SIGs/Education/Meetings/2009-01-14

Meeting Agenda

01. Current status
      * where are we right now?  why? what do we want to achieve?
02. ToDos list 
03. testing/ user feedback
04. target release date
05. documentation
06. getting more ppl 
07. current status of the logo 
08. fixing dates for next meeting

• • irc log **

21:28:58 <sdziallas> okay, folks, my watch says it's time... let's get this party started! 21:29:34 <sdziallas> the agenda is here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Education/Meetings/2009-01-14 21:29:46 <sdziallas> now how about a quick roll call? who's here? 21:29:56 <rdieter> yo 21:30:20 * tomeu (n=tomeu@89-24-113-11.i4g.tmcz.cz) has joined #fedora-edu 21:30:40 <sdziallas> tomeu: :) 21:30:40 * hanthana here 21:30:49 * ongolaBoy (n=chatzill@196.202.239.205) has joined #fedora-edu 21:31:23 <tomeu> hi all 21:31:36 <sdziallas> Hi! (just in time for the roll call ;) 21:31:38 <hanthana> hi tomeu :) 21:32:09 <sdziallas> well, sounds like we could just move on following the agenda...: CURRENT STATUS 21:32:51 <sdziallas> so let me put it this way: some preliminary work on an education spin has been done, here's the wiki page for it: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Education/EducationLive 21:32:59 <hanthana> appreciate if we can introduce, at list FAS name 21:33:01 <hanthana> ;) 21:33:42 <rdieter> good idea, Rex Dieter, rdieter 21:34:02 <tomeu> I'm a sugar developer, Tomeu Vizoso, tomeu 21:34:10 * sdziallas was too quick - as usual. ;) 21:34:12 <hanthana> Danishka Navin, fas: snavin 21:34:21 <hanthana> sdziallas: no worries ;) 21:34:29 <sdziallas> you should know me: Sebastian Dziallas, sdz 21:34:35 <hanthana> ha ha 21:35:06 <sdziallas> okay? 21:35:07 <hanthana> any other attendees? 21:35:16 <hanthana> sdziallas: go ahead 21:35:50 * ongolaBoy is just a visitor interested in education matters... 21:36:06 <sdziallas> :) 21:36:14 <rdieter> ongolaBoy: welcome 21:36:20 <hanthana> hi ongolaBoy :) 21:36:59 <sdziallas> there we go! as I said, we've started. there's a table in the wiki, listing some applications, I've drafted some kickstart files up, and well: 21:37:36 <rdieter> how'd xcfe vs kde go? need more beer to decide? 21:37:40 <sdziallas> I've currently two builds around here, one is KDE-based, the other one uses XFCE. 21:38:06 <sdziallas> I think that's the decision we need to make first. and now. 21:38:17 <sdziallas> To give you a quick overview: 21:39:18 <sdziallas> The KDE spin currently only includes Qt4-based software, since I wouldn't want kdelibs3 being pulled in. It includes a number of apps, but not all (yet) - e.g., I didn't add krita (or another Gimp alternative), yet. 21:39:27 <sdziallas> It's size is right now 636 MB. 21:40:28 <sdziallas> The XFCE one is pretty much complete, includes some other apps, due to its GTK-nature. But you get at least kdeedu on both. That spin has right now a size of 666 MB, even though I've one or two ideas for further apps. 21:40:49 <sdziallas> I feel it's clear enough that we're not going to release both. 21:41:22 <sdziallas> So what we need is a decision, on how we're going to proceed. 21:41:27 <hanthana> we need at least 20MB for re-spin for other locales, so xfce is my choice 21:41:58 <hanthana> coz, xfce spin contain more apps than kde spin 21:43:27 <sdziallas> As I said, I can work with both. I just need some feedback here. I'm personally using partly XFCE on the OLPC, but this doesn't prevent me from using KDE or something else (as Sugar ;). 21:43:52 <ongolaBoy> for which people do you intend to release this spin ? 21:44:49 <rdieter> ongolaBoy: good question, we don't have a clearly targetted audience, mostly for lack of feedback (ie, not sure what people want/need). 21:45:14 <sdziallas> It's for students, but also for teachers, pupils and schools - though, we're not going to put gcompris on it, because its intended for pupils under our target age. I'd tend to talk about something like an age of 12+... 21:45:30 * rdieter is indifferent wrt xfce vs kde, might be interesting to explore something new/different with xfce. 21:46:04 <ongolaBoy> personaly i prefer xfce because of the low machines that i have in my environment... 