Classroom/Ambassador training 20100107

http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-classroom/2010-01-07/fedora-classroom.2010-01-07-15.01.html

http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-classroom/2010-01-07/fedora-classroom.2010-01-07-15.01.log.html

spevack	#startmeeting	10:00
@zodbot	Meeting started Thu Jan 7 15:01:16 2010 UTC. The chair is spevack. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.	10:00
@zodbot	Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.	10:00
spevack	#topic Fedora Classroom -- Ambassadors Tips & Training	10:00
... zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-classroom to: Fedora Classroom -- Ambassadors Tips & Training		10:00
sspreitzer	threethirty, its a french airport, they dont care about things like security as long as you speak french with them. ^^	10:00
spevack	Hi everyone!	10:00
threethirty	hi max	10:00
biertie	hi mr spevack	10:00
sspreitzer	hey max	10:00
cmpahar	hello	10:00
loupgaroublond	'afternoon all	10:00
derikonto	hello	10:01
spevack	Welcome to what is, I think, the first Fedora Classroom session of 2010.	10:01
slipp3d	good day to all...	10:01
cunningham	Hi All	10:01
franciscod	hey everyone	10:01
tatica	*\o/*	10:01
cmpahar	it's the third session :P	10:01
spevack	It's certainly the first Fedora Ambassadors Tips & Training session of 2010 -- we did a few of these sessions last year, but I haven't done one for probably 5 months or so, which means it's definitely time to do it again	10:01
biertie	it's the first time I'm here anyway, so I am looking forward to learn ;)	10:02
cwtucker	+1	10:02
threethirty	+1	10:02
derikonto	+1	10:02
spevack	This is going to be a very interactive session -- I am going to try to ask some questions, and I hope that you guys will give responses, and ask questions of your own	10:03
spevack	My goal is to be finished in 90 minutes, so we have a lot of time.	10:03
spevack	Here's a general agenda for today:	10:03
spevack	(1) What the Fedora Ambassadors project is, and why it is important.	10:03
spevack	(2) What the Fedora Ambassadors project is *not*.	10:03
spevack	(3) How Fedora Ambassadors interact with other parts of the larger Fedora Project.	10:04
spevack	(4) How things operate for Fedora Ambassadors in your particular region of the world. What do you need to know? Where do you need to be paying attention to stuff? What are your resources?	10:04
... join!#fedora-classroom -> hiemanshu(n=hiemansh@fedora/hiemanshu)		10:04
spevack	(5) Whatever else I feel like :)	10:04
spevack		10:04
spevack	Before we get into that -- I'd like to hear from you. Where are you from, and how long have you been part of Fedora, or a Fedora Ambassador?	10:05
spevack	#topic introductions	10:05
... zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-classroom to: introductions		10:05
spevack	go ahead :)	10:05
giannisk	may i start?	10:05
biertie	hi, I'm from Belgium, and I have been in the fedora project for about a year now	10:05
spevack	everyone can talk -- no need to wait	10:05
* tatica = María Leandro = Venezuela // Fedora user since 2007, fedora ambassador since the same year :)		10:06
loupgaroublond	'lo, i'm yaakov m. nemoy, living in the netherlands, been with fedora since spring 2007, i'm an ambassador and rhce / sysadmin	10:06
cmpahar	Hello my name is Christos Bacharakis, i am 22 years old, and i am a part of the fedora community the past one year and a half	10:06
* threethirty is in Richmond, IN, USA been using Fedora since the day after Ohio Linux Fest '09, ambassador since two days ago		10:06
cmpahar	i forgot to say that i come from Greece :)	10:06
derikonto	Hello, I am from France and I'm using fedora since Werewolf (fedora 8), and I'm Ambassador since a few day.	10:07
giannisk	my name is Giannis,I am new ambassador from Greece and I have been using fedora for over 7 months...	10:07
franciscod	hey,I'm Ankur,21, from India, been an ambassador for about a year and a half.	10:07
cunningham	Hi, I'm from Western North Carolina, and am a Fedora user since Fedora 8, and am very new to the greater Fedora community	10:07
cwtucker	Hi, Dallas, Texas area, been a regular user since, redhat 7, then to FC, put it on everyone around, decided to do more with the project, so I am recent ambassador as in two weeks ago	10:07
spevack	threethirty: were you recruited by other Ambassadors at Ohio Linux Fest?	10:07
jensm	Hi, i'm from Germany, using Fedora since F10 and beeing Ambassador since May'09	10:07
threethirty	spevack: nope by spot	10:07
* spevack is thrilled to see so many new folks		10:07
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frankiemangoa	hi	10:08
frankiemangoa	have i missed anything in the meeting so far	10:08
brianritchie	from Malaysia. Been lurking around > 1yr w/ Fedora. considering getting more active now that i am clear on my goals, career wise.	10:08
spevack	so we've got folks here from literally all over the world.	10:08
sspreitzer	my name is sascha and and im part of the project since maybe a year or two. im from germany and switzerland. i travel much and dedicated my private life to spreading the word of freedom. im 24, live in a relationship and have like 80 friends. yes, im a community guy.	10:08
franciscod	frankiemangoa: we're introducing ourselves :)	10:08
sspreitzer	i do linux since im 13 years old	10:08
etank	Hi. I'm Eric Lake (etank) from Lexington KY and I have been an ambassador for about 1 month i think :)	10:09
