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#!html <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd"> <html> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" /> <title>2007-11-14-qa-meeting</title> <link rel="stylesheet" href="irclog.css" /> <meta name="generator" content="irclog2html.py 2.3 by Marius Gedminas" /> <meta name="version" content="2.3 - 2005-03-28" /> </head> <body> <table class="irclog"> <tr id="t10:03"><td class="other" colspan="2">-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting (1500UTC)</td><td><a href="#t10:03" class="time">10:03</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:04"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">rdieter, nirik, mether, rmw, Lovechild: ping</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:04" class="time">10:04</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">and f13 / jeremy / other multi-diciplinary folks: also ping</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:05" class="time">10:05</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> rdieter</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">here (kinda sorta)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:05" class="time">10:05</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">yo</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:05" class="time">10:05</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">rdieter: cool</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:05" class="time">10:05</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:05"><td class="other" colspan="2">-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | Schedule changes for F9</td><td><a href="#t10:05" class="time">10:05</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">So yes - I'm writing an email to fedora-test-list about the proposed changes</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:05" class="time">10:05</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">to make sure everyone's aware (there was brief mention of it last month but I still hear references to "test1" etc)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:06" class="time">10:06</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Is everyone aware of / cool with the propose changes/schedule?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:06" class="time">10:06</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">those are <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ReleaseEngineering/DevelopmentChangesProposal">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ReleaseEngineering/DevelopmentChangesProposal</a></td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:06" class="time">10:06</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">and <a href="http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f9/f9-tasks-overview.html">http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f9/f9-tasks-overview.html</a></td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:06" class="time">10:06</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">the only thing I've found that I'm still unsure about is that the Alpha release is still two months after Final</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:07" class="time">10:07</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">wwoods: the Alpha was an idea to have /something/ that is known to at least be installable as a jump off point for the development cycle.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:07" class="time">10:07</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">right</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:07" class="time">10:07</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:08"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">but we don't care much about other than it installing and getting updates afterward, so we're not doing a blocking freeze for it. it's just a named snapshot</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:08" class="time">10:08</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:08"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">(with a little extra time to make sure it happens)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:08" class="time">10:08</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:08"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">like I said, in the past we've gottin (deserved) bad press for putting out a half-baked release that lacks most of the stuff promised</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:08" class="time">10:08</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:08"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I think calling it "Alpha" and increasing awareness that test releases are just rawhide snapshots is good</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:08" class="time">10:08</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">but also - sanity check - there's more time for rawhide development now than in previous cycles, right?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:09" class="time">10:09</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">yes</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:09" class="time">10:09</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">there is no blocking freeze for test1, that adds a week~ there</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:09" class="time">10:09</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">now that we're doing the early branching and such the devs actually get some time before F8 final to work on stuff</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:09" class="time">10:09</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">plus add to that the amount of time we early branched and branched during F8 that added a month~</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:09" class="time">10:09</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">yeah, that's reasonable. I do think we're already seeing serious progress in f9 rawhide</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:10" class="time">10:10</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">a lot moreso than previous ones</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:10" class="time">10:10</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">as long as we believe that to be the intended effect of process changes and not just a happy fluke</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:10" class="time">10:10</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> rdieter</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">folks realize they can't wait (me included). :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:10" class="time">10:10</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">then I'm happy relying on that</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:10" class="time">10:10</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">yeah</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:10" class="time">10:10</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">I do want to better deal with a month+ of buildup for that first rawhide build.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:11" class="time">10:11</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">eventually I want to get to the piont where during teh final freeze, we're composing the release tree to a different location, and letting Rawhide continue on to the next release.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:11" class="time">10:11</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">my only other comment about the schedule: I'm gonna be doing family stuff the week of PR1, so I need someone to take the bug-herding hat while I'm gone</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:12" class="time">10:12</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">f13: that would be totally sweet.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:12" class="time">10:12</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">We'll use mirror manager to do some fun redirects for us to try and capture most people for release testing, you'd have to opt-out and into Rawhide again to get those bits.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:12" class="time">10:12</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">wwoods: I don't think we can realistically get there for 9, but maybe !10</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:12" class="time">10:12</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">so we're planning on doing the repo shuffle to pin rawhide to the final release again?