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< BugZappers | Meetings
Bug Triage Meeting :: 2008-10-07
Attendees
- jds2001
- John5342
- ke4qqq
- poelcat
- jlaska
- mcepl
- comphappy
NEW->ASSIGNED
- Should we change the definition of transition to ASSIGNED?
- Adding a keyword of Triaged seems to be the best alternative
- Most attendees believe that this problem is not pervasive enough to change the established process
- RESOLVED: revisit in a few months if this is really an issue
Greasemonkey Bugzilla Assist Scripts
- try out latest version from comphappy
- mcepl requests testing by @redhat.com users
FTBFS (Fails To Build From Source)
- Auto-filed for packages that fail to build from source
- Ask owner to automatically set new bugs in the following way so they do not need to be triaged
- Change state to ASSIGNED
- Revew comment text to make sure it is descriptive and explains what is happening
- OWNER: jds2001 to close with mdomsch
FEver Bugs
- Auto-filed for packages that have new versions upstream at SourceForge
- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackageMaintainers/FEver
- Ask owner to automatically set new bugs in the following way so they do not need to be triaged
- Change state to ASSIGNED
- Revew comment text to make sure it is descriptive and explains what is happening
- Add FutureFeature keyword
- OWNER: poelcat
Topics for Next Week
- okay to triage your own bugs?
- How to create an organized effort to tackle growing list of new rawhide bugs: http://tinyurl.com/6llac8
IRC Transcript
| poelcat | who is here? | 07:01 |
|---|---|---|
| poelcat | or did you already do that? :) | 07:01 |
| * jds2001 , John5342 ke4qqq | 07:01 | |
| John5342 | jds2001: beat me to it | 07:02 |
| poelcat | should we wait for anyone else or get started? | 07:02 |
| jds2001 | how bout comphappy? | 07:02 |
| jds2001 | is he gonna be able to make it? | 07:02 |
| jds2001 | ahh, there's mcepl :) | 07:02 |
| mcepl | here I am | 07:02 |
| poelcat | mcepl: hi! | 07:02 |
| mcepl | hi | 07:02 |
| poelcat | so first off, I reorganized and trimmed down this page | 07:03 |
| poelcat | BugZappers/Meetings | 07:03 |
| * John5342 likes it | 07:03 | |
| poelcat | my personal goal is to do better meeting recaps for the next couple of months and see how that goes | 07:03 |
| poelcat | including sending them to fedora-test-list after each meeting | 07:04 |
| * mcepl *really* likes it | 07:04 | |
| poelcat | after the new year I'd hope that someone else can take this over or help with them | 07:04 |
| jds2001 | poelcat: sorry for giving you about a year's worth of raw irc logs from here :) | 07:04 |
| poelcat | it doesn't take that long to do, but combined with everything else | 07:04 |
| poelcat | it can be hard to be consistent | 07:04 |
| poelcat | so i'm hoping that having another feedback loop the mailing list about what we are doing | 07:05 |
| jds2001 | yeah, I think that the new arrangement is easier. | 07:05 |
| poelcat | helps raise visibility, interest, etc. | 07:05 |
| John5342 | poelcat: and as for the implied request for help in the long term i might be able to help out if nobody else steps up | 07:05 |
| poelcat | John5342: i'll keep you in mind :) | 07:05 |
| mcepl | just a note on NEW->ASSIGNED -- I don't think we should take it too seriously -- there is only one guy bitching, other people who really need it, can use ON_DEV or something. | 07:05 |
| jds2001 | and the good news is that the list is about to be flooded with XO stuff :) | 07:05 |