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sanju	#lug-jaipur	10:09
etank	been using Fedora for about that long	10:09
frankiemangoa	i am frankiemangoa I am 21...just joined a fw weeks ago...from s.a but now in kenya	10:09
spevack	Ok. Anyone else?	10:09
* tatica is so happy to see people from all over the world in a single chat room :D		10:10
* ke4qqq is here - David Nalley - from the US		10:10
slipp3d	my name is Chris and i'm in the USA ... 29 ...	10:10
giannisk	oh,i forgot to mention that I am 15 and a half years old ;)	10:10
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spevack	giannisk: wow! Fedora contributors keep getting younger and younger.	10:11
* inode0 is sort of here - from the frozen tundra in Iowa		10:11
giannisk	yes! ;)	10:11
cwtucker	LOL@ the Tundra	10:11
spevack	Ok -- now that we're done with introductions, I'll make my next point -- and tatica already sort of hinted at it.	10:11
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tatica	o_O	10:11
fugolini	hi	10:11
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spevack	The range of people who have showed up for this session is remarkable. From 15 years old to 150 years old (inode0) -- and from all over the world.	10:11
slipp3d	inode0, I don't know I would bet that us in Montana would be in that frozen tundra comment	10:12
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spevack	More than any other part of the Fedora Project, I believe that the Ambassadors group has the largest variety of people.	10:12
* fugolini agrees		10:13
spevack	This is part of what makes the Ambassadors project valuable, but it also presents some challenges and that is something we'll talk about later.	10:13
tatica	lol @ inode0 150 years old	10:13
spevack	But now, I want to ask another question -- and I don't need all of you to answer or else we'll have chaos -- but I'd like a few people to answer. New folks.	10:13
spevack	What do you think the purpose and goals of something like Fedora Ambassadors is?	10:13
sspreitzer	may I?	10:14
cwtucker	Promotion, Awareness. for starters.	10:14
cunningham	To spread the good news that is Fedora ;)	10:14
threethirty	to be an offical cheerleader for Fedora and Free Software	10:14
jensm	To spread Fedora all over the world	10:14
jensm	:)	10:14
spevack	What else?	10:14
frankiemangoa	fedora is there to provid solutions to problems that arise around the world in a clean way and best of all a free way	10:14
tatica	omg... cheerleader	10:14
sspreitzer	spread the word, speak to people, bridge it back to the project	10:14
cmpahar	to show them the other side of operating systems	10:14
ke4qqq	grow the contributor base	10:14
jensm	to recruit new contributors :)	10:14
fugolini	Find new users and contributors, ready to join the wide development of a great community and a great system	10:15
* tatica will add that beyond spread, ambassadors must be an example		10:15
giannisk	Fedora Ambassadors spread fedora and promote free and opensource software	10:15
slipp3d	to be the public face of fedora	10:15
spevack	ok -- those are all great answers -- and I've seen basically all of the words that I was waiting for in these answers.	10:15
franciscod	to help people learn about fedora, its different teams , how the community works..	10:15
tatica	you can't/must not spread what you don't do	10:15
spevack	Let me comment on a few of these answers.	10:15
spevack	Pretty much everything that folks said is correct -- but in my personal opinion, the #1 goal of Fedora Ambassadors is to be a friendly recruitment engine -- Fedora Ambassadors provide tremendous value in their ability to not only create new Fedora users -- but most importantly to *convert Fedora and Linux users* into Fedora *CONTRIBUTORS*	10:16
spevack	It is a fundamental rule of communities that any community which is not growing is doomed to stagnation and failure.	10:17
spevack	Fedora Ambassadors help make sure that the total Fedora contributor pool continues to grow and change.	10:17
spevack	promoting Fedora, spreading the word about Free Software and its value, and showing people the other options in computing are all part of that	10:18
spevack	and being the public face of Fedora at shows and conferences and schools is also part of it.	10:18
spevack	But one of the things that I always come back to is the fact that we need to be looking for people who want to also help contribute back to the community.	10:18
spevack	threethirty is a Fedora Ambassadors because of the folks he met at Ohio Linux Fest -- a show organized by Ambassadors, and that other Fedora folks like spot were also at doing Fedora stuff.	10:19
spevack	The fact that threethirty is in this classroom today is a perfect example of the success of Ambassadors.	10:19
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* spevack pauses for a few minutes for comments or questions		10:19
tatica	I have something to add, since my experience as mentor now	10:20
spevack	go ahead	10:20
* kital wants to add that an ambassador also is an interface between the groups where he is involved		10:20
kital	ambassadors act in- and outside	10:20
kital	eof	10:20
tatica	ambassadors must have personal goals just next to make people use fedora and get more ambassadors. Sometimes ambassadors only try to recruit more ambassadors but we also need contributors to every team	10:21
spevack	#topic What is Fedora Ambassadors?	10:21
... zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-classroom to: What is Fedora Ambassadors?		10:21
frankiemangoa	true but I must that sometimes there is a chalenge in holding these events in school.how sure are we that the message we are spreading is the same across the globe.i think the functions of an ambassador can not be ust said in a few words..we need to expound on this especaally to new members.maybe revise the fnctions in a good way	10:21
spevack	Two great points by tatica and kital -- and two points that we will probably discuss again later, but are worth mentioning again now.	10:21
frankiemangoa	that is apart from what is in the wiki	10:21
tatica	is an ambassador don't know how to contribute in anything, he must/should learn, so he/she can also encourage other people to help fedora and show that to the world	10:21
ke4qqq	yes - perhaps to grow on that - it's also liaison between fp.o and other projects, and while not necessarily directly, but serendipitously growing the entire FLOSS ecosystem. For instance, we help zikula, and we both benefit.	10:21
spevack	(1) In many cases, Ambassadors are able to serve as the interaction between different parts of Fedora.	10:22
tatica	there is always a little time to do something more besides make an event or attend to one	10:22
tatica	eof	10:22
spevack	(2) Ambassadors need to be thinking about recruiting folks who can participate in ANY part of Fedora, not just other Ambassadors. Or else it's just a big pyramid scheme :)	10:22
etank	ke4qqq: fp.o?	10:22
jensm	etank, fedoraproject.org	10:22
etank	thanks jensm	10:23
jensm	;)	10:23
spevack	#topic Interactions between Ambassadors and the rest of Fedora	10:23
... zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-classroom to: Interactions between Ambassadors and the rest of Fedora		10:23
spevack	I'd like to talk a little bit about this, and just share a few of my personal experiences	10:23
spevack	Since it was mentioned by kital, it's worth spending some time here.	10:24
alukin	.fas alukin	10:24
@zodbot	alukin: alukin 'Oleksiy Lukin' <lukin@stu.cn.ua>	10:24
spevack	Whenever I go to a Fedora event in my Ambassador role and talk to users or answer questions, here is what happens EVERY SINGLE TIME	10:24
spevack	* About 50% of the time, I know the answer to the question and I can show someone a link or send them away 100% happy RIGHT THEN.	10:25
spevack	* About 25% of the time, I have to write their question down, get their email address, and then send them the answer after I can find it myself.	10:25
alukin	Hi everybady! Today is eastern X-mas, so... Merry X-mas and Happy New Year!	10:25
spevack	* About 25% of the time, I have ZERO IDEA what the answer is, and I know that I'm going to need to talk to someone in a different part of Fedora in order to find out.	10:25
spevack	This last part is particularly important for Ambassadors, for two reasons:	10:26
spevack	Reason #1 -- It is OK to say "I don't know"	10:26
spevack	No one expects a Fedora Ambassador to be an expert about everything, all the time.	10:26
spevack	Reason #2 -- Fedora Ambassadors, as part of their job, need to *pay attention* to what is happening in different parts of the Fedora Project.	10:26
spevack	This way, you can always have a pretty general understanding of what is going on -- you can talk about the current release, you can talk about features that are in the next release, etc.	10:27
spevack	It's good to get to know other Fedora contributors in your region. If I'm at an event in Germany, for example, and someone has questions about packaging, I can point that person at Christoph Wickert and feel 100% confident that they will get the help they need.	10:27
spevack		10:27
tatica	(sidenote: we can't do everything, but we have a team that can)	10:28
spevack	Some Fedora Ambassadors are also very active in other parts of the project -- they are packagers, they are designers, they write documentation, etc.	10:28
alukin	IMHO it is importtant for ambassadors to be a some kind of bridge between users and developers?	10:29
biertie	spevack: +1	10:29
spevack		10:29
* spevack pauses for questions or comments, and to figure out from his notes what he wants to talk about next		10:29
biertie	it's important to know the people in the project, and in the region, so you can direct people to other people that are more experts on that theme	10:29
biertie	you have to learn to act as a team when you're at an event	10:30
... join!#fedora-classroom -> tux_addict(n=pikh@122.177.179.19)		10:30
ke4qqq	+1 - at a minimum at least subscribe to fedora-advisory-bard mailing list - and try and get involved in at least one other area of fedora	10:30
franciscod	and its important to ask questions, as many as you can.	10:30
ke4qqq	s/bard/board/	10:31
biertie	true, I know I still ask a lot of stupid questions :-)	10:31
franciscod	a lot of folks dont ask questions because they're sort of scared of getting *flamed*	10:31
slipp3d	franciscod, that was one of the hardest things for me to get over	10:31
tatica	maybe the best thing an ambassador can do is to be a bridge between developers/designers/packagers and new contributors	10:31
sspreitzer	i think you need to have a certain subset of social skills as an ambassador	10:31
franciscod	slipp3d: :D	10:31
franciscod	sspreitzer: +1	10:32
slipp3d	and some thick skin ...	10:32
sspreitzer	slipp3d, +1	10:32
* inode0 wonders if he is in the wrong place now that social skills are required		10:32