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:13" class="time">10:13</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">(I liked that a lot)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:13" class="time">10:13</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">yes, I liked that too</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:13" class="time">10:13</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">we'll better plan it to avoid zomg no signed packages.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:13" class="time">10:13</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">can you make sure that gets on the schedule and do an announcement so people know when it's coming</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:13" class="time">10:13</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">yes</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:14" class="time">10:14</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">yeah, exactly</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:14" class="time">10:14</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">any other comments about the schedule changes? one less test release to test, yay</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:14" class="time">10:14</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">well, if we have a signing server and are automatically signing things with a key, that should take care of itself.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:14" class="time">10:14</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">they'll at least have /a/ key.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:14" class="time">10:14</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">rdieter: when is kde4 stuff landing? in time for F9Alpha?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:14" class="time">10:14</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">wwoods: I'm pretty sure you're going to have one less arch to care about.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:14" class="time">10:14</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">wwoods: but the tradeoff looks to be one more install method.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:15" class="time">10:15</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> rdieter</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">wwoods: we're about 35% there roughly now, should get most of it in by then (cross fingers)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:15" class="time">10:15</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">here's hopin'</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:15" class="time">10:15</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">some QA-specific stuff to discuss</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:15" class="time">10:15</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I don't think we're gonna create bugzilla versions for alpha/beta</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:15" class="time">10:15</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">the reasoning is: Test Releases Are Rawhide Snapshots</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:16" class="time">10:16</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">srsly?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:16" class="time">10:16</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">are we going to remove all the existing ones?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:16" class="time">10:16</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">so report your dang bugs against 'rawhide'</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:16" class="time">10:16</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I'd like to, yes</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:16" class="time">10:16</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">but I may be a bit overzealous here</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:16" class="time">10:16</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">I'm on board if we remove the existing ones, otherwise we're just going to get a bunch of misfires.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:16" class="time">10:16</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">(and people filing bugs about there being no version to file bugs against)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:16" class="time">10:16</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I'm amazed at how many bugs we get filed against 'f6test3' still</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:17" class="time">10:17</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">seriously? f6test3?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:17" class="time">10:17</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:17"><td class="action" colspan="2">* wwoods shakes head</td><td><a href="#t10:17" class="time">10:17</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:18"><td class="action" colspan="2">* poelcat +1 to removing all the unneeded versions</td><td><a href="#t10:18" class="time">10:18</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">wwoods: actually I think by some twist of fuckness, a brand new bugzilla user creating a new bug for Fedora gets f6test3 as the default version :/</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:18" class="time">10:18</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">f13: I think you're right</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:18" class="time">10:18</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">but I don't know why</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:18" class="time">10:18</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">wwoods: we really need to make sure that brand new users get the right version, but I don't know how to fix that</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:18" class="time">10:18</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I'll follow up with dkl about that</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:18" class="time">10:18</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:19"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">probably assume (latest stable) unless their browser tells us otherwise</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:19" class="time">10:19</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:19"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">further about rawhide: I've proposed changing the 'devel' version to 'rawhide'</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:19" class="time">10:19</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:19"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">which I think is only sensible</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:19" class="time">10:19</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:19"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">wwoods: are you going to talk to him about removing the extra versions too? I don't mind working with dkl to merge everything</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:19" class="time">10:19</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">but there's a further proposal which suggests that we name releases at the *start* of the cycle and use that name instead of "rawhide"</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:20" class="time">10:20</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">wwoods: I don't think that should effect bugzilla</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:20" class="time">10:20</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">so we'd call it "werewolf" as a codename up until release, and then the name would change to F8</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:20" class="time">10:20</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">wwoods: the only reasonable rational I heard for naming early was so that artwork and such can be made to fit before deadlines.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:20" class="time">10:20</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">right, it just makes it a little confusing as there'd be no "werewolf" version in bz</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:21" class="time">10:21</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> rdieter</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">and marketing...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:21" class="time">10:21</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">we may also use the codename as the pre-release staging directory as well.