QA/Meetings/20100201

Attendees

People present (lines said)

Regrets:

• User:liam
• User:rhe

Agenda

• Proposed meeting agenda
• [FIXME meetbot summary]

Previous meeting follow-up

1. jlaska to add bugzilla shared query links to Common_Bugs wiki page
   • beland added links to Common_F13_bugs page
2. wwoods and kparal to talk about design ideas
3. adamw update on security policy
   • Sent to devel@f.fp.org list for review from a wider audience (see http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2010-January/129978.html)

Release validation wiki updates

rhe and awilliam coordinated to improve the wiki presence of several release validation efforts, including installation test and desktop sanity test. For details, see QA/Join#Release_validation.

Test Day Planning

Just a general check-in on test day planning efforts. Who has what?

Rawhide Acceptance Testing

Last week, 2010-01-28 was the second pre-Alpha rawhide acceptance test milestone. Jkeating and dlehman coordinated to do a second compose (see rel-eng ticket#3292). Install images were built and posted on alt.fedoraproject.org. Since AutoQA doesn't yet monitor this location for new install images, tests were initiated manually.

Test Summary:

• Automated rats_install PASS (note bug#559597 prevents initramfs creation)
• AutoQA updates supports split URL compose now (using stage2= and repo=)
• Results available at Test_Results:Fedora_13_Rawhide_Acceptance_Test_2.

Next Steps:

• Fix AutoQA post-tree-compose hook to monitor for RAT droppings (see ticket#115)
• 2010-02-04 test run

AutoQA project update

Deps/conflicts prevention

• Milestone - https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/milestone/autoqa%20depcheck
• Owner - User:wwoods

Last week

• bodhi code required for the post-bodhi-update hook is now in bodhi (thanks lmacken)
• wwoods working with skvidal and other rpm hackers to try and solve the depcheck problem
• wwoods looking for help in doing the post-bodhi-update hook
• kparal has code for generating fake RPMs for testing in git as rpmguard_test.py

This week

rpmguard and autoqa results collection

• Milestone - https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/milestone/Package%20update%20tests
• Owner - User:kparal

Last week

• Address ticket#114
• Kparal interested in developing design goals for results db

This week

install automation

• Milestone - https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/milestone/Automate%20installation%20test%20plan
• Owner - User:lili, User:rhe

Last week

• Liam announced a DVD install test case to autoqa-devel list (see https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/autoqa-devel/2010-January/000178.html)
• Continue test development

This week

packaging/deployment

• Milestone - https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/milestone/Packaging%20and%20Review
• Owner - User:jlaska

Last week

• Process akurtakov's feedback and remove all uncertain JAR files from the list (see User:Jlaska/gwt#Status_uncertain).

This week

• Seek guidance from upstream GWT for ...
  1. Cases where multiple versions of a JAR are bundled
  2. Need for remaining bundled JARs? (see User:Jlaska/gwt#Status_uncertain)
  3. Begin packaging JPackage JAR files for Fedora

Current status on packaging:

• gwt-* - Still scoping out packaging needs (see User:Jlaska/gwt)
• autoqa - packaged (see autoqa-0.3-2.fc12.src.rpm), will submit once autotest-client is accepted
• autotest-client - undergoing review - RHBZ #548522
• autotest - packaged (see autotest-0.11.0-4.el5.src.rpm, will submit for review after gwt* accepted

Upcoming QA events

• 2010-01-21 - Pre-Alpha Rawhide Acceptance Test Plan #1
• 2010-01-28 - Pre-Alpha Rawhide Acceptance Test Plan #2
• 2010-02-04 - Pre-Alpha Rawhide Acceptance Test Plan #3
• 2010-02-04 - NFSv4 Test Day
• 2010-02-05 - Alpha Blocker Meeting (F13Alpha) #1
• 2010-02-11 - Test Alpha 'Test Compose' (boot media testing)
• 2010-02-12 - Alpha Blocker Meeting (F13Alpha) #2

