QA/Meetings/20130722

Attendees

• adamw (85)
• kparal (24)
• Martix (17)
• tflink (12)
• brunowolff (6)
• drago01_ (5)
• nirik (4)
• zodbot (3)
• satellit_e (2)
• jskladan1 (1)
• robatino (1)
• pschindl (1)

Agenda

• Fedora 20 Change review
• Open floor

Fedora 20 Change review

• Changes/Bluez5 needs to be integrated smoothly with KDE 4.11 and GNOME 3.10 at least
• GNOME 3.10 is ported to Bluez5 and won't work with Bluez4, but KDE's libbluedevil is not yet ported to Bluez5 and may not be for a month: we would like FESCo to take a hand in dealing with that issue
• btrfs-by-default appears to be off the table again for F20
• Changes/AppInstaller may result in us using two depsolvers in official packaging tools
• Changes/VisibleCloud will likely require changes to criteria and extra validation testing
• Changes/SSD_cache may result in anaconda changes and changes to configuration of deployed systems with SSDs
• Changes/SDDMinsteadOfKDM replaces the login manager for KDE (one of the release-blocking desktops)
• Changes/Plasma-nm is another KDE change; looks like there's quite a bit of KDE churn for F20, we should probably test it a bit harder than usual
• Changes/InstallerLVMThinProvisioningSupport is a moderately significant change to partitioning in the installer
• We can look into the question of which Changes we should try and 'validate' once FESCo finishes approving them

Open floor

• Fedora 20 schedule, tape it to your fridge
• First F20 blocker review meeting was scheduled for this Wednesday (07-24): may happen or not depending on how many blockers are proposed

