ReleaseEngineering/Meetings/2008-mar-10

Fedora Release Engineering Meeting :: Monday 2008-03-10

Beta Release

• Test plan: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/TestPlans/Fedora9Install is the test plan
• http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/TestResults/TestSummaryTemplate is the "fill in the boxes" summary of results
• Discussion around what is working and not working--see IRC log for details

PreUpgrade

• rel-eng has agreed to maintain the file and it will be distributed on the mirrors
• pub/linux/fedora/releases/releases.list

Master Mirror Space

• after the board's talk with legal, we're clear to remove anything we want from the mirror.
• https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/421 is the ticket for the disk space
• Discussion about what releases need to be kept around and which ones can be deleted to free up space
• Potentially getting up to 2TB of space from HP

IRC Transcript

-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering Meeting - Roll Call		<a href="#t13:02" class="time">13:02</a>
* warren here		<a href="#t13:02" class="time">13:02</a>
* notting is here		<a href="#t13:02" class="time">13:02</a>
f13	ping: notting warren jwb rdieter jeremy wwoods poelcat spot	<a href="#t13:02" class="time">13:02</a>
* wwoods here		<a href="#t13:02" class="time">13:02</a>
rdieter	here	<a href="#t13:03" class="time">13:03</a>
jwb	here	<a href="#t13:03" class="time">13:03</a>
jwb	ish	<a href="#t13:03" class="time">13:03</a>
* poelcat here		<a href="#t13:03" class="time">13:03</a>
f13	I'm trying to chanage the wiki page to list the now adjusted UTC time	<a href="#t13:04" class="time">13:04</a>
f13	but I'm getting 500'd	<a href="#t13:04" class="time">13:04</a>
f13	ok, well	<a href="#t13:04" class="time">13:04</a>
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering - Beta Freeze		<a href="#t13:04" class="time">13:04</a>
wwoods	so.. rel-eng meeting adjusts for DST (i.e. it's tied to US Eastern time)?	<a href="#t13:05" class="time">13:05</a>
f13	Tonight is the beta freeze, for tomorrow's rawhide.	<a href="#t13:05" class="time">13:05</a>
f13	wwoods: yeah	<a href="#t13:05" class="time">13:05</a>
f13	dist-f9-beta exists, is continually updated with the latest dist-f9 stuff, and I've got signing writing out signed packages right now	<a href="#t13:05" class="time">13:05</a>
f13	rawhide tomorrow will likely have a bunch newly signed packages, but likely not all of them	<a href="#t13:05" class="time">13:05</a>
f13	I'll update dist-rawhide later tonight	<a href="#t13:05" class="time">13:05</a>
warren	about what time will the cut-off be?	<a href="#t13:06" class="time">13:06</a>
jwb	update it as in ?	<a href="#t13:06" class="time">13:06</a>
f13	dist-rawhide -> dist-f9 right now, tonight it'lls witch to -> dist-f9-beta	<a href="#t13:06" class="time">13:06</a>
jwb	yeah, ok	<a href="#t13:06" class="time">13:06</a>
f13	dist-rawhide is what feeds rawhide composes.	<a href="#t13:06" class="time">13:06</a>
jwb	yep, just making sure i understood	<a href="#t13:06" class="time">13:06</a>
f13	warren: 0700 UTC~	<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
f13	warren: likely a bit before	<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
* spot is here		<a href="#t13:08" class="time">13:08</a>
f13	so lots and lots of test trees coming	<a href="#t13:08" class="time">13:08</a>
f13	RHEL5 selinux is thwarting my attempts at using rhel5 + mock to compose trees, so we might not be able to do them in PHX for beta	<a href="#t13:09" class="time">13:09</a>
f13	but I'll be keeping a test location in sync with the trees I compose	<a href="#t13:09" class="time">13:09</a>
f13	wwoods: you have us a testing grid right?	<a href="#t13:10" class="time">13:10</a>
f13	we should make an announcement regarding it and invite people to use rawhide to test things	<a href="#t13:10" class="time">13:10</a>
wwoods	<a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/TestPlans/Fedora9Install">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/TestPlans/Fedora9Install</a> is the test plan	<a href="#t13:12" class="time">13:12</a>
wwoods	<a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/TestResults/TestSummaryTemplate">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/TestResults/TestSummaryTemplate</a> is the "fill in the boxes" summary of results	<a href="#t13:12" class="time">13:12</a>
jeremy	sorry I'm late... free lunch ran long :)	<a href="#t13:13" class="time">13:13</a>
f13	mmmmm	<a href="#t13:13" class="time">13:13</a>
f13	so....	<a href="#t13:15" class="time">13:15</a>
f13	life is going to be busy for a bit.  Anything else anybody would like to add?	<a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a>
