From Fedora Project Wiki
Attendees
Agenda
Previous meeting follow-up
- [jlaska] - update fedora-qa privs so that viking_ice is on the default bcc
- Updated fedora-qa trac instance ... viking_ice is now in the default bcc list.
- [jlaska] - file a bunch of tickets to track wiki RFC's (requests for content) for debugging pages ... email list seeking volunteers after
- [jlaska] - update QA/Goals wiki document
In the news
Alpha Blocker Bug Day #1
Friday, July 17th https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-July/msg00239.html
Fedora 12 Test Day schedule
Schedule: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Fedora_12_test_days Test Day candidates: Releases/12/FeatureList Events to consider:
- Revisit of X drivers (e.g. nouveau)
- Anaconda F12 features
- Upcoming NetworkManager changes
- Audio test day
- ↑ https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Anaconda/Features/StorageFiltering
- ↑ https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Anaconda/Features/MDRaid
- ↑ https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Anaconda/Features/UICleanup
- ↑ https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/NetworkManagerIPv6
- ↑ https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/NetworkManagerSystemConnections
- ↑ https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/MoreNetworkManagerMobileBroadband
AutoQA - update from wwoods
https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa
Meeting time?
Open discussion
Upcoming QA events
- 2009-07-17 - Alpha Blocker Bug Meeting
- 2009-07-21 - BugZappers/Triage_days
- 2009-07-22 - 16:00 UTC - Next QA Meeting QA/Meetings/20090722
Action items
IRC Transcript
| poelcat | | we need to wrap up... I think QA meeting is next | Jul 15 12:00 |
|---|---|---|
| stickster | | poelcat: Thanks for that date, I didn't realize we'd passed the deadline at this poitn. | Jul 15 12:00 |
| * | adamw taps foot and looks at watch | Jul 15 12:00 | |
| jlaska | | hehe | Jul 15 12:00 |
| stickster | | OK, let's see if we can round up issues on list | Jul 15 12:00 |
| poelcat | | thanks everyone | Jul 15 12:00 |
| stickster | | Take it away QA! | Jul 15 12:00 |
| poelcat | | #endmeeting | Jul 15 12:00 |
| --- | zodbot has changed the topic to: Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting_channel for meeting schedule | Jul 15 12:00 | |
| zodbot | | Meeting ended Wed Jul 15 16:00:39 2009 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . | Jul 15 12:00 |
| zodbot | | Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-07-15/fedora-meeting.2009-07-15-15.00.html | Jul 15 12:00 |
| zodbot | | Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-07-15/fedora-meeting.2009-07-15-15.00.txt | Jul 15 12:00 |
| Sparks | | poelcat: Let's send out nasty grams today reminding people of their tasks and see where we are on Monday | Jul 15 12:00 |
| zodbot | | Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-07-15/fedora-meeting.2009-07-15-15.00.log.html | Jul 15 12:00 |
| * | adamw would like to clarify that his watch is not in fact on his foot | Jul 15 12:00 | |
| stickster | | heh | Jul 15 12:00 |
| jlaska | | it's how you keep such good rhythm I thought | Jul 15 12:01 |
| jlaska | | poelcat: do you guys need more time? | Jul 15 12:01 |
| dpravec | | hi all | Jul 15 12:01 |
| jlaska | | welcome dpravec | Jul 15 12:01 |
| jlaska | | we'll get started shortly | Jul 15 12:01 |
| jlaska | | #startmeeting | Jul 15 12:02 |
| zodbot | | Meeting started Wed Jul 15 16:02:09 2009 UTC. The chair is jlaska. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | Jul 15 12:02 |
| zodbot | | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. | Jul 15 12:02 |
| poelcat | | jlaska: no we are done and wouldn't want to degrade the quality of our next release :) | Jul 15 12:02 |
| jlaska | | haha | Jul 15 12:02 |
| jlaska | | rats, there goes my first excuse ;) | Jul 15 12:02 |
| adamw | | poelcat: don't worry, we can do that well enough on our own ;) | Jul 15 12:02 |
| poelcat | | lol | Jul 15 12:02 |
| jlaska | | #meetingtopic Fedora QA meeting | Jul 15 12:02 |
| --- | zodbot has changed the topic to: (Meeting topic: Fedora QA meeting) | Jul 15 12:02 | |
| jlaska | | #topic Gathering warm bodies | Jul 15 12:02 |
| --- | zodbot has changed the topic to: Gathering warm bodies (Meeting topic: Fedora QA meeting) | Jul 15 12:02 | |
| maxamillion | | lol | Jul 15 12:02 |
| jlaska | | okay ... we've got a few familiar faces already ... let's do a roll call | Jul 15 12:03 |