Action items

N/A

IRC Log

adamw	#startmeeting Fedora QA meeting	15:02
zodbot	Meeting started Mon Jul 22 15:02:28 2013 UTC. The chair is adamw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.	15:02
zodbot	Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.	15:02
adamw	#meetingname fedora-qa	15:02
zodbot	The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa'	15:02
adamw	#topic Roll call	15:02
adamw	morning folks!	15:02
* jskladan1 lurks from his cellphone		15:02
kparal	hi	15:02
adamw	who's around for qa meeting fun?	15:02
* satellit_e listening		15:03
* pschindl is here		15:03
* Martix is here		15:03
* tflink is here		15:04
* brunowolff is here		15:04
adamw	alrighty	15:05
adamw	anyone not here clearly doesn't like fun	15:05
kparal	boooo	15:06
adamw	before we leap into fedora 20 feature review, did anyone think of any major topics I'd forgotten?	15:06
adamw	okay then	15:06
adamw	#topic Fedora 20 Change review	15:07
adamw	so, there's a metric buttload of Changes so far proposed/accepted for F20, I put as many of them as I could find on the list at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Meetings/20130722#Fedora_20_Change_review	15:07
adamw	i've been following the devel@ discussions and I think a few of you have too	15:07
adamw	but wanted to check if we have any other concerns that haven't been raised yet with any of them	15:08
kparal	we probably should re-visit ARM, since it got half-accepted	15:08
adamw	well that's what last week was for	15:08
adamw	i wanted to avoid spending another hour in that bikeshed	15:08
adamw	but did you have something important to bring up about it?	15:08
kparal	somebody said he could send us some hw	15:09
kparal	since it got half-accepted, it might be a good time to have the hw	15:09
tflink	as a dev, the web assets feature concerns me a bit, but that has nothing to do with qa	15:09
adamw	kparal: take any hardware you can get your claws on, sure :)	15:10
Martix	adamw: I have some info about Bluez5 and it's integration with Gnome and KDE	15:10
kparal	adamw: so, who was the generous guy?	15:10
adamw	hmm? i thought you knew	15:10
kparal	nope. but I can read the logs	15:11
adamw	oh, you mean last week. sure	15:11
Martix	kparal: handsome-something?	15:11
adamw	that's j_dulaney	15:11
Martix	pirate?	15:11
kparal	I can ping John and ask about it	15:11
adamw	Martix: bluez5 isn't even listed as a Change, is it?	15:11
adamw	seems like maybe it ought to be	15:11
Martix	kparal: it is, I don't know if it was accepted	15:12
Martix	adamw: ^	15:12
tflink	would the kdump under secureboot affect anything other than kdump?	15:12
kparal	it might not be a bad idea to send the ARM hardware to Beijing, so that the guys there enjoy some change	15:12
Martix	adamw: not yet: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Bluez5	15:12
kparal	apart from x86/64 testing	15:13
kparal	but we can have it in Brno as well of course	15:13
adamw	Martix: oh, i don't see it on devel@...	15:13
adamw	tflink: I don't think so - that one's basically 'get something working that doesn't work now', aiui	15:13
kparal	adamw: the other thing that jumps up on me is AppInstaller with hawkey instead of yum	15:14
Martix	adamw: it was proposed, I saw it there	15:14
robatino	i take it BTRFS by default is off the table this time? it used to be discussed for each release but haven't heard anything this time	15:14
adamw	Martix: searching 'bluez' in devel archives just shows 'FYI: F20 Feature: Migrate to Bluez5', not an official thread from feature wrangler	15:14
kparal	robatino: after so many corrupted filesystems I would be very surprised :)	15:14
adamw	wonder if the wrangler's still working on it	15:14
adamw	robatino: that's a good question actually	15:14
adamw	always seems to be coming next release	15:15
brunowolff	I noticed that RHEL 7 is supposed to be using XFS by default.	15:15
brunowolff	It was in a roadmap presentation a month or so ago.	15:16
Martix	adamw: I talked to both Gnome and KDE about bluez5 migration and KDE support doesn't exist yet, but they can have it in a month	15:16
drago01_	adamw: gnome3.10 might move to bluez5	15:16
drago01_	adamw: so it might get in that way fyi	15:16
drago01_	brunowolff: how is this relevant for fedora?	15:16
Martix	drago01_: right, bluez is maintained by Gnome developer	15:16
adamw	drago01: well, the point is that if it's going in it ought to be listed as a Change, since it needs co-ordination with other c onsumers	15:16
drago01_	adamw: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Bluez5	15:17
brunowolff	It might indicate the amount of resources that Red Hat is willing to put into making BRTFS the default for Fedora.	15:17
brunowolff	If Red hat isn't pushing for it, it is much less likely to happen.	15:18
drago01_	Josef left Red hat a while ago	15:19
adamw	anyway, we're getting a bit distracted	15:19
adamw	#info https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Bluez5 needs to be integrated smoothly with KDE 4.11 and GNOME 3.10 at least	15:20
adamw	kparal: what was your concern about AppInstaller?	15:20
adamw	#info btrfs-by-default appears to be off the table again for F20	15:21
kparal	adamw: that we might end using two different dep solvers	15:21
kparal	*end up	15:21
adamw	I think fesco is considering that issue	15:21
kparal	it would definitely complicate verification	15:21
adamw	#info https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/AppInstaller may result in us using two depsolvers in official packaging tools	15:22
adamw	verification of what?	15:22
* nirik notes it will be in this week's fesco meeting. The current rule is only one.		15:22
kparal	of package installers working properly. I don't know.. for example install with yum and remove with AppInstaller, what happens?	15:22
kparal	I just wanted to note that there might be some issues lurking	15:23
kparal	but the criteria are written OK I think	15:24
adamw	oh, I see. the criteria focus mostly on installing *updates*	15:24
kparal	alright	15:25
adamw	i think what's complicating things at present is the unresolved conflict between gpk-update-application and offline updates, if this feature resolves that it might actually be a _win_ in validation terms	15:25
adamw	but yeah, something to keep an eye on	15:25