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:21" class="time">10:21</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">but then you have to keep monkeying with bugzilla</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:21" class="time">10:21</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">well, it helps with marketing/branding as well</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:21" class="time">10:21</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">but I'm still very much in the 'file it against Rawhide' camp.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:21" class="time">10:21</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">couldn't the bugzilla start page help this?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:21" class="time">10:21</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">or is that project dead?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:21" class="time">10:21</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> rdieter</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">maybe use bz label something like f8-werewolf ? then, no renaming is required.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:22" class="time">10:22</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">well, we want to avoid the ambiguity of having "f8" and "f8-werewolf"</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:22" class="time">10:22</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> rdieter</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">ok</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:22" class="time">10:22</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">it's possible we could segment off rawhide this way</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:22" class="time">10:22</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">have rawhide (moonshine), rawhide (werewolf), ...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:23" class="time">10:23</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">eeew</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:23" class="time">10:23</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">but.. yeah</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:23" class="time">10:23</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">poelcat: bugzilla start page is still a good idea - we even have bugz.fedoraproject.org</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:23" class="time">10:23</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">which, while having a silly name, has useful redirects</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:24" class="time">10:24</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">e.g. try <a href="http://bugz.fedoraproject.org/yelp">http://bugz.fedoraproject.org/yelp</a></td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:24" class="time">10:24</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> rdieter</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">kewl</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:25" class="time">10:25</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">so having a front page on that site (rather than having it redirect straight to regular bz) could be useful</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:25" class="time">10:25</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">oh that will come in handy.. still not optimal but way better than what I do currently</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:25" class="time">10:25</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">that also gives you links to the bodhi/koji/pkgdb pages for that package</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:25" class="time">10:25</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">it's pretty nice</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:25" class="time">10:25</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">heh</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:25" class="time">10:25</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">anyway I think probably playing silly games with bugzilla versions and rawhide is not the most useful thing</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:26" class="time">10:26</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">more useful would just be spending more time triaging and recruiting/training more triagers</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:26" class="time">10:26</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">wwoods: i'll file a ticket with dkl's group to merge all the versions and change devel to rawhide... posting to fedora-devel first</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:26" class="time">10:26</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">poelcat: awesome, that'd be great. thank you.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:26" class="time">10:26</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:27"><td class="action" colspan="2">* poelcat was also wondering if we should put some bug days on the schedule</td><td><a href="#t10:27" class="time">10:27</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> rdieter</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">yes!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:27" class="time">10:27</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">plan them in advance</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:27" class="time">10:27</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">oh sure!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:27" class="time">10:27</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">what day of the week would be best?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:28" class="time">10:28</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">which would give us incentive to clean up bugzilla, get start page tweaked, and other howto file bugs docs cleaned up</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:28" class="time">10:28</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">sounds way to sane.. everyone knows that frantically crying in the last minute is a far superior plan</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:28" class="time">10:28</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">and who can cover .eu / .au</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:28" class="time">10:28</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">by the way, the F8-thisweek bug link is in the topic for #fedora-qa: <a href="http://rdr.to/gc">http://rdr.to/gc</a></td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:28" class="time">10:28</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">I'm .eu citizen, I guess that means I volunteer</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:29" class="time">10:29</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> rdieter</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">frantic_crying: +1 :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:29" class="time">10:29</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">(407 new bugs on F8 this week.. weeeeee)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:29" class="time">10:29</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:29"><td class="other" colspan="2">-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | Bug Days</td><td><a href="#t10:29" class="time">10:29</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> rdieter</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">spin: more users -> more feedback/bugs. yay</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:29" class="time">10:29</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">indeed!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:30" class="time">10:30</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">yeah could be worse... could be zero bugs</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:30" class="time">10:30</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">fridays?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:30" class="time">10:30</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">a lot of these bugs are simple things - nvidia (CLOSED CANTFIX), stuff on the CommonBugs page</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:30" class="time">10:30</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">bad CD burns, etc</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:30" class="time">10:30</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">not ever friday, but is friday a good day?