Revision as of 20:02, 23 August 2010

Attendees

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Agenda

Previous meeting follow-up

adamw and jlaska to propose artwork final release criteria

No updates, both jlaska and adamw have been busy

Jlaska agreed to send this out to design-team@ for review this week

adamw to update http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Testcase_desktop_updates to better describe the test experience on live images

Updates posted to wiki page, thanks Adam

jlaska to update https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Testcase_Anaconda_User_Interface_Basic_Video_Driver so that it better captures the post-install xdriver=vesa expectations

Adam was in the mood for wiki, thanks

maxamillion update rel-eng TRAC#3860 to request RC#5

Ticket updated, but it was later determined that RC#5 was not required.

F14 Alpha Status

Owner - rhe, adamwill

Summary

F-14 Alpha RC#4 compose CD and DVD images accepted as F-14-Alpha (see http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2010-08-19/fedora-meeting.2010-08-19-00.00.html)

Next steps...

Raise awareness of F-14-Alpha known issue ... http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common_F14_bugs#radeon-anaconda

jsmith asked the docs team to add an admonition to the top of the release notes
jsmith noted he would hilight this issue in the announcement mail as well
adamw was planning to ask the web group if they can put a one-liner with a link to release notes or common bugs on the download page

Monitor incoming bugs and propose/draft content for for http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common_F14_bugs

AutoQA update

Owner - User:wwoods
Summary: Jskladan improving how to write autoqa tests wiki page; Vojta posted upgrade-path test for review -- autoqa ticket#123; Wwoods and kparal discussed depcheck test cases, and posted initial tests for feedback -- autoqa ticket#202; Kparal noted that standardized hook argument patch set accepted ... multi-hook tests now possible; Kparal posted patch to correct failing rpmguard tests
Next steps...: Jlaska - apply and test kparal's koji_utils fix and report results; Jskladan to add "how to run autoqa test" note to the "how to write autoqa tests" wiki; Complete review of upgrade-path test -- autoqa ticket#123; Jskladan to post updated Writing_AutoQA_Tests to match the recent changes (control.autoqa, using AutoQATest, hook args, etc.); Complete depcheck test cases -- autoqa ticket#202; Jskladan and Wwoods to collaborate on mash support; Kparal and Wwoods to collaborate on depcheck unittest framework and remaining tests

Open discussion - <Your topic here>

Upcoming QA events

2010-07-29 - Test Alpha 'Test Compose'
2010-07-30 - Alpha Blocker Meeting (f14alpha) #3
2010-08-05 - Test Alpha Candidate
2010-08-06 - Alpha Blocker Meeting (f14alpha) #4
2010-08-11 - Fedora 14 Alpha Go/No-Go Meeting (17:00 EST) -- introduced 1 week schedule slip
2010-08-18 - Fedora 14 Alpha Go/No-Go Meeting (17:00 EST)
WE ARE HERE
2010-08-24 - Alpha Public Availability
2010-08-27 - Beta Blocker Meeting (f14beta) #1
2010-09-02 - Pre-Beta Acceptance Test Plan
2010-09-03 - Beta Blocker Meeting (f14beta) #2

