QA/Meetings/20071128

IRC Transcript

-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | init		<a href="#t10:04" class="time">10:04</a>
wwoods	<a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA</a>	<a href="#t10:04" class="time">10:04</a>
* mmcgrath wonders if this is related to the other outages going on. Investigating.		<a href="#t10:05" class="time">10:05</a>
* wwoods begins the log		<a href="#t10:06" class="time">10:06</a>
wwoods	okay. I don't have a big agenda to get through today	<a href="#t10:06" class="time">10:06</a>
wwoods	I've been working on rewriting the QA pages on the wiki to help people get started in QA	<a href="#t10:06" class="time">10:06</a>
wwoods	(unfortunately, no wiki right now, so you'll have to take my word for it)	<a href="#t10:07" class="time">10:07</a>
f13	I believe you	<a href="#t10:07" class="time">10:07</a>
ricky	I got to it, just really slowly.	<a href="#t10:07" class="time">10:07</a>
wwoods	I've also been talking with Len DiMaggio about QA plans for Fedora - he's got decades of experience in the industry with this stuff so it's good to see what he thinks of our efforts	<a href="#t10:08" class="time">10:08</a>
wwoods	(<a href="http://swqetesting.blogspot.com/">http://swqetesting.blogspot.com/</a>)	<a href="#t10:08" class="time">10:08</a>
wwoods	anyway, quick roll call: Lovechild, f13, mether, rdieter, nirik, mkanat: who's here?	<a href="#t10:09" class="time">10:09</a>
mkanat	I am.	<a href="#t10:09" class="time">10:09</a>
mether	I am	<a href="#t10:10" class="time">10:10</a>
mkanat	Kind of randomly, really. :-)	<a href="#t10:10" class="time">10:10</a>
wwoods	heh!	<a href="#t10:10" class="time">10:10</a>
f13	wwoods: wonk.	<a href="#t10:10" class="time">10:10</a>
wwoods	Lovechild: I finally put links to the Fedora QA schedule on the QA page	<a href="#t10:10" class="time">10:10</a>
wwoods	(see near the bottom, under Regular Meetings)	<a href="#t10:10" class="time">10:10</a>
wwoods	in theory we had a Bug Day on Monday the 19th. did that happen?	<a href="#t10:11" class="time">10:11</a>
mether	no	<a href="#t10:11" class="time">10:11</a>
rdieter	here	<a href="#t10:11" class="time">10:11</a>
wwoods	mether: ah well	<a href="#t10:11" class="time">10:11</a>
wwoods	Well. I have another one scheduled for Monday the 3rd	<a href="#t10:12" class="time">10:12</a>
wwoods	(it's even on the calendar)	<a href="#t10:12" class="time">10:12</a>
wwoods	I'd like to go through some new F8 bugs, but there's a lot. probably we should choose a couple of subsystems	<a href="#t10:12" class="time">10:12</a>
wwoods	sound and kernel, for instance	<a href="#t10:12" class="time">10:12</a>
wwoods	Anyway, I'll post to test-list after this about it	<a href="#t10:14" class="time">10:14</a>
wwoods	anyone who has a suggestion for things to examine can speak up there	<a href="#t10:14" class="time">10:14</a>
mether	is there important bugs filed against Fedora 8 that we should look at?	<a href="#t10:15" class="time">10:15</a>
f13	that requires triaging	<a href="#t10:16" class="time">10:16</a>
wwoods	There's nothing I know of that's not on Bugs/F8Common	<a href="#t10:16" class="time">10:16</a>
f13	which is some of the point of bug days	<a href="#t10:16" class="time">10:16</a>
mether	In a number of systems, it seems firstboot doesnt show up but I havent seen any specific bug reports on that for instance	<a href="#t10:16" class="time">10:16</a>
wwoods	but.. yes, f13's got it	<a href="#t10:16" class="time">10:16</a>
mkanat	mether: Yes, I filed the bug that's probably the source of most of that.	<a href="#t10:16" class="time">10:16</a>
mether	mkanat: great. whats the bug number?	<a href="#t10:16" class="time">10:16</a>
mkanat	mether: I'll go find it.	<a href="#t10:17" class="time">10:17</a>
mether	I will add that to the common bugs list	<a href="#t10:17" class="time">10:17</a>
* mkanat wishes bugzilla.redhat.com was new enough that buggbot could query it.		<a href="#t10:17" class="time">10:17</a>
rdieter	fwiw, I triaged a whole bunch of kde bugs on the 19th, resulting in closing a  whole slew of ancient bugs, and marking many newer ones NEEDINFO.	<a href="#t10:18" class="time">10:18</a>