| * | jlaska | Jul 15 12:03 | |
| * | maxamillion | Jul 15 12:03 | |
| * | poelcat stays in his seat, hi | Jul 15 12:03 | |
| * | tk009 tk009 | Jul 15 12:03 | |
| * | wwoods cambot! gypsy! tom servo! and crooooooow! | Jul 15 12:03 | |
| * | kparal1 is here | Jul 15 12:04 | |
| adamw | | good job with the list then jlaska =) | Jul 15 12:04 |
| * | dpravec is here | Jul 15 12:04 | |
| jlaska | | uh oh ... the pressure is on ... good turn out today :) | Jul 15 12:04 |
| jlaska | | okay, we've got a hard stop today in 55 minutes (Fedora Belux meeting) | Jul 15 12:05 |
| jlaska | | let's do a quick recap from last week | Jul 15 12:05 |
| jlaska | | #topic Previous meeting follow-up | Jul 15 12:05 |
| --- | zodbot has changed the topic to: Previous meeting follow-up (Meeting topic: Fedora QA meeting) | Jul 15 12:05 | |
| * | jlaska hopes Viking-Ice is lurking | Jul 15 12:06 | |
| jlaska | | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Meetings/20090715#Previous_meeting_follow-up | Jul 15 12:06 |
| * | Viking-Ice jumps in a little late.. | Jul 15 12:06 | |
| jlaska | | Viking-Ice: sweet, welcome | Jul 15 12:06 |
| jlaska | | [jlaska] - update fedora-qa privs so that viking_ice is on the default bcc | Jul 15 12:06 |
| * | f13 | Jul 15 12:06 | |
| jlaska | | should be good there, Viking-Ice you should now be spamfull :) | Jul 15 12:07 |
| jlaska | | f13: welcome! | Jul 15 12:07 |
| jlaska | | Next up ... | Jul 15 12:07 |
| jlaska | | * [jlaska] - file a bunch of tickets to track wiki RFC's (requests for content) for debugging pages ... email list seeking volunteers after | Jul 15 12:07 |
| jlaska | | I filed just 3 so far for the 3 missing Debugging pages beland noted (see http://tinyurl.com/n6n24f) | Jul 15 12:08 |
| adamw | | i'm hoping to do some work on those | Jul 15 12:08 |
| jlaska | | Will send out a mail to the list letting folks know it's a good way to get involved | Jul 15 12:08 |
| jlaska | | adamw: thanks, there were some other pages beland noted could use improvement ... I haven't done anything with those yet | Jul 15 12:09 |
| adamw | | yeah, it's something i feel good about working on for sure, i have the resources and time for it again now | Jul 15 12:09 |
| jlaska | | Awesome | Jul 15 12:09 |
| * | adamw went back from 8.9" to 40" of monitor space =) | Jul 15 12:09 | |
| dpravec | | i will need to feed my 12 months old daughter during this meeting. i would love to move it to another day of week, if that is possible... wednesday is not easy for me (my wife is going away for few hours, its 18:09 here) | Jul 15 12:09 |
| jlaska | | dpravec: I've got a spot in the agenda to see if we can work up a new time | Jul 15 12:10 |
| dpravec | | if i do not respond quickly, you know why :) | Jul 15 12:10 |
| jlaska | | gotcha :) | Jul 15 12:10 |
| jlaska | | okay, next up ... my always present Goal topic ... | Jul 15 12:10 |
| maxamillion | | adamw: total side note, you getting native res on that vaio p yet? | Jul 15 12:10 |
| adamw | | maxamillion: pm | Jul 15 12:11 |
| jlaska | | * [jlaska] - update QA/Goals wiki document | Jul 15 12:11 |
| jlaska | | Spent some time on that this morning, but need to keep thinking about a good way to represent and allow for growth | Jul 15 12:11 |
| jlaska | | I'm not ready to toss it out for review yet ... but playing around with different methods in a draft page | Jul 15 12:12 |
| jlaska | | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Jlaska/Draft | Jul 15 12:12 |
| jlaska | | I'll keep playing throughout the week, if folks have input, feel free to get in touch with me | Jul 15 12:13 |
| jlaska | | that's it from me | Jul 15 12:13 |
| jlaska | | any other follow-up items folks wanted to discus from last week? | Jul 15 12:13 |
| f13 | | let me look at the agenda real quick again | Jul 15 12:14 |
| f13 | | well, we could talk about the changes to F12 schedule | Jul 15 12:15 |
| jlaska | | Okay, I'll add that to the news section | Jul 15 12:15 |
| jlaska | | #topic In the news - Fedora 12 QA schedule updates | Jul 15 12:15 |
| --- | zodbot has changed the topic to: In the news - Fedora 12 QA schedule updates (Meeting topic: Fedora QA meeting) | Jul 15 12:15 | |
| jlaska | | as f13 points out, a group of us gathered in fedora talk this week to hash out some ideas around QA milestones on the F12 schedule | Jul 15 12:16 |
| * | jlaska trying to find linky | Jul 15 12:17 | |
| jlaska | | https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-July/msg00241.html | Jul 15 12:17 |
