I18N/Meetings/2009-02-03

Fedora I18n meeting 2009-02-03

• 2009-02-03 0500 UTC on #fedora-meeting at Freenode

Agenda

• Features/IBus -- HuangPeng
• Yum conditional packages plugin -- JensPetersen
• Fonts repackaging: bug F11-new-font-rules
• i18n-team watchcommits mails -- JensPetersen
• useradd bug -- Pravin Satpute
• Open floor
• Next meeting

Log

juhp	so welcome to today's fedora-i18n meeting	Feb 03 15:05
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juhp	who is here for the meeting?	Feb 03 15:05
paragan	hi	Feb 03 15:05
pravins	hi	Feb 03 15:05
phuang_	hi	Feb 03 15:05
sflanigan	G'day all.	Feb 03 15:05
jni_	juhp, hi	Feb 03 15:05
tagoh3	hi	Feb 03 15:05
Kaio	gday	Feb 03 15:05
juhp	okay hi all	Feb 03 15:06
juhp	the agenda is on the above page	Feb 03 15:06
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juhp	# Features/IBus	Feb 03 15:07
juhp	Features/IBus	Feb 03 15:07
dychen_	hi	Feb 03 15:07
juhp	so the current ibus release is in f11 alpha	Feb 03 15:08
juhp	phuang_: and maybe we will have some initial new ibus packages in rawhide for testing before too long?	Feb 03 15:08
warren	juhp: you mentioned that hangul is in the plans, are there similar missing functionality in other languages in the plans?	Feb 03 15:08
juhp	warren: anthy	Feb 03 15:09
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warren	juhp: where is this missing functionality written down?	Feb 03 15:09
juhp	I think some improvements are planned for pinyin	Feb 03 15:09
pravins	juhp: i saw rawcode also missing in ibus	Feb 03 15:09
Kaio	imho we need user preferences screen for engines	Feb 03 15:09
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juhp	warren: hmm bugzilla would be good - we should probably add some of the key items for f11 on the feature page too	Feb 03 15:10
juhp	some may already be in bugzilla or upstream I think	Feb 03 15:10
tagoh3	all of engines more or less has any tasks to be improved	Feb 03 15:10
tagoh3	I suppose	Feb 03 15:10
juhp	right	Feb 03 15:10
Kaio	phuang and I were just discussed about that this morning, I am asking if I could assist.	Feb 03 15:11
juhp	so quite a lot of work to do there and we are planning to put some more effort into that	Feb 03 15:11
juhp	Kaio: ok - which part do you have in mind?	Feb 03 15:11
Kaio	a general user preference framework in ibus	Feb 03 15:12
Kaio	which reuse current great imple of gconf connector codes	Feb 03 15:12
phuang_	some API for helping IME engine to develop setup UI.	Feb 03 15:12
juhp	okay	Feb 03 15:12
Kaio	yeah	Feb 03 15:12
juhp	sounds good then that is an important component	Feb 03 15:13
phuang_	Like generate UI from XML or ..	Feb 03 15:13
juhp	I guess	Feb 03 15:13
Kaio	I just got cvs access of ibus-table (thx jens), after I have applied wildcard patch to cvs, I will start dev that.	Feb 03 15:13
juhp	ok	Feb 03 15:14
Kaio	cj5 of ibus should be quite usable imho now	Feb 03 15:15
juhp	we have one month until f11 feature freeze	Feb 03 15:15
Kaio	thinking to incl cj3 also: most cj users still staying with cj3.	Feb 03 15:16
juhp	I am going to do some testing of the C code this week and see what the current status is	Feb 03 15:16
dychen_	phuang_: Isn't glade3 have that kind of thing?	Feb 03 15:16
phuang_	dychen_, It is not same with glade	Feb 03 15:16
juhp	Kaio: ok - we should separate the tables from the ime anyway	Feb 03 15:16
phuang_	the xml for glade describes the UI.	Feb 03 15:17
juhp	phuang_: dynamic GUI sounds quite involved though?	Feb 03 15:17