mkanat	bug 364951	<a href="#t10:18" class="time">10:18</a>
buggbot	Bug <a href="https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=364951">https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=364951</a> high, high, ---, Chris Lumens, ASSIGNED , firstboot doesn't start if network connection fails	<a href="#t10:18" class="time">10:18</a>
wwoods	interesting	<a href="#t10:19" class="time">10:19</a>
mether	i have seen atleast a dozen different posts	<a href="#t10:19" class="time">10:19</a>
mether	and a few people in my office have hit this bug	<a href="#t10:19" class="time">10:19</a>
mkanat	It's most likely that.	<a href="#t10:19" class="time">10:19</a>
mether	very likely	<a href="#t10:20" class="time">10:20</a>
mether	ironically, I spend more time in this release checking out how yum upgrade works and didnt test Anaconda much	<a href="#t10:20" class="time">10:20</a>
mkanat	Heh. :-)	<a href="#t10:21" class="time">10:21</a>
mkanat	Well, I have to say, yum upgrade worked really well for me, so... :-D	<a href="#t10:21" class="time">10:21</a>
Lovechild	for what it's worth, here - I just zoned out for a bit	<a href="#t10:21" class="time">10:21</a>
mether	mkanat: yes. I think it has worked pretty well this release	<a href="#t10:21" class="time">10:21</a>
mether	wwoods: there was some discussions in fedora-devel list about testing anaconda	<a href="#t10:21" class="time">10:21</a>
mether	wwoods: in the context of the upgrade problems (actually a yum issue)	<a href="#t10:22" class="time">10:22</a>
mkanat	mether: Yeah. :-)	<a href="#t10:22" class="time">10:22</a>
wwoods	mether: yeah, I saw that there was a discussion but didn't read it	<a href="#t10:22" class="time">10:22</a>
Lovechild	I thought SNAKE was going to be our savior on anaconda issues	<a href="#t10:22" class="time">10:22</a>
mether	Lovechild: it was Kate before. I dont know if SNAKE is any better	<a href="#t10:22" class="time">10:22</a>
mether	has anyone worked with it?	<a href="#t10:22" class="time">10:22</a>
wwoods	unfortunately snake only helps when we have good inputs	<a href="#t10:22" class="time">10:22</a>
wwoods	like package lists	<a href="#t10:22" class="time">10:22</a>
f13	really what would help more than anything is getting more and more people to test upgrades during the development cycle.	<a href="#t10:23" class="time">10:23</a>
wwoods	unless we knew in advance what package sets to try, we wouldn't have hit this	<a href="#t10:23" class="time">10:23</a>
* poelcat is here		<a href="#t10:23" class="time">10:23</a>
f13	if we had better utilities to say snapshot your system, attempt an upgrade, note failures, restore to old snapshot this would be much more compelling	<a href="#t10:23" class="time">10:23</a>
f13	We can do some of that with virt, but...	<a href="#t10:24" class="time">10:24</a>
poelcat	mether: we attempted to have a bug day... a few people stopped by	<a href="#t10:24" class="time">10:24</a>
mether	I think the release criteria should include testing without a network connection	<a href="#t10:24" class="time">10:24</a>
f13	the real value is in testing this stuff on people's day to day machines.	<a href="#t10:24" class="time">10:24</a>
f13	mether: feel free to add it.	<a href="#t10:24" class="time">10:24</a>
wwoods	mether: that's reasonable.	<a href="#t10:24" class="time">10:24</a>
mether	poelcat: yes we *attempted*. It didnt really happen	<a href="#t10:24" class="time">10:24</a>
mether	not blaming anyone. it just didnt	<a href="#t10:24" class="time">10:24</a>
Lovechild	f13: that sounds like a compelling idea, some kind of tool to build an image pre update would seem to be a good idea	<a href="#t10:24" class="time">10:24</a>
f13	Lovechild: we need such tools anyway, and the ability to restore to said image outside the system (shoudl the system become hosed) from like a rescue kit.	<a href="#t10:25" class="time">10:25</a>
f13	Lovechild: the OS X time machine stuff is extremely neat	<a href="#t10:25" class="time">10:25</a>
Lovechild	f13: could we build it into the rescue cd, it would be a simple boot - the only problem is really restoring the system.	<a href="#t10:26" class="time">10:26</a>