spevack	slipp3d: thick skin is required in all open source projects :)	10:32
cwtucker	LOL@inode0	10:32
* ke4qqq was thinking along the same lines as inode0		10:32
spevack	heh	10:32
spevack	#topic What should you be paying attention to within Fedora?	10:33
... zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-classroom to: What should you be paying attention to within Fedora?		10:33
spevack	Let's move on to this topic -- which will probably be a little bit shorter, but is worth mentioning. I'd like to involve some of our long-time Ambassadors in this topic as well.	10:33
alukin	My expirience shows that people need to know some person near them to ask questions and get answers so task of Ambassador to be the right person who can find answers	10:33
spevack	What are the things that you folks pay attention to, in order to keep up to speed with what's happening in Fedora, without it taking up your entire life	10:33
ke4qqq	irc, and mailing lists - specifically #fedora-meeting and #fedora-ambassadors (though there are lots of other valuable chans) and.....	10:34
ke4qqq	fedora-advisory-board and fedora-devel mailing lists are a nice place to start	10:34
franciscod	IRC, mailing lists, the planet, FWN	10:34
ke4qqq	+1 for the planet and FWN	10:35
spevack	#link http://planet.fedoraproject.org/	10:35
biertie	the planet: every morning	the mailing lists	talk to other people on irc	the wiki about specific things	10:35
spevack	#link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FWN	10:35
spevack	FWN == Fedora Weekly News	10:35
franciscod	and importantly , attending meets whenever possible, whether on the IRC or physically if time permits	10:35
spevack	#link http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-advisory-board	10:35
spevack	#link http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list	10:36
spevack	kital, tatica: anything you want to add?	10:36
kital	yes	10:36
franciscod	#link https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-india  ;)	10:36
tatica	yes	10:36
spevack	go ahead :)	10:36
alukin	I'd like to point to sites like http://fedorasolved.org - it is very important to quicky find solution with quicky moving distro like Fedora	10:36
kital	knowing the infrastructure that we use for communication and colaboration is imperative	10:37
franciscod	alukin: +1	10:37
ke4qqq	alukin: some of that is 'forbidden content'	10:37
slipp3d	+1 for fedorasolved.org	10:37
tatica	my personal experience is a little hard in this way. A lot of people come to me asking me a lot of stuff that most of the time I dont have a clue	10:37
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loupgaroublond	i would add that following the docs and marketing lists are good too, keep up with drafts of release notes and publicly facing material	10:37
tatica	a lot of new fedorians just need someone to hold their hands and help them to work	10:37
loupgaroublond	if you can see where the buzz is going to be, you know what to research so you can talk more about it	10:37
alukin	The point is: not all things can be officially discussed on Fedora site, I mean proprietary drivers and so on...	10:37
franciscod	ke4qqq: forbidden? please elaborate a little?	10:38
tatica	a good advice is to "let them think they are doing the things by their own" we are not gods to make everything for them	10:38
tatica	we are only a support	10:38
biertie	tatica: +1	10:38
kital	so in my opinion every Ambassador should have something that could explain how we colaborate	10:38
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franciscod	+1 tatica	10:38
tatica	so we need to pay attention to this:	10:38
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tatica	if we want great and active ambassadors, don't let them be lazy doing their task...	10:38
derikonto	+1 kital	10:38
kital	in my case it is a bit out of date ;) but maybe a good start for creating his own	10:38
kital	http://jsimon.fedorapeople.org/fedora_comm.pdf	10:39
tatica	we all have compromises, and the other ambassadors has to, help them to help you but don't do their work	10:39
spevack	franciscod: come back to that question later on and we'll answer it -- i don't want to get side-tracked	10:39
spevack	kital: would you tell folks about what that pdf you just linked to is?	10:39
spevack	#link http://jsimon.fedorapeople.org/fedora_comm.pdf	10:39
franciscod	spevack: aye	10:39
alukin	ke4qqq, it id "forbidden" only in USA but Ok in EU	10:39
ke4qqq	alukin: yes - and as an ambassador you represent the distribution - which can't include them - it's important to know why we can't.	10:39
kital	spevack: something that could explain how we colaborate	10:39
franciscod	i found this quite a long time back	10:39
franciscod	#link http://ankursinha.fedorapeople.org/misc/community.odp	10:39
ke4qqq	alukin: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ForbiddenItems	10:39
franciscod	probably very outdated	10:40
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ke4qqq	https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Conduct <-- first point is important - you are Fedora	10:40
frankiemangoa	i agree some of these are realy outdated...have t be revised asap	10:40
kital	spevack: but also a bit outdated and made for my purpose (german ...)	10:40
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alukin	ke4qqq, sure I know that and I know why but the world is a bit bigger then USA :)	10:40
franciscod	ke4qqq: understood, we use fedorasolved as a quick help at #fedora	10:40
