QA/Meetings/20100628

Attendees

People present (lines said):

• jlaska (113)
• kparal (70)
• adamw (64)
• j_dulaney (38)
• wwoods (35)
• Oxf13 (9)
• jskladan (7)
• Viking-Ice (7)
• skvidal (6)
• zodbot (5)
• hicham (5)
• chenrano2002 (5)
• ianweller (4)
• jraber (2)

Regrets:

• liam
• rhe

Agenda

• Proposed meeting agenda
• MeetBot summary

Previous meeting follow-up

1. adamw to forward wwoods a good explanation of the nss-softokn problem scenario to ensure autoqa catches it in future

   See https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/autoqa-devel/2010-June/000703.html

2. wwoods to evaluate nss-softokn dependency problem for proper 'depcheck' coverage
3. Viking-Ice will start 'how to debug systemd problems' guide and send to list for review

   See User:Johannbg/QA/Systemd

4. robatino to ask infrastructure team to archive previous RCs/TCs

   fedora-infrastructure ticket#2241

5. jlaska to review F14 test day wiki content

   QA/Fedora_14_test_days, Talk:QA/Fedora_14_test_days, Category:Fedora_14_Test_Days

6. jlaska to create a ticket about possible enhancement/new test case for ABI stability check

   autoqa ticket#190

7. jlaska to cleanup (or remove) the Critical Path Packages#Background section so that it provides _some_ value

F14 QA Recommendations

Owner - User:Jlaska

Summary

Jlaska organized Fedora_13_QA_Retrospective feedback into a list of QA recommendations for Fedora 14.

Jlaska filed tickets for improvements, see https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-qa/milestone/Fedora%2014

Next steps...

1. If you are looking for a way to get involved in Fedora QA ... start here
2. Don't see something you'd like to work on ... Create fedora-qa ticket

Proventester Update

Owner - User:Maxamillion, User:Adamwill

Summary

Adam Miller announced that the proventesters wiki page (QA/JoinProvenTesters) is no longer a draft.

There are several TRAC requests to join the proventesters group.

User:Adamwill drafted proventester instructions and sent to the list for review.

Next steps

• Review and finalize adamw's proventesters instructions document (see User:Adamwill/Draft_proventesters_instructions)
• Waiting on feedback from lmacken on the status of https://fedorahosted.org/bodhi/ticket/424 and re-enabling proventester karma for critpath packages

AutoQA

Automate Package Update Acceptance Test Plan

Owner - User:wwoods

Summary

The immediate goal is to automate the QA:Package_Update_Acceptance_Test_Plan. The team met and discussed task priorities and agreed on the following prioritization

Next steps...

• jlaska working with infrastructure on several tasks

1. fedora-infrastructure ticket#2221 - route http://autoqa.fedoraproject.org -> qa01
2. fedora-infrastructure ticket#2230 - create mysql database for autotest on db1
3. fedora-infrastructure ticket#2242 = Limit access to test systems qa01.c.fp.org through qa06.c.fp.org
4. jlaska - set up another private virtual autotest-server
5. jlaska - find a machine where resultdb may run (it can be VM, publicly accessible preferred)
6. jskladan, wwoods - bodhi hook needs to be tested -- autoqa ticket#87
7. autoqa ticket#195 - Create a helloworld test for use with testing hook
8. standardization of hook argument names will be discussed soon

Resultdb

Owner - User:jskladan

Summary

autoqa ticket#145

Test instance up'n'running on one of our machines

Rewrote initscripts & rpmlint tests (see jskladan branch in autoqa git) so they store the result data inside.

Next steps...

1. Finish updating other tests to store results in resultdb
2. Setup autotest-server instance to use these tests
3. Once results are posted into resultsdb ... start working on a front-end

Labels

Owner - User:kparal

Summary

autoqa ticket#181 - Implement *quick* virtualization support to allow for destructive tests

Kparal created a labels git branch to track development (see [https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/autoqa-devel/2010-June/000742.html

announcement])

Next steps...

