QA/Meetings/20091005

Attendees

People Present (lines said):

• jlaska (111)
• adamw (38)
• wwoods (25)
• Oxf13 (24)
• kparal1 (17)
• skvidal (15)
• buggbot (5)
• poelcat (4)
• zodbot (2)
• brunowolff_ (1)
• Sir_Limpsalot (1)

Regrets:

• Liam Li (lili)
• He Rui (rhe)
• David Pravec (dpravec)

Agenda

• Proposed meeting agenda
• meetbot summary

Preview Meeting follow-up

http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-09-28/fedora-meeting.2009-09-28-16.00.html

Anaconda dependency follow-up

Adamw reminded the group that we hadn't yet followed up on the previous topic raised by dpravec around installer dependencies changing out from under it.

F13 noted that there were discussions with RHT management reminding folks that it was too late to make general (or feature) changes in F-12.

Jlaska asked what specific issues initiated this discussion. Adamw and f13 noted the recent nfs the lvm changes.

AutoQA update

Wwoods wired up the UI, so members of the 'qa' group can now add/remove test results for the manual tests (see [http://wwoods.fedorapeople.org/screenshots/irb.png screenshot). Also decided to defer:

1. sweet ajax UI junk and
2. automating the yum/network tests until after irb.com completes

Reminder of the current roadmap: https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/milestone/israwhidebroken.com. Current tasks include:

1. get links back from israwhidebroken to autotest
2. get it all running in production in public

Jlaska took an action item to sync up w/ mmcgrath to identify next steps when the AutoQA hardware arrives in PHX2.

Packagediff update

Next, kparal updated the group on his packagediff activities. The intention is to alert on important changes between packages, hopefully part of autoqa project in the future.

Currently working 2 tickets:

1. https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/ticket/53 - Investigate what rpmdiff offers to our tests
2. https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/ticket/54 - Write rpmdiff test

The code currently highlights changed dependencies, changed config files, changed file modes and such stuff. Wwoods suggested also falgging added/removed binaries.

Some discussion surfaced around whether Kparal's efforts were based on an older RHT internal project called 'rpmdiff'. Kparal's efforts are entirely based on the rpmlint implementation of rpmdiff. Kparal is currently waiting for some feedback on a few rpmdiff issues. Skvidal recommended reaching out to ville skytta.

F-12-Beta QA Readiness

Jlaska asked the team for help preparing for the upcoming Go/No Go decision at the upcoming rel-eng meeting. The team informally walked the remaining F12Beta blocker bugs.

F13 asked if any blocker bug candidates came out of the Test Day. Aside from RHBZ #517260 it wasn't clear yet whether any of the recorded test day bugs (https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-October/msg00058.html) where beta blockers. Jlaska took an action item to catch up with clumens to help review the list. So far, the only Test day bugs raised to the beta blocker list are:

• RHBZ #526842 ASSIGNED - Firstboot not run after installation
• RHBZ #517260 ASSIGNED - liveinst fails at partitioning screeen
• RHBZ #523862 CLOSED RAWHIDE - mdadm craps at boot

Adamw expressed concern around the missing panel icon bug noted on the list by Chuck Anderson (see https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-October/msg00058.html). Turns out this is RHBZ #510249. Mclasen already evaluated and recommended fixing this issue post-Beta.

Jlaska asked for wwoods and skvidal expertise on rhe's preupgrade RHBZ #526208. It's a bug in the F-11 package, but would potentially impact anyone using preupgrade to upgrade from F-11 to F-12. Skvidal intended to investigate the UI issue after the meeting.

Jlaska asked if RHBZ #526535 should be moved into MODIFIED given a package was built and testing requested on fedora-devel-list (see https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2009-October/msg00154.html). Adamw asked what the policy is with regards to MODIFIED bugs. Does MODIFIED mean a package is built and a tag request is submitted? F13 proposed that MODIFIED means a fix is available, but not yet tested or included in the product. This seems to hold when adding the freeze 'tagging' procedure into the mix.

Upcoming QA events

Jlaska did a speedy walk through of upcoming QA related events

• 2009-10-05 - F12 Beta go/no_go meeting (@ 18:00pm - rel-eng meeting)
• 2009-10-06 - BugZappers/Meetings
• 2009-10-07 - Beta Project Wide Release Readiness Meeting
• 2009-10-08 - RAID Test Day
• 2009-10-13 - F12 Beta availability

Open floor - <your topic here>

No open discussion topics were raised.