| jlaska | | poelcat: summarized the outcome ... as listed in the email above | Jul 15 12:18 |
| f13 | | he also updated the schedule pages on his people pages | Jul 15 12:18 |
| f13 | | http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-quality-tasks.html | Jul 15 12:18 |
| f13 | | hrm, that seems not what you need. | Jul 15 12:19 |
| f13 | | oh, n/m. It shows the testing of things, just not when they're composed. | Jul 15 12:19 |
| * | poelcat hasn't done a recent review of the quality schedule... we discussed http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-releng-tasks.html | Jul 15 12:19 | |
| poelcat | | which overlaps w/ both | Jul 15 12:19 |
| poelcat | | though it should be correct | Jul 15 12:20 |
| adamw | | the schedule looks pretty good to me | Jul 15 12:20 |
| adamw | | lots of bug review days which i like :) | Jul 15 12:20 |
| jlaska | | the added bug days and agreement on the pre/post freeze composes is a huge plus for me :) | Jul 15 12:20 |
| jlaska | | so speaking of ... this is a good tie into the next topic ... | Jul 15 12:21 |
| jlaska | | #topic Alpha Blocker Bug Day #1 - Friday, July 17th | Jul 15 12:21 |
| --- | zodbot has changed the topic to: Alpha Blocker Bug Day #1 - Friday, July 17th (Meeting topic: Fedora QA meeting) | Jul 15 12:21 | |
| jlaska | | poelcat: sent out the reminder to f-test-list and f-devel-list ... https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-July/msg00239.html | Jul 15 12:21 |
| jlaska | | as you can see the list is completely empty right now ... which I don't think means we have no bugs | Jul 15 12:21 |
| jlaska | | https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=f12alpha | Jul 15 12:22 |
| buggbot | | Bug 507676: medium, low, ---, notting, NEW, Fedora 12 Alpha tracker | Jul 15 12:22 |
| adamw | | maybe we should look at all f12blocker bugs and see if any are appropriate to block f12alpha too | Jul 15 12:22 |
| adamw | | i've honestly just been thinking about f12blocker and not f12alpha... | Jul 15 12:22 |
| jlaska | | adamw: that's a good suggestion ... there was also talk about the F11target list which you already commented on I think | Jul 15 12:23 |
| adamw | | yeah, i don't have a massively strong opinion on that though. | Jul 15 12:23 |
| jlaska | | agreed, nor do I | Jul 15 12:23 |
| adamw | | i can take a few minutes today to go through f12blocker and put appropriate stuff on f12alpha too if you like, put that down as an action item | Jul 15 12:23 |
| jlaska | | https://bugzilla.redhat.com/showdependencytree.cgi?id=473303&hide_resolved=1 | Jul 15 12:23 |
| jlaska | | not too too bad | Jul 15 12:24 |
| jlaska | | so .. this raises the question for me, what type of issues constitute an Alpha blocker | Jul 15 12:24 |
| jlaska | | should we go by severity? | Jul 15 12:24 |
| poelcat | | semi-related... I drafted up https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Poelstra/blocker_bug_meeting_sop | Jul 15 12:24 |
| f13 | | don't we have alpha release criteria we could go by? | Jul 15 12:25 |
| jlaska | | I just see the standard https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/ReleaseCriteria page right now | Jul 15 12:25 |
| maxamillion | | I think https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=510033 should be a F12Alpha blocker | Jul 15 12:25 |
| buggbot | | Bug 510033: medium, low, ---, anaconda-maint-list, NEW, AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'name' | Jul 15 12:25 |
| adamw | | i think for alpha we should probably be going more or less by the critical path stuff | Jul 15 12:26 |
| adamw | | plus X, maybe? meh. | Jul 15 12:26 |
| jlaska | | adamw: that's a good way to tie it into recent proposals | Jul 15 12:26 |
| wwoods | | X is in the critical path. | Jul 15 12:26 |
| f13 | | X is in the critical path | Jul 15 12:26 |
| adamw | | oh ok. :) | Jul 15 12:26 |
| adamw | | wusses! | Jul 15 12:26 |
| jlaska | | ;) | Jul 15 12:26 |
| * | adamw has visions of ancient beardy types shaking fists | Jul 15 12:27 | |
| jlaska | | Do folks have any opinions on documenting what we should be keeping on the radar for the alpha? | Jul 15 12:28 |
| adamw | | well, my suggestion is - make it the critical path stuff. | Jul 15 12:28 |
| poelcat | | adamw: if there aren't many bugs to discuss on Friday... laying out the criteria would be a good thing to do | Jul 15 12:28 |
| * | poelcat won't be able to attend | Jul 15 12:28 | |
| jlaska | | adamw: yeah, I think limiting to the scope of components to critical path is a good thing | Jul 15 12:28 |