1. Determine format of labels to use (see [https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/autoqa-devel/2010-June/000740.html

discussion])

1. Complete script to help manage virtual guests that will be used by the labels

Open discussion - <Your topic here>

colleges to help testing

Owner - User:j_dulaney

Summary

idea: get various small technical and comunity colleges to help with testing

Next steps ...

1. dulaney will ask if the instructor's interested, and point to the QA/Join page for ideas - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Join
2. Adamw offered QA help if there are any questions or interest

Knowledge base

Owner - User:jkeating

Summary

Jkeating asked the group if a Fedora Knowledge Base would be useful to your efforts?

The team discussed the idea of a knowledge base, but there wasn't anything tangible to offer feedback on

Next steps ...

1. Continue to refine the idea/proposal

Upcoming QA events

• 2010-07-08 - Pre-Alpha Rawhide Acceptance Test Plan #1
• 2010-07-15 - Pre-Alpha Rawhide Acceptance Test Plan #2
• 2010-07-22 - Pre-Alpha Rawhide Acceptance Test Plan #3
• 2010-07-23 - Alpha Blocker Meeting (f14alpha) #1
• 2010-07-30 - Alpha Blocker Meeting (f14alpha) #2

Action items

1. jlaska to cleanup (or remove) the Critical Path Packages#Background section so that it provides _some_ value
2. j_dulaney to draft a combined proventesters / joinproventesters wiki page for list review