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phuang_	XML in ibus will only describe configurable items for engine	Feb 03 15:17
juhp	ok	Feb 03 15:17
phuang_	ibus will generate the UI and to show those items	Feb 03 15:18
juhp	and then generate config GUI for that?	Feb 03 15:18
juhp	ok	Feb 03 15:18
phuang_	yeah	Feb 03 15:18
juhp	that sounds doable I guess	Feb 03 15:18
tagoh3	how about layout?	Feb 03 15:18
phuang_	Could separate some items to some groups, and show them in different page or something	Feb 03 15:19
warren	Kaio: yes, user preferences for engines...	Feb 03 15:20
phuang_	like compiz's configure ui	Feb 03 15:20
tagoh3	GUI part sometimes needs to be adjusted by the hand. not sure how much it's capable to provide better UI	Feb 03 15:20
juhp	maybe can include some markup hints in the xml?	Feb 03 15:21
Kaio	I will refer scim. :)	Feb 03 15:21
phuang_	need design it carefully	Feb 03 15:21
tagoh3	phuang_: I'm afraid compiz's isn't better IMHO	Feb 03 15:21
dychen_	Um, do we have time to implement this before F11 beta freeze?	Feb 03 15:22
phuang_	dychen_, no	Feb 03 15:22
phuang_	dychen_, I think	Feb 03 15:22
juhp	so it may be an update post-GA even	Feb 03 15:23
juhp	okay I think we can move on unless there are some other points on ibus work?	Feb 03 15:23
dychen_	phuang_: Currently where does ibus stores setting for individual IMEs?	Feb 03 15:24
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phuang_	engines use ibus's API to save and load. ibus uses gconf as backend	Feb 03 15:25
juhp	# Yum conditional packages	Feb 03 15:26
dychen_	Thanks, phuang. :-)	Feb 03 15:27
juhp	I had hoped to have a bit more to report on this when I left it on the agenda	Feb 03 15:27
juhp	I am going to testing notting's script, hack on it a bit and then submit it to yum-utils for review, comments and hopeful inclusion	Feb 03 15:27
juhp	https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2009-January/msg00882.html	Feb 03 15:28
juhp	unfortunately I have been busy with other things like the next topic...	Feb 03 15:29
juhp	ok if no comments then let's go there	Feb 03 15:30
juhp	# Fonts repackaging	Feb 03 15:31
juhp	how are people doing on this	Feb 03 15:31
pravins	smc-fonts is done, i will do samyak-fonts soon	Feb 03 15:31
Kaio	I have finished liberation-fonts, cjkuni-fonts, and baekmuk-ttf-fonts	Feb 03 15:31
tagoh3	finished to work on sazanami-fonts. still discussing about the naming for VLGothic-fonts	Feb 03 15:31
juhp	aha	Feb 03 15:31
Kaio	liberation-fonts need to change meta-package to -compat, as per discussion	Feb 03 15:32
juhp	I spent some of Friday and yesterday updating thaifonts-scalable to thai-scalable-fonts with subpackaging - quite a bit of work but looks good now	Feb 03 15:32
rahulb	I am currently working on culmus font	Feb 03 15:32
juhp	okay	Feb 03 15:32
juhp	rahulb: how about lohit? :)	Feb 03 15:33
rahulb	culmus has 10 different families with 4 faces each	Feb 03 15:33
juhp	thaifonts has 9 families...	Feb 03 15:33
rahulb	lohit I will do with next release, with some bugfixes	Feb 03 15:33
juhp	ok	Feb 03 15:34
juhp	rahulb: this month, right?	Feb 03 15:34
rahulb	yep	Feb 03 15:34
juhp	cool	Feb 03 15:35
rahulb	I am expecting two major releases for lohit this month	Feb 03 15:35
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juhp	ok :)	Feb 03 15:35
juhp	https://bugzilla.redhat.com/showdependencytree.cgi?id=477044&hide_resolved=1	Feb 03 15:35
juhp	is the tracking bug for fonts updates	Feb 03 15:36
juhp	unfortuntately there are still 110 open in the distro	Feb 03 15:36