21:46:06 <sdziallas> rdieter is right there: in the past, we've been doing what we thought would fit people's needs best. but due to a lack of feedback, it turned out, that it was not always the best... 21:46:39 <ongolaBoy> but i suggest you to release what you, the developpers, want to do 21:47:43 <sdziallas> yeah, that's also why I want us to talk about it. but the better we can fit people's needs, the better for us, as developers, because our stuff becomes - hopefully - more used ;) 21:48:08 <sdziallas> so I think... we'll have a closer look at the xfce spin?! 21:48:18 <hanthana> so, guys lets fix xfce as the spin 21:48:23 <ongolaBoy> so, if i was able to vote ;) i prefer xfce 21:48:43 <hanthana> +1 xfce 21:48:44 <sdziallas> okay, I'll take a note and update the spin's page in the wiki with an updated list. 21:49:45 * ctyler_ has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 21:50:01 <tomeu> about sugar, better wait until there's better support for unmodified apps 21:50:07 <tomeu> next release, hopefully 21:50:41 <rdieter> there's already a sugar spin anyway, isn't there? 21:50:42 <sdziallas> tomeu: yeah, in the meantime, we have the sugar spin (which I hope to get approved soonish, too) 21:50:50 <sdziallas> heh. *hint* :) 21:51:06 <rdieter> that said, perhaps there could be merging here 21:51:45 <tomeu> yeah, I guess it will be very difficult to have a single spin good for all ages 21:52:10 <sdziallas> yep, that's true. we can't target everyone without... bloating it for someone. 21:52:42 <sdziallas> (neither sugar nor kdeedu is imo bloat, but I'd like to select apps, too) 21:53:02 <tomeu> you can keep focusing now on 12+ and do something else later for <12 21:53:48 <ongolaBoy> +1 for +12 21:54:22 <sdziallas> yeah, I feel we should consider something on behalf of how those spins will be working together (or who they're targetting)... 21:54:56 <sdziallas> I'll make another note on that in the wiki / meeting summary. 21:55:37 <sdziallas> does anybody want to add something to the current state or can we move on? 21:56:24 <sdziallas> I'll take that as a no ;) 21:56:30 <sdziallas> Well, what needs to be done? 21:57:06 <sdziallas> The spin needs some polishing: I'll update the kickstart file and will - once it's somehow ready - submit it to the Spin SIG for technical approval. 21:57:27 <sdziallas> Next steps are then approval from the board and finally from rel-eng. Those are the steps... concerning policy. 21:57:51 <hanthana> sdziallas: before that shall we do a small user testing? 21:58:03 <sdziallas> What else do we need? Imo, feedback, feedback, and still more feedback... 21:58:12 <hanthana> by giving the spin to selected people [students and teachers] 21:58:27 <sdziallas> (which brings us also to point 03 on the list - they go hand in hand, I think) 21:58:57 <sdziallas> hanthana: I think it might be a good idea - not necessarily before submitting it to Spin SIG, but I think such a testing can't be too bad. So a +1 here. 21:59:20 <ongolaBoy> 'hand in hand' should be the fastest way to have feedback from users 21:59:29 <hanthana> i can help for that 21:59:35 <sdziallas> We might think about a fitting time (frame) here, but we can run such a test in parallel. 21:59:43 <hanthana> as i have contacts with local Edu officials 21:59:44 <sdziallas> Yeah, ongolaBoy! 21:59:52 <sdziallas> hanthana: that would be great! 22:00:21 <hanthana> lets fix a time frame for 1st feedback 22:00:22 * ongolaBoy has a low internet connection :( 22:00:38 <sdziallas> Btw: For any inofficial - pre-release spins - we need a possibility to host it somewhere. (If you don't want to build it everytime on your own) 22:00:44 * sdziallas checks F11 schedule 22:00:44 <hanthana> i mean, lets give them one week for testing/playing 22:01:28 <sdziallas> hanthana: a week or so would be fine with me, maybe two, but not more, since we also need some time for the results and working on it... 22:01:39 <hanthana> yeah 22:02:03 <hanthana> sdziallas: lets ready for one week, 22:02:13 <sdziallas> okay! 22:02:18 <hanthana> they might take another week if they want 22:02:24 <sdziallas> (another note for me and the wiki ;) 22:02:28 <sdziallas> sounds good to me. 22:02:59 <sdziallas> next question: when do we want to start this? Here's the schedule for F11: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/11/Schedule 22:03:22 <sdziallas> Feature freeze is at the beginning of march. 