Action items

1. jlaska to catch up with mmcgrath on delivery of autoqa hardware to PHX
2. jlaska - sync-up with clumens to identify any blocking issues from https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-October/msg00073.html
3. poelcat to check in on beta blocker status of 510249

IRC transcript

jlaska	#startmeeting Fedora QA meeting	16:00
zodbot	Meeting started Mon Oct 5 16:00:39 2009 UTC. The chair is jlaska. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.	16:00
zodbot	Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.	16:00
jlaska	#topic Gathering able bodied persons	16:00
adamw	morning	16:00
* kparal1 says hi		16:01
adamw	that topic is discriminatory against disabled qa people.	16:01
adamw	i say this only half in jest, because, well, it actually is =)	16:01
kparal1	but only for english people, i myself didn't get that :)	16:01
jlaska	adamw: Well certainly no ill will intended ... of course will adjust in the future	16:02
adamw	interesting where a running joke can get you, hehe	16:02
jlaska	;)	16:02
jlaska	I thought I was safe not limiting the meeting to gender	16:03
adamw	ah, it's never that easy	16:03
jlaska	indeed	16:03
jlaska	okay, who else do we have	16:03
adamw	aaaaaanyway	16:03
jlaska	I sense the presence of wwoods ... lurking in the shadows	16:03
* wwoods rolls a Stealth check		16:04
jlaska	Oxf13 is around too I believe	16:04
* Oxf13		16:04
jlaska	We'll be missing dpravec today	16:05
jlaska	so let's get started	16:05
jlaska	#topic Previous Meeting Follow-up	16:05
jlaska	First ... an apology	16:05
jlaska	there will only be 1 QA meeting right now ... contrary to the dueling agendas posted to the list	16:05
* adamw leads his followers to #confederate-fedora-meeting		16:06
jlaska	adamw: take the action items with you please!	16:06
adamw	=)	16:06
jlaska	I didn't have any recorded action items from last weeks meeting	16:06
* jlaska looking at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-09-28/fedora-meeting.2009-09-28-16.00.html		16:06
jlaska	adamw: was there anything not recorded that you wanted to discuss from last week?	16:07
adamw	nothing specific from last week that i can think of, but we could follow up on the discussion of development issues from a couple of weeks ago, now more people are here	16:07
adamw	esp. oxf13	16:07
adamw	Oxf13: you remember that? the talk about anaconda dependencies and rhel changes parachuted into fedora...	16:07
Oxf13	vaguely	16:08
adamw	you mentioned there were meetings at which some of those issues could be raised - gone anywhere with that?	16:08
Oxf13	yeah, we re-affirmed to RHT management that it is too late to make feature changes in F12	16:09
adamw	great	16:09
adamw	was there any pushback?	16:09
Oxf13	not yet	16:10
jlaska	I don't have the full history of this discussion topic ... was this anaconda specific ... or general changes?	16:10
adamw	jlaska: it was a wide-ranging discussion :)	16:10
jlaska	that's my guess based on recent f-d-list threads	16:11
adamw	jlaska: it started with someone (dpravec iirc) raising anaconda team's concerns that things anaconda depended on were being changed in major ways too close to the beta	16:11
Oxf13	eg nfs	16:11
jlaska	gotcha .. yeah a fair concern	16:11
adamw	it broadened out a bit from there into general issues causing undesirable changes in late pre-pre-release phases	16:11
jlaska	lvm	16:11
adamw	yeah that stuff	16:12
Oxf13	right and lvm	16:12
adamw	though the discussion was right before the lvm storm broke iirc	16:12
jlaska	dcantrell has some interesting testing that's maturing ... but could potentially be used to highlight these types of issues in the future	16:12
jlaska	might be worth having a presentation/discussion as his tests mature at FUDCon perhaps	16:13
adamw	roger	16:13
jlaska	certainly won't solve all the worlds problems, but might help give the anaconda team a heads up when things they rely on are changed out from under them	16:13
jlaska	#idea How can the QA team support dcantrell's anaconda A[BP]I checking routines	16:14
jlaska	any other points on this topic?	16:14
jlaska	if so ... we might choose to make this a repeating topic	16:15
adamw	i'd rather not, meetings are long enough as it isw	16:15
adamw	i just wanted to follow up on the discussion, and we couldn't do it last week as jesse wasn't here	16:15
jlaska	roger	16:15
jlaska	alrighty ... next up we've got a quick check-in on the AutoQA front	16:16
jlaska	#topic AutoQA update	16:16
jlaska	wwoods: you've got the floor	16:16