spevack	franciscod: that's an old presentation that I wrote, about 2 years ago	10:40
franciscod	spevack: i found it somewhere, still show it around to folks :D	10:41
spevack	franciscod: a lot of its ideas still apply, but the examples are a bit old.	10:41
spevack	franciscod: i'm glad it's been useful	10:41
spevack	Ok, to sum up this section a little bit and get us back on track:	10:41
spevack	There are obviously a TON of resources for Fedora Ambassadors	10:41
spevack	And we've linked to a lot of them here.	10:41
spevack	I want to take a moment though, to talk about the Fedora Marketing team a little bit.	10:42
spevack	Because there is a good overlap between Fedora Marketing and Fedora Ambassadors	10:42
spevack	#link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing	10:42
spevack	#link http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list	10:42
spevack	Earlier on in this session, someone made the excellent point that it is difficul to have a consistent message across different regions and languages worldwide.	10:43
spevack	This is 100% true.	10:43
spevack	Therefore, one of the things that we try to do in Fedora is to provide a *starting point* for people to have the right ideas and messages that we want to spread, and then allow folks to build their own talks around this core set of ideas.	10:43
spevack	Where do these core ideas come from? The Fedora Marketing team.	10:44
spevack	There are two links that I would like people to see:	10:44
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spevack	actually, three links :)	10:44
spevack	#link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Foundations	10:44
spevack	This is the four foundations of the Fedora Project. For the last year or so, whenever I have given the "general what is Fedora about/introduction to Fedora" talk at an event, I have always made a point of talking about the four foundations.	10:45
spevack	These are pretty general	10:45
spevack	But we also have more specific resources for folks.	10:45
spevack	#link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/TalkingPoints	10:46
spevack	#link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_12_Talking_Points	10:46
spevack	The last link, in particular, I'd like to mention.	10:46
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spevack	Every single release, the Fedora Marketing Team produces a list of "talking points" about the new release.	10:46
spevack	These are INCREDIBLY VALUABLE.	10:46
spevack	Back when I was the Fedora Project Leader -- and I know that Paul Frields is the same way as the current Fedora Project Leader -- a list like this helps a ton when we are doing interviews with the press about the new release.	10:47
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spevack	And it can help every single Fedora Ambassador	10:47
spevack	to talk about some of the most interesting stuff in the release.	10:47
... leave!#fedora-classroom -> FOSSmaniac("Leaving")		10:47
etank	do you recommend that ambassadors run rawhide at some point before the new releases to have a better idea of what to come? if so how soon before the actual release is recommended.	10:47
spevack	You can see that we try to break it down into three categories -- things that everyone will like, things that sysadmins will like, and things that developers will like.	10:47
spevack	Because those tend to be our three main user buckets.	10:47
spevack	etank: good question. What do people think?	10:48
spevack	first of all -- can someone please tell everyone what Rawhide is? :)	10:48
cwtucker	development	10:48
threethirty	do it in Virtual Box make life easy on yourself etank	10:48
frankiemangoa	you have to keep updated...always..but closer to relaease....say a month or so	10:48
etank	threethirty: that was my thought too	10:48
ke4qqq	etank: I generally start at the alpha - it's also helpful to help during test days with QA - it's genreally low hanging fruit - I run LiveCDs til Beta -and install at beta	10:48
franciscod	rawhide is the latest stuff that the package maintainers push to the public	10:48
biertie	I think it's a matter of opinion, I don't run rawhide before the beta release, but if you run rawhide you have responsibilities like: reporting bugs, and having to deal with problem sometimes	10:49
franciscod	note, that latest does *not* imply stable	10:49
spevack	#link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Rawhide	10:49
biertie	and problem can be annoying when you are running rawhide on a computer you don't want to break:P	10:49
cwtucker	It is 'fairly' stable on my macbook :)	10:49
spevack	that's why running it in a virtual instance can be so useful, biertie	10:50
biertie	hehe, touché	10:50
franciscod	cwtucker: you've been lucky then :P rawhide is known to be "explosive"	10:50
cwtucker	franciscod, can be..	10:50
spevack	etank: I think it's useful to have some knowledge of what is going on in Rawhide.	10:50
biertie	anyway, I don't think you HAVE to do it, but it can help you when you have to talk about a new release: you know what's in it	10:50
spevack	In the early part of a release cycle, maybe that is just knowing what the upcoming features are.	10:51
spevack	As we get closer to the alpha and beta -- I think that it's a good idea to actually have Rawhide running *somewhere*.	10:51
* franciscod uses beta and updates it to stable once the release package is updated		10:51