| jds2001 | so probably new folks coming in that may not have known about this before. | 07:06 |
| poelcat | is that why #fedora-qa seems busier than usual? | 07:06 |
| comphappy | my hope is that I can be ore active again once march rolls arround | 07:06 |
| jds2001 | yeah, I think that's part of it. | 07:06 |
| poelcat | mcepl: let's talk about that topic as it blocks a few things | 07:06 |
| poelcat | comphappy: hi! | 07:06 |
| mcepl | poelcat: and because people found out that it is better place to find out what's going on then be swamped by newbies on #fedora ? | 07:06 |
| poelcat | lol | 07:07 |
| * John5342 googles for XO | 07:07 | |
| mcepl | poelcat: and of course, Fedora10Beta helps ... ;-) | 07:07 |
| poelcat | John5342: OLPC | 07:07 |
| mcepl | John5342: OLPC -- one laptop per child is called XO | 07:07 |
| John5342 | thanks | 07:07 |
| comphappy | poelcat: did you give that gs script a whirl | 07:08 |
| poelcat | so how shall we resolve the NEW->ASSIGNED controversy | 07:08 |
| poelcat | comphappy: let's cover that in a little bit | 07:08 |
| comphappy | ok I got to take off in about 5 | 07:08 |
| * jlaska arrives late | 07:08 | |
| poelcat | i'm willing to consider "Triaged" keyword | 07:08 |
| mcepl | poelcat: my suggestion is stonewall it -- doing nothing. | 07:08 |
| mcepl | -1 for a new keyword | 07:08 |
| poelcat | mcepl: why is that? | 07:09 |
| mcepl | see above -- too much work for nothing | 07:09 |
| * poelcat wants to make sure other teams feel like we want to help/work with them vs. get in the way | 07:09 | |
| * comphappy agrees with mcepl | 07:09 | |
| comphappy | never seen a complaint about it until it was talked about on the ML | 07:09 |
| mcepl | if there is anybody who has legitimate problems (like I was told by dm & al. and KDE people) there are possible solutions | 07:10 |
| poelcat | mcepl: so are you suggesting continuing to triage everyone's bugs the same way? | 07:10 |
| mcepl | yup | 07:10 |
| poelcat | jlaska: hi | 07:10 |
| * John5342 believes that Triaged keyword is non-intrusive and can also be automated using the gs stuff but should still solve the issues. no matter how minor they are. | 07:11 | |
| jds2001 | hmm, i dont really want to give the sense of inflexibility | 07:11 |
| poelcat | so i see a couple of roads.... | 07:11 |
| mcepl | jds2001: there are just few trolls bitching ... don't feed them | 07:11 |
| poelcat | 1) do nothing for 2 more months | 07:11 |
| poelcat | 2) take a vote now | 07:11 |
| poelcat | 3) ? | 07:11 |
| comphappy | jds2001, but it is also just_another_thing | 07:11 |
| * mcepl votes for 1) | 07:11 | |
| * comphappy 1 | 07:12 | |
| * poelcat +1 to 1) | 07:12 | |
| poelcat | ke4qqq: jlaska jds2001 ? | 07:12 |
| jds2001 | +1 to 1. (but aren't we doing 2? :) ) | 07:12 |
| poelcat | if you're at the meeting you have a "vote" :) | 07:12 |
| poelcat | lol | 07:12 |
| * ke4qqq wonders if our minds will change in 2 months | 07:12 | |
| poelcat | ke4qqq: well we are kind of deciding not to decide | 07:13 |
| mcepl | ke4qqq: we'll see whether there is a real problem, or whether it just settles down. | 07:13 |
| * poelcat waits for someone to quote the Rush song | 07:13 | |
| * John5342 refuses to quote songs | 07:13 | |
| comphappy | poelcat, not to push the issue, but did you have any comments on that | 07:13 |
| * mcepl don't that many American songs ;-) | 07:13 | |
| * poelcat meant voting as in vote on a different way to do it | 07:13 | |
| mcepl | *know | 07:13 |
| poelcat | comphappy: i didn't know there was a new version | 07:14 |
