Meeting:Docs IRC log 20090423

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:00:00] <jjmcd> Does anyone know how to do that IRC formatting thingie and can post the log?

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:00:19] Quit hpachas-PE has left this server ("Saliendo").

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:00:30] <jjmcd> oooh kayyy, I guess I'll learn

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:00:44] <jjmcd> <meeting><title>Fedora Docs Meeting</title>

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:01:04] <jjmcd> Sparks won't be here and I don't have ops so you won't see the channel topic changing

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:01:08] Join openpercept has joined this channel (n=openperc@unaffiliated/openpercept).

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:01:22] <jjmcd> Looks like many of the perps are missing

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:01:43] * rudi is here

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:01:49] <jjmcd> Before we get started on the agenda, we had a RelEng meeting today, no real show stoppers

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:02:10] * joat is lurking nearby

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:02:16] <jjmcd> I see a few of the usual suspects, but many are missing

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:02:17] <ianweller> oh look a meeting

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:02:19] * laubersm is here (mostly)

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:02:29] <jjmcd> Good, laubersm you are on the agenda

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:02:35] <laubersm> I am?

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:02:54] <jjmcd> Anyway, rawhide builds are going slowly on account of the delta rpms, but so far no real show stoppers

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:02:55] Join radsy has joined this channel (n=irc@nat/redhat/x-ada7def238096e41).

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:02:56] <laubersm> link?

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:03:17] <jjmcd> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Thursday_Apr_23_2009_.28Wed_US_Time.29

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:03:47] <jjmcd> There is an issue with logging on to updated systems they want us to make sure we catch on the common bugs page

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:04:20] <jjmcd> No other real news from RelEng ... on to f-r-n

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:04:39] <jjmcd> Release notes went out Tuesday for preview

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:05:08] <jjmcd> I noticed an issue with Oriya language and laubersm apparently had some issue there too. Can you explain laubersm?

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:05:33] <laubersm> The only problem I had was one that occured in another lang also

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:05:48] <laubersm> it loks like something fuzzy being transalated or something left over from F10

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:06:12] <laubersm> They were including an xref to another section that does not exist and was not in the english string

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:06:16] <jjmcd> OK, so not some tagging issue?

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:06:34] <laubersm> it is tagging - but it does not hit an error until after a build.

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:06:42] <jjmcd> Ahhh, OK. I noticed that Oriya crashes yelp, but it also does that in F10

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:07:03] <jjmcd> And there is a bug for yelp that sounds similar, but not specific to Oriya

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:08:08] <jjmcd> So for preview at least, it looks like we are done with release notes. Any further on RNs?

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:09:07] <jjmcd> OK, our next task is the preview announcement. They would like us to push the testing aspect a little harder.

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:09:29] <jjmcd> There is a relatively long time between Pr and GA, so more time to test

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:09:49] <jjmcd> Anyone interested in picking up the announcement? Due Friday.

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:10:30] <jjmcd> Don't everyone jump at once!

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:11:12] <jjmcd> Next thing on the schedule is pots for the guides, will all the guides have their pots for next week?

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:11:34] <jjmcd> is anyone here?

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:11:49] <jjmcd> ke4qqq: IG status?

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:12:30] <jjmcd> radsy: Security and SEL?

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:12:55] <radsy> selinux guide is going to be ready for peer review very soon

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:13:05] <radsy> in the next few days

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:13:40] <jjmcd> OK, so no pots next week I presume

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:13:53] <radsy> security-guide is still being discussed

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:13:58] <radsy> no

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:13:59] <rudi> jjmcd -- IG is already in translation

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:14:13] <jjmcd> rudi: excellent, thanks

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:14:34] <jjmcd> danielsmw: User guide status?

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:15:05] <rudi> jjmcd - I'm about an hour away from completing the UG conversion to XML

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:15:26] <jjmcd> Ahhh, excellent. Are you doing that manually or using a tool?

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:15:29] <rudi> Will be ready to create a Transifex branch straight after that

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:15:43] <rudi> Manually.

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:15:55] <rudi> I don't know of a tool that works well enough

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:16:23] * jjmcd really wants to try mw-render but never any breathing room

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:16:39] <jjmcd> ianweller: what is the status of mwrender?

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:17:02] <ianweller> slowly coming out of a coma

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:17:23] <ianweller> not sure what's going on with the odfpy07 review, and a new patch from abadger1999 was pushed upstream

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:17:31] <ianweller> abadger1999 doesn't have any data to test with though

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:17:38] <rudi> The problem with any conversion *to* xml is that the converter can preserve the markup, sure. But cannot create the semantic meaning behind the markup.

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:17:46] Join warren has joined this channel (n=warren@redhat/wombat/warren).

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:17:59] <ianweller> so if someone can throw data at him and how to cause churning so he can debug stuff, that would be great.

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:18:19] <abadger1999> Yeah. I can keep fixing tracebacks one by one but that's a bit inefficient.

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:18:59] <jjmcd> rudi: Can we help that with more consistent wiki markup?

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[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:19:35] <jjmcd> abadger1999: I'm sure we can find data, are you looking to exploit specific issues?

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:19:58] <abadger1999> jjmcd: Whatever you do with mw-render.

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:20:10] <rudi> jjmcd - not really. There's no real way to distinguish that (for example), (italics) in one instance is because it's the name of an application, in another instance is the name of a button, or in another case is a choice on a menu.