spevack	Especially at an event -- I think it's nice to be able to show someone "here is the current version of Fedora" and "here is the development version that will become the next release."	10:51
spevack	it gives an Ambassador a chance to explain a bit about how Fedora's releases work, etc.	10:52
derikonto	+1 spevack	10:52
spevack		10:52
etank	that was my thought too spevack	10:52
spevack	One of the things that I always try to do, whenever I have a conversation about Fedora with someone new -- is to ask a lot of questions, and try to figure out what that person cares the most about.	10:52
spevack	Then I will talk to that person about whatever part of the Fedora Project is also working on the same thing.	10:52
spevack	And try to help the person to see that there are a bunch of people RIGHT NOW working as a team on the sorts of things that this person cares about, and it's easy to go and help them.	10:53
spevack		10:53
spevack		10:53
spevack	Ok -- any other questions or comments right now?	10:53
* spevack pauses for a moment to rest his fingers		10:54
frankiemangoa	yeah	10:54
derikonto	can I suggest a link about marketing ?	10:54
spevack	go for it	10:54
derikonto	#link http://blog.melchua.com/2009/12/24/whats-marketing-doing-for-f13-anyway-a-show-with-dancing-penguins/	10:54
* fugolini needs to go. Thank you for this amazing lecture. I'll be glad to read the log of what will come next. Thank you Max for this wonderfull job!		10:54
frankiemangoa	I think it is good for us then to advice pple to run that rawhide on virtual machine...	10:54
spevack	fugolini: see you soon!	10:55
... signoff!#fedora-classroom -> fugolini(Remote closed the connection)		10:55
spevack		10:55
spevack	#topic Regional structure of Fedora Ambassadors	10:55
... zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-classroom to: Regional structure of Fedora Ambassadors		10:55
spevack	We have about 30 minutes left	10:56
spevack	And I think it's time to talk for a bit about how a project as large and spread out as Fedora Ambassadors actually works.	10:56
* sspreitzer needs to liftoff in 30 mins, plane boarding		10:56
spevack	And the honest answer is that there is a little bit of chaos -- but we try to make sure that the chaos is organized, and regional :)	10:56
spevack	The fedora-ambassadors-list is the global list for all Ambassadors	10:57
... signoff!#fedora-classroom -> mohits("Leaving.")		10:57
spevack	But we have regional meetings, where the Ambassadors from the same general area are able to discuss their local issues, organize their activities, and pool their resources.	10:57
* spevack goes to paste some links.		10:58
spevack	ke4qqq, inode0, kital, tatica -- you guys can jump in with any comments that you have	10:58
spevack	#link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Meetings	10:58
... signoff!#fedora-classroom -> sanju("Leaving")		10:59
MohammedSafwat	Can I jump in with anything I have?	10:59
spevack	sure	10:59
MohammedSafwat	OK, just go on, I do not want to interrupt :)	10:59
spevack	The key point I want to make is that it is *ESSENTIAL* that you attend the meeting for your region, because that is where almost all of the decisions are made.	10:59
spevack	The Fedora Ambassadors Steering Committee is sort of the oversight group of Ambassadors -- but they don't tell folks what events to go to, or how to spend their budget. Mostly we try to give complete decision making to the regions -- and most of that work is done in the local meetings.	11:00
spevack	Anyone -- feel free to jump in with what you want to say.	11:00
spevack	MohammedSafwat: go ahead	11:00
... join!#fedora-classroom -> mohammed(n=mohammed@41.129.28.232)		11:01
franciscod	we're trying to hold fortnightly meets at #fedora-india, been on schedule so far. the attendance has been steadily increasing :)	11:01
... nick!mohammed -> Guest12712		11:01
spevack	franciscod: where are those meetings being advertised?	11:02
tatica	LATAM... latam... Latam is starting to grow up. Is not a secret to anyone that Brasil is the point of attention at this moment and maybe since ever. Our goal is to be more involved into everything	11:02
franciscod	spevack: generally the fedora-india mailing list	11:02
... nick!Guest12712 -> MohamedSafwat		11:02
franciscod	and blog posts	11:02
spevack	franciscod: and if someone is a New Ambassador -- and only on fedora-ambassadors-list, how will then find out that the fedora-india list even exists? :)	11:02
tatica	Latam is working hard, but some people are pushing too hard the local efforts that some of us are putting down... so	11:03
biertie	spevack: I can add to that: next to the emea meeting, some groups hold extra meetings too (like we have a belux meeting)	11:03
inode0	mentoring process I hope	11:03
tatica	little patience and goals are showing up... just like the examples of gomix with rpmdev. yn1v with freemedia and marketing	11:03
tatica	myself having artwork in the official release	11:03
franciscod	spevack: the new method involves mentorship, generally people of the same region, they make sure their "students" are around :)	11:03
etank	how do the mentors work with the new ambassadors?	11:03
spevack	franciscod: cool :)	11:03
franciscod	but i will post to the ambassadors list in the future, to be on the safer side	11:04
spevack	kital: do you want to talk a little bit about Mentoring?	11:04
etank	what is the expectation on both sides	11:04