f13	We should keep in pretty constant contact with the state of the beta	<a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a>
jeremy	wwoods: any indicator of how we're looking, especially relative to last week?	<a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a>
jwb	ppc was mostly happy last friday	<a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a>
f13	daily runthroughs of the blocker list, culling the non blockers, etc..	<a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a>
f13	jeremy: X is better, still some evdev oddities, but not bad	<a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a>
f13	trees are composing pretty regularly	<a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a>
f13	including ppc	<a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a>
f13	perl landed today	<a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a>
jeremy	f13: yeah, that's my impression too.  but I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything	<a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a>
* jeremy saw perl too		<a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a>
warren	I would really appreciate if somebody could review my ltsp package, been working constantly for more than 2 weeks getting that ready.	<a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a>
jwb	what does that have to do with Beta?	<a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a>
jeremy	also, if we find a place to put it (I'll talk to mmcgrath in a bit), I can put up a live image	<a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a>
f13	I think the NetworkManager bits to reliably read system config files landed so we can flip NM on by default	<a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a>
warren	jwb, I was told it needs to go in before beta or it doens't go in at all.	<a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a>
jwb	why is that?	<a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a>
warren	feature freeze?	<a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a>
f13	if it's a freature	<a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a>
jwb	it can go in.  it just won't be called a feature	<a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a>
jeremy	f13: we should check with dcbw where that stands (NM)	<a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a>
wwoods	jeremy: stage2 stuff is still problematic. haven't tried an iso install today yet	<a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a>
f13	jeremy: yeah, I got a text message on Friday/Sat saying that the bits landed upstream and that he was going to do a rawhide build	<a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a>
f13	yes, stage2 worries me a lot	<a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a>
wwoods	stage2=XXX definitelly doesn't work yet	<a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a>
jeremy	wwoods: clumens should be around I think and is your best bet for fixage	<a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a>
wwoods	he's in targeted selection training	<a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a>
jwb	?	<a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a>
jeremy	wwoods: "stay on target!" :)	<a href="#t13:20" class="time">13:20</a>
* nirik wonders if the kvm vmware video finds no modes is known/filed/being looked at?		<a href="#t13:20" class="time">13:20</a>
jeremy	nirik: it's filed (and affects vmware vmware too afaik)	<a href="#t13:20" class="time">13:20</a>
wwoods	gah. the internal mirror disappeared from the mirrorlist for rawhide for some reason	<a href="#t13:20" class="time">13:20</a>
nirik	ok, sounds good. I should see if the 'root can't login on console' thing I just saw is filed too.	<a href="#t13:20" class="time">13:20</a>
jwb	welcome to life for the rest of us wwoods	<a href="#t13:20" class="time">13:20</a>
f13	oh, also	<a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a>
f13	syslinux doesn't seem to like recent kvm	<a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a>
jeremy	wwoods: I can try to take a look too if you have concrete reproducers of problems	<a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a>
wwoods	forget that! I don't wanna deal with slow mirrors like you suckas	<a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a>
wwoods	jeremy: sure	<a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a>
wwoods	oh. right-alt is still enter (or space) in anaconda. grumble grumble	<a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a>
wwoods	upgrade traceback... while looking for /etc/rpm/platform	<a href="#t13:22" class="time">13:22</a>
wwoods	bluh. I'll take this stuff offline and report bugs and junk	<a href="#t13:22" class="time">13:22</a>