* wwoods bought a mac mini this week, didn't get Leopard on it (!@%!@##&)		<a href="#t10:26" class="time">10:26</a>
wwoods	there's vestigial snapshot/rollback support stuff in yum and rpm	<a href="#t10:27" class="time">10:27</a>
f13	wwoods: take it back!	<a href="#t10:27" class="time">10:27</a>
Lovechild	so what we really need is a filesystem that natively supports that kind of snapshotting such as btrfs	<a href="#t10:27" class="time">10:27</a>
f13	wwoods: we want it outside rpm/yum	<a href="#t10:27" class="time">10:27</a>
wwoods	f13: nah, I'll just give 'em $10 and make 'em send me a copy	<a href="#t10:27" class="time">10:27</a>
f13	wwoods: it needs to be general purpose so that it catches silly "I just deleted my home directory" stuff.	<a href="#t10:27" class="time">10:27</a>
wwoods	and/or "borrow" a copy in the meantime	<a href="#t10:27" class="time">10:27</a>
wwoods	f13: seriously? that's *our* problem?	<a href="#t10:27" class="time">10:27</a>
f13	Lovechild: LVM can easily do snapshots, regardless of file system.	<a href="#t10:27" class="time">10:27</a>
f13	wwoods: it's Fedora's problem.	<a href="#t10:27" class="time">10:27</a>
Lovechild	f13: that's not silly, that's tragic.. think of all porn	<a href="#t10:28" class="time">10:28</a>
f13	wwoods: we seriously need something like time machine, or XP's snapshot system.	<a href="#t10:28" class="time">10:28</a>
mether	Lovechild: that might take a year or two if we are relying on that specific filesystem. LVM's seems to be a better answer to me	<a href="#t10:28" class="time">10:28</a>
f13	Lovechild: there is a Feature for RescueKit, a greatly improved rescue image.	<a href="#t10:28" class="time">10:28</a>
wwoods	yes, it's a need, but it's not a QA problem	<a href="#t10:28" class="time">10:28</a>
f13	wwoods: sure, it would just help make QA more compelling if one could reliably recover from a failed attempt	<a href="#t10:28" class="time">10:28</a>
wwoods	oh absolutely	<a href="#t10:29" class="time">10:29</a>
Lovechild	mether: lvm is appealing but it's definitely not without it's downfalls either the tools to use it are abominable	<a href="#t10:29" class="time">10:29</a>
mether	f13: btw what happened to the idea of dropping the boot.iso and just using rescue iso images for everything?	<a href="#t10:29" class="time">10:29</a>
mkanat	Even just doing, "Here's a list of packages installed, and then do this, and then try an upgrade" would probably work.	<a href="#t10:29" class="time">10:29</a>
mether	Lovechild: idk. if you understand the concepts, the tools seem fairly logical to me	<a href="#t10:30" class="time">10:30</a>
f13	mether: that's in the Anaconda feature pages.	<a href="#t10:30" class="time">10:30</a>
Lovechild	also lvm has some known performance issues on raid setups, cutting my throughput in half thanks to a bolt on solution	<a href="#t10:30" class="time">10:30</a>
mether	anyway back to topic	<a href="#t10:30" class="time">10:30</a>
mether	is there anything specific to discuss?	<a href="#t10:30" class="time">10:30</a>
f13	Lovechild: to be fair, system-config-lvm has improved over time.	<a href="#t10:30" class="time">10:30</a>
wwoods	mkanat: right	<a href="#t10:30" class="time">10:30</a>
Lovechild	mether: we are talking about a time machine like things here.. that actual users can operate, lvm is far to complex currently it needs serious sugar	<a href="#t10:30" class="time">10:30</a>
f13	bugzilla change is upcoming, I really think somebody needs to make more noise about this.	<a href="#t10:30" class="time">10:30</a>
poelcat	f13 noise about what?	<a href="#t10:31" class="time">10:31</a>
rdieter	oh?	<a href="#t10:31" class="time">10:31</a>
wwoods	which bugzilla change?	<a href="#t10:31" class="time">10:31</a>
mether	Lovechild: The Apple underlying technologies are similar too. If you think we need better gui's, I wont argue with that	<a href="#t10:31" class="time">10:31</a>
f13	wwoods: devel -> rawhide	<a href="#t10:32" class="time">10:32</a>
f13	and removing the test releases.	<a href="#t10:32" class="time">10:32</a>