22:04:07 <hanthana> 2009-04-14 - Final Development Freeze 22:04:12 <sdziallas> I need some time for preparing the kickstart, then it needs to be built. And then, we let the testing run for a week or so, right? 22:04:19 <hanthana> lets target march 22:04:21 * heffer (n=felix@fedora/heffer) has joined #fedora-edu 22:04:48 <sdziallas> for testing? or for having something really working ready? 22:05:05 <hanthana> really working ready 22:05:24 <sdziallas> (this doesn't prevent us from working on pre-release stuff, either.) 22:05:27 <hanthana> sdziallas: i would like to start testing before February 22:06:23 <sdziallas> any objections or additions here? we might need to use a F10 base then for testing; Rawhide might be too buggy. 22:07:35 <ongolaBoy> the 'final' release should rolled out with f11 right ? 22:07:45 <rdieter> I can help host a spin 22:07:47 <hanthana> yes 22:07:53 <hanthana> rdieter: cool 22:07:55 <rdieter> for testing, that is. 22:08:06 <sdziallas> rdieter: that would be great :) 22:08:25 <hanthana> i am also trying to locally host 22:08:48 <hanthana> here we have schooNet, and University Network 22:09:27 <rdieter> I can be a torrent seed/tracker is what I had in mind. 22:09:44 <rdieter> hanthana: you? 22:10:57 <rdieter> as a side note, I finally dropped the f9-edu preview spin that had been hosted for quite awhile, nope nobody minds... 22:10:59 <hanthana> rdieter: i am planning for direct download and hand to hand distribution 22:11:25 <rdieter> hanthana: cool, when/if that's available, let me know, and I'll add it as a web seed for the torrent 22:11:49 <sdziallas> rdieter: nope... that's more than okay ;) 22:12:03 <sdziallas> okay, this sounds like a good plan (having both)! 22:12:31 <hanthana> tomorrow i am talking to edu officials, regarding hosting and distributing of the test copy 22:12:52 <hanthana> and we need a creating a bugzilla component - ToDo 22:13:21 <hanthana> btw, sdziallas when we are going to start the testing? 22:13:38 <hanthana> lets fix a time duration now 22:14:01 * sdziallas hasn' checked out yet, how to do this; but I'll make a note regarding bugzilla, to look into this 22:14:44 <rdieter> I would venture that spin approval is a prereq for any bz component creation, but I could be wrong 22:14:45 <sdziallas> well... I don't need a long time for preparing the kickstart file (so somebody wants further apps on it - *that* is the time to suggest them, to get 'em tested) ;) 22:15:09 <sdziallas> *if somebody wants further apps... 22:16:01 <hanthana> shall we start from 25th Jan to 7th Feb 22:16:08 <sdziallas> rdieter: might be true. if necessary, I can ask around ;) 22:16:59 <sdziallas> hanthana: I'm fine with that. 22:17:35 <sdziallas> leaves us enough time to make sure we're not distributing bad stuff to the testers and is still way enough before march. 22:17:36 <sdziallas> +1 22:18:47 <sdziallas> any objections? if not, I'll add that to the wiki after the meeting, too. 22:19:11 * ongolaBoy has nothing to add ... 22:19:31 <sdziallas> okey dokey. (just want to make sure everybody's happy) 22:19:39 <hanthana> heh 22:20:03 <sdziallas> what else there is left? documentation? an artwork? 22:20:32 <hanthana> 04. Marketting plan for spreading fedora edu spin 22:20:52 <sdziallas> marketing is good. :) 22:20:59 <hanthana> Marketting plan for spreading fedora edu spin 22:20:59 <hanthana> workshops, seminas, installFest, etc 22:20:59 <hanthana> Fedora edu - tshirt for those who working for the project ;) 22:21:17 <sdziallas> w00t! 22:21:52 <hanthana> i do ..... workshops, seminas, installFest, etc 22:21:57 <ongolaBoy> concerning Artwork, is it possible to ask to Nicu and his friends to create special stuff off edu 22:22:17 <sdziallas> I've... submitted a request for artwork some time ago: 22:22:24 <ongolaBoy> but i don't know how you communicate between team in general ... 22:22:27 <rdieter> most definietely possible, couldn't hurt to ask the fedora-art team, they're usually quite good at delivering 22:22:33 <sdziallas> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/DesignService#Fedora_Education 22:23:04 <sdziallas> but that was ages ago - I recieved a wiki banner from tatica, but I didn't add it yet, since I felt... it would need to be discussed with her / the artwork team first. 