IRC Transcript

jlaska	#startmeeting Fedora QA Meeting	14:59
zodbot	Meeting started Mon Jun 28 14:59:56 2010 UTC. The chair is jlaska. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.	14:59
zodbot	Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.	14:59
jlaska	#meetingname fedora-qa	14:59
zodbot	The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa'	14:59
jlaska	#chair kparal	15:00
zodbot	Current chairs: jlaska kparal	15:00
jlaska	#topic Gathering critical mass	15:00
* jskladan steps out of the shadows :)		15:00
* kparal looks around		15:00
* wwoods puts down his beer^Wcoffee		15:00
jlaska	jskladan: kparal: greetings	15:00
jlaska	wwoods: it's noon somewhere :)	15:01
hicham	i d highly suggest to add the eds mess	15:01
hicham	to the agenda	15:01
* Viking-Ice stands since there are no chairs left!		15:01
wwoods	hicham: why, exactly, is that a QA problem?	15:01
hicham	wwoods: i think it is qa problem, since updates are now broken	15:01
jlaska	hicham: you're welcome to bring up any QA suggestions related to that build during open discussion	15:01
wwoods	hicham: yes, but we already have plans for tests in place to keep that sort of thing from happening	15:02
hicham	wwoods: ah ok, thanks	15:02
wwoods	in the meantime it's still up to developers to *not* mess up the deps in the repos	15:02
wwoods	and they keep doing it	15:02
wwoods	this does not change our plans any	15:02
wwoods	nor is it our fault that it keeps happening	15:03
adamw	morningalydoodly	15:03
jlaska	hicham: for offline reading enjoyment ... https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Package_Update_Acceptance_Test_Plan	15:03
jlaska	adamw: welcome	15:03
jlaska	Viking-Ice: lurking?	15:03
Viking-Ice	Yup	15:03
jlaska	hey there	15:03
jlaska	alrighty, let's get movin'	15:03
wwoods	I completely understand the frustration though	15:03
jlaska	I'm going to breeze through the follow-up items ... I've got details on most of them ...	15:04
jlaska	#topic Previous meeting follow-up	15:04
jlaska	#info adamw to forward wwoods a good explanation of the nss-softokn problem scenario to ensure autoqa catches it in future	15:04
jlaska	#link https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/autoqa-devel/2010-June/000703.html	15:04
jlaska	next up ...	15:04
jlaska	wwoods: you were out last week, so surprise, I added an agenda item for you!	15:05
wwoods	haa	15:05
jlaska	queue the balloons and streamers	15:05
wwoods	hooray! lucky winner!	15:05
jlaska	wwoods: dunno if you have any updates, since this might be the first you saw of it ...	15:05
jlaska	#info wwoods to evaluate nss-softokn dependency problem for proper 'depcheck' coverage	15:05
wwoods	I don't recall the explanation of the exact dep problem	15:05
jlaska	wwoods: we can follow-up on autoqa-devel list ... checkout the description adamw sent (see previous #link)	15:06
* skvidal recalls		15:06
* adamw re-assigned all his work to wwoods and went golfing		15:06
skvidal	the nss-softokn thing was just a multilib issue iirc	15:06
adamw	check your to-do list	15:06
hicham	x86_64 version was older than i686 one	15:07
skvidal	ie: the lib didn't get auto pulled in as multlib by mash for the update	15:07
skvidal	but it did get pulled in for the GA	15:07
skvidal	hicham: right	15:07
jlaska	I think the only action here is to review whether this is something depcheck would have captured	15:07
adamw	skvidal: as jlaska says i already sent a description to autoqa-devel list	15:07
skvidal	adamw: sorry	15:07
adamw	npnp :)	15:07
jlaska	wwoods: okay taking this to the list?	15:07
wwoods	yeah, that's fine	15:07
* jlaska has Michael McDonald in his head now		15:07
jlaska	wwoods: thx	15:08
jlaska	next up ...	15:08
jlaska	#info Viking-Ice will start 'how to debug systemd problems' guide and send to list for review	15:08
wwoods	quick summary: we'll want to write test case for that situation - and all the other common "your repos asplode" problems	15:08
Viking-Ice	yup have started to work on https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Johannbg/QA/Systemd#Quick_Debugging_Tips	15:08
jlaska	Viking-Ice: I see you've already got quite a bit of content	15:08
jlaska	#link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Johannbg/QA/Systemd#Quick_Debugging_Tips	15:08
j_dulaney	Crap, was in the head too long	15:08