Action items

1. <insert items here>

IRC transcript

jlaska	#startmeeting Fedora QA Meeting	16:01
zodbot	Meeting started Mon Feb 1 16:01:41 2010 UTC. The chair is jlaska. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.	16:01
jlaska	#meetingname qa	16:01
zodbot	Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.	16:01
zodbot	The meeting name has been set to 'qa'	16:01
jlaska	#topic Gathering	16:01
adamw	yo	16:02
jlaska	adamw: happy monday :)	16:02
jlaska	who else can we convince to join us for a meeting?	16:03
* kparal convinced		16:03
adamw	yeah, yeah, keep it short, whatever, i have important cellphone hacking to do :P	16:03
jlaska	I can see that! :P	16:03
jlaska	adamw: you must join the meeting using one of those phones	16:03
kparal	adamw: you are a blogging superman :)	16:03
* maxamillion is here		16:04
adamw	jlaska: gimme 2 minutes and i will	16:04
jlaska	hi kparal, maxamillion	16:04
jlaska	adamw: uh oh ... that wasn't meant as a dare :)	16:04
jlaska	who else we have? wwoods Viking-Ice tk009 ?	16:05
jlaska	alright, let's get started and hopefully they can join in	16:06
jlaska	#topic previous meeting follow-up	16:06
jlaska	#info jlaska to add bugzilla shared query links to Common_Bugs wiki page	16:06
jlaska	#info beland added the links to the F-13 page already ... https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common_F13_bugs	16:07
jlaska	The only other thing that occured to me was perhaps updating our IRC RSS feeds that zodbot tracks	16:08
* nirik can do that later today if you let me know what to change it to/etc.		16:08
jlaska	I'll take an action item to grab the blocker bug RSS feeds and see if nirik can update zodbot to watch those links	16:08
jlaska	nirik: thanks!	16:09
nirik	no problem.	16:09
jlaska	#action request zodbot tracking for updated F-13 QA RSS feeds (blocker bugs, common_bugs? etc...)	16:09
* adamw now meetingggggg on his phone :)		16:09
nirik	I noticed the other day it spewed something about the f12 blockers... meant to look at it.	16:09
jlaska	nirik: we can probably replace the F-13 ones with the new feeds?	16:09
jlaska	adamw: you're nuts :)	16:10
jlaska	okay, next up I have ...	16:10
adamw	Pic available if proof desired!	16:10
jlaska	#info wwoods and kparal to talk about design ideas	16:10
nirik	f12 you mean? yeah. I think currently it's announcing any change to the f12 blocker	16:10
jlaska	I think this came out of the AutoQA discussion last week	16:10
jlaska	nirik: yeah, sorry ... replace the F-12 ones with the newer F-13 feeds	16:10
jlaska	kparal: wwoods: do you have insight as to what was being tracked by this action item?	16:11
kparal	jlaska: I believe it meant we should have consulted the future results database design?	16:11
kparal	jlaska: which we didn't :/	16:12
adamw	http://www.happyassassin.net/extras/irc_meeting.jpg	16:12
kparal	adamw: nice!	16:13
jlaska	kparal: ah right ... hmm, what are your thoughts there. what is needed to do a good design review on that?	16:13
jlaska	adamw: that's cute :)	16:13
maxamillion	adamw: what irc client is that?	16:13
jlaska	adamw: normally, I'd say this would impact your words/minute. But I don't think it will :)	16:13
adamw	maxamillion: andchat	16:14
maxamillion	adamw: interesting ... I'll have to check it out	16:14
maxamillion	:)	16:14
adamw	jlaska: i'm cheating, i'm typing on my pc now :P	16:14
wwoods	jlaska: yeah we were going to talk about design ideas for the results database	16:14
kparal	jlaska: I believe several should get involved, so we don't make any oversights right in the design. maybe some people that already designed some koji parts could help us	16:14
adamw	maxamillion: it vibrates for nick alerts - stop buzzing my knee :D	16:14
maxamillion	adamw: when did you get an android device?	16:14
maxamillion	LOL	16:14
kparal	*several people	16:14
adamw	maxamillion: > #fedora-qa let's not derail	16:14
maxamillion	rgr, sorry	16:14
jlaska	kparal: re: koji ... do you mean like lmacken?	16:16