22:23:12 <hanthana> sdziallas: we need a poster/ Boucher 22:23:40 <sdziallas> I also asked for special artwork for our spin, such as a wallpaper, but: work in progress, afaik ;) 22:23:42 <sdziallas> yeah! 22:23:53 <rdieter> would probably help if someone volunteered to lead the art effort, and potentially poke/prod/bribe them 22:25:27 <sdziallas> yeah, well, I can go and update the request quite a bit... I'm a bit lazy about poking 'em, but I could do that. (hopefully, I don't forget) ;) 22:25:32 * sdziallas makes another mental note. 22:26:53 <sdziallas> okay? anything else on behalf of artwork? nope?... 22:27:13 <ongolaBoy> sdziallas:at least for artwork, update your request by replacing kde by xfce... 22:27:16 <hanthana> sdziallas: 'adding a wallpaper ' grate idea!! 22:27:39 <sdziallas> ongolaBoy, yeah; will do. it's quite outdated there, I know... 22:27:54 <sdziallas> okay :) 22:28:01 <hanthana> do we need CD/DVD cover? 22:28:09 <hanthana> stickers? 22:28:54 <sdziallas> maybe later on, yeah. and some flyers couldn't hurt either. But partly general Fedora stuff should be fine, too. 22:29:02 * sdziallas loves our t-shirts :) 22:29:47 <hanthana> we can add Edu spin promotion with F11 release 22:30:15 <sdziallas> (for which we need rel-engs approval, but I'll take care of that) 22:31:24 <sdziallas> okay? can we move on here? (sorry if I'm rushing a bit) 22:31:34 <ongolaBoy> . 22:31:40 <hanthana> ok 22:31:43 <hanthana> next! 22:31:57 <hanthana> Documentation: 22:32:05 <hanthana> HowTos related to the Fedora Education Spin. 22:32:05 <hanthana> for an example; 22:32:05 <hanthana> 'How to install Edu Spin to the system?' 22:32:05 <hanthana> 'How to install other software using Fedora repo?' 22:33:18 <sdziallas> the latter one should be more or less explained somewhere (I'd bet there are already howtos for this), but the first or 'which additional educational software can I get?' or 'what does this app offer me?' would be other examples... 22:34:10 * ctyler (n=chris@global.proximity.on.ca) has joined #fedora-edu 22:35:21 <sdziallas> this one could be worked out together with questions we might recieve from testing... 22:35:36 <hanthana> yes 22:35:43 <hanthana> good idea 22:36:23 <ongolaBoy> 'what package can i use for algebra,geometry,electronics,...?' 22:36:30 <sdziallas> exactly! 22:36:38 <hanthana> ongolaBoy: +1 22:37:11 <sdziallas> okay... anything else you want to discuss? 22:37:31 <hanthana> fixing dates for next meeting? 22:37:59 <sdziallas> well, that's our last task, before adjourning the meeting, I think ;) 22:38:18 <sdziallas> so if there's nothing more to discuss, I thing we can head for that, yeah. 22:39:06 <hanthana> 'getting more ppl ' we can achieve this during testing period 22:39:23 <sdziallas> yep, that's marketing, testing, all that... 22:39:47 <hanthana> we have to meet before starting the testing session 22:39:50 <sdziallas> honestly, I'm not sure, yet: next week would be the 21st. I think we should talk again before beginning the testing, touh. 22:39:56 <sdziallas> *though 22:39:58 <sdziallas> yep. 22:40:42 <hanthana> ok 21st fine for me 22:40:57 <hanthana> rdieter: ongolaBoy: sdziallas: any idea? 22:41:43 <sdziallas> well, let's note the 21st for the moment. I cannot promise that it will work for me, yet, but I think it should. 22:41:50 <sdziallas> (if the others agree) 22:42:03 <ongolaBoy> hum... i can't give a date because i'm not very available ;choose date that fit to you 22:42:11 <ongolaBoy> any date i mean 22:43:39 <sdziallas> okay? 21st for now? 22:43:53 <ongolaBoy> . 22:44:34 <sdziallas> there we go. we might reconsider it again, if it doesn't fit for anybody. well... is that it? are we done? 22:45:07 <hanthana> ok 22:45:31 <sdziallas> thanks everybody for attending! 22:45:45 <hanthana> thanks all! 22:45:45 <sdziallas> :) 22:45:58 <hanthana> lets make a good spin for the community!! 22:46:03 <ongolaBoy> i appreciate your efforts 22:46:19 <sdziallas> yeah! :) 22:46:22 <sdziallas> so I'd say... 22:46:23 <sdziallas> 5 22:46:23 <sdziallas> 4 22:46:24 <sdziallas> 3 22:46:26 <sdziallas> 2 22:46:27 <sdziallas> 1 22:46:32 <sdziallas> 1/2 22:46:32 <ongolaBoy> :D 22:46:37 <hanthana> .009 22:46:41 <hanthana> .0009 22:46:43 <sdziallas> = meeting adjourned =