wwoods	let's see	16:16
wwoods	last week I wired up the UI, so members of the 'qa' group can now add/remove test results for the manual tests	16:17
wwoods	(this is for the israwhidebroken mini-frontend)	16:17
jlaska	#link http://wwoods.fedorapeople.org/screenshots/irb.png	16:17
wwoods	we decided to defer a) sweet ajax UI junk and b) automating the yum/network tests until later	16:18
wwoods	so here's the current roadmap: https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/milestone/israwhidebroken.com	16:18
wwoods	basically it comes down to: 1) get links back from israwhidebroken to autotest	16:18
wwoods	and then 2) get it all running in production in public	16:19
jlaska	#action jlaska to catch up with mmcgrath on delivery of autoqa hardware to PHX	16:19
wwoods	yeah there's rumors that our autoqa hardware may be arriving soon?	16:19
jlaska	I got word on Friday that "it's in the mail"	16:20
wwoods	nice	16:20
jlaska	definitely! I took an action to sync up with infrastructure to figure out what we need to do once the hardware lands	16:20
wwoods	so yeah, getting the backreferences to autotest turns out to be nontrivial but I've been talking with upstream and we'll work something out	16:21
wwoods	after that it's all ready to go into "production"	16:21
* jlaska queues the suspense music		16:21
wwoods	for values of "production" roughly equal to "public early beta"	16:21
wwoods	still: woo!	16:22
jlaska	right on ... I second that 'woo'	16:22
wwoods	think that's all from mem	16:22
wwoods	err, me	16:22
jlaska	wwoods: thanks for the update!	16:22
jlaska	kparal1: any updates on the packagediff piece you're investigating?	16:22
kparal1	well, i have started to write a test for comparing old and new rpm package	16:23
kparal1	it will be hopefully part of autqa in the future	16:23
kparal1	the intention is to alert on important changes between packages	16:23
kparal1	currently i'm announcing changed dependencies, changed config files, changed file modes and such stuff	16:24
wwoods	nice!	16:24
kparal1	developing goes slowly because i can't devote it much time but i hope it will be usable soon	16:25
wwoods	adding/removing binaries should definitely be announced as well	16:25
kparal1	yes, that's in the plan: https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/ticket/53	16:25
* wwoods reviews		16:25
kparal1	you can see my code, i have put it online: https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/ticket/54	16:25
wwoods	pretty sure we talked about all that stuff before so I'm sure it's all here	16:25
kparal1	it's just a first shot and i'm learning python with it, so be mercifull :)	16:26
kparal1	i think that's all from me	16:26
jlaska	kparal1: hah! you've taken on quite a challenge for first time python (e.g. rpm libs)	16:26
kparal1	also there are some bugs waiting in rpmdiff to be fixed, but the rpmlint project seems a little dead now (trac not working properly, mailing list halted)	16:27
kparal1	but hopefully skvidal will help me with that	16:27
* skvidal looks up		16:27
skvidal	kparal1: ah yes - your email from last week	16:28
Oxf13	kparal1: is this working from existing rpmdiff code?	16:28
skvidal	Oxf13: not the rhel rpmdiff	16:28
Oxf13	right	16:28
skvidal	Oxf13: the rpmlint, rpmdiff	16:28
Oxf13	that one is still closed	16:28
kparal1	Oxf13: yes, i'm using the public rpmdiff in my script	16:28
Oxf13	*stab*	16:28
skvidal	Oxf13: and will, afaict, never be opened	16:28
jlaska	in my best ed mcmahon "you sir, are correct sir"	16:29
skvidal	kparal1: I think I should talk to Ville - see if he has any thoughts	16:29
kparal1	Ville is irc nick?	16:29
skvidal	jlaska: you realize how old that makes you sound that 1. you know who ed mcmahon is 2. you know who he would say that to 3. you know the snl bit about that	16:29
skvidal	kparal1: he's almost never on irc - ville skytta	16:29
jlaska	skvidal: ;)	16:29
kparal1	skvidal: ok, thx	16:29
skvidal	kparal1: when he is on irc he's scop	16:30
jlaska	alrighty ... aside from just a quick run through of upcoming QA events ... I wanted to spend some time surveying the group for our Beta readiness	16:31
jlaska	#topic F-12-Beta QA readiness	16:31
jlaska	Oxf13 will be hosting a go/no_go discussion on the beta today during the rel-eng meeting (@ 18:00 UTC)	16:31
jlaska	but I thought we could spend a few minutes here making sure that all the _hot_ issues are on the radar ... and see if anything is stuck in process	16:31
Oxf13	looking pretty no-go at this point	16:32
