Meeting:Board meeting 2008-10-07

Fedora Project Board Meeting :: Tuesday 2008-10-07

Codecs

• followup: Board/Meetings/2008-09-30#Codecs_.282008-09-16.29
• ACTIONS:
  • spot - create the English page
  • quaid (and/or spot) - assign a page name under fp.o and file a Trac ticket at https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure
  • spot - give page to hughsie for PK inclusion

Trademark Update

• followup: Board/Meetings/2008-09-30#Trademark_Update_.282008-09-16.29
• Paul had several discussions with RH's attorney responsible for TM issues
• Spot and Paul have a conference call with him and outside counsel tomorrow afternoon.
• Counsel has seen They have seen the draft marks produced by Artwork
  • User:Pfrields/Secondary_trademark_design
• Spot and Paul will be hashing out the last of the issues with them, including licensing for the secondary mark.
• It would be really helpful if the mark was freely licensed, i.e. redistributable and modifiable

Board Q&A

• Handling of respins and source
• See more details in IRC log

IRC Transcript

stickster	Today we have two items on the agenda.	11:03
quaid	Paul is sitting at the back of a conference room :)	11:03
stickster	We'll take up to 10 minutes for each, and then move on to Q&A	11:04
stickster	First up, codecs: Board/Meetings/2008-09-30#Codecs_.282008-09-16.29	11:04
stickster	The action items up were for spot to correspond with the PackageKit upstream about Fedora-specific information,	11:06
spot	I did this, and we came up with a way to support this	11:06
stickster	and to make sure the bullet points of concern were handled properly in the workflow	11:06
spot	i need to make the webpage that PackageKit will point to	11:06
stickster	spot: And in your estimation do the new GStreamer deps + PackageKit properly deliver the desired results?	11:07
* stickster is somewhat leading the witness since he tried this in F10 Beta.		11:08
notting	spot: how does that webpage differ from the existing one?	11:08
spot	notting: if there is an existing one, i'll just update it	11:08
quaid	spot: btw, something occurred to me last night	11:08
spot	where is the "existing one"?	11:08
stickster	CodecBuddy	11:08
quaid	can we do a different URL than the wiki?	11:08
stickster	quaid: As in, move it to a proper web page under fp.o/ ?	11:09
quaid	we need to translate the content on the target page.	11:09
quaid	stickster: yes	11:09
stickster	Ah, good point that.	11:09
quaid	then Apache can detect the language and serve the right sub-dir	11:09
quaid	so it will be fp.o/$foo/ == en-US, and $foo/$lang/ == $lang	11:09
quaid	or something :)	11:09
* quaid carefully steps back from specifying the technical how, to leave it at the what		11:10
stickster	Right, in other words, just do what we do with our other pages on fp.o/ proper.	11:10
quaid	+1	11:10
* stickster notes that capability is already there and working well AFAICT		11:10
quaid	there is a freeze date for that content for l10n ...	11:10
f13	yes, ther eis	11:10
* stickster notes "fp.o" == "fedoraproject.org" for those listening in		11:11
quaid	2008-11-17	11:11
stickster	Sorry for using jargon, I'll try to keep it to a minimum.	11:11
f13	String freeze was at 9/11	11:11
quaid	as per http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-10/f-10-trans-tasks.html	11:11
f13	translation deadline is 10/21	11:11
spot	i'll write the english page. :)	11:11
quaid	spot: you can hand it off to ricky, we can come up with the suitable name and give that back to hughsie?	11:12
spot	hughsie just wants the URL	11:12
quaid	f13: I think that is string freeze for software, not fp.o	11:12
quaid	spot: that's what I mean	11:13
stickster	spot: quaid: We should be able to just assign a URL.	11:13
f13	quaid: ok, having different dates for both is a little confusing (:	11:13
quaid	we can decide that by today, looks like ricky is around	11:13
stickster	ricky will, I'm sure, be willing to file it wherever we ask him :-)	11:13
stickster	Trac ticket!	11:13
quaid	f13: well, we do need more time to finalize the marketing-type content, l10n is a staggered affair these days	11:13
stickster	OK, given what I see here, the follow up items are:	11:14
stickster	* spot - create the English page	11:14
stickster	* quaid (and/or spot) - assign a page name under fp.o and file a Trac ticket at https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure	11:14
stickster	* spot - give page to hughsie for PK inclusion	11:15
spot	wfm	11:15
stickster	Anything else?	11:15
stickster	spot: capital, my good man	11:15
stickster	Shall we move on?	11:15
mdomsch	FYI	11:16
mdomsch	https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=466014	11:16