| jlaska | | but does that mean all bugs against critical path components, just urgent, panics etc... | Jul 15 12:29 |
| jlaska | | heck, I wonder if we should limit things to critical path for all milestones (and document how the criteria can be extended outside that scope) | Jul 15 12:29 |
| adamw | | i dunno, flying by the seat of my pants here. | Jul 15 12:29 |
| jlaska | | welcome to the club ;) | Jul 15 12:30 |
| jlaska | | I'd be willing to take a crack at documenting some guidelines, but I could use some help with that | Jul 15 12:30 |
| adamw | | i can think of some nice-in-theory approaches | Jul 15 12:31 |
| adamw | | we could just use the existing work and say 'critical severity bugs in in critical path packages'... | Jul 15 12:31 |
| jlaska | | hmm, that's actually good and fits ... KISS | Jul 15 12:32 |
| adamw | | but in practical terms i'm not sure it can be that simple. i mean, i'm looking through f12blocker on the side right now | Jul 15 12:32 |
| adamw | | and we see 486284 , which is the grub support for ext4 stuff | Jul 15 12:32 |
| jlaska | | which is a RFE right? | Jul 15 12:32 |
| adamw | | hmm, that's one way to square that circle, yeah | Jul 15 12:32 |
| adamw | | RFE's are different! | Jul 15 12:32 |
| adamw | | :) | Jul 15 12:32 |
| jlaska | | heh | Jul 15 12:33 |
| dpravec | | :) | Jul 15 12:33 |
| adamw | | well, we can try and go with a simple definition for now and get thornier from there =) | Jul 15 12:33 |
| dpravec | | i would also see all apps having manpages... iirc in debian this is serious bug... | Jul 15 12:33 |
| mcepl | | let me just jump in ... "all the bugs on the critical path" is too much IMHO ... there are tons of X bugs where Xorg just isn't. Are those alpha blockers as well? | Jul 15 12:33 |
| dpravec | | love to see* | Jul 15 12:34 |
| f13 | | and if you say critical severity of critical path packages, then we'd have to spend the day defining the criteria to make those bugs critical severity | Jul 15 12:34 |
| f13 | | because I'm sure most of them aren't. | Jul 15 12:34 |
| f13 | | or many are that shouldn't be. | Jul 15 12:34 |
| adamw | | we have critera for the severity ratings already. | Jul 15 12:34 |
| f13 | | mcepl: "all bugs" is wrong. | Jul 15 12:34 |
| jlaska | | f13: afaik ... severify is defined | Jul 15 12:34 |
| f13 | | defined yes, applied? | Jul 15 12:34 |
| f13 | | and does it truly match up with alpha release criteria? | Jul 15 12:34 |
| jlaska | | exactly, that's I think what we're working through | Jul 15 12:35 |
| adamw | | probably not 100% yet, but that's fine. what we mean is "bugs that are critical if the criteria are properly applied"... | Jul 15 12:35 |
| adamw | | yeah, that's what i'm not sure about yet. | Jul 15 12:35 |
| adamw | | the grub thing was my first obvious non-conformer, but as jlaska points out that's an rfe, and those are always tricky | Jul 15 12:35 |
| jlaska | | it's also tricky to do this pre-freeze ... but I think this is forcing us to ask these questions waaaay before we normally do | Jul 15 12:35 |
| jlaska | | which is good | Jul 15 12:35 |
| wwoods | | I kinda wish we had some brainstorm type thing that RFEs could go into | Jul 15 12:36 |
| mcepl | | f13: OK, is this https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=498457 Alpha blocker (to the best of my knowledge it is still the same in Rawhide as in F11)? | Jul 15 12:36 |
| wwoods | | to keep them out of bugzilla | Jul 15 12:36 |
| buggbot | | Bug 498457: urgent, low, ---, airlied, ASSIGNED, "radeon" driver fails on F11 Preview and Xpress 200M | Jul 15 12:36 |
| maxamillion | | I'm new to the QA meetings so its highly possible this is common knowledge, but what's the process to get a bug added to a blocker list? | Jul 15 12:36 |
| jlaska | | maxamillion: thanks for joining! | Jul 15 12:37 |
| adamw | | mcepl: i've been working for a while on the basis that bugs in a single specific piece of hardware are not 'critical', only 'high'...could probably codify that more explicitly in the severity policy | Jul 15 12:37 |
| adamw | | mcepl: because otherwise we'll just be drowning in critical X bugs | Jul 15 12:37 |
| wwoods | | maxamillion: if you're confident that it's actually a blocker (see definitions) then you just add the bug alias (e.g. F12Blocker) to the "Blocks:" field on your bug | Jul 15 12:37 |
| adamw | | the alias for f12 alpha is 'F12Alpha' | Jul 15 12:37 |
| mcepl | | adamw: yeah, that was exactly my point | Jul 15 12:37 |