| * mcepl understands, but maybe being a lawyer he has it too easy to distinguish between substantial and procedural votes ;-) | 07:14 | |
| poelcat | comphappy: link? | 07:14 |
| * comphappy got a warning for showing up late because of linux stuff yesterday | 07:14 | |
| comphappy | http://bashton.fedorapeople.org/bugzilla_buttons_for_fed.user.js | 07:14 |
| poelcat | comphappy: its okay if you have to go... thanks for all your help! | 07:15 |
| comphappy | code is not very clean right now, but I will fix that in the next week or so | 07:15 |
| poelcat | comphappy: okay | 07:15 |
| comphappy | but it seems to work | 07:15 |
| poelcat | anymore thoughts/comments/votes on the current topic of NEW/ASSIGNED ? | 07:16 |
| comphappy | i will keep my irc up while i get ready so just put your comments in | 07:16 |
| jlaska | poelcat: so the consensus is to hold out until post F10? | 07:17 |
| poelcat | jlaska: the only +1s are for keeping things they way they are | 07:18 |
| poelcat | so i'll consider that concensus for now :) | 07:18 |
| jds2001 | sounds good :) | 07:19 |
| mcepl | comphappy: consider http://mcepl.fedorapeople.org/scripts/greasemonkey/redhat/bugzillaCopyOwnerToCC.user.js -- I seem to have some improvements in. | 07:19 |
| poelcat | next topic... FTBFS | 07:19 |
| poelcat | did we want to recommend/decide for sure that they auto-set those to ASSIGNED? | 07:19 |
| jds2001 | I thought I told mdomsch to throw those in ASSIGNED, but come to think of it, there may have been some python-bugzilla thing that prevented him from doing that, not sure. | 07:20 |
| poelcat | jds2001: i think it would have to be a followup action | 07:20 |
| mcepl | poelcat: yes, the description should be more thorough and more emphasize that this is a Fedora action not some random whiner (which some maintainer tends to think), but otherwise, there is not much to triage. | 07:20 |
| poelcat | because you can't start in ASSIGNED | 07:20 |
| mcepl | poelcat: well, I don't care if they are filed as NEW and then automagically immediately switched to ASSIGNed. | 07:21 |
| jds2001 | i think that's what I told him to do, and mentioned that there's a way to suppress the mail. | 07:21 |
| poelcat | mcepl: i agree | 07:22 |
| jds2001 | but this was many moons ago :) | 07:22 |
| jds2001 | when he first started auto-filing bugs | 07:22 |
| poelcat | does anyone else think we could be missing something by not triaging? | 07:22 |
| poelcat | jds2001: could you followup with him? | 07:22 |
| jds2001 | matt already doess something of a sanity check to make sure that rawhide wasn't busted that day, etc. | 07:23 |
| jds2001 | sure. | 07:23 |
| mcepl | jds2001: well, if he screws up, then bug triagers won't fix it. | 07:23 |
| poelcat | any objections to a resolution of "FTBFS bugs should be auto-changed to ASSIGNED by Matt's script" ? | 07:24 |
| jds2001 | (and mail suppressed on that action to save him from being endlessly flamed) | 07:25 |
| poelcat | jds2001: good point | 07:25 |
| John5342 | +1 for that resolution together with jds2001 comment. | 07:25 |
| jds2001 | but I think that's really easy to do in python-bugzilla | 07:26 |
| poelcat | any objections to said resolution? | 07:26 |
| mcepl | +1 to take a second look at the text of the bug | 07:26 |
| mcepl | s/\+1/& +/ | 07:26 |
| poelcat | mcepl: lol that is not what the resolution is :) | 07:26 |
| poelcat | mcepl: so you're voting -1 ? | 07:26 |
| mcepl | no +1 | 07:27 |