jlaska	perhaps a micro-FAD would be helpful to get the right folks involved	16:16
kparal	jlaska: I don't know about lmacken, for e.g. dmach hinted me to look at his kobo library several times. https://fedorahosted.org/kobo/	16:17
jlaska	kparal: aah right	16:17
wwoods	ugh	16:17
wwoods	xmlrpc with cookies? krb5?	16:17
kparal	jlaska: it might be some inspiration for us, I think there is a hub part that store results	16:17
jlaska	kparal: probably a good idea for us to outline what our needs are first?	16:17
Oxf13	kobo looked waaaay to overengineered for the stuff I needed	16:18
wwoods	kobo is a great idea for building RHEL-internal apps	16:18
kparal	I haven't studied it yet	16:18
wwoods	but very poorly suited to fedora needs	16:18
kparal	just looking for places where we can gather some ideas about the results DB	16:18
skvidal	ugh	16:19
wwoods	yeah it's still worth looking at other things that are around	16:19
kparal	jlaska: yes, we should brainstorm about the needs first	16:19
skvidal	b/c we need ANOTHER implemention of rpm header parsing	16:19
wwoods	but there's no reason the results db needs to be able to parse RPM headers	16:19
kparal	don't dump it everyone, we can have a look at some specific parts, not use everything at once :)	16:20
wwoods	honestly there's no reason it needs to be anything more than, say, a TG app, as far as I can see	16:20
wwoods	but that's still a very very broad canvas for design	16:20
jlaska	in the interest of time ... is there a next step to keep track of here?	16:20
kparal	wwoods already has some expertiese with irb frontend, so I suppose he will be the leader in this area :)	16:20
wwoods	I'd suggest we should outline some requirements and goals before we start looking at tools/implementations	16:21
jlaska	that seems sensible	16:21
kparal	the next step should be the brainstorming meeting for those of us concerned I think	16:21
wwoods	kparal: agreed	16:21
kparal	we just must not forget about it :)	16:21
jlaska	would you like me to organize a gobby meeting this week to review?	16:22
kparal	sounds good for me	16:22
wwoods	sure	16:22
jlaska	#action jlaska to organize a gobby meeting to begin requirements/goal definition for a results db	16:22
jlaska	alright ... last follow-up item ...	16:23
jlaska	#info adamw update on security policy	16:23
jlaska	The info I have is Adam moved the discussion from test@l.fp.org to devel@l.fp.org (http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2010-January/129978.html)	16:24
jlaska	adamw: any other updates?	16:24
adamw	sorry!	16:24
adamw	nope, that's it - i did that before the weekend so haven't read the responses yet	16:25
jlaska	adamw: no TXT'ing while MTG :)	16:25
adamw	i intend to follow the same process i did for test list	16:25
jlaska	okay, should we keep this on the radar for next week?	16:25
adamw	do a new draft from the current responses, then send that, keep cycling until no-one has anything to complain about :)	16:25
adamw	sure	16:25
jlaska	#info adamw will continue monitoring feedback (http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2010-January/129978.html) and propose updated drafts as needed	16:26
jlaska	alright, let's dive in ...	16:26
jlaska	#topic Release validation wiki updates	16:26
jlaska	adamw: I've got you on the spot for this as well, can you cover for rhe?	16:26
jlaska	Just wanted to give a quick update on the wiki changes you and rhe have been working on	16:26
adamw	yup	16:27
adamw	so far we've added the installation validation testing wiki page:	16:27
adamw	#link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Installation_validation_testing	16:27
adamw	a desktop validation testing wiki page, which is still full of duct tape:	16:27
adamw	https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Desktop_validation_testing	16:27
adamw	and modified the QA/Join page to mention this testing:	16:27
jlaska	heh, the many uses of duct tape :)	16:28
adamw	https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Join#Release_validation	16:28