| Jul 15 12:38:00<maxamillion> | jlaska: happy to be here :) ... mainly jumping in from the aspect of the Xfce SIG, that's my main focus at the moment but Fedora as a whole I'd love to help out as much as I am able | ||
| adamw | | mcepl: lemme see what we have written down about that in the policy atm | Jul 15 12:38 |
| * | mcepl is pull himself out of the discussion again | Jul 15 12:38 | |
| mcepl | | adamw: nothing | Jul 15 12:38 |
| mcepl | | IIRC | Jul 15 12:38 |
| maxamillion | | wwoods: are the blocker definitions in the wiki? | Jul 15 12:38 |
| jlaska | | maxamillion: that's sort of the discussion now | Jul 15 12:38 |
| Jul 15 12:38:47<maxamillion> | jlaska: ah | ||
| * | maxamillion misunderstood | Jul 15 12:38 | |
| mcepl | | adamw: just that there is no way how to make Xorg work for this card without quite particular changes in xorg.conf. | Jul 15 12:38 |
| jlaska | | no worries, as I see it ... trying to figure out a good way to help contributors know what a good blocker candidate bug is | Jul 15 12:39 |
| adamw | | mcepl: yeah, so by the current quite short stanza in 'how to triage' it should be urgent, i agree; i'll add a caveat about hardware-specific issues there | Jul 15 12:39 |
| wwoods | | maxamillion: current definition is, roughly, http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/ReleaseCriteria | Jul 15 12:39 |
| adamw | | mcepl: in practice i've been calling bugs like that 'high', not 'urgent' | Jul 15 12:39 |
| maxamillion | | wwoods: thank you | Jul 15 12:39 |
| jlaska | | okay ... let's summarize this topic ... | Jul 15 12:40 |
| jlaska | | * the current release criteria are located at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/ReleaseCriteria | Jul 15 12:40 |
| jlaska | | * For the Alpha, we've decided to evaluate bugs by severity:urgent and compoent in critial path packages? | Jul 15 12:41 |
| jlaska | | or is that still a proposal that needs hashing through? | Jul 15 12:41 |
| jlaska | | adamw: got a link to the severity definitions? I think my awesome bar still has the old draft link | Jul 15 12:41 |
| f13 | | mcepl: re that bug, this is where we start to apply "how many people does it hurt" thinking, as well as "how long until it can be fixed" | Jul 15 12:42 |
| adamw | | jlaska: there's two places: the How to Triage page - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers/How_to_Triage#Checklist_for_NEW_Bug_Triage (number 9) | Jul 15 12:42 |
| adamw | | that has the quick practical instructions | Jul 15 12:42 |
| adamw | | then the bug workflow page - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers/BugStatusWorkFlow - has more detailed policy | Jul 15 12:42 |
| adamw | | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers/BugStatusWorkFlow#Priority_and_Severity | Jul 15 12:42 |
| wwoods | | the release criteria can (and should!) be updated to better match reality and new policies/proposals | Jul 15 12:43 |
| wwoods | | they're not set in stone or anything | Jul 15 12:43 |
| adamw | | i have just added a quick exception to the how-to-triage page for hardware-specific issues | Jul 15 12:43 |
| jlaska | | okay ... so we'll go with the notes above for now. And likely adjust as needed | Jul 15 12:44 |
| jlaska | | if folks are interested in helping to define, feel free to drop me a line or send ideas to the mailing list | Jul 15 12:44 |
| jlaska | | #topic Fedora 12 Test Day schedule | Jul 15 12:44 |
| --- | zodbot has changed the topic to: Fedora 12 Test Day schedule (Meeting topic: Fedora QA meeting) | Jul 15 12:44 | |
| jlaska | | Just a quick blurb about F12 test days ... | Jul 15 12:44 |
| jlaska | | the schedule is light at this point still | Jul 15 12:45 |
| jlaska | | however, adamw and I have a few topics planned that haven't yet landed on the schedule | Jul 15 12:45 |
| adamw | | you may have to remind me about those, my brain is feeling lightly frazzled atm :) | Jul 15 12:45 |
| jlaska | | ... incoming ... | Jul 15 12:45 |
| jlaska | | I've got the full links in the minutes and on the discussion <tab> | Jul 15 12:46 |
| jlaska | | but what's being planned so far includes: | Jul 15 12:46 |
| jlaska | | * Revisit of X drivers (e.g. nouveau) | Jul 15 12:46 |
| jlaska | | * Anaconda F12 features | Jul 15 12:46 |
| jlaska | | o Storage cleanup [1] | Jul 15 12:46 |
| jlaska | | o RAID [2] | Jul 15 12:46 |
| jlaska | | o Partition UI cleanup [3] | Jul 15 12:46 |
| jlaska | | * Upcoming NetworkManager changes | Jul 15 12:46 |
| jlaska | | o IPV6 [4] | Jul 15 12:46 |
| jlaska | | o System-wide connections [5] | Jul 15 12:46 |