jlaska	jskladan: welcome :)	15:09
jlaska	Viking-Ice: very nice ... anything you want to follow-up with next week ... or should we stay tuned to test@ mailing list	15:09
Viking-Ice	We hit a bit of snag at work this last week so the work got a bit halted + I still have not contacted Lennart about several things.	15:09
Viking-Ice	I will post the page for the list for review once I'm done	15:10
jlaska	Viking-Ice: awesome, thanks again for tackling this	15:10
Viking-Ice	has releng got any plans on when we will switch to use systemd by default	15:10
jlaska	up next ...	15:10
jlaska	#info robatino to ask infrastructure team to archive previous RCs/TCs	15:10
jlaska	#link http://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/2241	15:10
jlaska	I haven't seen any updates on this yet, we may wish to reach out to infrastructure@ list also	15:11
jlaska	next ...	15:11
jlaska	#info jlaska to review F14 test day wiki content	15:11
jlaska	Nothing earth shattering here, just priming the wiki content for F14 test days	15:11
jlaska	#link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Fedora_14_test_days	15:11
jlaska	If anyone has ideas or suggestions, feel free to write them down on the talk page -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Talk:QA/Fedora_14_test_days	15:12
jlaska	next ...	15:12
jlaska	#info jlaska to create a ticket about possible enhancement/new test case for ABI stability check	15:12
jlaska	#link http://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/ticket/190	15:12
jlaska	that's been queued up for the copious spare time we all have lurking just around the corner!	15:12
jlaska	and last ...	15:12
jlaska	#info jlaska to cleanup (or remove) the Critical Path Packages#Background section so that it provides _some_ value	15:12
jlaska	I looked at this briefly, but don't have any new content to offer yet	15:13
jlaska	this should only take a minute or two though ... will knock this out for next week	15:13
jlaska	#action jlaska to cleanup (or remove) the Critical Path Packages#Background section so that it provides _some_ value	15:13
jlaska	okay ... time for the main event	15:13
jlaska	#topic Fedora 14 QA Recommendations	15:14
jlaska	You're probably getting tire of me saying it by now P)	15:14
* Oxf13 peeks in		15:14
jlaska	Oxf13: howdy	15:14
jlaska	so I'm just about done with filing tickets for the recommendations wiki	15:14
jlaska	#link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_13_QA_Retrospective#Recommendations	15:15
j_dulaney	An idea: get various small technical and comunity colleges to help with testing	15:15
jlaska	there are a few more that I've not yet filed ... but the bulk is complete	15:15
adamw	i guess we should make sure all the tickets are assigned appropriately?	15:15
jlaska	adamw: yup, I'm going to take this off the list ... and the next step is we get to work the queue	15:15
adamw	j_dulaney: there's an open floor section at the end of the meeting, can you raise it there? thanks. just keeps things on track =)	15:15
jlaska	#info Next step, start to work the ticket queue ... https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-qa/milestone/Fedora%2014	15:16
Oxf13	A little late, but due to some internal communication, I want to ask this group if they thought a Fedora Knowledge Base would be useful to your efforts?	15:16
Oxf13	as a recommendation for future Fedora releases.	15:16
* jlaska adds to open-floor ideas		15:16
jlaska	last point here ... if there is something you were itching to work on for Fedora 14 QA ... and there isn't a ticket	15:17
jlaska	not to worry :) Just file a ticket and start workin'	15:17
jlaska	Oxf13: btw ... I think that was down as a wishlist topic ... checking ...	15:18
Oxf13	ok	15:18
jlaska	Oxf13: same general idea ... "jlaska - Pony - some web tool to help collaborative problem debugging. Similar to http://answers.yahoo.com/ perhaps? "	15:18
Oxf13	k	15:18
jlaska	definitely filed under my pony category :)	15:18
jlaska	but "knowledge base" might be a more appropriate title	15:19
jlaska	okay ... any other comments on the retrospective or recommendations?	15:19
jlaska	I'm not planning on including this topic in future meetings	15:19
adamw	nup, just good job, thanks :)	15:19
jlaska	thanks all for the feedback, I hope I captured a manageable set of tasks for us on F14	15:20