adamw	https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/VisibleCloud would have obvious deliverable and criteria consequences	15:25
kparal	if they keep both AppInstaller and gpk-update, we will have 4 ways to install updates :)	15:25
* kparal wonders if we have people to verify those cloud criteria, if they get written		15:27
adamw	is anyone super excited to do some cloud testing? :)	15:27
adamw	yeah	15:27
adamw	I know dgilmore keeps an eye on the cloud images	15:27
kparal	but we don't have people for xen etc verification anyway, so nothing new here	15:27
adamw	but we'd really want a couple of other people to help with testing if they're going official	15:27
tflink	I think it's important, but not sure I want to commit to anything	15:27
adamw	it doesn't require much in the way of special resources, though, i don't think	15:28
tflink	it might be worth noting that mattdm is having an intern work on automated cloud tests, or at least he was last time I spoke with him about it	15:28
adamw	#info https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/VisibleCloud will likely require changes to criteria and extra validation testing	15:29
adamw	I'm planning to file tickets for that stuff if the feature gets accepted, for the record	15:30
adamw	https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/SSD_cache looks pretty vague but could be significant if accepted, I guess	15:31
adamw	I think people on devel@ were confused about the scope of it	15:31
* satellit_e afk		15:31
adamw	anyone know anything about that one?	15:31
kparal	not a clue	15:32
tflink	me neither	15:32
adamw	guess we have to keep an eye on it then	15:33
brunowolff	It seems to need changes to ananconda.	15:33
adamw	nirik: has there been any fesco discussion of it yet?	15:33
nirik	don't think so. I think its this week? yeah, some anaconda changes, but not much else really.	15:34
adamw	#info https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/SSD_cache may result in anaconda changes and changes to configuration of deployed systems with SSDs	15:35
adamw	https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/SDDMinsteadOfKDM replaces the login manager for KDE (one of the release-blocking desktops)	15:36
adamw	should be no problem as long as it lands early enough to shake any bugs out	15:36
Martix	adamw: back, Gnome is ready for bluez5, KDE need port of libbluedevil, which will take a month...haddes (bnocera) will ask releng, if F20 can have both bluez4 and bluez5, but the problem is, it can't be installed side by side -> this could lead to broken deps when installing second desktop (Gnome and KDE)	15:36
adamw	https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/InstallerLVMThinProvisioningSupport is a semi-large change to partitioning in the installer - yay	15:36
adamw	Martix: that seems like a substantial issue	15:37
Martix	best approach is to port libbluedevil	15:37
Martix	adamw: anyway, I'm going to do Bluetooth test day when both desktops will be ready	15:39
adamw	nirik: can you take notes on the bluez issues for fesco? and maybe try to bang some gnome/kde heads together when the change comes up for discussion?	15:39
adamw	thanks for looking into it, martix	15:39
Martix	no problem :-)	15:40
nirik	sure, yeah, that seems non ideal	15:41
adamw	#info GNOME 3.10 is ported to Bluez5 and won't work with Bluez4, but KDE's libbluedevil is not yet ported to Bluez5 and may not be for a month: we would like FESCo to take a hand in dealing with that issue	15:42
adamw	https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Plasma-nm is another KDE change; looks like there's quite a bit of KDE churn for F20, we should probably test it a bit harder than usual	15:43
Martix	adamw: I can take care of it	15:43
adamw	thanks martix	15:43
Martix	I was looking for new Plasma-NM	15:43
Martix	*looking forward	15:44
adamw	i guess it'd be good to know the timeframe on that change too	15:45
* adamw fires off an email		15:45
adamw	okay...anything we missed?	15:46
adamw	#info we can look into the question of which Changes we should try and 'validate' once FESCo finishes approving them	15:46
adamw	okay, looks like that's it for Changes	15:48
adamw	#topic open floor	15:48
adamw	any other business, folks?	15:48
adamw	note that the first release blocker meeting is scheduled for Wednesday	15:49
tflink	say what?	15:49
adamw	uh huh	15:49
adamw	http://fedorapeople.org/groups/schedule/f-20/f-20-quality-tasks.html , tape it to your fridge	15:49
adamw	we can skip it if it's not worth doing	15:49
tflink	so we're doing blocker review meetings before all the features have been reviewed?	15:49
* nirik files a blocker bug on needing an extra month of time		15:49
adamw	tflink: i don't see that those two are particularly related	15:50
tflink	it's a good thing we don't have any major features proposed for F20, otherwise I'd be worried	15:50
adamw	we can review blockers so long as they've been proposed	15:50
tflink	adamw: criticism of the continued pretending that we're actually going to branch as scheduled and be successful	15:50
tflink	but then again, sarcasm doesn't work well over irc	15:51
adamw	i'm still not sure what it is you're trying to communicate, but point is, the 'f20' (rawhide) tree exists and is testable and we have nightly lives and installer images and stuff and people are testing them and filing blocker bugs, so we can review the blocker bugs. seems straightforward	15:52
adamw	the details of the development schedule seem not to be particularly significant to that process	15:52
* tflink is just frustrated, feel free to ignore him		15:52
adamw	roger!	15:52
adamw	i'd say schedule the meeting if it looks like anything would be achieved by reviewing the current proposed blockers, if not, don't.	15:53
adamw	#info first F20 blocker review meeting is scheduled for this Wednesday (07-24): may happen or not depending on how many blockers are proposed	15:53
adamw	anything else on anyone's radar?	15:54
adamw	well then...	15:56
* adamw sets quantum fuse for as many minutes as it takes his cat to eat a moth		15:56
adamw	thanks for coming, everyone!	16:00
adamw	#endmeeting	16:00

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