| jlaska | | o Mobile broadband updates [6] | Jul 15 12:46 |
| jlaska | | * Audio test day | Jul 15 12:46 |
| jlaska | | | Jul 15 12:46 |
| jlaska | | if folks have ideas or would like to pitch a test day topic ... let me or adamw know ... or send a suggestion to the team list (fedora-test-list) | Jul 15 12:47 |
| jlaska | | Dracut and Virtualization are already planned | Jul 15 12:47 |
| jlaska | | and thanks to Viking-Ice for his help in fleshing out test and debugging pages for dracut! | Jul 15 12:47 |
| adamw | | yeah that was awesome | Jul 15 12:48 |
| jlaska | | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Dracut/Debugging | Jul 15 12:48 |
| jlaska | | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Dracut/Testing | Jul 15 12:48 |
| jlaska | | okay ... 12 minutes remaining ... | Jul 15 12:48 |
| jlaska | | switching over to autoqa | Jul 15 12:48 |
| jlaska | | #topic AutoQA - update from wwoods | Jul 15 12:48 |
| --- | zodbot has changed the topic to: AutoQA - update from wwoods (Meeting topic: Fedora QA meeting) | Jul 15 12:48 | |
| jlaska | | wwoods: want to walk us through a brief update? | Jul 15 12:49 |
| wwoods | | sure | Jul 15 12:49 |
| wwoods | | So the first big milestone for autoqa is still the israwhidebroken.com project | Jul 15 12:49 |
| wwoods | | the first big chunk of that was writing the rawhide acceptance test plan | Jul 15 12:50 |
| * | kparal2 has rejoined because of broken internet connection, sorry | Jul 15 12:50 | |
| wwoods | | that's https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Rawhide_Acceptance_Test_Plan | Jul 15 12:50 |
| wwoods | | last week I finished writing the test cases | Jul 15 12:50 |
| jlaska | | kparal2: no worries, welcome back :) | Jul 15 12:50 |
| wwoods | | two of the test cases required some critical path work to be done first | Jul 15 12:51 |
| wwoods | | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Core_package_dependency_closure_test_case | Jul 15 12:51 |
| wwoods | | and https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Core_package_existence_test_case | Jul 15 12:51 |
| wwoods | | those test cases will probably change as we develop some tools for examining the critical path packages | Jul 15 12:51 |
| wwoods | | and then there's the two super-basic functional tests: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Network_basic_test_case | Jul 15 12:52 |
| wwoods | | and https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Yum_simple_update_test_case | Jul 15 12:52 |
| wwoods | | as described in the test plan, those are the two functional things we'll check before bothering with any other testing | Jul 15 12:52 |
| wwoods | | so don't get confused and think "this is all the testing they're doing?" | Jul 15 12:52 |
| wwoods | | this is just the set of things we have to test before the *real* testing can even start. | Jul 15 12:53 |
| wwoods | | so anyway - first versions of all the test cases are now complete and I'm starting to read up on autotest | Jul 15 12:53 |
| --- | oget_zzz is now known as oget | Jul 15 12:53 | |
| wwoods | | and write automated tests for these test cases | Jul 15 12:53 |
| wwoods | | using the autotest API | Jul 15 12:53 |
| wwoods | | more info about the tasks / progress can be found here: https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/milestone/israwhidebroken.com | Jul 15 12:54 |
| * | jlaska adds a blurb about cricital path to the test plan risks section | Jul 15 12:54 | |
| Viking-Ice | | Could we please not use this <code>blurp</code> and rather use <pre>blurp</pre> in the wiki when working with commands | Jul 15 12:55 |
| wwoods | | that doesn't work inside bulleted lists. | Jul 15 12:55 |
| maxamillion | | wwoods: http://autotest.kernel.org <-- is this the autotest you are talking about? | Jul 15 12:55 |
| wwoods | | or rather, it breaks numbered lists | Jul 15 12:55 |
| wwoods | | maxamillion: yes | Jul 15 12:55 |
| jlaska | | wwoods: cool, any other updates/concerns? | Jul 15 12:56 |
| Viking-Ice | | then let's not use it et al.. | Jul 15 12:56 |
| jlaska | | I've asked kparal2 to look at the test case tickets you've outlined too ... so he'll be trying to familiarize himself soon | Jul 15 12:56 |
| adamw | | actually, for commands you should use foobar
|
Jul 15 12:56 |
| f13 | | maxamillion: yes, I've been working on getting it packaged and deployed in Fedora infrastrcuture for our use | Jul 15 12:56 |
| adamw | | oh, that's just for one-word commands though | Jul 15 12:56 |