jlaska	#topic Proventester update	15:20
jlaska	adamw: I have this as a running meeting topic, but I don't know if there are any updates this week	15:20
adamw	nothing much has happened. really we're waiting on bodhi now.	15:21
adamw	the only thing i considered is adding some instructions for mentors as well as instructions for testers.	15:21
jlaska	adamw: nice, so that means the proventester instructions dafrito and you worked on are complete?	15:21
j_dulaney	It seems the Wiki entry could be cleaned up a bit	15:21
adamw	i suppose it's worth nothing that the eds debacle gives a very clear indication of the need for this testing =)	15:21
jlaska	#link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Proven_tester	15:21
j_dulaney	Or I should say, made clearer	15:21
adamw	jlaska: well, i can't see any way to improve them	15:21
adamw	j_dulaney: which wiki entry, and what do you suggest could be improved?	15:22
jlaska	adamw: nice, I call that complete! :D	15:22
adamw	jlaska: either that or i suck, yep =)	15:22
j_dulaney	adamw: preoventester	15:22
adamw	the page jlaska just linked to?	15:22
j_dulaney	Indeed	15:23
adamw	what do you suggest changing?	15:23
j_dulaney	I'm thinking a little more on the mentoring and approval process	15:24
jlaska	j_dulaney: ah, I think something adamw mentioned he might like to see. We'd welcome any content to get things started	15:25
adamw	note that there is also the https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/JoinProvenTesters page	15:25
adamw	we should probably clean up the naming of both pages to be more co-operative	15:25
j_dulaney	Indeed. I seem to have missed that	15:25
j_dulaney	Maybe combine them?	15:26
adamw	possibly	15:26
j_dulaney	The joinproventesters seems rather short to have its own entry	15:26
adamw	we can basically choose to have one big 'everything about proven testers' page, or probably three separate pages for process, joining, mentoring	15:26
adamw	one page is a nice simple concept, i just would want to make sure it doesn't get too long and hard to follow	15:27
* adamw 's sworn enemy is the eye-glaze effect ;)		15:27
jlaska	I know that enemy	15:27
adamw	otherwise known as tl;dr	15:27
j_dulaney	That's why I tend to print :)	15:28
adamw	(took me years to figure out what that meant)	15:28
j_dulaney	Read through long bits of code, much?	15:28
Oxf13	this is where you really wish for "collapsable" sections in mediawiki	15:28
Oxf13	collapse all the sections by default except for the common top section, then expand the sub-sections as desired, for each of joining / mentoring	15:29
adamw	yeah, that would be ideal	15:29
* ianweller peeks in		15:29
jlaska	Oxf13: I think rhe found an option that might be available to anyone interested	15:29
adamw	jlaska: i thought that was tables?	15:29
jlaska	in fact, I think ianweller helped with adding the collapse css	15:29
jlaska	adamw: yeah, but I believe there is similar support for <div>'s too	15:30
ianweller	yeah i added css/javascript for collapsing tables	15:30
jlaska	but I could definitely be *wrong*	15:30
jlaska	rhe would know best	15:30
jlaska	or of course our wiki master ... ianweller	15:30
adamw	j_dulaney: it's something i try to avoid ;)	15:30
jlaska	but anyway ... adamw j_dulaney: anything you guys want to try on the wiki for next week?	15:30
j_dulaney	jlaska: Sure	15:31
adamw	j_dulaney: if you could make a separate draft of a combined page in your personal space on the wiki and send it to the list for comments that'd be awesome	15:31
j_dulaney	adamw: Indeed	15:31
adamw	i'd like to know what aaron thinks too since he did such an awesome job on the proventesters page	15:31
jlaska	good point!	15:31
adamw	(aaron = dafrito, not sure if he's around)	15:32
jlaska	grab and #action items you want ... otherwise, I'll keep this #topic on the agenda for our next meeting	15:32
adamw	#action j_dulaney to draft a combined proventesters / joinproventesters wiki page for list review	15:33
jlaska	ianweller: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:NavFrame	15:33
j_dulaney	#grab draft	15:34
j_dulaney	Got it, will do	15:34
ianweller	jlaska: i saw that, but it's not really making collapsible sections automaticaly	15:34
ianweller	i can't spell today	15:34
jlaska	ianweller: yeah, you're right	15:34