jlaska	adamw: I wanted to ask, would you like to have the QA schedule changed to reference 'release validation' and not specifically 'install validation' so there is room for other efforts?	16:29
jlaska	okay, we can come back to that if needed, lemme keep on going	16:31
jlaska	nice wiki updates rhe and adamw :)	16:31
adamw	jlaska: i think that would be a good change	16:31
jlaska	adamw: okay, I'll ping get in touch with poelcat later this week then	16:31
jlaska	#action jlaska to discuss updating QA schedule with poelstra to reflect new 'release validation' focus	16:32
adamw	there will be other types of validation we could do in future; there's already a couple of criteria we can test that don't really come under installation or desktop	16:32
jlaska	I'd love to get off my butt and do the QA release checklist	16:32
jlaska	to include in that mix	16:32
jlaska	adamw: anything else on the wiki front?	16:33
adamw	um, nothing springs to mind	16:33
adamw	was that a leading question? :)	16:33
adamw	i didn't get around to updating commonbugs yet :(	16:33
jlaska	no, not a leading question	16:34
jlaska	alright, moving on to another quick update ...	16:34
jlaska	#topic Rawhide Acceptance Testing	16:34
jlaska	we had another RATS drop last Thursday	16:34
jlaska	jkeating composed a tree for rats_install (see rell-eng ticket#3292).	16:35
jlaska	I had to correct a few typos with the rats_install patches designed to support providing stage2= and repo= ... but all-in-all it worked well	16:35
jlaska	#link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Fedora_13_Rawhide_Acceptance_Test_2	16:35
Oxf13	did it pass?	16:35
jlaska	Oxf13: well it passed, but there's a _but_	16:36
jlaska	bug#559597 prevents initramfs creation ... so it won't boot without that fixed	16:36
Oxf13	oh right	16:36
jlaska	so one dracut-004-5 lands, we should be good	16:36
Oxf13	but you can use the images with a later rawhide tree	16:36
jlaska	at least for the automated portion of rats_install	16:37
jlaska	Oxf13: right, the packages from a newer rawhide	16:37
jlaska	I don't think we need to update the install images for this, right?	16:37
jlaska	Oxf13: so how would you like to proceed ... want a ticket to update the 'last known good' ?	16:38
Oxf13	jlaska: we probably shouldn't do that until the package tree has the right dracut level and we verify that	16:38
jlaska	Oxf13: oh agreed	16:38
Oxf13	this does bring up a good question though	16:38
Oxf13	does "last known good" mean a set of images, a set of packages, or the combination of the two?	16:38
jlaska	#info Oxf13 asked ... does "last known good" mean a set of images, a set of packages, or the combination of the two?	16:39
jlaska	from a testing perspective ... it means images + packages	16:39
jlaska	as soon as one changes, I think that adds a caveat to the 'last known good'	16:39
Oxf13	I suppose for users it's useful to have images which we expect to work, which can be tested against package sets which we're not sure of	16:39
Oxf13	all releng would be tracking and providing symlinks to is the set of images	16:40
jlaska	Oxf13: true, so this is intended to increase install reliability ... but is still open to rawhide package churn	16:40
adamw	i think it's as simple as putting a rawhide date on the 'last known good' listing	16:40
adamw	and a note that says it was known to work with that day's packages	16:41
adamw	may work with other days, but we can't say for sure	16:41
jlaska	agreed, I think we just need some wording around this so it's clear	16:41
* poelcat thought LKG was a fully installable source, including images so people did not have to go all the way back to F12 for a reliable starting place		16:42
jlaska	think it's time to get some documentation down for this	16:42
jlaska	any volunteers :)	16:42
adamw	i can do it if you let me know roughly what's needed	16:43
jlaska	adamw: given the questions here, I think defining what 'last known good' means	16:43