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:30" class="time">10:30</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Friday's OK with me</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:30" class="time">10:30</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">how about first one on 30-NOV ?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:30" class="time">10:30</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I should do some metrics on bug reporting and figure out whether people do them over the weekend or during the week more</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:31" class="time">10:31</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I should *also* figure out a way to keep score on bug triaging etc. like GNOME does</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:31" class="time">10:31</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">Since we do snapshot releases on Fridays, do you want to do them on Monday?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:31" class="time">10:31</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">f13: that's sensible</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:32" class="time">10:32</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">then we smack down the easy stuff right away</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:32" class="time">10:32</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">gives people a chance to pick up the latest snapshot over the weekend and verify</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:32" class="time">10:32</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">f13: that seems like a good idea, give people the weekend to download and burn the snapshot - if they hit bad bugs we are there to triage on mondays</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:32" class="time">10:32</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">yeah, my gut feeling is that bug reporting goes up on the weekends (and triaging goes down)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:33" class="time">10:33</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">on the other hand friday i could pay more attention than on friday</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:33" class="time">10:33</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">than on monday</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:33" class="time">10:33</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">so Monday makes some sense</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:33" class="time">10:33</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">unless you want to dedicate your weekend to Fedora as well :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:33" class="time">10:33</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">both sounds interesting, but probably too ambitious</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:33" class="time">10:33</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">let's start with Mondays</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:34" class="time">10:34</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">and if it really starts to pick up steam we can talk about adding Friday</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:34" class="time">10:34</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">maybe this needs a nice little page telling people to download the snapshot over the weekend and please join us on IRC monday?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:35" class="time">10:35</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">bug triage is an art, but it can be taught.. we need to create some teaching tools and stuff</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:35" class="time">10:35</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:35"><td class="action" colspan="2">* poelcat votes for starting on 19-NOV</td><td><a href="#t10:35" class="time">10:35</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> lmacken</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">wwoods: bugday!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:35" class="time">10:35</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">wwoods: all we need is wiki pages to start</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:35" class="time">10:35</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:36"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">poelcat: indeed</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:36" class="time">10:36</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">wwoods: if you can send me the existing page URLs I'll include with my post about changing the versions in bz</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:37" class="time">10:37</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">and a nice call for help on -test</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:37" class="time">10:37</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">and announce bug day at the same time</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:37" class="time">10:37</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">poelcat: existing pages for what, triage stuff? there's bugzapper stuff in the wiki</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:37" class="time">10:37</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">long-untouched</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:37" class="time">10:37</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:37"><td class="action" colspan="2">* wwoods sad about that, but making amends</td><td><a href="#t10:37" class="time">10:37</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Lovechild: definitely</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:37" class="time">10:37</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">wwoods: whatever makes sense to point people to in order to get started with bug triage... read up in advance</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:37" class="time">10:37</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">okay, quick vote: Bug Days on Mondays, starting 19-nov-2007</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:37" class="time">10:37</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">+1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:38" class="time">10:38</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> lmacken</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">+1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:38" class="time">10:38</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> rdieter</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">+1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:38" class="time">10:38</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">+1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:38" class="time">10:38</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:38"><td class="action" colspan="2">* wwoods +1, obvy</td><td><a href="#t10:38" class="time">10:38</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">okay, if no one is opposed..?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:38" class="time">10:38</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">+1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:38" class="time">10:38</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">decided: Bug Days on Mondays, starting 19-nov-2007</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:39" class="time">10:39</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> lmacken</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">I think the coolest part about our last big bug day was that we had incentives/prizes</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:39" class="time">10:39</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">poelcat: <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers</a> is a good place to start</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:39" class="time">10:39</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">lmacken: which one was that?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:39" class="time">10:39</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">lmacken: bribing people.. excellent idea</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:39" class="time">10:39</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> lmacken</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">The first one I think? Jack put it on.