adamw	ianweller: hey, at least you didn't say automagically	15:35
adamw	there's a word that makes me want to punch things	15:35
* jlaska notes :)		15:35
jlaska	okay, thanks adamw and j_dulaney	15:35
jlaska	(and of course dafrito)	15:35
jlaska	next up ...	15:35
j_dulaney	the dude that taught me to program did things magically	15:35
adamw	unless his name was otto, you're good	15:36
jlaska	kparal: I just joined this other meeting, do you mind taking the #chair from here?	15:36
adamw	(thank you, thank you, i'm here all week)	15:36
jlaska	tip your waiter	15:36
kparal	jlaska: sure	15:36
j_dulaney	Wish I could afford to go somewhere with a waiter	15:36
* kparal looking for agenda		15:36
jlaska	kparal: I asked wwoods to drive the autoqa update for today	15:37
adamw	hey, denny's has waiters. technically.	15:37
kparal	so, we can hop on the AutoQA, right?	15:37
jlaska	kparal: yeah, that's next	15:37
kparal	#topic AutoQA update	15:37
kparal	wwoods: you have the mic!	15:37
wwoods	HELLO FEDORA QA	15:38
wwoods	ARE YOU READY TO ROOOOOOCK	15:38
wwoods	ahem sorry.	15:38
kparal	*applaud	15:38
j_dulaney	I've already got some Godsmack going	15:38
jlaska	haha	15:38
adamw	WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO	15:38
wwoods	so last week we (finally) got the post-bodhi-update hook merged	15:38
chenrano2002	gogogogo	15:38
* adamw jumps on someone's head		15:38
adamw	yay	15:39
jlaska	welcome chenrano2002!	15:39
wwoods	we're working on a new 'helloworld' test to make sure the bodhi-watcher and autoqa hook are working properly	15:39
chenrano2002	yes, I'm here:)	15:39
j_dulaney	in what language?	15:39
kparal	#info post-bodhi-update hook is merged	15:39
wwoods	the target is, of course, the 'depcheck' test	15:39
wwoods	which should check all new proposed updates for dependency breakage	15:39
kparal	#info 'helloworld' test is a new big task now ;)	15:40
wwoods	and refuse to let rel-eng move packages that might break the repos	15:40
chenrano2002	helloworld is really needed for newbie, I hope to see it	15:40
adamw	*fanfare*	15:40
wwoods	but that's a complex test that will require help from infrastructure/releng to set up properly	15:40
j_dulaney	Where can I go to read up on autoqa?	15:41
wwoods	so the helloworld test (written in python, like all the autoqa stuff) is what we'll use to test out the new hook.	15:41
wwoods	https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/ is where the code lives	15:41
j_dulaney	Roger	15:41
wwoods	https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/AutoQA is where the wiki docs are	15:41
kparal	ok, thanks wwoods	15:42
kparal	anything else from your end?	15:42
jlaska	wwoods: what can I help with to complete that helloworld?	15:42
jlaska	I think you and kparal had some run_once() suggestions ... just combine those and test?	15:42
wwoods	there's more autoqa stuff going on, but I think kparal & jskladan will have more to say about that	15:42
kparal	jlaska: I believe so	15:42
wwoods	jlaska: yeah - go for the quick-n-dirty-and-simple test and just dump locals()	15:43
jlaska	kparal: wwoods: (helloworld) ... okay thanks, I'll update the ticket	15:43
* Viking-Ice starts Moshing. . . .		15:43
wwoods	in the next week or two we might have a discussion about standardizing hook argument names, or tweaking the convention for passing hook args	15:43
wwoods	but don't let that stop you from getting helloworld working now.	15:43
kparal	#topic AutoQA update - resultdb	15:43
jlaska	at first, helloworld will just work with post-bodhi-update?	15:43
kparal	er	15:43
kparal	#topic AutoQA update	15:44
jlaska	kparal: sorry ... keep going, I'll follow-up with you guys on fedora-qa after	15:44
* kparal misclicked		15:44
kparal	#info standardization of hook argument names will be discussed soon	15:44
chenrano2002	kaparal can't wait to share his idea:)	15:44
kparal	jlaska: I believe helloworld should work for any hook	15:45
kparal	it will be just a generic test that will print out incoming arguments	15:45
kparal	that's all	15:45
kparal	and reports success :)	15:45
jlaska	kparal: right, just didn't know how far you guys wanted me to go with this	15:45
jlaska	but I'll hold off the standardization of hook args for later	15:46
j_dulaney	No pretty stuff on screen?	15:46
kparal	maybe it could draw a pony	15:46
j_dulaney	YAY	15:46