f13	ok.	<a href="#t13:22" class="time">13:22</a>
f13	we got works ahead of us	<a href="#t13:22" class="time">13:22</a>
jeremy	but otherwise, would it really be a freeze? :)	<a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a>
f13	bad day for selection training.	<a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a>
wwoods	basically: shit's rough but I'm hopeful	<a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a>
* jeremy at least feels like we're freezing on top of something more solid		<a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a>
notting	mmm, frozen quicksand	<a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a>
jeremy	f13: and an entire bad week for me.  woo!	<a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a>
f13	nice	<a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a>
f13	well, anything else on Beta?	<a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a>
notting	jeremy: punting redoing keymaps to match X?	<a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a>
jeremy	notting: yeah, I thought we decided that a few weeks ago	<a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a>
f13	alright;	<a href="#t13:26" class="time">13:26</a>
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering - Open Floor		<a href="#t13:26" class="time">13:26</a>
f13	Given the beta, I'm not focusing on anything else this week.  Is there anything else anybody wants to bring up?	<a href="#t13:26" class="time">13:26</a>
* warren falls through the open floor.		<a href="#t13:26" class="time">13:26</a>
* f13 watches warren fall through the hole in the roof		<a href="#t13:27" class="time">13:27</a>
wwoods	this might be an infrastructure thing instead, but	<a href="#t13:27" class="time">13:27</a>
wwoods	the preupgrade feature requires a place to put a releases.list file	<a href="#t13:27" class="time">13:27</a>
wwoods	which.. surprise! lists available releases	<a href="#t13:27" class="time">13:27</a>
notting	a place... on the mirrors? on the wiki? in space?	<a href="#t13:27" class="time">13:27</a>
wwoods	that's the question, really	<a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a>
wwoods	does something like that go on the mirrors, or do we just find some random place in the fp.o space to put it	<a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a>
wwoods	it's kind of the Official (machine-parseable) List O' Available Releases	<a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a>
f13	we probably don't want it to be a SPOF	<a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a>
wwoods	and it'll need some (small amount of) rel-eng involvement to flip bits when releases are made public	<a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a>
f13	so..	<a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a>
f13	pub/linux/fedora/releases/releases.list ?	<a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a>
wwoods	e.g.: add Fedora 9 when F9 is released	<a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a>
wwoods	<a href="https://fedorahosted.org/preupgrade/browser/dev/releases.list">https://fedorahosted.org/preupgrade/browser/dev/releases.list</a>	<a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a>
f13	ok	<a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a>
f13	so yeah, I think dropping it in pub/fedora/linux/releases/ makes sense	<a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a>
wwoods	f13: works for me. but yeah - requires updating when releases are.. released. which is a releng-y task.	<a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a>
f13	aight.	<a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a>
f13	I have one other peice of business I forgota bout	<a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a>
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering - Master Mirror Space		<a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a>
wwoods	f13: so - can I say that rel-eng has agreed to maintain the file and it'll be distributed on the mirrors? :D	<a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a>
f13	wwoods: sure	<a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a>
wwoods	rad. thanks.	<a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a>
f13	<a href="https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/421">https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/421</a> is the ticket for the disk space	<a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a>
f13	after the board's talk with legal, we're clear to remove anything we want from the mirror.	<a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a>
f13	Which could be everything up to the Fedora 7 bits	<a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a>