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:39" class="time">10:39</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> lmacken</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">2 years ago</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:39" class="time">10:39</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">wwoods: what IRC channel will we hold it in?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:39" class="time">10:39</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">But how did you measure performance?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:39" class="time">10:39</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">poelcat: #fedora-qa, I think</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:40" class="time">10:40</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> lmacken</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">bz activity :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:40" class="time">10:40</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> lmacken</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">I just pinged jack to try and get more details</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:40" class="time">10:40</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> lmacken</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">hopefully we can get him on board with it again</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:40" class="time">10:40</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">yeah, I'm curious about how you weight scoring for closing bugs vs. reassigning things to the proper places vs. other triaging stuff</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:40" class="time">10:40</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I'd love to have an automated system watching that stuff and keeping score</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:41" class="time">10:41</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">once we get pretty good at keeping score we can start giving prizes</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:41" class="time">10:41</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">but then you have incentive for people to game the system and blecch</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:42" class="time">10:42</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">anyway, I'd rather have that problem to worry about than the "nobody triages bugs and everything sucks" problem</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:42" class="time">10:42</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">oh, quick diversion</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:42" class="time">10:42</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">well I suspect it will be easy to just make a decision as to bug zapper of the week manually for the first while</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:42" class="time">10:42</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:42"><td class="other" colspan="2">-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | fedora-qa-list</td><td><a href="#t10:42" class="time">10:42</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Lovechild: ooh, good point</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:42" class="time">10:42</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">all this statistics crap is likely overkill for the first long time</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:43" class="time">10:43</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I'm proposing (officially) that we close fedora-qa-list and move qa discussion to -test-list or -devel-list as appropriate</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:43" class="time">10:43</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">the spam:post ratio for -qa-list is something like 15:1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:43" class="time">10:43</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:43"><td class="action" colspan="2">* wwoods filters all the spam. it ain't pretty</td><td><a href="#t10:43" class="time">10:43</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> lmacken</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">I think we should kill the test update notifications as well.. or at least throw them somewhere other than test-list</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:44" class="time">10:44</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">lmacken: +1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:44" class="time">10:44</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> lmacken</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">I'm planning on teaching bodhi about RSS feeds this week</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:44" class="time">10:44</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">yeah, agreed</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:44" class="time">10:44</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">we can reopen the list if it's grows or the qa stuff drowns on the other lists?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:44" class="time">10:44</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Lovechild: absolutely</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:44" class="time">10:44</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">mostly it would just save me some maintenance/admin time</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:44" class="time">10:44</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">wwoods: can you simply disable it so it can be brought back if desired?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:44" class="time">10:44</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">I'm some what worried about the trade off in terms of requiring qa people to read high volume lists</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:44" class="time">10:44</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">poelcat: that's a good thought, I'll look into that</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:45" class="time">10:45</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">well, I think qa people should definitely be on -test-list</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:45" class="time">10:45</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">-devel-list is optional IMHO</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:45" class="time">10:45</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">if we can get the notifications off -test-list that would be even better</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:45" class="time">10:45</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">I'm on both and keeping on top of it all is rather a big task</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:45" class="time">10:45</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Lovechild: agreed</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:45" class="time">10:45</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I skim the headers now and then but I generally don't read them in detail</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:46" class="time">10:46</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">FWN is a great help in this regard</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:46" class="time">10:46</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">I imagine people with less time to waste than me would be dissuaded from doing QA by it</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:46" class="time">10:46</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">oh yeah, does anybody think having testing update notifications go to test-list is a good idea?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:46" class="time">10:46</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Lovechild: do you think it would be reasonable if you were just on -test-list and the automatic notifications were moved?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:47" class="time">10:47</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">I think we can get them fed oout via rss instead.