tatica	I don't know what else to add since I work directly with contributors and ambassadors and not with organize items of latam	11:04
tatica	yn1v, would you like to add something else from your point of view ?	11:04
spevack	Any of our current Ambassadors want to talk about what Mentoring is like within the Ambassadors Project?	11:04
* spevack attempts to crowd-source this part of the classroom :)		11:05
* tatica want to add something to what mentoring should be		11:05
frankiemangoa	i think he proces is ok.	11:05
frankiemangoa	had a good one by nayyar ahmed	11:05
cmpahar	when you are an Ambassador you have a mentor. One lucky guy who is always there to help you and show the direction	11:05
spevack	how do you get your mentor?	11:06
biertie	for me a mentor is somebody that cares about you, but off course, you have to gaint that respect	11:06
... join!#fedora-classroom -> simonzz(n=simonzz@dslb-084-060-098-031.pools.arcor-ip.net)		11:06
ke4qqq	pick it from a list on the wiki from your region	11:06
kital	spevack was away	11:06
derikonto	Mentoring is a good way to become a good ambassador	11:06
yn1v	I think one of the new abassadors duties is to read a lot on the fedora wiki. Then you bump into many usefull things...	11:06
threethirty	spevack: i chose ke4qqq becuase we have a mutual buddy	11:06
biertie	I know I had a good mentor:: I asked him stuff, he helped me when I had troubles	11:06
kital	find the mentoring process here	11:06
kital	https://fedorahosted.org/fama/wiki/mentoring	11:06
biertie	he sugested things,	11:06
yn1v	like mailing list, but also features, work in progress	11:06
spevack	#link https://fedorahosted.org/fama/wiki/mentoring	11:06
biertie	but it's not a guy had holds your hand off course	11:07
inode0	spevack: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Join <- listed where when up	11:07
* franciscod heads out to dinner, mess closing, cya folks, good night		11:07
spevack	thanks for coming, franciscod	11:08
spevack	#topic What else?	11:08
tatica	franciscod, :)	11:08
tatica	!	11:08
* inode0 will comment a little about mentoring		11:08
kital	mentoring helped to gave new candidates a person to start with direct communication if no relationship to the project exists	11:08
spevack	Ok -- for the folks who are long-time ambassadors -- what have I missed? What else should we talk to the new ambassadors about?	11:08
spevack	inode0: go ahead!	11:08
sspreitzer	!	11:08
inode0	from the perspective of Fedora the mentoring process has a bit different purpose, easily stated I think	11:09
sspreitzer	reimbursements	11:09
sspreitzer	explain this topic plz to the crowd	11:09
inode0	make sure we get good representatives of the Fedora Project	11:09
tatica	would be a good idea o get *ideas* of what are we doing ok and what should we change from new ambassadors? a feedback of what they see as new members that sometimes we forget for having too much responsibilities?	11:09
... signoff!#fedora-classroom -> zodbot(Nick collision from services.)		11:09
inode0	I don't want to necessary make a life long commitment to each person I mentor	11:10
* sspreitzer needs to pack things in 10 mins		11:10
inode0	But I do make a commitment to Fedora to try my best to help that person be prepared to represent us	11:10
tatica	a mentor should just follow the new ambassador work until he can do it alone	11:10
biertie	inode0: lolz, well, it should be a pro-active roll, I think	11:10
tatica	mentor is a support	11:11
kital	sspreitzer: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Reimbursements	11:11
kital	ticket is imperative https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/	11:11
ke4qqq	spevack: talk about getting $stuff	11:11
spevack	ke4qqq: you want to do it? :)	11:12
sspreitzer	kital, where are the limits? will I be payed if I book a cheap airfare and hotel room ?	11:12
etank	kital: the first link Reimbursements seems to not be working	11:12
spevack	#topic Money!	11:12
* ke4qqq is afraid my regional bias limits my usefulness - I have no idea how it works outside of emea and na		11:12
spevack	A few words about budget	11:12
... leave!#fedora-classroom -> simonzz()		11:13
* etank needs to contact his mentor		11:13
kital	sspreitzer: bring your desire to famsco (ticket) and famsco will see if the benefit for fedora is good to help you out with something and if we have the money we will help you	11:13
* tatica doesn't want to talk about money		11:13
ke4qqq	tatica: why not?	11:13
kital	this is different from case to case - depends on the expected benefit	11:13
kital	for fedora	11:13
spevack	I am part of Red Hat's Community Architecture team -- and one of the things that my team has budget for is regional community building around the world.	11:13
kital	or for the contributor	11:13
spevack	A lot of this money is spent within the Fedora Ambassadors project.	11:14
tatica	not now, not here	11:14
kital	it is also good to sponsor a trip if this helps people to evolve personaly	11:14
spevack	Mostly we spend it to help contributors either get to events, to have the resources they need to set up an event, etc.	11:14
sspreitzer	kital, it is just an example. if i visit fosdem or cebit or openexpo? do i get a return or do I have to rethink 5 times whether I should play with money?	11:15
spevack	We often subsidize travel for community members, and we make lots of swag to give away at Fedora events -- stickers, shirts, etc.	11:15
tatica	question:	11:15
tatica	for latam... every budget request must pass for Rodrigo and his boss?	11:15