mdomsch	gst-install-plugin-helper needs execstack, SELinux denials	11:16
stickster	D'oh!	11:16
f13	yeah, that's a fun one, especially given the browser presence	11:16
mdomsch	I put it on the blocker list	11:16
f13	oh wait, maybe I'm thinking of a different PK plugin	11:16
stickster	execstack, ugh.	11:17
mdomsch	ftl	11:17
stickster	Darn it, Dan Walsh was just sitting here	11:17
stickster	I'll hit him up for some know-how on this when we're done ;-)	11:17
stickster	OK, good point mdomsch, thanks.	11:17
quaid	he'll fix it during the next session and roll a new package, I bet	11:17
mdomsch	not dan's to fix	11:17
quaid	oh, sorry, just re-read that, yep	11:17
mdomsch	hughsie	11:17
* quaid smells wandering in to the weeds ...		11:18
stickster	mdomsch: Right, I just want to understand it	11:18
mdomsch	moving on	11:18
stickster	moving on?	11:18
quaid	+1	11:18
stickster	Next (and last) agenda item -- trademarks: Board/Meetings/2008-09-30#Trademark_Update_.282008-09-16.29	11:18
stickster	Update to status -- had several discussions with RH's attorney responsible for TM issues	11:19
stickster	Spot and I have a conference call with him and outside counsel tomorrow afternoon.	11:19
stickster	They have seen the draft marks produced by Artwork:	11:19
stickster	User:Pfrields/Secondary_trademark_design	11:19
stickster	We'll be hashing out the last of the issues with them, including licensing for the secondary mark.	11:20
stickster	It would be *really* helpful if the mark was freely licensed, i.e. redistributable *and* modifiable. The latter is a pretty hairy issue, it sounds like.	11:20
stickster	eof	11:21
stickster	Questions? Comments?	11:22
spot	fwiw, i plan to push very hard for it to be modifiable	11:22
spot	but it may be a showstopper	11:22
f13	stickster: keep up the good work? (:	11:22
stickster	ha	11:22
mdomsch	you mean the graphic that includes the word mark?	11:22
* quaid is quite pleased with all these trademark proceedings		11:22
spot	mdomsch: yes.	11:22
spot	the "icon"	11:22
mdomsch	good	11:22
stickster	mdomsch: yes, the "Fedora Remix" word design.	11:22
quaid	that would mean that *all* of the designs on that page	11:23
spoleeba	spot, is full modifiability is not possible.. will it be possible to layout specific ways it can be modified..say color for example	11:23
quaid	would be allowed remixes of the word mark	11:23
stickster	spoleeba: That *is* a possibility we will explore.	11:23
spoleeba	stickster, only after full modifiability is off the table	11:23
stickster	yes, of course.	11:23
spot	spoleeba: so, while that might be something we'd pursue, its worth noting that it would require a custom license for such a thing and it wouldn't be a free license.	11:24
stickster	We're not going to start by giving ground.	11:24
spoleeba	spot, right	11:24
quaid	question about word marks and visual graphics for them.	11:24
stickster	quaid: shoot	11:24
quaid	let's say we choose "fedora rem1x"	11:24
quaid	and a graphic to represent that	11:24
quaid	if I am writing "fedora rem1x" is _that_itself_ a usage of the 'mark?	11:24
quaid	in other wordds, I just remixed your word mark into ASCII	11:25
spot	"Fedora Remix" would be the mark.	11:25
spot	using the mark in ways that would confuse it would not be permitted	11:25
spot	the same way you couldn't call your linux distribution "Fuhdora"	11:25
stickster	If I understand correctly, "Fedora" is a trademark and "Remix" is not; but using the word "Fedora Remix" would read directly on the trademark	11:25
mdomsch	spot: would there be no way to police say nsfw-linux "a Fedora Remix" and a unique icon containing those words?	11:25
stickster	s/word/words/	11:25
spot	mdomsch: the guidelines cover that case.	11:26
spoleeba	quaid, looking at some of the graphics.. "Fedora Rem!x" would be the ascii version	11:26
quaid	spoleeba: looks all lowercase to me, though	11:26
stickster	Don't confuse the word *design* with the words.	11:26
quaid	so, am I violating RHT's trademark when I write "Redhat"?	11:27
quaid	violate isn't the right word ...	11:27
stickster	You're colliding with the usage, yes.	11:27
stickster	s/usage/\1 guidelines/	11:27
quaid	I'm not seeing the ground you are going to stand on to argue for a freely licensed word mark then?	11:28
spot	quaid: not the mark, the "image"	11:28
quaid	semantics	11:28
spot	no, it really is not	11:28
stickster	No, actually very different things.	11:28
quaid	the same argument that says I cannot write "Fudor4" applies	11:29
spot	no, it does not.	11:29
* quaid awaits the bolt of enlightenment		11:29
spot	quaid: http://spot.livejournal.com/299409.html?thread=1333905#t1333905	11:29
spot	that thread might help.	11:30