nirik	Beta is gonna have jigdo bits, correct?	<a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a>
f13	I'm still syncing stuff to spinning disks in Bostford but once that's done we can do some rm -rfing	<a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a>
f13	nirik: yes	<a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a>
notting	f13: so, fc6 disappears completely? no archive?	<a href="#t13:36" class="time">13:36</a>
f13	I'm going to announce likely later this week the pending removal of the bits, temporary for now, ideally put back in archive.fedoraproject.org later with redirects from the old locations	<a href="#t13:36" class="time">13:36</a>
f13	notting: we'll want to put the bits back online eventually, we just don't have the resources to do so immediately	<a href="#t13:36" class="time">13:36</a>
notting	do the mirror heads in rdu/tpa have similar space issues?	<a href="#t13:37" class="time">13:37</a>
f13	but we have to clear something off to handle 9's release with split media once again, and secondary arch content.	<a href="#t13:37" class="time">13:37</a>
f13	notting: I do believe so, they're all supposedly matched sets	<a href="#t13:37" class="time">13:37</a>
notting	well, do we have space for 9 release w/o seconday arches?	<a href="#t13:38" class="time">13:38</a>
notting	and is there a concrete plan for the future other than begging?	<a href="#t13:38" class="time">13:38</a>
jeremy	notting: begging...  with feeling  ?	<a href="#t13:39" class="time">13:39</a>
jwb	f13, which secondary arch content?	<a href="#t13:39" class="time">13:39</a>
f13	jwb: ia64 is the immediate need	<a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a>
f13	they're ready to start having us pick up their rawhide droppings	<a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a>
jwb	cool	<a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a>
jwb	wasn't aware of that	<a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a>
jwb	are they all hooked into koji?	<a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a>
dgilmore	jwb: partly	<a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a>
jwb	explain?	<a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a>
dgilmore	jwb: I need to finish making things work	<a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a>
f13	notting: Without scrubbing /some/ content we don't have room for 9 at all	<a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a>
dgilmore	jwb: they are queueing builds  but not trying to reproduce the buildroot	<a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a>
f13	notting: my future plan is that we only keep the active or active -1 releases on the netapps, and we archive things to an archive server with less costly space issues	<a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a>
jwb	dgilmore, and that's acceptable?	<a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a>
notting	f13: sure, but we don't have one of those yet :)	<a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a>
dgilmore	jwb: for now	<a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a>
jwb	wait, why?	<a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a>
f13	notting: correct.  We have some of the stuff for it, but it's being used for backups right now	<a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a>
f13	jwb: because it's better than nothing	<a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a>
notting	f13: yeah, just hosting non-critical things without a concrete plan for space  acquisition makes me nervous	<a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a>
f13	I still think that reproducing the buildroot exactly is impossible	<a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a>
jwb	i've offered to send hard drives before	<a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a>
jwb	jeremy says that's pointless	<a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a>
f13	notting: we have plans, and budgets, but they're in later quarters	<a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a>
notting	f13: did we not think we'd run out of space this fast?	<a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a>
notting	jwb: drives is sort of misleading. would need drives, and a box, in the colo, and some sort of redundancy...	<a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a>
jwb	yeah, hence pointless	<a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a>
f13	notting: I don't think mmcgrath was aware that we were going to do split media for 9 again, and wasn't expecting to host secondary arches	<a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a>
notting	then... say no?	<a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a>