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:47" class="time">10:47</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> lmacken</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">RSS + anonymous feedback in bodhi</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:47" class="time">10:47</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">f13: I think having them go *somewhere* is a good idea, but -test-list isn't the place</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:47" class="time">10:47</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">send them to fedora-qa-list</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:47" class="time">10:47</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">;-)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:47" class="time">10:47</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">ha</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:47" class="time">10:47</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">yeah maybe I'll lock it down so only automated stuff can mail -qa-list</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:47" class="time">10:47</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">the update messages really should go on -test so people can easily comment on them.. not that they seem to do so.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:48" class="time">10:48</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">and we can move the notifications there</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:48" class="time">10:48</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">but it's probably no worse than asking people to subscribe to a second mailing list.. using -test and -devel does have the upside of having greater visibility</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:49" class="time">10:49</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">yeah, I think the update notifications are just noise</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:49" class="time">10:49</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">esp. if we have anonymous commenting in bodhi</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:49" class="time">10:49</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">yeah, I think the feedback needs to be done in bodhi, not the list</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:49" class="time">10:49</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:50"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> lmacken</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">update feedback in bodhi, bugs in bugzilla.. then what is left for test-list? questions?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:50" class="time">10:50</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:50"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">questions, discussion, planning</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:50" class="time">10:50</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:50"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> lmacken</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">ah gotcha.. yeah, esp if qa-list is going away</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:50" class="time">10:50</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:50"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">I like -test for early warning, basic bug confirmation</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:50" class="time">10:50</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:51"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">the *useful* stuff that goes on in -test-list these days</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:51" class="time">10:51</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:51"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">yeah</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:51" class="time">10:51</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:51"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">it's a good place for testers to be like "have you guys seen this?"</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:51" class="time">10:51</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:51"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">a future feature for triaging is going to be adding tags to the whiteboard field</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:51" class="time">10:51</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:51"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">so we can have an auto-updated page of Current Hot Bugs / Common Dupes / etc</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:51" class="time">10:51</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">also having a list keeps the social aspect of QA intact which is always nice</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:52" class="time">10:52</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">yeah, the social aspect is important</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:52" class="time">10:52</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">so, yes, we'll keep -test-list as the qa discussion group</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:52" class="time">10:52</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:53"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">I mean I wouldn't be doing QA if it wasn't fun and wwoods didn't boost my massively inflated ego occasionally</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:53" class="time">10:53</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:53"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">move update notifications to -qa-list or drop entirely?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:53" class="time">10:53</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:53"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> lmacken</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">+1 for dropping</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:53" class="time">10:53</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:53"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">couldn't they be just an rss feed - seems more like the thing to do, encourage mildly couragous testers to run with updates-testing enabled</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:53" class="time">10:53</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Lovechild: oh, there's no question about the RSS feed</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:54" class="time">10:54</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> lmacken</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">RSS and <code>bodhi --testable</code> / <code>bodhi -s testing</code> should suffice</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:54" class="time">10:54</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">maybe we'll drop the update notifications when we get RSS support in bodhi?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:54" class="time">10:54</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> lmacken</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">sounds good</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:54" class="time">10:54</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> lmacken</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">I'm planning to do that hopefully today or tomorrow</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:54" class="time">10:54</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> lmacken</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">along with making it public</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:54" class="time">10:54</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">making bodhi public? rad. how long 'til anon commenting? or.. actually I guess we don't *need* that immediately</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:55" class="time">10:55</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">what group(s) do you need to be in to comment in bodhi?