stickster	So these questions are of usage as opposed to the overall progress toward establishing a useful secondary mark	11:31
stickster	We can probably debug this on FAB and use this time for any community questions	11:32
* quaid is OK with that		11:32
stickster	Although it seems like there are not many queued up right now.	11:32
stickster	So what I've captured is:	11:32
stickster	* spot and stickster - meet with Da Law (yers)	11:33
stickster	(and report back.)	11:33
stickster	Anything to add?	11:33
stickster	Move on to questions, then?	11:33
spot	sure.	11:34
ctyler	+1	11:34
stickster	OK, spevack, let 'er rip!	11:34
spevack	ok	11:34
spevack	only one question right now	11:34
spevack	to make up for last month's onslaught :)	11:34
spevack	Southern_Gentlem wants to know if it is ok for the FreeMedia group to send the respins (which include updates) to the requestors, because in many cases the people requesting don't have bandwidth to begin with, which is why they are asking for FreeMedia.	11:35
spevack	Consensus among the FreeMedia people seems to be that they like the idea, but wanted to see if the board had any objections	11:35
spevack	EOF	11:35
f13	I wouldn't have any objection, the age old question remains though, do we send them source media along with the binary?	11:36
mdomsch	or have a way for them to request (or clearly _not_ request) such when they request the binary CDs	11:36
spoleeba	mdomsch, wouldn't it be safest to have an opt out of source?	11:37
stickster	If we're posting media to someone (i.e. sending by postal mail) we really *should*. And by *should*, I mean we may have to unless they specifically ask that we *not* do it.	11:37
mdomsch	spoleeba, yes	11:37
f13	(sorry for derailing this issue)	11:37
mdomsch	Southern_Gentlem, can the use choose which they want?	11:38
mdomsch	original or respin?	11:38
f13	back on topic, I don't see a problem with providing respins, so long as the recipient clearly knows ahead of time that they're getting a respin, and not the official Fedora release.	11:38
spevack	inode0 says that they send out source on request	11:38
spevack	and Southern_Gentlem reports that the respins also provide the source	11:39
* spevack thinks that it's probably time for someone to just check in with the current FreeMedia leadership and see if there's any process improvements needed in general.		11:39
stickster	spevack: I think Free Media probably should revisit this in favor of an opt-out rather than an opt-in, but maybe spot wants to weigh in...	11:39
spevack	This is something I promised Thomas chung I would do, but I haven't gotten to it yet	11:39
* spot doesn't want to weigh in.		11:40
stickster	heh	11:40
stickster	spevack: I'll be happy to do that	11:40
mdomsch	I'd like the requestor to be able to say "I want the respin" or "I want the original"	11:40
notting	yeah, but we probably should at least *offer* the source	11:41
mdomsch	but after that, as source is provided too, no problems here	11:41
notting	oh wait, n/m	11:41
spevack	stickster: how about whichever of us has the extra cycles first gets to it, and take into account mdomsch's suggestion as well as the opt-out idea.	11:41
stickster	spevack: you're on	11:41
* spevack kicks up his feet and orders another pina colada		11:41
spevack	stickster: well, that was the only question/comment/topic from the #fedora-board-public room	11:42
stickster	Wow.	11:42
spevack	stickster: though one guy offered to ask knock knock jokes if you had to avoid dead air	11:43
spoleeba	stickster, ill make sure to stir up some controversy by the next meeting	11:43
stickster	I'll drag out the knock knock banana joke, it'll slay 'em.	11:43
stickster	spoleeba: Please. Don't.	11:43
stickster	:-)	11:43
* stickster sees that the f-marketing-l still has the election issue discussion underway per last week's new business.		11:44
* stickster moves to let that ride until next week		11:44
* ctyler seconds that		11:44
spoleeba	and thats it for me..out of time	11:45
spevack	inode0 also wanted to be on the record as thanking those responsible for the rebirth of the Fedora Reloaded podcast	11:45
spevack	EOF from me	11:45
quaid	be careful or we'll start chatting about random stuff and _create_ controversy.	11:45
stickster	spevack: Oh yes, Skirlet and Klaatu, right?	11:45
quaid	awesome	11:45
* stickster gives gratuitous shout-out		11:45
stickster	OK, with that, I think we're moved to adjourn. Aye's?	11:45
f13	I	11:46
spot	eye	11:46
* quaid points at his eye		11:46
ctyler	aye	11:46
stickster	clown shoes.	11:46
mdomsch	+1	11:46
stickster	OK everyone, thanks for coming to this uncharacteristically short Board meeting!	11:46

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