jlaska	it's a term we use a lot, but sounds like there is still some confusion around what's included	16:44
Oxf13	part of that was just working through the mechanics of actually doing it	16:45
jlaska	true true	16:45
Oxf13	it's far easier to store a small set of images, and then reference an existing tree of packages somewhere	16:45
Oxf13	or let the images autopick the latest rawhide for more fun	16:45
adamw	i think this is a case where we should do the mechanics and then i will write an explanation which sounds like we knew what we were doing all along =)	16:45
jlaska	okay, in that case I think we're probably done then	16:46
jlaska	Oxf13: are there other changes coming on the rel-eng side of building these?	16:46
Oxf13	um...	16:46
Oxf13	how do you mean?	16:46
jlaska	how do we know when we're done with providing 'last known good'?	16:47
jlaska	how can we [X] check it off	16:47
* adamw is the king of retrospective-justification-through-wikis		16:47
jlaska	adamw: it's still 20/20 right? :)	16:47
Oxf13	jlaska: in my head there is a simple webpage that is maintained by QA	16:47
Oxf13	this webpage describes Last Known Good and the fact that rawhide no longer has images of it's own	16:48
Oxf13	onthis page would be links to the install image files, and to the tree of packages it was found to be good with	16:48
Oxf13	with instructions on how to combine the two into an install	16:48
adamw	if you give me canonical locations for lng installer images and package tree i can totally make a wiki page for that.	16:48
adamw	also, those instructions :D	16:49
jlaska	Oxf13: ah that's helpful	16:49
Oxf13	and finally notes that without picking a specific repo of packages, the images will attempt to install the latest repo of packages on the mirror system	16:49
Oxf13	which has not been validated, and may not work	16:49
jlaska	alright, adamw I'll be happy to work the details with you	16:49
adamw	okay	16:50
adamw	action it?	16:50
jlaska	#info jlaska and adamw to work on drafting a 'last known good' wiki page	16:50
jlaska	err ...	16:50
jlaska	#action jlaska and adamw to work on drafting a 'last known good' wiki page	16:50
jlaska	Oxf13: thanks ... will probably pick your brain again during the week	16:50
Oxf13	no problem	16:50
jlaska	okay ... time for AutoQA update!	16:50
* jlaska hits the gong		16:51
jlaska	#topic AutoQA project update	16:51
jlaska	#topic AutoQA project update - deps/conflicts prevention	16:51
jlaska	wwoods: you want to kick things off for the AutoQA update?	16:51
wwoods	sure	16:51
wwoods	Friday afternoon I got a working yum-based prototype of the depcheck code	16:52
wwoods	http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/?p=autoqa.git;a=blob;f=tests/depcheck/depcheck	16:52
jlaska	saweet!	16:52
wwoods	a mere 147 lines, even	16:52
wwoods	I need to start creating test cases to make sure it works as expected	16:53
wwoods	typical runtime is ~20s	16:53
jlaska	wow, you really brought that down from the 60s	16:53
wwoods	~15s for leaf-node packages (e.g. something like hamster-applet)	16:53
wwoods	~19-20s for packages with lots of prov/req data (e.g. gcc)	16:54
jlaska	that's pretty darned good	16:54
wwoods	but "20s" is a safe estimate	16:54
wwoods	probably it can be sped up further	16:54
wwoods	but premature optimization is the root of all evil, and all that, so.. later	16:54
jlaska	heh	16:54
* jlaska stuffs a few #info tags into the mix		16:55
jlaska	#info Friday afternoon I got a working yum-based prototype of the depcheck code	16:55
jlaska	#link http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/?p=autoqa.git;a=blob;f=tests/depcheck/depcheck	16:55
jlaska	not that this is blocking your efforts, but I'm waiting for some feedback from jhutar, but rpmfluff should be an official fedora package soon	16:55
wwoods	excellent	16:56
wwoods	yeah I think I'd like to use rpmfluff etc. to generate test packages/repos	16:56
wwoods	for the test cases	16:56
jlaska	that'll be great to see	16:56