Action items

IRC Transcript

jlaska	#startmeeting Fedora QA Meeting	15:00
zodbot	Meeting started Mon Aug 23 15:00:24 2010 UTC. The chair is jlaska. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.	15:00
zodbot	Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.	15:00
jlaska	#topic Gathering ....	15:01
* kparal available for the next 45 minutes		15:01
jlaska	#meetingname fedora-qa	15:01
zodbot	The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa'	15:01
* vaschenb		15:01
* jsmith is here		15:01
* wwoods here		15:02
adamw	yo	15:02
* Viking-Ice here		15:02
* jlaska figures joza is lurking		15:04
jlaska	alright ... let's get started so we can have kparal here for autoqa time	15:04
jlaska	#topic Previous meeting follow-up	15:05
* jskladan lurks		15:05
jlaska	jskladan hey there lurker!	15:05
jlaska	#info adamw to update http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Testcase_desktop_updates to better describe the test experience on live images	15:06
jlaska	looks like this got some recent edits	15:06
adamw	yeah, it should be right now.	15:06
jlaska	thanks adamw, I see the live qualifications ... looks good	15:07
jlaska	#info jlaska to update https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Testcase_Anaconda_User_Interface_Basic_Video_Driver so that it better captures the post-install xdriver=vesa expectations	15:07
jlaska	I believe this is complete ... and not because of me	15:07
* adamw did that too		15:07
jlaska	adamw was a wiki editing machine last week	15:07
jlaska	#info maxamillion update rel-eng TRAC#3860 to request RC#5	15:08
jlaska	maxa completed this ... but turned out we had a course correction and RC#5 wasn't required	15:08
jlaska	#info adamw and jlaska to propose artwork final release criteria	15:08
adamw	man, we suck	15:09
jlaska	a classic ... adamw, my name has been on that one, but I haven't touched it. Do you want me to reach out to design-team for thoughts?	15:09
adamw	if you could that'd be great	15:09
adamw	or if you're busy i can do it	15:09
adamw	either way	15:09
jlaska	alright, I'll fire that off this week	15:09
jlaska	that's all I had from last week ... let's dive into the agenda	15:10
jlaska	#topic F14 Alpha QA Status	15:10
jlaska	well, first off ... congrats everyone	15:10
jlaska	yet another Fedora release milestone behind us	15:10
adamw	party poppers	15:10
jlaska	they just keep on coming, don't they	15:10
kparal	enjoys	15:11
jlaska	adamw: I know you wanted to raise awareness on the radeon issue ... was there anything you wanted to discuss there?	15:11
adamw	jlaska: yeah, i'm a bit uneasy on that, i was assuming we'd have the readiness meeting to do it, but apparently we didn't schedule another readiness meeting even though the release was delayed (seems odd to me)	15:12
adamw	so i'll have to contact docs and websites teams directly, i haven't done that yet, i'll do it today	15:12
jlaska	jsmith: anything you can think of to help elevate the visibility of http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common_F14_bugs#radeon-anaconda	15:13
jlaska	#info adamw wants to raise awareness of known radeon display issue (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common_F14_bugs#radeon-anaconda)	15:15
jlaska	have folks been testing with F-14-Alpha + updates-testing?	15:15
wwoods	that's what I'm running	15:15
jlaska	it was only an improvement for me after the update ... that was good news	15:16
jlaska	adamw: CommonBugs looks in good shape ... anything else on your radar to close out F-14-Alpha for QA?	15:16
adamw	me too	15:16
adamw	it's slightly rough with all the gnome changes	15:16
jsmith	jlaska: I've asked the Docs folks to add an admonition to the one-page release notes for F14 Alpha	15:17
jlaska	jsmith: ah nice, thank you	15:17
adamw	jsmith: awesome, thanks	15:17
adamw	jsmith: i'm planning on asking the web group if they can put a one-liner with a link to release notes or common bugs on the download page	15:18
jsmith	I think we'll also highlight it in the announcement email	15:18
jlaska	both good ideas	15:19
adamw	no need to self-flagellate, just a quick mention with a link is fine	15:19
jlaska	adamw: I created an F14 QA retrospective wiki stub last week ... but I'll clean that up a bit and send that out so we can start collecting the good/bad/ugly	15:20
jlaska	#action jlaska to publish F-14-Alpha QA retrospective page	15:20
jlaska	in case it wasn't clear ... huge thanks again to all who contributed testing, especially the fast turn around on RC#4. While we did end up slipping for another issue, it was very helpful to have a sense for how the installer and desktop test matrices held up to the alpha release criteria	15:22
jlaska	adamw: any other Alpha topics/thoughts (or Jerry Springer final thoughts)?	15:22
adamw	of course, what this has all showed is that the really important thing is family...	15:23
jlaska	LOL!	15:23
adamw	er, nope. :)	15:23
jlaska	alrighty ... well done	15:23
jlaska	alright ... do you hear the music?	15:24
jlaska	that's not Duff man ... it's AutoQA time	15:24
jlaska	#topic AutoQA Package Acceptance	15:24
jskladan	well, no funky updates from me - i've been testing F14 a bit, and focused mostly on the "how to write autoqa tests" wiki	15:25
jlaska	I know F-14 pulled away some time+energy from some autoqa work, but it appears there was some progress last week	15:25