kparal	alright, ready for jskladan's update?	15:46
kparal	#topic AutoQA update - resultdb	15:46
jskladan	well, updates on the ResultsDB front - i have a testing instance up'n'running on one of our machines (kudos to jlaska & infrastracture team), i already rewrote initscripts & rpmlint tests (see jskladan branch in autoqa git) so they store the data inside. I'll finish the other tests during this week and will set up the testing autotest-server instance so it runs these tests :)	15:46
adamw	sounds nice!	15:47
kparal	#info resultdb running on our staging server	15:47
jskladan	so stay tuned for the magical tool being filled with data :)	15:47
jskladan	and once there is some reasonable specimen	15:47
jskladan	we can start working on some frontends	15:48
adamw	is it magical and revolutionary?	15:48
kparal	adamw: you bet	15:48
j_dulaney	Can it make a cheesesteak appear in front of me?	15:48
jskladan	so that's about it on the resultsDB for now :)	15:49
kparal	ok, thanks jskladan	15:49
kparal	#topic AutoQA update - autotest labels	15:49
kparal	and now for something different	15:49
jskladan	j_dulaney: only if you can pronounce the mighty words of power :))	15:49
kparal	I have created 'labels' branch that contains patched autoqa that can use autotest labels properly	15:50
kparal	at least I hope so	15:50
j_dulaney	jskladan: I know not this heavy wizardry, yet	15:50
kparal	announcement here	15:50
kparal	#link https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/autoqa-devel/2010-June/000742.html	15:50
kparal	we should now be able to specify "this test must run on Fedora 12", even dynamically	15:50
wwoods	hooray!	15:50
adamw	shiny!	15:50
wwoods	that was a big missing piece for a while, this is totally awesome	15:51
kparal	and we're now discussing best names for our labels:	15:51
kparal	#link https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/autoqa-devel/2010-June/000740.html	15:51
wwoods	does it just look for an existing machine that matches the labels, or can we actually spin up VMs as needed?	15:51
kparal	wwoods: it doesn't check for anything, it just schedules the job and atest takes care of the rest	15:52
kparal	if there is no machine matching that label, I guess it stays scheduled indefinitely	15:52
kparal	there are certainly areas for improvement :)	15:52
kparal	I still have to test is properly	15:52
j_dulaney	So, how would I go about getting my machines talking to it all?	15:53
kparal	#info autotest labels can now be used when patched autoqa from 'labels' branch is used	15:53
wwoods	j_dulaney: at this point, you don't. Although you can certainly run the tests at home if you like	15:53
kparal	I'm also working on a script that will ease VM installation for us, that's a second thing. I want to use it for my 'labels' testing	15:54
kparal	alright, that's from me	15:54
adamw	and you can set up your own autoqa server also. since, y'know, we're showing it's so damn easy ;)	15:54
j_dulaney	woods: right	15:54
kparal	#topic Open discussion <your topic here>	15:55
kparal	now type your ideas	15:55
adamw	we've had two mentioned earlier already	15:55
adamw	i believe j_dulaney was first	15:55
kparal	ok, what was the name of the idea?	15:55
* kparal scrolls back		15:55
kparal	j_dulaney: An idea: get various small technical and comunity colleges to help with testing	15:56
kparal	#topic Open discussion - colleges to help testing	15:56
j_dulaney	I was thinking of getting IT type classes at said colleges to do some of the testing for us	15:56
adamw	we've actually had one case of that already	15:56
kparal	j_dulaney: so what do you suggest should be done and how can you help? :)	15:57
adamw	vedran miletic teaches classes at a university, and he integrates Bugzappers into that; we've helped him out with having his students do some triage work a couple of times	15:57
adamw	it is a neat system	15:57
wwoods	is there a school you're in touch with where you could start such a program?	15:57
wwoods	oh cool so there's some documented prior work on how to do this stuff?	15:58
j_dulaney	at the local community college, I know the instructer that teaches the appropriate class	15:58
j_dulaney	I can't think of what said class is called at the moment, massive brain fart here	15:59
j_dulaney	Anyway, I'm sure he'd be happy to have his students try to break applications once in a while.	15:59