| Viking-Ice | | adamw: that equally sucks... | Jul 15 12:57 |
| adamw | | sorry. | Jul 15 12:57 |
| maxamillion | | f13: ah, awesome | Jul 15 12:57 |
| f13 | | any other colors we'd like the bike shed? | Jul 15 12:57 |
| wwoods | | jlaska: not really? things are going to get harder when we start trying to do the boot / installer / functional tests | Jul 15 12:57 |
| f13 | | or can we move on? | Jul 15 12:57 |
| adamw | | f13: puce! | Jul 15 12:57 |
| wwoods | | but we'll deal with that once some of the other autotest stuff is worked out. | Jul 15 12:57 |
| jlaska | | wwoods: yeah exactly | Jul 15 12:57 |
| jlaska | | Viking-Ice: perhaps an offline discussion around updating the usage of <code> in https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Help:Editing ? | Jul 15 12:58 |
| jlaska | | okay last topic ... | Jul 15 12:58 |
| jlaska | | with 2 minutes left | Jul 15 12:58 |
| jlaska | | #topic Updated meeting time | Jul 15 12:58 |
| --- | zodbot has changed the topic to: Updated meeting time (Meeting topic: Fedora QA meeting) | Jul 15 12:58 | |
| jlaska | | I'm sorry, but the meeting planner doesn't allow for more TZ's ... but here's what I'm looking at so far | Jul 15 12:58 |
| jlaska | | http://timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?month=7&day=15&year=2009&p1=0&p2=256&p3=207&p4=204 | Jul 15 12:58 |
| adamw | | was it bugzappers we did a matrix for before? | Jul 15 12:59 |
| jlaska | | I'd like to adjust the meeting a bit to accomodate dpravec's schedule better ... besides it's been @ 16:00 for too long now :) | Jul 15 12:59 |
| Viking-Ice | | who do need these time changes | Jul 15 12:59 |
| tk009 | | adamw: yes | Jul 15 12:59 |
| adamw | | ah, ok. so we don't have one for qa | Jul 15 13:00 |
| f13 | | jlaska: that would mean moving it earlier | Jul 15 13:00 |
| jlaska | | tk009: do you have a link? | Jul 15 13:00 |
| adamw | | jlaska: we should probably do the same as we did for bugzappers | Jul 15 13:00 |
| jlaska | | f13: another day or earlier | Jul 15 13:00 |
| f13 | | jlaska: I think at most I'd be comfortable one hour earlier | Jul 15 13:00 |
| adamw | | set up a matrix of possible times and see when works best for everyone | Jul 15 13:00 |
| tk009 | | I dont sorry, not on my machine | Jul 15 13:00 |
| adamw | | yeah, we really can't have it more than one hour earlier for those on the west coast | Jul 15 13:00 |
| adamw | | one hour earlier is 7am for us in winter | Jul 15 13:00 |
| jlaska | | adamw: rise and shine! | Jul 15 13:00 |
| Viking-Ice | | f13: does that fit the crappy daylight savings time or do we need to change it again later in the year? | Jul 15 13:01 |
| jlaska | | ugh, that'd be a wakeup call | Jul 15 13:01 |
| kparal2 | | maybe it could be changed depending on summer time? | Jul 15 13:01 |
| adamw | | Viking-Ice: at present we're not changing for dst | Jul 15 13:01 |
| jlaska | | we keep it UTC | Jul 15 13:01 |
| f13 | | Viking-Ice: as stated, an hour earlier puts it at 0700 during the winter here in the states | Jul 15 13:01 |
| adamw | | Viking-Ice: it's the same time in utc all year, which means for most people it moves one hour when dst hits | Jul 15 13:01 |
| jlaska | | okay, so I'll take an action to work up a matrix on the wiki and ask folks for their input | Jul 15 13:01 |
| f13 | | the only other day I have an early meeting is every other Tuesday | Jul 15 13:01 |
| adamw | | jlaska: if you go through the test-list archives you can probably find a link to the matrix example page | Jul 15 13:02 |
| jlaska | | hopefully we can find a time that can highlight availability for folks | Jul 15 13:02 |
| f13 | | so every other day either current time or less good one our earlier worksf or me | Jul 15 13:02 |
| jlaska | | adamw: yeah I recall seeing it a long while ago ... thanks I'll take a look | Jul 15 13:02 |
| adamw | | jlaska: oh, found it: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Bugzappers_meeting_matrix | Jul 15 13:02 |
| jlaska | | adamw: sweet, thx | Jul 15 13:02 |
| jlaska | | okay I'll work this up and ask folks to update sometime after the meeting | Jul 15 13:03 |
| jlaska | | #topic Open discussion | Jul 15 13:03 |
| --- | zodbot has changed the topic to: Open discussion (Meeting topic: Fedora QA meeting) | Jul 15 13:03 | |
| jlaska | | okay ... time for the word of the day | Jul 15 13:03 |
| jlaska | | 'Sassafras' | Jul 15 13:03 |
| jlaska | | jk ... are there any topics/concerns folks want to raise during the meeting? | Jul 15 13:04 |