warren	we could do split media jigdo only...	<a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a>
f13	notting: board already said yes.	<a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a>
warren	or all media jigdo only...	<a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a>
f13	warren: I'd rather not	<a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a>
notting	f13: then tell the board they have their head up their ass and cough up some hardware	<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
jwb	f13, what the board says and what we can physically accomplish are entirely different things	<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
f13	we /can/ accomplish it	<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
f13	there is no reason to keep Fedora Core 2 crap on the master mirror share	<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
f13	it's just silly	<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
jwb	1-6 can go	<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
f13	we can temporarily move it offline until the archives space frees up	<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
jwb	why are we hosting it at all anymore again?	<a href="#t13:46" class="time">13:46</a>
jwb	the old stuff i mean	<a href="#t13:46" class="time">13:46</a>
notting	i'm just not sure i see the point of 'oh, we'll put it somewhere else later'	<a href="#t13:46" class="time">13:46</a>
f13	cleaning 1-6 off (basically the core/ directory) gives us ample space.	<a href="#t13:46" class="time">13:46</a>
notting	after all, you're going to blow up their fc6 installs for 6 months anyway	<a href="#t13:46" class="time">13:46</a>
notting	why would the users then care that you're putting it back	<a href="#t13:46" class="time">13:46</a>
warren	blow up?	<a href="#t13:46" class="time">13:46</a>
notting	yum doesn't like no baseurls existing	<a href="#t13:46" class="time">13:46</a>
f13	maybe they'll get the point that their release isn't supported anymore	<a href="#t13:47" class="time">13:47</a>
warren	does removing 1-5 give us enough space?	<a href="#t13:47" class="time">13:47</a>
notting	admittedly, they haven't seen updates for however long, but now they'll get loud errors	<a href="#t13:47" class="time">13:47</a>
f13	warren: depends on how fast other arches spin up	<a href="#t13:47" class="time">13:47</a>
notting	i just don't like the ridiculous measures to support (IMO) a silly decision	<a href="#t13:48" class="time">13:48</a>
warren	notting, +1	<a href="#t13:48" class="time">13:48</a>
jwb	arent' you on the board?	<a href="#t13:48" class="time">13:48</a>
notting	jwb: doesn't mean people listen to me	<a href="#t13:48" class="time">13:48</a>
f13	notting: then please go talk to the board and spot, 'cause that's where the pressure is coming from	<a href="#t13:48" class="time">13:48</a>
jwb	notting, i'm just wondering if you said the same during the board meeting	<a href="#t13:48" class="time">13:48</a>
f13	HP has already sent us a box to hold the bits on disks until we can get archives up and runing.	<a href="#t13:48" class="time">13:48</a>
warren	<notting> and is there a concrete plan for the future other than begging? <-- This doesn't bode well.	<a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a>
f13	concrete plans involve budgetary planning, which we're doing.	<a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a>
f13	although a lot of the problem is finger pointing when it comes to "who is going ot pay for this"	<a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a>
f13	notting: but please don't use releng as a method to further disagree with the board.  I don't really like being put in that position.	<a href="#t13:50" class="time">13:50</a>
jwb	why is that?	<a href="#t13:50" class="time">13:50</a>
* warren wonders if we should split the ISO and package mirrors into different trees.		<a href="#t13:51" class="time">13:51</a>
f13	jwb: we elect a board for a reason, they've made a decision, and we're doing the best we can to accomplish their decision.	<a href="#t13:51" class="time">13:51</a>
f13	warren: wtf are you talking about?	<a href="#t13:51" class="time">13:51</a>
warren	It makes less and less sense to have multiple copies of the same thing.	<a href="#t13:52" class="time">13:52</a>
notting	f13: it's the responsibility of rel-eng to give feedback to the board if what they ask for is nuts	<a href="#t13:52" class="time">13:52</a>
f13	it also makes less and less sense to carry really old content on the expensive master mirror.	<a href="#t13:52" class="time">13:52</a>
jwb	i think we should ax the older releases regardless of the current discussion	<a href="#t13:52" class="time">13:52</a>
jwb	at very least 1-4	<a href="#t13:52" class="time">13:52</a>