mether	Lovechild: any idea what was the live cd installation problem linux action show kept cribbing about ?	<a href="#t10:32" class="time">10:32</a>
wwoods	f13: ah. yes.	<a href="#t10:32" class="time">10:32</a>
f13	mether: Apple also doesn't really give you much of a choice on using a filesystem that their tools wouldn't support.	<a href="#t10:32" class="time">10:32</a>
wwoods	I'll make some noise on test-list	<a href="#t10:32" class="time">10:32</a>
Lovechild	mether: I'm just saying before we have said tools in a shape users can operate and that integrates with the system. No users are realistically using it so defacto we don't have that capability	<a href="#t10:32" class="time">10:32</a>
f13	mether: We have far too many choices that makes trying to create easy to use tools a nightmare as they would only work part of the time.	<a href="#t10:32" class="time">10:32</a>
mether	f13: I suggested long back to drop the rest of the filesystems we kind of allow	<a href="#t10:33" class="time">10:33</a>
wwoods	f13: they used to let you install to UFS	<a href="#t10:34" class="time">10:34</a>
Lovechild	mether: They didn't give enough information to actually triage the problem nor even exclude user error.. attempts to get more information is so far unsuccessful	<a href="#t10:34" class="time">10:34</a>
wwoods	except if you did, it totally screwed your system	<a href="#t10:34" class="time">10:34</a>
wwoods	ahh, 10.0	<a href="#t10:34" class="time">10:34</a>
wwoods	fun times	<a href="#t10:34" class="time">10:34</a>
mether	Lovechild: I send them a mail	<a href="#t10:35" class="time">10:35</a>
wwoods	there are other bugzilla changes (3.0 wooo) but those are a while off	<a href="#t10:35" class="time">10:35</a>
mether	Lovechild: err, I will send them	<a href="#t10:35" class="time">10:35</a>
wwoods	oh! if there are bugzilla interfaces (XMLRPC etc) that you need, *please* send me an email	<a href="#t10:35" class="time">10:35</a>
wwoods	so I can let dkl know what interfaces we use, so we can be sure those get ported	<a href="#t10:35" class="time">10:35</a>
Lovechild	mether: well maybe they are just ignoring me so maybe if you tried	<a href="#t10:36" class="time">10:36</a>
mkanat	wwoods: I was just reading the spec for all that, the other day. :-)	<a href="#t10:37" class="time">10:37</a>
mether	Lovechild: live cd installations have all worked successfully for me. So I was just wondering if there was a problem that commonly occured that I didnt know about.	<a href="#t10:37" class="time">10:37</a>
mkanat	wwoods: I was chatting with dkl about it since I'm in charge of the WebService, upstream.	<a href="#t10:37" class="time">10:37</a>
wwoods	mkanat: oh excellent!	<a href="#t10:37" class="time">10:37</a>
mkanat	Well, kind of in charge of it.	<a href="#t10:37" class="time">10:37</a>
wwoods	"in charge" like "you were the last one to touch it! it's yours now!"	<a href="#t10:37" class="time">10:37</a>
wwoods	?	<a href="#t10:37" class="time">10:37</a>
mkanat	wwoods: LOL. Well, like I wrote a lot of it so it's mine by default.	<a href="#t10:38" class="time">10:38</a>
mkanat	wwoods: A lot of Bugzilla is that way, for me. :-D	<a href="#t10:39" class="time">10:39</a>
wwoods	I know how that goes. Well, awesome. Glad to know you'll be involved in that process.	<a href="#t10:39" class="time">10:39</a>
mkanat	wwoods: Indeed. :-) You can feel free to ask me about things or suggest things to me, also.	<a href="#t10:40" class="time">10:40</a>
wwoods	But yeah, I know FESCo and the pkgdb and such use some xmlrpc stuff, so I'll need to mention this to them as well	<a href="#t10:40" class="time">10:40</a>
mkanat	Any Fedora QA person is free to ask me about Bugzilla, as long as it's not like, some hours-long explanation thing. :-)	<a href="#t10:40" class="time">10:40</a>
f13	I don't know what xmlrpc calls I need to make, I just know tasks I wish to complete	<a href="#t10:40" class="time">10:40</a>
wwoods	f13: right, well, you're OK then. I just need to make sure that the interfaces that some of the tools use stick around	<a href="#t10:41" class="time">10:41</a>