kparal	my patch that standardized some hook args was accepted, so it created better options for multihook tests	15:26
jlaska	jskladan: awesome, I can't wait to see the updated wiki page ... so much has changed with some of the recent patch sets	15:27
jlaska	standardized hook args being one of the big ones!	15:27
jlaska	how's the multi-hook milestone looking?	15:27
* jlaska checks		15:27
wwoods	and control.autoqa, and new stuff in control files and test wrappers	15:27
jlaska	down to only 1 ticket in the multi-host milestone ... that's great	15:28
jlaska	https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/ticket/203	15:28
kparal	multi-hook milestone is almost finished, now only to schedule tests for multiple hooks, which should be piece of cake. the framework is ready	15:28
jlaska	vaschenb: have you had a chance to look at those multi-hook tests kparal mentioned? Does that seem do-able with the time remaining?	15:30
jlaska	vaschenb: I'm sure multi-hook guru kparal can help answer any questions too :)	15:31
jlaska	wwoods: how's the depcheck front progressing?	15:31
vaschenb	jlaska: not yet, today I worked on upgradepath output...	15:31
kparal	I requested some upgradepath output format improvement at vaschenb :)	15:31
wwoods	jlaska: we've got some new unittests in depcheck that actually, like, prove that depchecking works as expected	15:31
wwoods	at least partially	15:31
vaschenb	jlaska: I'll take a look at it, but today I'm functionless	15:32
jlaska	wwoods: Bonus points for using built-in python unittest module! That's really cool looking stuff	15:32
wwoods	I split it up into a module and a CLI so we can keep the tool and the tests in different files.. little cleaner that way	15:32
wwoods	so the next thing to do is to start using mash instead of createrepo	15:32
wwoods	so we can actually handle multilib stuff properly	15:32
jlaska	#info jskladan improving 'how to write autoqa tests' wiki page	15:32
* jlaska info's		15:33
jlaska	#info kparal standardized hook argument patch set accepted ... multi-hook tests now possible	15:33
jlaska	#info vaschenb improving upgrade-path test output	15:33
jlaska	#info wwoods posted info about depcheck unit test framework	15:34
wwoods	mostly last week was about cleaning things up - f14a kind of took priority	15:34
jlaska	yeah ... these darn milestones!	15:35
jlaska	#info wwoods posted thoughts on depcheck next steps -- https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/autoqa-devel/2010-August/001010.html	15:35
jlaska	wwoods: you get any lucky volunteers for the mash work yet?	15:36
wwoods	jlaska: unfortunately I think I volunteered myself	15:36
jlaska	did everyone step back (but you)?	15:36
jsmith	jlaska: I think that's closer to the truth	15:37
jlaska	doh!	15:37
jskladan	wwoods: i said i'll dig into that	15:37
jskladan	maybe not too loud :)	15:37
jlaska	hehe	15:37
wwoods	jskladan: heh! maybe so. That'd be great	15:38
jlaska	yeah, +1 on the thanks jskladan	15:38
jskladan	wwoods: yeah, no problem at all. I'll have it on my radar, once i finish the wiki edit	15:38
wwoods	I'll try to help round up some info from the mash 'experts'	15:38
skvidal	s/mash experts/notting/	15:38
jlaska	there were 2 other non-depcheck items that I was aware of ... kparal do you want to talk about your latest patch to the list?	15:39
wwoods	mash seems to be one of those things where nobody fully understands it, so anyone who touches it immediately becomes a new 'expert'	15:39
kparal	ah, yes. well	15:39
kparal	this patch: https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/autoqa-devel/2010-August/001028.html	15:40
* jskladan looking forward to be the so called expert on yet another fancy field :)		15:40
jlaska	#info some rpmguard tests failing, see kparal's proposed patch https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/autoqa-devel/2010-August/001028.html	15:40
kparal	I think the code was wrong all the time. we requested the last release of a certain package, but we didn't check the provided repo, just its parents	15:41
kparal	which I didn't really understood and I believe it was wrong, until someone proves me otherwise :)	15:41
wwoods	very possible	15:42
kparal	so I have rewritten it to a behaviour I suppose it's correct, and by the way it also fixed the traceback we received before	15:42
jlaska	should I just apply this patch to our current instance?	15:42
kparal	jlaska: I believe it should work (better than before)	15:42
jlaska	kparal: okay, I'll apply and respond with results	15:43
kparal	jlaska: yes please	15:43
* kparal has to run, sorry		15:43
jlaska	#action jlaska apply and provide results against autoqa patch (https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/autoqa-devel/2010-August/001028.html)	15:43
jlaska	kparal: cya	15:43
jlaska	the other non-depcheck issue was vaschenb upgrade-path test	15:43
jlaska	I commented that I thought we'd probably want a method of running this test outside of the test harness (for folks who play the autoqa home-game)	15:44
jlaska	but then kparal and vaschenb pointed out that you can run the tests locally using a method I wasn't aware of	15:44
jlaska	just using 'autoqa post-bodhi-update --local ...'	15:44
* jskladan likes (and heavily uses) the --local)		15:44
jlaska	wwoods: did you have any thoughts on that approach vs a stand-alone script?	15:45
wwoods	either way seems fine to me	15:46
jlaska	I really like the stand-alone version, but then that means we have to write multiple option parsers etc...	15:46