f13	notting: well, I don't necessarily agree that it's nuts.  I think the timing is a little off, but it's nothign we can't deal with.	<a href="#t13:52" class="time">13:52</a>
f13	jwb: 1-4 doesn't give us enough space IIRC	<a href="#t13:52" class="time">13:52</a>
f13	1-5 gets us closer	<a href="#t13:53" class="time">13:53</a>
f13	1-5 + the Fedora 7 Test [1234] may just about cover it	<a href="#t13:53" class="time">13:53</a>
f13	we may get away with keeping 6 on the master netapp	<a href="#t13:53" class="time">13:53</a>
jwb	does that include extras 3-5?	<a href="#t13:53" class="time">13:53</a>
notting	f13: this deletion is planned for... post-beta?	<a href="#t13:53" class="time">13:53</a>
f13	jwb: yes, that includes it.	<a href="#t13:53" class="time">13:53</a>
f13	notting: planned for as soon as I get the bits mirrored to the HP box in bostford, and send an announcement to the mirrors / users	<a href="#t13:54" class="time">13:54</a>
f13	could be before beta, but will probably be after.	<a href="#t13:54" class="time">13:54</a>
f13	notting: but if you can convince the board to choose a different course of action before then...	<a href="#t13:56" class="time">13:56</a>
notting	f13: do you or don't you want to be cc'd?	<a href="#t13:56" class="time">13:56</a>
f13	as it stands, getting new mirrors bootstrapped is pretty tough given how much old content there is.	<a href="#t13:56" class="time">13:56</a>
jwb	notting, please cc rel-eng	<a href="#t13:56" class="time">13:56</a>
f13	notting: sure, keep me cc'd, I'd like to be informed.	<a href="#t13:56" class="time">13:56</a>
f13	jwb: ++	<a href="#t13:56" class="time">13:56</a>
notting	i'd just feel *much* better if archives was actually live now.	<a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a>
notting	was there something that prevented the HP donation going somewhere it could be used in a public manner?	<a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a>
f13	notting: rack space in PHX	<a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a>
f13	== 0	<a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a>
notting	and we can't send it to serverbeach?	<a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a>
f13	no ability to put things outside the firewall in Bostford	<a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a>
f13	serverbeach provides us machines, not the other way around	<a href="#t13:58" class="time">13:58</a>
warren	notting, serverbeach does only dedicated, not colo.	<a href="#t13:58" class="time">13:58</a>
f13	we'd have to buy another machien from them, or more storage	<a href="#t13:58" class="time">13:58</a>
notting	so, barring adding a cname for archives.redhat.com to elvis.redhat.com...	<a href="#t13:58" class="time">13:58</a>
f13	and getting IS to agree to putting another box in the colo	<a href="#t13:58" class="time">13:58</a>
warren	how much space does elvis have?	<a href="#t13:58" class="time">13:58</a>
notting	about 22G ;)	<a href="#t13:58" class="time">13:58</a>
f13	does elvis have the 400~ gigs we need?	<a href="#t13:58" class="time">13:58</a>
f13	s/colo/dmz/	<a href="#t13:58" class="time">13:58</a>
warren	notting, where is elvis anyway?	<a href="#t13:58" class="time">13:58</a>
notting	somewhere in the rdu 4th floor lab, iirc	<a href="#t13:59" class="time">13:59</a>
warren	f13, what do you mean by redirect?  http redirect?	<a href="#t13:59" class="time">13:59</a>
f13	warren: yes	<a href="#t13:59" class="time">13:59</a>
f13	warren: if we can.	<a href="#t13:59" class="time">13:59</a>
warren	f13, and do we allow rsync access to archive.fp for people who want to mirror it for no good reason?	<a href="#t13:59" class="time">13:59</a>
f13	warren: saves us from re-filing export approval for all the old releases.	<a href="#t13:59" class="time">13:59</a>
notting	well, actually elvis is a nursing home in texas with jfk battling mummies. but that's besides the point	<a href="#t13:59" class="time">13:59</a>
f13	warren: it should.	<a href="#t13:59" class="time">13:59</a>
f13	well, nothing will be deleted before our next meeting	<a href="#t14:01" class="time">14:01</a>
notting	f13: how much space will the in-6-months archives.fp.o be?	<a href="#t14:01" class="time">14:01</a>
f13	notting: that's a mmcgrath question	<a href="#t14:02" class="time">14:02</a>
notting	and i suppose there's not really space on spins either	<a href="#t14:02" class="time">14:02</a>
spot	notting: HP is working on donating much more storage to us	<a href="#t14:04" class="time">14:04</a>
f13	probably not that much space, but again, that's a mmcgrath question.	<a href="#t14:04" class="time">14:04</a>
spot	i'm working with mmcgrath to find a home for it.	<a href="#t14:04" class="time">14:04</a>