| jds2001 | mcepl: you're a lawyere, you're out of order! :) | 07:27 |
| * poelcat brings the gavel down | 07:27 | |
| * comphappy + 1 | 07:27 | |
| mcepl | with comment "please, take a second look at the text of the FTBS bug" | 07:27 |
| poelcat | mcepl: who? | 07:27 |
| mcepl | Matt | 07:27 |
| poelcat | what is he lookin at? that isn't clear to me | 07:27 |
| jds2001 | just to make sure that the text is clear that this isn't some random Joe complaining | 07:28 |
| jds2001 | and what will happen if it's not resolved, etc. | 07:28 |
| * poelcat is still confused | 07:29 | |
| mcepl | poelcat: don't worry | 07:29 |
| poelcat | can someone state from the beginning what needs to happen? | 07:29 |
| poelcat | otherwise we can't have clear minutes :) | 07:29 |
| * mcepl is quite certain that he shouldn't say anything | 07:29 | |
| jds2001 | sure, two things: | 07:29 |
| jds2001 | 1) Move to ASSIGNED automatically, supppressing mail | 07:29 |
| jds2001 | 2) Review the text of the bug that's filed for clarity to the maintainer. | 07:30 |
| poelcat | shouldn't we be advisin Matt on #2 ? | 07:30 |
| poelcat | or we just want to ask him to "be sure" ? | 07:30 |
| poelcat | that sounds funny to me, but oh well :) | 07:30 |
| jds2001 | I can offer some advice, yeah | 07:30 |
| poelcat | jds2001: thanks | 07:31 |
| poelcat | okay next topic... a related one: FEver | 07:31 |
| poelcat | do we want to vote on a similiar resolution for default bug filing behavior? | 07:32 |
| John5342 | +1 to the same resolutions from me. | 07:32 |
| mcepl | poelcat: "be sure" is better and mention my experience with Firefox guys who were ignoring FTBFS on seamonkey as "don't feed troll who doesn'ŧ know how to build" | 07:32 |
| poelcat | e.g. ASSIGNED, FutureFeature, etc. ? | 07:32 |
| * poelcat was +1 for past resolution too | 07:33 | |
| mcepl | I am lost, what am I voting about now? | 07:33 |
| John5342 | mcepl: FEver. at least thats what i just voted on | 07:33 |
| jds2001 | FEver, the automated thing that files bugs about new releases. | 07:34 |
| jds2001 | new upstream releases of packages, that is. | 07:34 |
| poelcat | we talked about it here BugZappers/Meetings/Minutes-2008-Sep-30#FEver_Bugs | 07:34 |
| poelcat | wanted to close out the discussion | 07:34 |
| poelcat | is there anything we want to add beyond asking them to autochange to ASSIGNED and add FutureFeature? | 07:37 |
| John5342 | poelcat: presumably also supress mail from that one in the same way as the last issue | 07:37 |
| poelcat | John5342: good point | 07:38 |
| mcepl | +1 | 07:38 |
| poelcat | how about the text they are using? | 07:38 |
| jds2001 | +1 here | 07:38 |
| jds2001 | mcepl: i just looked at a FTBFS bug and it directs folks to a rather well-written wiki page. | 07:38 |
| mcepl | do we have an example of the text? | 07:38 |
| mcepl | jds2001: OK, so Martin is lazy. Oh well :( | 07:39 |
| John5342 | mcepl: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=464491 | 07:41 |
| buggbot | Bug 464491: medium, medium, ---, wart@kobold.org, ASSIGNED, manaworld-0.0.26 is available | 07:41 |
| poelcat | okay... any disagreement with recommending: 1) auto set to ASSIGNED 2) FutureFeature keyword, 3) suppress email? | 07:42 |
| poelcat | otherwise i'll assume everyone is +1 to moving forward | 07:42 |
| jds2001 | yep | 07:42 |
| John5342 | +1 here | 07:42 |
| jds2001 | +1 to moving forward, that is. | 07:42 |
| * poelcat +1 | 07:42 | |
| mcepl | +1 | 07:43 |
| poelcat | the beast is growing again ... http://tinyurl.com/6llac8 | 07:43 |