juhp	it is probably unlikely that all will be done in time for f11 but but all default installed fonts should (really must) be done I would say by beta hopefully	Feb 03 15:37
juhp	I will go through them and label the summaries and make the important ones block F11Target say	Feb 03 15:37
juhp	tagoh3: so what is the story on renaming VLGothic now?	Feb 03 15:38
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juhp	# i18n-team watchcommits mails	Feb 03 15:39
tagoh3	juhp: I'm bringing up if gothic should be in the package name.	Feb 03 15:39
tagoh3	as the family name	Feb 03 15:40
juhp	tagoh3: aha	Feb 03 15:40
juhp	with a hyphen?	Feb 03 15:40
tagoh3	right	Feb 03 15:40
juhp	VL-gothic?	Feb 03 15:40
juhp	or vl-gothic maybe?	Feb 03 15:40
juhp	vl-gothic-fonts hmm	Feb 03 15:40
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tagoh3	no, actually vlgothic-fonts vs vlgothic-gothic-fonts or -pgothic-fonts.	Feb 03 15:40
juhp	looks ok	Feb 03 15:40
juhp	ah yuck	Feb 03 15:41
juhp	hmm	Feb 03 15:41
juhp	actually they are both gothic	Feb 03 15:41
juhp	tagoh3: do you think VL will make any other fonts, one day?	Feb 03 15:41
tagoh3	how do we deal with the proportional fonts?	Feb 03 15:42
tagoh3	juhp: dunno.	Feb 03 15:42
tagoh3	juhp: they will do if they think it's necessary	Feb 03 15:42
juhp	tagoh3: is the discussion in bugzilla?	Feb 03 15:43
tagoh3	yeah	Feb 03 15:44
juhp	I can try to follow it	Feb 03 15:44
juhp	okay	Feb 03 15:44
juhp	tagoh3: hm his comment 10 looks sane to me	Feb 03 15:45
juhp	https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=477479#c10	Feb 03 15:45
buggbot	Bug 477479: medium, medium, ---, tagoh@redhat.com, ASSIGNED, Please convert to new font packaging guidelines	Feb 03 15:45
juhp	anyway we better move on	Feb 03 15:45
juhp	back to # i18n-team watchcommits mails	Feb 03 15:46
juhp	was about to say I need to get advice on this from fedora infrastructure and other sigs	Feb 03 15:46
juhp	to avoid or deal with the commit mails bouncing off fedora-i18n-bugs	Feb 03 15:47
juhp	wonder if there is interest to follow commits for i18n packages	Feb 03 15:47
*juhp really wishes wiki would make up their mind about using | or not in link markup		Feb 03 15:49
sflanigan	as in, commits to the cvs repository which contains spec files?	Feb 03 15:49
juhp	sflanigan: yes packaging commits	Feb 03 15:49
juhp	those bounce off the list currently	Feb 03 15:49
sflanigan	I've only got one package, but I wouldn't mind tracking commits to it. But I'd have to do some very heavy filtering, so I might just do without...	Feb 03 15:50
juhp	yeah	Feb 03 15:50
sflanigan	I think most people would only want to see a small number of packages' commits	Feb 03 15:50
juhp	well it would be a lot traffic than all fedora commits	Feb 03 15:50
juhp	sflanigan: true	Feb 03 15:51
sflanigan	lot less traffic, you mean? True.	Feb 03 15:51
juhp	one can request commit mail in pkg db	Feb 03 15:51
juhp	sflanigan: yes	Feb 03 15:51
juhp	luckily I am not subscribed any more	Feb 03 15:52
juhp	is it still fedora-extras-commits or was it renamed?	Feb 03 15:53
juhp	anyway...	Feb 03 15:53
sflanigan	I see that i18n-team is currently watching eclipse-nls. And you want to change this address to fedora-i18n-commits, or something like that?	Feb 03 15:53
juhp	right that is the issue/question	Feb 03 15:53
sflanigan	"watching" as in "watchcommits" I mean	Feb 03 15:53
juhp	and it is like that for all i18n packages	Feb 03 15:53
tagoh3	do we really want to watch anyway?	Feb 03 15:53