adamw	yeah, not much movement on bugs over the weekend :/	16:32
jlaska	pulling up the F12Beta blocker bug report ...	16:32
jlaska	https://bugzilla.redhat.com/showdependencytree.cgi?id=F12Beta&hide_resolved=1	16:32
Oxf13	still no first boot, nm-gnome crashes, ppc64 netboot missing, and aliveinst failure?	16:32
brunowolff_	mdadm got fixed	16:32
Oxf13	adamw: party my fault. I didn't look at the tag queue last night, got tied up with family stuff	16:32
jlaska	and the util-linux-ng issue has a build+tag request in I believe	16:33
Oxf13	yeah, some stuff needs testing to clear the tag queue	16:33
adamw	hum	16:33
adamw	important point: that's an entirely different networkmanager crash report from the one we worked on in the meeting	16:34
adamw	it's been tagged as a blocker independently	16:34
adamw	may be a dupe of the other report	16:34
adamw	i will check	16:34
Oxf13	ok	16:34
jlaska	while adamw's looking for that NM issue ... are there any other bugs that aren't represented on the current blocker list that folks are concerned about?	16:35
adamw	that 'invisible icons' bug from the list looks icky	16:37
adamw	though i'm not clear on the exact symptoms	16:37
Oxf13	jlaska: anything come up in the anaconda test day?	16:38
jlaska	https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-October/msg00058.html	16:38
* Sir_Limpsalot sneaks inn..		16:38
Oxf13	as far as blocker worthy bugs	16:39
jlaska	Oxf13: a few bugs ... but don't have enough info yet as to whether they are common or exceptions	16:40
adamw	hi there	16:40
jlaska	we have the ongoing pain with yaboot not properly booting after some scenarios (bug#523754)	16:40
buggbot	Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=523754 is not accessible.	16:40
jlaska	hmm, that's not the right bz ... try bug#523754	16:41
jlaska	oh perms on the bz ... odd	16:41
adamw	that's the same number you just said	16:41
jlaska	sure is :)	16:41
jlaska	there's a few like that against Fedora ... specific to ppc ... and I Think they're all related to the same core yaboot issue	16:42
jlaska	this is going off my gut feel from testing, so could be wrong	16:42
jlaska	it's not a new problem though, so I wouldn't raise this is a beta blocker	16:42
jlaska	it looks like the anaconda-devel team has already started working the test day bugs ... I'll see if I can get clumens to help identify and alarming storage issues in the list	16:43
jlaska	#action jlaska - sync-up with clumens to identify any blocking issues from https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-October/msg00073.html	16:44
jlaska	there were a few RAID related issues, but as brunowolff_ said ... a fix is already tagged for that	16:44
jlaska	adamw: anything else on the invisible icon thread? https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-October/msg00058.html	16:45
jlaska	mclasen called out bug#510249 on this issue	16:45
buggbot	Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=510249 medium, low, ---, mclasen, ASSIGNED, Missing panel applets on gnome login; "Glib-GObject-CRITICAL" messages....	16:46
jlaska	which is currently marked as a F12Blocker	16:46
adamw	jlaska: no, i just saw it this morning, haven't looked into it much yet	16:46
jlaska	The live install experience has become pretty annoying ... not sure if other see that as well	16:46
jlaska	in that nautilus windows keep popping up while you're formatting the disks (bug#527091)	16:47
buggbot	Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=527091 medium, low, ---, anaconda-maint-list, NEW, Installer causes a number of popups when creating filesystems	16:47
poelcat	jlaska: should 510249 be a beta blocker?	16:47
* poelcat read the bug last night... wasn't sure		16:47
jlaska	poelcat: that's the one from the thread adamw noted	16:48
poelcat	right... it's blocking final, but not beta	16:48
jlaska	claimed fixed for Alpha, then reopened it seems	16:49
jlaska	someone want to take an action on this to follow-up w/ mclasen on this bug?	16:49
* poelcat will post to f-desktop-list		16:51
jlaska	#action poelcat to check in on beta blocker status of 510249	16:51
jlaska	poelcat: thx!	16:51
jlaska	there are several other action items we addressed in the Friday bug meeting ... https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-October/msg00046.html	16:51
jlaska	in response to that meeting ... there is a new NM available for testing from dcbw (see https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2009-October/msg00154.html)	16:52