f13	like package reassignment, that would do a bugzilla query, find all instances of bugs of a package assigned ot the previous owner, to reassign them to the new owner.	<a href="#t10:41" class="time">10:41</a>
wwoods	(or the tools get change right quick)	<a href="#t10:41" class="time">10:41</a>
wwoods	I'm trying to write a wiki page about using Bugzilla in Fedora	<a href="#t10:41" class="time">10:41</a>
wwoods	there's some stuff that we haven't written down that people should know	<a href="#t10:42" class="time">10:42</a>
mkanat	wwoods: You could link that from the New Bug page, too.	<a href="#t10:42" class="time">10:42</a>
wwoods	e.g. we ignore pri/sev, we only pay attention to a few bug states, etc.	<a href="#t10:42" class="time">10:42</a>
wwoods	oh good call.	<a href="#t10:42" class="time">10:42</a>
mkanat	wwoods: It's just [% IF product = 'Fedora' %] I think, in 2.18.	<a href="#t10:42" class="time">10:42</a>
mkanat	In 3.0 it'd probably be [% IF product.name = 'Fedora' %] .	<a href="#t10:43" class="time">10:43</a>
wwoods	Very cool. I'll try to get that set up once we have a page to refer to	<a href="#t10:43" class="time">10:43</a>
wwoods	going back to the rollback discussion for a second	<a href="#t10:44" class="time">10:44</a>
wwoods	for the F9 cycle I want to focus more on helping people use the tools we've got	<a href="#t10:44" class="time">10:44</a>
wwoods	rather than making new tools	<a href="#t10:44" class="time">10:44</a>
wwoods	something that does full filesystem rollbacks is a really good example - we already have lvm support for that, just need a good (or merely acceptable) interface	<a href="#t10:45" class="time">10:45</a>
wwoods	same for, like, a tester tool that shows what you've installed recently, lets you roll back to the stable/previous version, etc	<a href="#t10:46" class="time">10:46</a>
wwoods	on a package level	<a href="#t10:46" class="time">10:46</a>
wwoods	we already have support for all that stuff in the tools (bodhi, yum, etc) but it needs an interface and docs	<a href="#t10:46" class="time">10:46</a>
wwoods	so I expect to spend most of the next six months working on docs on how we do stuff	<a href="#t10:46" class="time">10:46</a>
wwoods	and tools that improve those processes	<a href="#t10:46" class="time">10:46</a>
wwoods	stuff like SNAKE and Beaker and Apport will have to wait (or get picked up by other interested parties)	<a href="#t10:47" class="time">10:47</a>
wwoods	so there's the Grand Vision. what that means in concrete terms is probably something like: more bug days and working on stuff we've got	<a href="#t10:48" class="time">10:48</a>
wwoods	and if we have time, making little GUIs for the things we do all the time anyway	<a href="#t10:48" class="time">10:48</a>
wwoods	like yum upgrades and downgrading packages and showing what the common bugs are	<a href="#t10:48" class="time">10:48</a>
wwoods	okay, enough vague philosophy talk	<a href="#t10:49" class="time">10:49</a>
wwoods	yawn city. getting near the end of the hour.	<a href="#t10:49" class="time">10:49</a>
Lovechild	I'd ve very sad to see apport fall to the wayside, sadly I'm not capable of picking it up	<a href="#t10:49" class="time">10:49</a>
wwoods	quick recap: I'm mailing test-list about a Bug Day on Dec. 3 and upcoming changes to bugzilla (devel->rawhide, removing test releases)	<a href="#t10:50" class="time">10:50</a>
wwoods	Lovechild: yeah, although I think there's a lot of potential for someone to merge apport + packagekit + bugbuddy	<a href="#t10:50" class="time">10:50</a>
wwoods	combine that with standardized bugzilla 3.0 web services and you'd have a sweet tool that works for everyone evverywhere	<a href="#t10:50" class="time">10:50</a>
Lovechild	wwoods: oh please don't end the meeting like that, now my floor will be all covered in drool	<a href="#t10:50" class="time">10:50</a>
wwoods	without so much distro-specific cruft stuffed into it	<a href="#t10:51" class="time">10:51</a>
wwoods	basically I'd like to see bugbuddy use PK to get debuginfo, and use some of the ideas from apport about bug retracing and making hashes of tracebacks to auto-find dupes	<a href="#t10:52" class="time">10:52</a>