sflanigan	Well, given that pkg db can do watchcommits for individual users, would anyone want to watchcommits across all i18n?	Feb 03 15:54
juhp	well it might be less tedious subscribing to every package and new ones	Feb 03 15:54
juhp	but yeah I dunno	Feb 03 15:54
sflanigan	Well, if there's at least one person, it might be worthwhile. If you are that person, then there you go!	Feb 03 15:55
juhp	it wouldn't hurt (for me say) but probably too time-consuming	Feb 03 15:55
juhp	mmm, let me ponder a little more :)	Feb 03 15:55
tagoh3	sflanigan: he/she should just request on pkgdb to watch commits then	Feb 03 15:55
juhp	still curious what others do	Feb 03 15:56
juhp	tagoh3: they need approval though	Feb 03 15:56
juhp	and it is a bit tedious to track I guess	Feb 03 15:56
sflanigan	I would think that if you don't have time to click watchcommits against a particular pkg, you probably won't have time to read the commits either. Parallel scaling!	Feb 03 15:56
juhp	but yeah	Feb 03 15:56
juhp	sflanigan: probably also true :)	Feb 03 15:57
tagoh3	juhp: no effects to the package itself by just watching commits. otherwise pick them up from fedora-extras-commits with the certain filters.	Feb 03 15:57
juhp	tagoh3: (I think anyway)	Feb 03 15:57
juhp	yeah yeah	Feb 03 15:57
juhp	anyway need to do something to end the bouncing	Feb 03 15:57
sflanigan	I don't think anyone will have a strong opinion unless you force them to subscribe to the list in question.	Feb 03 15:58
juhp	I will ask around a bit and try and come up with something	Feb 03 15:58
sflanigan	;-)	Feb 03 15:58
juhp	heh lol	Feb 03 15:58
juhp	sflanigan: I mean ask what other fedora projects/sigs do about it	Feb 03 15:58
juhp	# useradd bug -- Pravin Satpute	Feb 03 15:59
juhp	https://alioth.debian.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=311367&group_id=30580&atid=411478	Feb 03 15:59
juhp	pravins: ?	Feb 03 15:59
pravins	juhp: yeah	Feb 03 15:59
pravins	i was interested discussing https://alioth.debian.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=311367&group_id=30580&atid=411478	Feb 03 15:59
juhp	utf8 usernames - nice ;o)	Feb 03 15:59
juhp	so we will need IM on gdm	Feb 03 16:00
tagoh3	heh	Feb 03 16:00
juhp	well guess it is inevitable eventually :)	Feb 03 16:00
juhp	hmm	Feb 03 16:01
tagoh3	it's not easy task to be done in only account management actually though	Feb 03 16:01
juhp	right	Feb 03 16:01
juhp	pravins: I think that is quite a big project - touching a lot of code	Feb 03 16:01
pravins	yeah, i think it might affect some others things also	Feb 03 16:01
juhp	definitely	Feb 03 16:02
juhp	some might say the current status quo is a feature :)	Feb 03 16:02
juhp	bit like ascii package names	Feb 03 16:02
juhp	I don't think unix has ever supported non-ascii usernames and groups, etc?	Feb 03 16:03
juhp	I wonder programs too	Feb 03 16:03
juhp	pravins: anyway curious what they will say...	Feb 03 16:04
pravins	juhp: yeah, i will discuss same thing with upstream	Feb 03 16:04
pravins	lets see what they says	Feb 03 16:04
juhp	pravins: any particular motivation for it?	Feb 03 16:04
juhp	okay	Feb 03 16:04
juhp	(other than the obvious?)	Feb 03 16:04
pravins	yeah, some linguist ask me he is not able to create username in his own language	Feb 03 16:04
pravins	s/some/one	Feb 03 16:05
juhp	aha	Feb 03 16:05
juhp	like on windows?	Feb 03 16:05
pravins	umm, i havent see that on windows though	Feb 03 16:06
tagoh3	juhp: this shouldn't be an issue on unix like os only since accounts usually relates to email address.	Feb 03 16:06