| poelcat | (list of NEW rawhide bugs) | 07:43 |
| ke4qqq | +1 | 07:43 |
| poelcat | should we have a "Bug day" or "Bug Week" or _________ ? | 07:43 |
| mcepl | poelcat: yes, fighting with X & Gecko bugs and it is tough | 07:43 |
| poelcat | i'd also encourage people to post triage questions with bz url to fedora-test-list | 07:44 |
| poelcat | i got a lot of questions answered that way | 07:44 |
| poelcat | best to group a bunch of them thought, rather than one email at a time :) | 07:44 |
| John5342 | autosend all rawhideASSIGNED | 07:46 |
| John5342 | oops | 07:46 |
| John5342 | ignore me | 07:46 |
| poelcat | should we have a "Bug day" or "Bug Week" or _________ ? Need some ideas and input here :) | 07:50 |
| poelcat | beyond "yes" | 07:50 |
| jds2001 | yes :) | 07:51 |
| mcepl | yes (and thinking about the rest) | 07:51 |
| * poelcat hits jds2001 w/ the gavel | 07:51 | |
| jds2001 | So the problem that I see with em is what you and I had talked about. | 07:51 |
| jds2001 | that a "go forth and triage" day isn't really productive of anyone's time. | 07:51 |
| poelcat | mcepl: have you had any past success with them or other ideas we should try? | 07:51 |
| jds2001 | I think that jlaska's test days have been quite the success, though. | 07:51 |
| jds2001 | but that's focused and there are folks right there to help. | 07:52 |
| poelcat | maybe he could come as a guest speaker and give a motivational talk? ;-) | 07:52 |
| mcepl | poelcat: no (I haven't organized any yet) and I have no clue. Still thinking ... | 07:52 |
| mcepl | I think that being focused might help -- "let's go and squash this beast" is much better than everybody wandering around for anybody to kill. | 07:53 |
| John5342 | i agree with mcepl. easy to get a bulk session going with a target. not so much for in general. | 07:54 |
| mcepl | and the beast must be smaller than "all NEW Rawhide bugs" ;-) | 07:54 |
| jlaska | poelcat: you want a motivational talk from me? :) | 07:54 |
| poelcat | shall we think more about this and discuss again next week? | 07:55 |
| poelcat | jlaska: we aren't sure we can afford your rate, but you would get the free wireless headset mic | 07:55 |
| poelcat | ;-) | 07:55 |
| jlaska | ha! | 07:55 |
| poelcat | anything else we want to cover this week or add to next week's agenda? | 07:56 |
| mcepl | please, all RH folks, bomb me with bugs in http://mcepl.fedorapeople.org/scripts/greasemonkey/redhat/bugzillaCopyOwnerToCC.user.js | 07:57 |
| ke4qqq | ? | 07:58 |
| jds2001 | apparently that's a greasemonkey script that only works with RH employees | 07:58 |
| jds2001 | (they see a slightly different view) | 07:58 |
| ke4qqq | hey quick "process" question - is it ok to triage bugs you created, or should you not? | 07:59 |
| ke4qqq | is there supposed to be separation? | 07:59 |
| mcepl | ke4qqq: I rather don't do it. | 07:59 |
| * poelcat tends to triage my own... i never make mistakes ;-) | 08:00 | |
| ke4qqq | that tends to be my thought as well mcepl - but I hate the idea of someone else having to do it. | 08:00 |
| mcepl | ke4qqq: triage two more additinoal bugs for every bug you file ;-) | 08:01 |
| poelcat | let's revisit next week as we are at the hour mark | 08:01 |
| mcepl | OK | 08:01 |
| ke4qqq | k | 08:02 |
| poelcat | thanks everyone for coming! | 08:02 |
| John5342 | bye all. thanks | 08:02 |
| * poelcat will send out recap by tomorrow, earlier if weather permits | 08:02 | |
| mcepl | bye | 08:03 |
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