adamw	well for sure ask if the instructor's interested, and point to the QA/Join page for ideas - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Join	15:59
j_dulaney	Roger that	16:00
adamw	if they'd like to try any of that stuff we can certainly arrange to help them out	16:00
kparal	ok, if you have some contacts, try to lure them to us, sounds good :)	16:00
j_dulaney	I could also do the same thing at the local high school when class starts back up this fall	16:00
adamw	yup	16:01
kparal	ok, thanks	16:01
kparal	what was the other idea?	16:01
kparal	#topic Open discussion <your topic here>	16:01
* jraber wonders if anyone has heard an update regarding bug 552423 It is a COMMONBUG, but the last time I checked it was the only COMMONBUG with no workaround or planned fix		16:01
kparal	.bug 552423	16:02
zodbot	kparal: Bug 552423 [abrt] crash in gnome-panel (/usr/libexec/wnck-applet @ wncklet_connect_while_alive / wncklet.c:183) - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=552423	16:02
adamw	kparal: it was from oxf13 regarding a knowledge base	16:02
kparal	#topic Open discussion - Knowledge base	16:03
adamw	personally i hate the damn things, like i hate any large aggregation of likely-to-change-rapidly information without good mechanisms for staying up to date...	16:04
kparal	ok, so tell me what's the difference between knowledge base and a wiki? :)	16:04
j_dulaney	Microsoft's sucks	16:04
j_dulaney	Indeed, it is often useless	16:04
adamw	a well organized wiki is more granular and hence tends to have a better 'ownership' stake	16:04
chenrano2002	newers need docs, so is it possible to convert/public useful wiki to PDF format for reading locally?	16:05
adamw	in a good wiki, some person/people or group is clearly the owner of a given page and should update it	16:05
kparal	what would be the benefit of a knowledge base for us then?	16:05
adamw	yeah, i'm struggling	16:05
adamw	Oxf13: is there any more detail on the idea?	16:05
adamw	what's the proposed format/content of the knowledge base? how is it differentiated from the wiki? how would it be written/maintained?	16:05
kparal	thanks for formulating those questions, adamw	16:06
* jlaska back		16:06
* kparal gives jlaska the throne back		16:07
j_dulaney	I myself rather enjoy the idea of PDFs for basic stuff, but then one can just save the Wiki page	16:07
jlaska	kparal: no sir ... take us to the end :)	16:07
jlaska	don't want to distrupt the flow as much as I already have	16:07
kparal	we're just struggling with finding differences between knowledge base and wiki	16:08
jlaska	I don't know if there was anything actionable with this topic	16:08
kparal	alright, seems Oxf13 is away, we can discuss it next time	16:08
kparal	#topic Open discussion <your topic here>	16:08
adamw	sure	16:08
kparal	anything else anyone?	16:09
Oxf13	sorry I was on another call.	16:09
adamw	ah	16:09
Oxf13	adamw: basically the idea of having a Fedora KB has been kicked around by a couple people, and before we put any resources into it, we have to make sure there will be somebody to consume/contribute to it, so that it'll be useful use of our resources.	16:09
kparal	#topic Open discussion - Knowledge base	16:10
adamw	are there answers to the above question?	16:10
adamw	questions*	16:10
jlaska	adamw: nothing here ... let's come back to this when there is something more tangible	16:10
jlaska	I think it could be a compelling discussion ... if there is a proposal or existing solution etc.. ??	16:11
kparal	#topic Open discussion <your topic here>	16:11
jlaska	my $0.02 at least	16:11
jraber	regarding bug 552423, if nobody has an update, should I ping the maintainer? (should I save this for the bugzappers meeting tomorrow?)	16:11
adamw	if the idea is just 'something called a knowledge base' then i'd say, no, on the surface it seems to be just a duplication of the wiki and i can't see any added value. but we need more detail to provide sensible feedback.	16:11
kparal	jraber: please raise this question in #fedora-qa channel	16:11
jlaska	adamw: yup	16:11
kparal	alright, let's wait a minute and then close this meeting if noone objects	16:12
j_dulaney	I can think of nothing else	16:13
kparal	thanks all for attending	16:13
kparal	#endmeeting	16:13

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!