=sureshot]  entered the room.
(10:58:03) warren: thl, No objection from linville regarding that kmod, although he is confused about "it looks like his spec is pulling the stack from somewhere other than wireless-dev"
(10:58:11) jima: pungi (if it takes off) ought to be nice for fedora unity's respins.
(10:58:29) sureshot left the room ("Konversation terminated!").
(10:58:32) thl: warren, k, noted; somebody should mention it in the bug
(10:58:46) thl: warren, maybe it's the rt2x00 project that did it
(10:58:49) warren: thl, I'll have him follow-up through bugzilla.
(10:58:54) thl: warren, great
(10:59:02) jwb: thl, i think is the case
(10:59:05) f13: warren: haven't made quite that much progress, more like getting the xen box setup for it.
(10:59:21) thl: well, seems we're at the the end of the "merge" debatte for now
(10:59:24) f13: warren: I have done some personal migrations of CVS to Xen, complete with some Makefile adjustments for tagging.
(10:59:32) |DrJef|: thl, im not saying spin up isos.. on the master server with every iso release.. what im saying is.. there is gonna need to be some timestamping so we can point to a consistent universe of packages in coxtras that can be spun up by community members with tools like the thing f13 is pimping lately
(10:59:35) warren: f13, we have a mercurial testbed in the fedora xen too, not sure if any progress happened there after I left for Asia though.
(10:59:39) thl: I'll put it on the schedule so we talk about it now and then in future meetings
(10:59:52) |DrJef|: thl, timestamping like quarterly
(10:59:56) warren: We'll follow up on this next week.
(11:00:06) f13: warren: test1 was handed to me for mecurial testing.
(11:00:15) thl: |DrJef|, yeah, might be a good idea
(11:00:18) warren: f13, ah ok
(11:00:47) thl has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting -- free discussion regarding extras
(11:00:50) thl: anything else?
(11:01:02) c4chris: nope
(11:01:41) ***thl will close the meeting in 60
(11:02:04) dgilmore: Just want to say thanks for the paitence with the buildsys outages
(11:02:09) ***thl will close the meeting in 30
(11:02:15) thl: dgilmore, thx for your work
(11:02:22) thl: on the buildsys
(11:02:29) jwb: indeed. thank you
(11:02:31) ***thl will close the meeting in 10
(11:02:41) thl: -- MARK -- Meeting end