wwoods	so if someone wants to talk to the bug-buddy maintainer and drive that project, I'd be happy to provide advice	<a href="#t10:52" class="time">10:52</a>
wwoods	but mostly we need to work on getting more people testing updates and rawhide	<a href="#t10:53" class="time">10:53</a>
wwoods	and triaging bugs	<a href="#t10:53" class="time">10:53</a>
wwoods	anyway. sorry. oh, qa-list is basically closed	<a href="#t10:53" class="time">10:53</a>
wwoods	(it's strange that mailman doesn't have a "close list temporarily" checkbox)	<a href="#t10:54" class="time">10:54</a>
wwoods	you can use bodhi's RSS feeds to track new package updates	<a href="#t10:54" class="time">10:54</a>
lmacken	test notifications will go away soon	<a href="#t10:54" class="time">10:54</a>
lmacken	i'm almost done with the captcha code to allow anonymous feedback	<a href="#t10:54" class="time">10:54</a>
wwoods	cool!	<a href="#t10:54" class="time">10:54</a>
wwoods	I'm working on adding info about bodhi to the QA docs	<a href="#t10:55" class="time">10:55</a>
wwoods	mether: are you going to track that firstboot bug?	<a href="#t10:55" class="time">10:55</a>
mkanat	wwoods: I think bug-buddy already supports standard Bugzilla webservices, too.	<a href="#t10:55" class="time">10:55</a>
mkanat	wwoods: I know that GNOME was working on it, at least.	<a href="#t10:55" class="time">10:55</a>
wwoods	mkanat: niiiice.	<a href="#t10:55" class="time">10:55</a>
wwoods	so yeah, teach it to install debuginfo packages (where applicable) and we'd be most of the way here	<a href="#t10:56" class="time">10:56</a>
mkanat	wwoods: Yeah, GNOME is totally interested in that, too.	<a href="#t10:56" class="time">10:56</a>
mkanat	wwoods: They had some discussion about it, maybe you could grab somebody from there about it.	<a href="#t10:56" class="time">10:56</a>
mkanat	wwoods: Or I could grab somebody for you.	<a href="#t10:56" class="time">10:56</a>
wwoods	that would be very cool	<a href="#t10:56" class="time">10:56</a>
wwoods	in theory it's totally dead simple with BuildIDs in Fedora	<a href="#t10:57" class="time">10:57</a>
mkanat	wwoods: Cool. I've pinged Olav Vitters, we'll see if he's around.	<a href="#t10:57" class="time">10:57</a>
wwoods	you can just look at a header in the core and it'll tell you all the debuginfo you need	<a href="#t10:57" class="time">10:57</a>
wwoods	if we set up the debuginfo building properly you'd just have to do yum install [list of buildids straight from corefile]	<a href="#t10:58" class="time">10:58</a>
wwoods	but yeah, distro-specific hooks for installing debuginfo would be completely grand	<a href="#t10:59" class="time">10:59</a>
poelcat	wwoods: is this in the plans for F9? <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureApport">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureApport</a>	<a href="#t10:59" class="time">10:59</a>
wwoods	poelcat: no	<a href="#t10:59" class="time">10:59</a>
poelcat	wwoods: i'll remove the target release if you like :)	<a href="#t10:59" class="time">10:59</a>
wwoods	Unless someone else wants to own it	<a href="#t10:59" class="time">10:59</a>
wwoods	Basically I think the ideas in Apport are sound, but it's something that should go into upstream tools	<a href="#t11:01" class="time">11:01</a>
wwoods	the current implementation is very ubuntu-y. very brown.	<a href="#t11:01" class="time">11:01</a>
wwoods	okay. is there anything else people wanted to discuss?	<a href="#t11:02" class="time">11:02</a>
wwoods	let's consider this meeting over, then. thanks for your time, everyone	<a href="#t11:03" class="time">11:03</a>
wwoods	Bug Day Monday! Don't forget!	<a href="#t11:04" class="time">11:04</a>
wwoods	ooh maybe we should do pulseaudio bugs	<a href="#t11:04" class="time">11:04</a>
* joejaxx is happy he was able to attend one :D		<a href="#t11:04" class="time">11:04</a>
joejaxx	partially*	<a href="#t11:04" class="time">11:04</a>
wwoods	joejaxx: we're glad to have ya!	<a href="#t11:04" class="time">11:04</a>
wwoods	heh	<a href="#t11:04" class="time">11:04</a>
joejaxx	:)	<a href="#t11:04" class="time">11:04</a>

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