jlaska	I don't often install 'autoqa' when testing out of git ... so I'm not familiar with this method	15:47
wwoods	I guess I just want to make sure we recognize that writing a test this way is not the most obvious (or simplest) path for general audiences	15:47
jlaska	as long as we document how to run the test somewhere, right?	15:47
wwoods	if you're skilled at hacking around in autoqa already then yeah, this totally works and saves you having to write option parsers etc.	15:48
wwoods	but for people who are like "hey I want to write a test, how does autoqa work" I'm still going to suggest "Write the test first, you don't need to know the full details of how autoqa works until you have a working test"	15:48
jskladan	well, my opinion is also a bit torn between these two options - having the test as "standalone" is absolutely superb for non-autoqa geeks	15:48
jskladan	but some tests can benefit a big time from the autoqa libs	15:49
jlaska	jskladan: you can still use autoqa libs for the stand-alone test	15:49
jlaska	just not autotest libs	15:49
jskladan	well, if you "make install" the autoqa, that is	15:49
wwoods	in short: I'm happy with both methods, but that means we need to support two ways of writing tests	15:50
jlaska	at least, that was my understanding of 'stand-alone' ... but this topic pointed out that the definition of 'stand-alone' was a bit vague	15:50
wwoods	one for autoqa hackers only, and one that's for everyone	15:50
jskladan	i do like the --local, because i do not have to provide a arg parser for my script	15:50
jskladan	(because autoqa parses it for me)	15:50
jlaska	that's nice	15:51
jskladan	but i sure do understand the stand-alone benefits	15:51
jskladan	and i totally agree with will on "write the test first" for non-autoqa-hackers	15:51
jlaska	so it doesn't seem there is a _wrong_ way to do this ... and this can be left as an exercise for the author?	15:52
wwoods	so yeah I think we're agreed here: non-standalone tests are totally acceptable - and really handy for proficient autoqa hackers	15:52
jlaska	#info in response to Vojta's upgrade-path patch, the group agreed that non-standalone tests are totally acceptable - and really handy for proficient autoqa hackers	15:53
jskladan	i belive, that we can all agree, that we should document (and highlight) the --local option	15:53
jskladan	so the non-hackers are able to run current tests	15:53
jlaska	more docs!	15:53
jskladan	(maybe a note on the "how to write tests"?)	15:53
wwoods	yeah, definitely!	15:53
jskladan	jlaska: docs rock the world :)	15:53
jlaska	jskladan: :D	15:54
jlaska	alrighty ... anything other autoqa topics?	15:54
jskladan	so, i'll add a "how to run the test" note to the wiki page	15:54
jlaska	jskladan: feel free to queue up a ticket for future consumption	15:54
jlaska	this is one that even I can probably help with ... esp since I'd like to learn this method	15:55
jskladan	#action jskladan to add "how to run autoqa test" note to the "how to write autoqa tests" wiki	15:55
jlaska	vaschenb: wwoods: anything else from you guys?	15:55
wwoods	nope, I'm good	15:55
vaschenb	jlaska: nothing	15:55
jlaska	alright, thanks folks ... love seeing the patch review and test progress on autoqa-devel@lists.fedorahosted.org	15:56
jlaska	great to see things moving forward	15:56
jlaska	Okay ... it's that time again ...	15:56
jlaska	#topic Open Discussion - <your topic here>	15:56
jlaska	anything to discuss/review/debate that we haven't already touched on?	15:57
jlaska	if nothing raised, I'll close out the meeting in 2 minutes	15:57
* adamw has nothing		15:58
topy	I search technical documentation about architectural of fedora cluster (redhat), but I don't find nothing of interesting. Can someone drive me to some useful links ?	15:58
jsmith	topy: Please don't interrupt the meeting to ask a non-related question	15:59
jlaska	Closing out in 30 seconds ...	15:59
Viking-Ice	jlaska: I wanted to ask if it has been considered to the nightly composes actually would use updates-testing or special koji repo for their compose..	15:59
Viking-Ice	so testers would get the latest bits instead of some outdated ones	16:00
jlaska	Viking-Ice: I believe we talked about that at a previous meeting ... kparal raised that topic in your absence	16:00
* jlaska finds		16:00
Viking-Ice	Oh I see	16:00
jlaska	https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Meetings/20100816#Nightly_live_composes	16:00
jlaska	Viking-Ice: you might want to add your point to the QA retrospective once I post the link ...	16:01
adamw	note, not captured in the summary there, nirik's explanation:	16:01
adamw	" the idea was that we should be testing the thing that we would ship."	16:01
jlaska	it would be a nice addition to the current live image process, but I don't think I'd want it to replace the live images used now	16:02
jlaska	adamw: thanks	16:02
Viking-Ice	we got alpha beta etc images for that	16:02
satellit_	Are the nightly composes working? last one for soas seems to be the 18th	16:02
Viking-Ice	satellit_: offtopic ask in QA	16:03
satellit_	ok	16:03
jlaska	satellit_: they appear to have failed ... we can follow-up with nirik in #fedora-qa	16:04
jlaska	alright folks ... thanks for your time	16:04
jlaska	I'll send minutes to the list	16:04
jlaska	#endmeeting	16:04

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