| kparal2 | | i just have a question - how many RHEL guys participate in the Fedora test days? just to have the notion | Jul 15 13:04 |
| adamw | | depends on the topic | Jul 15 13:04 |
| adamw | | how do you mean 'rhel guys' exactly? | Jul 15 13:04 |
| kparal2 | | well, internal redhat employees, working in RHEL | Jul 15 13:05 |
| Viking-Ice | | Rebrand rawhide spins I think nirik push this to legal or some where else we need to keep an eye for it | Jul 15 13:05 |
| Viking-Ice | | on it I mean | Jul 15 13:05 |
| adamw | | kparal2: varies hugely by topic...some test days are essentially only _for_ that kind of person, but for something like, oh, nouveau test day, probably none | Jul 15 13:05 |
| f13 | | kparal2: that's quite hard to measure | Jul 15 13:05 |
| kparal2 | | ok | Jul 15 13:05 |
| jlaska | | Viking-Ice: oh thanks ... is there action needed by us on that topic, or is this something to keep on the radar? | Jul 15 13:05 |
| adamw | | Viking-Ice: what's our involvement in that? | Jul 15 13:06 |
| f13 | | kparal2: many "rhel guys" are Fedora users themselves, many are upstream developers who use Fedora as a deployment and test platform, and many use Fedora for next RHEL development | Jul 15 13:06 |
| Viking-Ice | | we make live cd for test day | Jul 15 13:06 |
| Viking-Ice | | do we need to rebrand them | Jul 15 13:06 |
| jlaska | | oh interesting | Jul 15 13:06 |
| jlaska | | ugh | Jul 15 13:06 |
| Viking-Ice | | exactly | Jul 15 13:06 |
| jlaska | | okay, will definitely keep an eye on that and update the livecd creation page if needed (https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Test_Days/Live_Image) | Jul 15 13:07 |
| jlaska | | Viking-Ice: thanks! | Jul 15 13:07 |
| Viking-Ice | | this is just plain stupid | Jul 15 13:07 |
| adamw | | Red Hat sues the Fedora QA group? :D | Jul 15 13:07 |
| jlaska | | awesome | Jul 15 13:08 |
| * | adamw sees spot bearing down on him with legal papers | Jul 15 13:08 | |
| Viking-Ice | | think xfce spin maxamillions case | Jul 15 13:08 |
| Viking-Ice | | rawhide spins that is | Jul 15 13:08 |
| jlaska | | right | Jul 15 13:08 |
| Viking-Ice | | and all spins sigs for that matter | Jul 15 13:08 |
| f13 | | well, given that Red Hat/Fedora is the copyright holder on Fedora, we can make a case that we're allowed to do things with the copyright/logo that others aren't necessarily allowed to do | Jul 15 13:09 |
| f13 | | so things like snapshots and test day isos would fall under allowed | Jul 15 13:09 |
| jlaska | | Any other topics/concerns to raise in the meeting today folks? | Jul 15 13:09 |
| --- | stickster is now known as stickster_food | Jul 15 13:09 | |
| maxamillion | | sorry, was side tracked by $dayjob | Jul 15 13:10 |
| jlaska | | maxamillion: no worries | Jul 15 13:10 |
| jlaska | | okay gang ... let's wrap it up for today | Jul 15 13:10 |
| jlaska | | I'll follow-up later today with minutes | Jul 15 13:10 |
| jlaska | | thanks everyone for your time :) | Jul 15 13:10 |
| jlaska | | #endmeeting | Jul 15 13:11 |
| --- | zodbot has changed the topic to: Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting_channel for meeting schedule | Jul 15 13:11 | |
| zodbot | | Meeting ended Wed Jul 15 17:11:04 2009 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . | Jul 15 13:11 |
| zodbot | | Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-07-15/fedora-meeting.2009-07-15-16.02.html | Jul 15 13:11 |
| zodbot | | Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-07-15/fedora-meeting.2009-07-15-16.02.txt | Jul 15 13:11 |
| maxamillion | | on the topic of the xfce rawhide spins, if there is a fedora controlled resource provided by the infrastructure team that I would be able to use to build and host the images such that I wouldn't be in violation of the trademark guidelines I would be very happy to do that | Jul 15 13:11 |
| zodbot | | Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-07-15/fedora-meeting.2009-07-15-16.02.log.html | Jul 15 13:11 |
| maxamillion | | crap | Jul 15 13:11 |
| * | maxamillion types too slow | Jul 15 13:11 | |
| jlaska | | maxamillion: apologies ... let's move things over to #fedora-qa for now | Jul 15 13:11 |
| maxamillion | | ok | Jul 15 13:11 |
| dpravec | | jlaska, sorry for afk, i think just moving it to monday or tuesday could fix the timing problem | Jul 15 13:13 |
| jlaska | | dpravec: okay thanks ... I'll follow-up with a link to the meeting matrix for folks to add their times | Jul 15 13:13 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!