Kaio	windows used to allow non a-zA-Z0-9 as samba passwords	Feb 03 16:06
Kaio	seems not now	Feb 03 16:06
pravins	i gone through useradd code and in username valication it is not allowing other than ascii characters	Feb 03 16:07
juhp	pravins: but he can set with "chfn -f full-name username" or the users config tool	Feb 03 16:07
pravins	s/valication/validation	Feb 03 16:07
sflanigan	Wouldn't it be a bit hard to login using a non-ASCII username from, say, an internet cafes...?	Feb 03 16:08
sflanigan	an internet cafe. D'oh	Feb 03 16:08
juhp	pravins: you're after userid or fullname?	Feb 03 16:08
pravins	userid	Feb 03 16:08
rahulb	It is more a usability issue than validation check	Feb 03 16:09
juhp	pravins: I think fullname is sufficient?	Feb 03 16:09
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juhp	it will display in gdm and email etc	Feb 03 16:09
rahulb	even on consol or a less privilegged run level, it would be difficult to use non-ascii userid right now	Feb 03 16:10
pravins	aha	Feb 03 16:10
juhp	right	Feb 03 16:10
juhp	adduser -c ?	Feb 03 16:10
juhp	dunno	Feb 03 16:10
juhp	ok thanks	Feb 03 16:11
pravins	hmm	Feb 03 16:11
pravins	yeah, thanks	Feb 03 16:11
juhp	those are all the topics on the agenda	Feb 03 16:11
juhp	we can open for any other discussion	Feb 03 16:11
tagoh3	not for discussion but just fyi	Feb 03 16:12
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tagoh3	now trying to prepare new anthy with utf-8 dictionary	Feb 03 16:12
juhp	aha	Feb 03 16:12
tagoh3	still going to test it locally. hope will be available on rawhide shortly	Feb 03 16:13
juhp	cool	Feb 03 16:13
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juhp	tagoh3: is upstream working for that too?	Feb 03 16:13
tagoh3	yes, the latest version supports that	Feb 03 16:13
juhp	f11alpha should be out soon I guess	Feb 03 16:13
juhp	aha	Feb 03 16:13
Kaio	I am still looking for a hinting instruction list to improve liberation-fonts. If anyone knows that please let me know.	Feb 03 16:14
juhp	the next fedora-i18n meeting should be in two weeks time	Feb 03 16:14
juhp	Kaio: is it still true that just shipping .ttf would solve most of the problems with preseriving hinting or is that a different thing?	Feb 03 16:15
juhp	or you want to create new hinting?	Feb 03 16:15
Kaio	what I confirmed are, everything I have ever compared are same between shipped .ttf and latest .sfd	Feb 03 16:16
sflanigan	Have you established exactly what the complaints are about? eg manual hinting vs auto-hinting, something like that?	Feb 03 16:16
juhp	(quite a long meeting today so we should probably close shortly if there is nothing else to discuss)	Feb 03 16:16
Kaio	but there are still bug reports claiming that some hintings are brokwn	Feb 03 16:17
Kaio	lets discuss off this meeting :)	Feb 03 16:17
juhp	Kaio: coming from fontforge conversion?	Feb 03 16:17
juhp	okay	Feb 03 16:17
Kaio	I believed so	Feb 03 16:17
juhp	hmm	Feb 03 16:17
Kaio	but I dont deny if I missed sth in conversion	Feb 03 16:18
juhp	probably fedora-fonts-list is the best place to discuss this	Feb 03 16:18
Kaio	I asked dejavu people and I have no info about how they converted from ttf	Feb 03 16:18
Kaio	ok	Feb 03 16:18
juhp	good idea	Feb 03 16:19
juhp	okay let's close the meeting	Feb 03 16:19
juhp	thanks everyone for joining in	Feb 03 16:19
juhp	## meeting closed	Feb 03 16:19
tagoh3	thanks all	Feb 03 16:19

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