kital	you definitely should be aware that we are not a trave funding agency ;)	11:15
spevack	sspreitzer: for big events, we often will have a "travel sponsorship" budget and people who need either a partial or a full sponsorship can get it.	11:15
... join!#fedora-classroom -> zodbot(n=supybot@fedora/bot/zodbot)		11:16
sspreitzer	wow ok	11:16
spevack	but kital is right -- it is IMPOSSIBLE for us to pay the travel costs of everyone who wants to attend FOSDEM, for example	11:16
spevack	we'd have no money left.	11:16
spevack	sspreitzer: there is no 100% firm rule -- simply because we need to have flexibility.	11:16
kital	so fosdem is a major event and also a meet up and it make sence to get as much people together as we can to meet and plan for 2010	11:16
kital	but it would not make sence to make this for every event	11:17
biertie	kital: +1	11:17
spevack	but my personal belief is that Ambassadors are already giving us lots of their time and effort -- and I don't want them to have to spend lots of their own money also. We have a budget, and we should use it to help grow the project.	11:17
ke4qqq	in FAMNA we try and pay for speakers who are traveling, if they request it, but not every person who attends an event on our behalf - but there are exceptions.	11:17
sspreitzer	spevack, im not satisfied by this answer. there should be a commitment.	11:17
tatica	:X	11:17
kital	so as told before - it depends from case to case and it is imperative to communicate and point out why it is important for you to do things and also imperative if you get sponsoring to make proper eventreports and tell us what achievements we had	11:18
spevack	sspreitzer: ok -- we'll talk about it more outside of this classroom session, and I'll try to make some more firm guidelines.	11:18
sspreitzer	basically its up to my risk, and its RHs revenue. sry, this is no good world.	11:18
spevack	tatica: we can talk about regional budget issues outside of this classroom session also -- perfect for a famsco meeting :)	11:18
ke4qqq	sspreitzer: so submit your proposal to the regional leaders in EMEA - see if they want to fund you.	11:18
... signoff!#fedora-classroom -> rosset(Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))		11:18
... signoff!#fedora-classroom -> MohammedSafwat(Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))		11:19
spevack	sspreitzer: typically someone will come to their regional meeting and say "hey, I have a budget request for $X and here's what we're going to do with it" and then we try to make it happen.	11:19
spevack	And if that budget request includes travel, so be it.	11:19
spevack	We would never make somene spend money first, and then *maybe* get a reimbursement or maybe not.	11:19
spevack	zodbot seems to be dead, along with the Fedora wiki :)	11:19
biertie	problems witht he load balancer :(	11:20
sspreitzer	ok, spevack we will have to qry this later	11:20
cwtucker	wiki is running rawhide today :)	11:20
sspreitzer	i need to board my plane now, see you guys	11:20
* spevack is learning from this part of the meeting that famsco needs to make its pages that deal with all things around budget process better		11:20
threethirty	later on sspreitzer	11:20
sspreitzer	;>	11:20
spevack	ok -- we've got about 10 minutes left in this classroom. Any other questions or comments or anything people want to say?	11:20
ke4qqq	spevack: +1 I am convinced some of the date back to 2006	11:21
frankiemangoa	thanks guys...am also out..will review the logs later..learnt a lot.	11:21
spevack	ke4qqq: that's bad.	11:21
ke4qqq	yep	11:21
* tatica just waiting for famsco meeting		11:21
... signoff!#fedora-classroom -> sspreitzer("Verlassend")		11:21
spevack	Ok -- well in conclusion, I want to say Welcome again to all of our new Ambassadors	11:21
... signoff!#fedora-classroom -> constanton(Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))		11:21
... leave!#fedora-classroom -> frankiemangoa()		11:22
spevack	The best thing you guys can do is ask lots of questions, and don't be afraid to make mistakes.	11:22
... join!#fedora-classroom -> mohammed(n=mohammed@41.129.32.53)		11:22
spevack	Nothing bad will happen!	11:22
tatica	I can bite you all	11:22
tatica	:D	11:22
threethirty	thanks for this spevack it was super helpful	11:22
spevack	And remember -- your mission is to help make people excited about Fedora.	11:22
biertie	no you can't tatica	11:22
... nick!mohammed -> Guest31885		11:22
tatica	lol	11:22
etank	thanks for the insight spevack. fantastic class	11:22
spevack	It's fun, and rewarding. You are the folks helping to grow our community every day.	11:22
tatica	have fun being ambassadors, and make everyone else feel the same	11:22
slipp3d	thanks spevack ... i picked up a few things that i didn't know	11:22
spevack	We'll do it again in a month or two, I'm sure.	11:22
spevack	Have a good day or night, everyone, depending on where you are in the world!	11:23
spevack	#endmeeting	11:23
* hiemanshu missed the class, anyone being kind enough to post a log for me please?		11:23
cmpahar	thank you very much Max. It was a wonderful and very mentoring class	11:23
biertie	has anyone logged the session?	11:23
yn1v	tatica, should we review this log and make one ambassadors classroom in Spanish ?	11:23
* ke4qqq thinks spevack should put this into a presentation we can push to new mentees as well :)		11:23

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