jlaska	testing against that would be appreciated!	16:53
jlaska	any other beta concerns not currently on the list?	16:53
Oxf13	I need to get a new fedora-release out there	16:54
Oxf13	forgot to do that	16:54
jlaska	wwoods: I noticed that irb.com still has the Oct 02 images ... I gather rawhide hasn't built since then?	16:54
Oxf13	today has been built, but it is taking a long time to sync	16:55
Oxf13	due to signed rpms	16:55
jlaska	Oxf13: gotcha, thx	16:55
wwoods	jlaska: that'd be my first guess	16:56
jlaska	wwoods: did you or skvidal have any thoughts on that F-11 preupgrade bug that F-12-Beta testers would hit?	16:56
skvidal	jlaska: which one	16:57
wwoods	haven't had time to trace it	16:57
skvidal	jlaska: there are 2 bugs I've seen	16:57
jlaska	I think it's bug#526208	16:57
buggbot	Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=526208 low, low, ---, skvidal, ASSIGNED, preupgrade failed from old release(f10, f11)	16:57
skvidal	1. is the doesn't-update-display thing that wwoods mentioned	16:57
wwoods	that's the UI-hang bug	16:57
jlaska	wwoods: yeah, that's the one	16:57
skvidal	2. is the createrepo/yum bug if they are not using latest yum	16:57
skvidal	wwoods: I find 1 odd - I thought it might be a urlgrabber thing but if you can make it happen on pure f11 then not so much	16:58
wwoods	yeah, plain uptodate F11	16:58
jlaska	adamw: should bug#526535 be moved to MODIFIED now?	16:59
buggbot	Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=526535 medium, low, ---, dcbw, NEW, [abrt] crash detected in NetworkManager-gnome-1:0.7.996-3.git20090928.fc12	16:59
adamw	jlaska: we're working on the tagging status	16:59
jlaska	for my own clarification ... it can't go into MODIFIED unless it's also tagged?	17:00
adamw	jlaska: i'm not sure when we should use MODIFIED when we're in a freeze situation...	17:00
skvidal	wwoods: I'll make the bizarro bug my main problem today	17:00
adamw	jlaska: i'm not sure either :)	17:00
jlaska	skvidal: wwoods: thanks gents	17:00
jlaska	Oxf13: do you have any take on the tagging and MODIFIED bz state?	17:01
jlaska	I would think we can mark it as MODIFIED if a package is built, but it can't be tested (and therefore CLOSED RAWHIDE) until it's tagged and readily available. Is that wrong?	17:02
Oxf13	my take is that MODIFIED means something changed, either upstream or locally, but it hasn't been confirmed or built/tagged for rawhide	17:02
Oxf13	just don't /close/ anything unless it gets tagged	17:02
jlaska	agreed	17:02
jlaska	adamw: any objections?	17:03
wwoods	(insert caveats about preupgrade fixes not requiring f12 tags per se here)	17:03
jlaska	wwoods: true, good point	17:03
adamw	jlaska: um. that's probably okay. you can argue it either way, really. just pick an answer and write it down in the lifecycle page :)	17:04
jlaska	adamw: cool, I think we have one then	17:05
jlaska	there's a gap here that leaves ambiguity, but that's not something I'm interested in touching on at the moment	17:05
jlaska	Alrighty ... let's move on to a quick recap of upcoming events	17:05
jlaska	#topic Upcoming QA events	17:05
jlaska	All of the discussion for the last 25 minutes has been around the beta go / no_go meeting coming up in 1 hour	17:06
jlaska	Beta Blocker Bug (go/no go) - Mon 2009-10-05	17:06
jlaska	based on the outcome of that meeting, we may or may not have a ...	17:06
jlaska	* Beta Project Wide Release Readiness Meeting - Wed 2009-10-07	17:06
jlaska	however, either way ... we've got another test day queued up for this thursday	17:06
jlaska	* RAID Test Day - Thu 2009-10-08	17:06
jlaska	If anyone has dmraid hardware, we could use your feedback this thursday	17:07
jlaska	(or any hardware RAID for that matter)	17:07
jlaska	So that's all I have listed for upcoming events ... let's move on to 'open floor'	17:08
jlaska	#topic Open floor - <insert your topic>	17:08
jlaska	Any items folks would like to discuss during the meeting?	17:08
jlaska	quiet ... I'm assuming folks went off for some lunch before the rel-eng meeting then	17:10
Oxf13	something like that	17:10
adamw	i am just aiming not to prolong the meeting :)	17:11
jlaska	alrighty ... let's close it out then	17:11
* kparal1 still here, but no issues		17:11
jlaska	please follow-up to the list for any other concerns	17:11
jlaska	thanks for baring with me through the slooooow bug review part of todays meeting :)	17:12
jlaska	#endmeetings	17:12
jlaska	#endmeeting	17:12

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