wwoods	yum's test cases involve creating objects which *simulate* test packages/repos/etc.	16:56
wwoods	not sure if that makes a significant difference	16:57
jlaska	just having a testsuite at all for this I think will pay off in the long run	16:57
wwoods	definitely.	16:57
jlaska	given the complexity	16:57
jlaska	nice work!	16:57
jlaska	wwoods: anything else on the depcheck front?	16:58
wwoods	no, I think that covers it	16:58
jlaska	sweet, alright ... kparal's up next	16:58
kparal	ok	16:59
jlaska	#topic AutoQA project update - rpmguard and resultsdb	16:59
kparal	so I have updated a few tickets regarding rpmguard	16:59
kparal	first is https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/ticket/113	16:59
jlaska	take it away kparal	16:59
kparal	when comparing the exactly same packages the rpmguard will now just skip the comparison and print a notice that they are the same	16:59
kparal	that could save a little computing power	17:00
jlaska	aha, nice ... that test run confused the heck out of me :)	17:00
kparal	it was connected to our problem of comparing the same package unintentionally	17:00
kparal	and second ticket connected to that is https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/ticket/114	17:01
kparal	before we compared the current package with the latest package from stable, updates or updates-testing	17:01
kparal	now we compare only to stable and updates, as per discussion on autoqa-devel	17:02
jlaska	nice to see all this stuff getting hashed out	17:02
kparal	and also we compare to the latest *previous* package (so it should not happen to compare two equal packages)	17:02
kparal	this also allows us to run the test any time in the future, even against older packages (in that time already in stable or updates, not in updates-candidate) and receive the same results	17:03
jlaska	oh so if I ran that test again, it should be grabbing ... yup, you just answered it	17:03
kparal	this can be beneficial when we find some problem in autoqa/rpmguard and need to re-run the test suite again	17:03
jlaska	#info I have updated a few tickets regarding rpmguard	17:04
jlaska	#link ttps://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/ticket/113	17:04
jlaska	#link ttps://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/ticket/114	17:04
jlaska	#link https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/ticket/113	17:04
jlaska	#link https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/ticket/114	17:04
adamw	side note on rpmguard: we should talk about the privesc stuff at some point, since that looks like it may turn into a Real Thing	17:04
* jlaska gets flagged for incorrect use of meetbot		17:04
kparal	adamw: privesc?	17:04
jlaska	#info adamw discussed possible rpmguard and privilege escalation coordination	17:05
kparal	ah	17:05
jlaska	kparal: that's the security policy Adam'w been working	17:05
kparal	just didn't know the abbreviation :)	17:05
Oxf13	jlaska: fyi, meetbot picks up links automatically, you don't have to #link them	17:06
jlaska	Oxf13: ah, thx	17:06
kparal	ok, that's all from me	17:06
jlaska	kparal: also the results db discussion earlier, hopefully I can help get some of you and wwoods ideas on "paper" this week	17:07
jlaska	kparal: thanks for the updates!	17:07
kparal	e-paper = wiki :)	17:07
jlaska	you got it	17:07
jlaska	#topic AutoQA project update - install automation	17:07
jlaska	#info Liam added a dvd_install.py script to the autoqa git repo last week	17:08
jlaska	https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/autoqa-devel/2010-January/000178.html	17:08
jlaska	it raises some interesting questions for me on how we'll approach automating the install matrix	17:08
jlaska	wwoods: if you have some time this week, I could use your input on that thread as well	17:09
wwoods	jlaska: yeah I've been meaning to give that a closer look	17:09
jlaska	ah thank you	17:09
jlaska	you know the usual ... trying to figure out what path is the most sustainable and scalable for building new install tests :)	17:10