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:20:38] <abadger1999> jjmcd: Upstream tested my patch and had a traceback with mw-render. I'm not even sure what the program does :-)

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:20:51] <jjmcd> ahhhh OK

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:20:59] <abadger1999> So what to try, data to try it with, what to expect.

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:21:17] <abadger1999> Then I'll test with my patch and odfpy-0.9 and fix any issues.

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:21:18] <rudi> I guess you could do it with classes, but then you lose pretty much all the advantage of a wiki, because you're basically coding raw HTML :)

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:21:33] <ianweller> rudi: you could set up templates and hack the parser to deal with those separately.

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:21:36] <jjmcd> rudi: A lot of our current markup has around packages for example, but I thought we had a <package> macro or template or whatever with MW now.

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:21:52] <ianweller> like Template:Menuchoice would result in Blah -> blah -> blah on the wiki

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:21:58] <rudi> True - but then, you're probably better off just coding XML anyway :)

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:22:16] <jjmcd> Well, except for gathering the contributors

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:22:53] <jjmcd> Problem basically is that XML sounds scarier than the wiki, even if it isn't

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:23:55] <jjmcd> So for now anyway, mw-render is an F12 or later thing I guess

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:24:06] <jjmcd> Anything else on the guides?

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:24:27] <rudi> jjmcd - agreed. But at the same time, the people who find XML scary are unlikely to learn the intricacies of a set of specific wiki templates and use them consistently, I think.

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:25:08] <jjmcd> rudi: Actually, I think the wiki actually *IS* harder than the XML, but XML/DocBook is a barrier

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:25:17] <rudi> The wiki is an awesome knowledge-capturing tool, but I don't know that it's ever going to give us much head-start on markup (although I'll be very happy to be proven wrong...)

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[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:26:09] <jjmcd> And to be honest, the manual translation really isn't all that painful, but still, auto would be nicer

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:26:13] <laubersm> It is more a mental thing for some reason - but you might get more people to learn wiki markup than both XML AND git - so maybe if

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:26:38] <laubersm> someone was to contribute to wiki and others markup it up with templates then mwrender did the heavey lifting as it move to git for publication...

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[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:26:54] <laubersm> rather than having to diff the wiki every day

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:26:58] <laubersm> and fix the xml

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:27:19] <jjmcd> Yes, I was thinking along those lines, too. And I forgot about git. That is even scarier for a new contributor

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:27:29] <laubersm> just a thought - for later and f12 :)

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:27:47] <jjmcd> perhaps a hackfest at FudCON/F12

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:27:51] <laubersm> btw - I agree that git and XML/Docbook/publican is easier

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:28:23] <jjmcd> But the emotional barrier, especially for git, is huge

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:28:36] <laubersm> odd but true

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:28:57] <jjmcd> OK, CMS. Is there anyone who can enlighten us on the zikula status? ke4qqq?

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:29:37] <jjmcd> nobody?

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:30:06] <laubersm> I saw a note from Simon that said he was busy but had not forgotten us :)

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:30:22] <jjmcd> Well, that is encouraging

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:30:31] <jjmcd> ianweller: Anything on wiki?

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:30:37] <ianweller> no :)

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:30:42] <jjmcd> ;)

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[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:31:07] <laubersm> ianweller, did you change the Packaging pages yet?

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:31:13] <ianweller> no :)

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:31:18] <ianweller> i'm working on wikibot

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:31:21] <ianweller> somewhat slowly, but hay

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:31:22] <ianweller> hey*

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:31:31] <laubersm> Add more help pages?

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:31:37] <laubersm> Get localization?

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:31:43] * laubersm runs and ducks

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[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:32:31] <jjmcd> renaming pretty much all done? So we can get after quaid and stickster

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:33:28] <jjmcd> and categorization of course

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:34:10] <laubersm> jjmcd, for DocsProject stuff? been done more weeks - someone needs to clean up what is left

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:34:18] * ianweller goes to the corner of the channel and rolls up into a little ball

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:34:24] <laubersm> hmmm --- been done for weeks --- is what I ment

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:34:51] <jjmcd> OK, good. I see the occasional page outstanding, but I suspect the wikiczar needs to lean on some other folks

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:35:05] <jjmcd> Perhaps we need to order him a bigger stick

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:35:17] <jjmcd> OK, one other thing sort of snuck up on us. There are 5 docs in f-r-n.rpm besides the RN's proper

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:35:54] <jjmcd> These are all using the doc utils. I suppose it is time to convert them to Publican too, since we seem to be running out of raw docbook docs

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:36:23] <jjmcd> Does anyone have a solution for creating the .omf files, besides brute force?

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:37:50] <jjmcd> Looking at the task list, it appears that all the items have names on them that aren't here, except for the 'all' tasks which are pretty much covered

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:38:14] <jjmcd> We are at the end of the list and it is pretty early, anything else?

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[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:38:45] <jjmcd> nobody?

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:38:51] <jjmcd> OK

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:38:54] <jjmcd> 10

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:38:59] <jjmcd> 9

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[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:39:33] <jjmcd> 2

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:39:36] <jjmcd> 1

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:39:41] <jjmcd> </meeting>

[Wed Apr 22 2009] [20:39:45] <jjmcd> Thanks everyone

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