jwb	spins has about 84gig free	<a href="#t14:04" class="time">14:04</a>
spot	about 2 TB	<a href="#t14:05" class="time">14:05</a>
jwb	though i think mmcgrath recently had an upgrade for spins somewhere	<a href="#t14:05" class="time">14:05</a>
notting	f13: dumb question - we want to have a written offer of some sort for F9 to handle some of these GPL issues. is there a way to beta test that without tying us into keeping the beta for however many years?	<a href="#t14:05" class="time">14:05</a>
f13	... beta test a written offer?	<a href="#t14:05" class="time">14:05</a>
jwb	that seems... bad.  and also a question for fedora-legal	<a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a>
f13	what do you want to test?	<a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a>
notting	f13: i.e., does including the first wording of this offer in the beta tie us to keeping the beta online for 3 years	<a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a>
* jwb <- not lawyer		<a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a>
f13	notting: word it in such a way that it doesn't.	<a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a>
notting	heh	<a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a>
f13	I don't think you can just put "NOT!" at the bottom.	<a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a>
notting	mdomsch: are you in charge of that?	<a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a>
f13	you can put a chucnk of text saying "This is where the written offer will be"	<a href="#t14:07" class="time">14:07</a>
f13	but I'm curious what you're trying to ... test	<a href="#t14:07" class="time">14:07</a>
notting	the last i heard is that there was going to be something in the toplevel readme about the source offer	<a href="#t14:07" class="time">14:07</a>
notting	and i don't want it to cause problems later	<a href="#t14:07" class="time">14:07</a>
f13	yeah, I'm not capable of answering that	<a href="#t14:08" class="time">14:08</a>
mdomsch	I'm still working on it..	<a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a>
mdomsch	won't be ready this week though	<a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a>
notting	f13: but whatever we do, you *do* want to make sure it doesn't apply to betas?	<a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a>
mdomsch	I need to get FSF legal (brett smith?) to ack that for GPLv2 we don't _have_ to provide physical media with source, if it's online	<a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a>
jwb	and alphas and rcs	<a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a>
mdomsch	GPLv3 fixed that particular madness	<a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a>
mdomsch	notting, right - we really only want that to apply to releases	<a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a>
mdomsch	where we can expect to press media	<a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a>
mdomsch	at least for now	<a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a>
jwb	mdomsch, why the v2/v3 distinction?	<a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a>
notting	mdomsch: and is this using gpl as the original source license, or gpl as the collective license.	<a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a>
mdomsch	there's a desire to allow GPLv2 3b) for everything - but we're far from there yet	<a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a>
mdomsch	notting, both...	<a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a>
mdomsch	jwb, v2 (in the FSF's opinion of the past) meant we had to put source on physical media for people if they wanted it, because we put the binaries on physical media	<a href="#t14:11" class="time">14:11</a>
f13	notting: that is correct.  Making pre-releases stick around for 3 years will very very very quickly run us out of disk space	<a href="#t14:11" class="time">14:11</a>
mdomsch	v3 says basically "putting them online is sufficient"	<a href="#t14:11" class="time">14:11</a>
jwb	is there something preventing us from using gplv3 which has this issue fixed ?	<a href="#t14:11" class="time">14:11</a>
mdomsch	jwb, all the v2-licensed code in the distro? :-)	<a href="#t14:11" class="time">14:11</a>
jwb	oh, yes	<a href="#t14:12" class="time">14:12</a>
notting	f13: sorry to drag things off-topic. anything else?	<a href="#t14:12" class="time">14:12</a>
f13	I got nothing, but a hungry belly	<a href="#t14:13" class="time">14:13</a>
f13	anybody else?	<a href="#t14:13" class="time">14:13</a>
jwb	let's talk about spins	<a href="#t14:13" class="time">14:13</a>
jwb	just kidding :)	<a href="#t14:13" class="time">14:13</a>
f13	thanks all	<a href="#t14:15" class="time">14:15</a>

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