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:55" class="time">10:55</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> lmacken</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">there's a TurboGears captcha widget that i'm going to try and use</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:55" class="time">10:55</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">that'd be a good way of tracking who's in QA</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:55" class="time">10:55</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">ah nice</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:55" class="time">10:55</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:56"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">yeah, allowing anon commentary would be very good</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:56" class="time">10:56</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:56"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> lmacken</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">and bodhi keeps people in the loop as well.. if you've commented on an update, you'll be notified of all other comments/changes</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:56" class="time">10:56</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:56"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">okay, so: shut -qa-list and stop update notifications on -test-list once we have RSS support in bodhi</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:56" class="time">10:56</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:56"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">wwoods: sounds like a great Trac ticket set 9:</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:56" class="time">10:56</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:56"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">(:</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:56" class="time">10:56</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">wwoods: we have a rel-eng Trac now, filing a ticket for making those things happen (minus the email list shut down) would be awesome.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:57" class="time">10:57</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:58"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">cool, will do</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:58" class="time">10:58</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Oh! crud. I'm out of town next week - grandmother's memorial / thanksgiving</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:59" class="time">10:59</a></td></tr> <tr id="t10:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">so I won't be around Monday for Bug Day</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:59" class="time">10:59</a></td></tr> <tr id="t11:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">I'm sure we can cover for you</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:00" class="time">11:00</a></td></tr> <tr id="t11:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">wwoods: i'll be around</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:00" class="time">11:00</a></td></tr> <tr id="t11:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">awesome</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:00" class="time">11:00</a></td></tr> <tr id="t11:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I'll try to pop in if I get some internets but it's not likely</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:00" class="time">11:00</a></td></tr> <tr id="t11:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">okay. anything else?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:00" class="time">11:00</a></td></tr> <tr id="t11:00"><td class="other" colspan="2">-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | Open Floor</td><td><a href="#t11:00" class="time">11:00</a></td></tr> <tr id="t11:02"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> lmacken</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a"><a href="https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/bodhi/wiki/CLI#Viewingwhattestingupdatesyouhaveinstalled">https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/bodhi/wiki/CLI#Viewingwhattestingupdatesyouhaveinstalled</a></td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:02" class="time">11:02</a></td></tr> <tr id="t11:02"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> lmacken</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">we should encourage people to use it! :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:02" class="time">11:02</a></td></tr> <tr id="t11:02"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Okay then! I'm gonna mail -test-list about development changes and Bug Day, and file a ticket about killing notifications on -test-list</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:02" class="time">11:02</a></td></tr> <tr id="t11:02"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> lmacken</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">easy way to see what you could be testing, and provide useful information to us</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:02" class="time">11:02</a></td></tr> <tr id="t11:03"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">poelcat was going to talk to dkl about getting rid of Fntestn versions</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:03" class="time">11:03</a></td></tr> <tr id="t11:03"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">(and we're not gonna use 'em in the future)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:03" class="time">11:03</a></td></tr> <tr id="t11:03"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">bug days are Mondays, starting Nov. 19</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:03" class="time">11:03</a></td></tr> <tr id="t11:03"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">we're closing -qa-list</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:03" class="time">11:03</a></td></tr> <tr id="t11:03"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I think that's all the decisions we made?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:03" class="time">11:03</a></td></tr> <tr id="t11:04"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">wwoods: fwiw I think you need to run your bugzilla changes through FESCo</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:04" class="time">11:04</a></td></tr> <tr id="t11:04"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">oh, and I guess we're officially endorsing the proposed changes?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:04" class="time">11:04</a></td></tr> <tr id="t11:04"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">f13: okay then</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:04" class="time">11:04</a></td></tr> <tr id="t11:04"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">i think periodic bug days, but not every monday</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:04" class="time">11:04</a></td></tr> <tr id="t11:04"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">indeed.. oh and can we finally get that ics calendar for qa activity?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:04" class="time">11:04</a></td></tr> <tr id="t11:04"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">Lovechild: yes, I can do those in taskjuggler</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:04" class="time">11:04</a></td></tr> <tr id="t11:04"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">but I need items for the schedule :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:04" class="time">11:04</a></td></tr> <tr id="t11:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I think I had a google calendar at some point</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:05" class="time">11:05</a></td></tr> <tr id="t11:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">poelcat: meetings on Wednesdays at 1500UTC, Bug Days.. let's say every other Monday, for now?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:05" class="time">11:05</a></td></tr> <tr id="t11:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">Lovechild: <a href="http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f9/f9.ics">http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f9/f9.ics</a></td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:05" class="time">11:05</a></td></tr> <tr id="t11:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">wwoods: i was thinking announce one at a time to create some buzz</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:05" class="time">11:05</a></td></tr> <tr id="t11:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">and then there's things like freezes and snapshot releases</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:06" class="time">11:06</a></td></tr> <tr id="t11:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">poelcat: nice. yeah, let's do that.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:06" class="time">11:06</a></td></tr> <tr id="t11:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Okay then, I don't want to take any more of your time, so.. thanks folks!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:07" class="time">11:07</a></td></tr> </table> <div class="generatedby"> <p>Generated by irclog2html.py 2.3 by <a href="mailto:marius@pov.lt">Marius Gedminas</a> - find it at <a href="http://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/">mg.pov.lt</a>!</p> </div> </body> </html>