jlaska	Liam has some more thoughts on the mailing list, I'll try to reply later today	17:11
jlaska	so that's great news, hopefully more install tests to come soon	17:11
jlaska	alright ... last up ...	17:11
jlaska	#topic AutoQA projet update - packaging	17:11
jlaska	#info Process akurtakov's feedback and remove all uncertain JAR files from the list	17:11
jlaska	I've got the list down to as small as I can get it ... adamw suggested reaching out to GWT upstream for some additional feedback	17:12
jlaska	so the plan this week is to Seek guidance from upstream GWT for ...	17:12
jlaska	* Cases where multiple versions of a JAR are bundled	17:12
jlaska	* Need for remaining bundled JARs? (see https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Jlaska/gwt#Status_uncertain)	17:12
jlaska	and ideally, I'd like to have one of the listed JPackage dependencies already started through the Fedora packaging process	17:13
jlaska	https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Jlaska/gwt#JPackage_Dependencies	17:13
jlaska	aside from that ... I've been going through the gwt.spec and removing JAR files and linking them to their equivalents (and adding BuildRequires)	17:14
jlaska	alright ... open discussion time	17:14
jlaska	#topic Open discussion - <your topic here>	17:14
jlaska	I'll close out the meeting in 2 minutes unless any topics come up	17:14
kparal	ok, one topic from me	17:14
jlaska	kparal: sure, what's up?	17:14
kparal	package update acceptance test plan	17:14
kparal	I just have a quick call for links :)	17:15
jlaska	oh oh, right on	17:15
jlaska	#topic Open discussion - Package Update Acceptance test plan	17:15
jlaska	#info kparal put out a call for links	17:15
jlaska	kparal: what sort of links are you looking for?	17:15
kparal	I'm currently working on package update acceptance test plan, that means what should be our approach to decide if some package update is good or not	17:15
kparal	I am currently looking into other distributions how they do it and trying to gather some inspiration	17:16
kparal	if somebody is aware of some documented policies and have links for them, I will be very glad if you send them to me	17:16
kparal	it is quite possible that I don't find everything that is available	17:17
jlaska	kparal: I wonder if the MUST and SHOULD items could provide some insight - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging:ReviewGuidelines	17:17
kparal	yes, currently I have found mainly requirements for the initial review process	17:17
kparal	but I haven't found many documents concerning package updates requirements	17:18
adamw	i'm sure debian must have a policy	17:18
jlaska	perhaps what wwoods is working on might be included in the mix? the depscheck stuff	17:18
kparal	it is possible that other distributions also don't have strict policies about that	17:18
kparal	but - if you know about such a policy and have a link, please send it to me. thanks :)	17:18
kparal	that was all from me, just a call for links	17:19
adamw	kparal: http://wiki.mandriva.com/en/Policies/SoftwareMedia	17:19
adamw	kparal: i wrote that for MDV back when I was there	17:19
jlaska	Oxf13: you have any handy links?	17:19
adamw	kparal: see the definitions for the 'updates' repositories	17:19
kparal	adamw: thanks, will look at that	17:19
adamw	kparal: also see http://wiki.mandriva.com/en/Policies/Support , the full policy for maintainers about updates	17:19
adamw	kparal: that was written by vincent danen when he was at mandriva, he also now works at red hat so you could always poke him for thoughts :) look for vdanen	17:20
kparal	adamw: great, thx	17:20
Oxf13	jlaska: I don't	17:20
jlaska	#topic Open discussion - <your topic here>	17:21
jlaska	anything else to cover, if not let's close it out	17:21
adamw	nothing frm me	17:22
jlaska	alright gang, thanks for your time!	17:22
jlaska	I'll follow-up to the list with minutes etc...	17:22
jlaska	#endmeeting	17:22

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