From Fedora Project Wiki
| ---Topic for #fedora-classroom is Fedora Classroom - Sessions on 2009-06-07 (UTC time all day). See https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Classroom for updates and changes. | Jun 07 13:00 | |
| ---Topic for #fedora-classroom set by herlo at Sun May 10 22:28:53 2009 | Jun 07 13:00 | |
| nirik | Hello everyone. Who all is here for the Class? | Jun 07 13:00 |
|---|---|---|
| nirik | I'm going to talk about resources for Fedora 11 (which releases on tuesday) and perhaps go over features in F11. | Jun 07 13:01 |
| *ianweller | Jun 07 13:01 | |
| nirik | I'm happy to answer questions on the release... so feel free to chime in anytime. | Jun 07 13:01 |
| DiscordianUK | I'm here, thanks | Jun 07 13:01 |
| *Cheshirc_ throws his spitwad straw away | Jun 07 13:01 | |
| nirik | ok, I'll go ahead and get started. | Jun 07 13:02 |
| nirik | First off, the docs folks have written up some excellent docs for this release as always. | Jun 07 13:02 |
| nirik | This is a great time to read: http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f11/en-US/ | Jun 07 13:03 |
| nirik | The release notes are short bits of info of whats changed in this release vs the last one. | Jun 07 13:03 |
| nirik | Lots of good info in there. | Jun 07 13:03 |
| nirik | Of course the install guide is great for people first installing Fedora: http://docs.fedoraproject.org/install-guide/f11/en-US/html/ | Jun 07 13:03 |
| nirik | note that some of these are drafts until tuesdays release, but they already contain close to the final content. | Jun 07 13:04 |
| -->Plouj (n=plouj@ns.somanetworks.com) has joined #fedora-classroom | Jun 07 13:04 | |
| nirik | There is also a selinux guide for the security types: | Jun 07 13:04 |
| nirik | http://docs.fedoraproject.org/selinux-user-guide/f11/html-single/ | Jun 07 13:04 |
| nirik | Lots of things are covered in the release notes that we see people asking about over in #fedora after a release, so thats really the one I would suggest everyone read. | Jun 07 13:05 |
| nirik | It's short and full of good info | Jun 07 13:05 |
| nirik | ok, any questions on those docs/ | Jun 07 13:05 |
| nirik | ? | Jun 07 13:05 |
| DiscordianUK | How about a guide for this migrating from F10 to F11? | Jun 07 13:06 |
| nirik | The next great source of info I would like to note is the wiki. | Jun 07 13:06 |
| DiscordianUK | s/this/those/ | Jun 07 13:06 |
| nirik | DiscordianUK: Great question. | Jun 07 13:06 |
| nirik | Thats on the wiki: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Upgrading | Jun 07 13:07 |
| DiscordianUK | Thank you I shall read that before Tuesday | Jun 07 13:07 |
| nirik | You can use the media to do an upgrade. You can use preupgrade, or yum. Or you can re-install and restore your user data. | Jun 07 13:07 |
| nirik | Some folks find that keeping a seperate /home and just re-installing to be easier than upgrading. You also get some new features this way. | Jun 07 13:08 |
| nirik | like for example ext4 in Fedora 11. | Jun 07 13:08 |
| *sdodson trying preupgrade right now | Jun 07 13:08 | |
| nirik | ok, to continue on with wiki docs... | Jun 07 13:08 |
| nirik | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_11_FAQ Is a overview/faq for f11. | Jun 07 13:08 |
| nirik | Lots of questions answered there about the release. | Jun 07 13:09 |
| nirik | Finally, linked to from there is: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common_F11_bugs | Jun 07 13:09 |
| nirik | These are bugs that were not fixed by release time, but have workarounds or are known. | Jun 07 13:09 |
| nirik | If you run into a bug this should be your first stop to see if it's already known/has a workaround/is already fixed in an update. | Jun 07 13:10 |
| nirik | ok, those are the important docs I can think of. | Jun 07 13:11 |
| nirik | Anyone have any further questions on docs? | Jun 07 13:11 |
| -->inode0 (n=inode0@fedora/inode0) has joined #fedora-classroom | Jun 07 13:12 | |
| nirik | great. I would like to move on to talking about some Fedora 11 features. ;) | Jun 07 13:13 |
| nirik | This is a great release for those... there are a ton of them! :0 | Jun 07 13:13 |
| nirik | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/11/FeatureList | Jun 07 13:13 |
| nirik | is the feature list. | Jun 07 13:13 |
| nirik | I guess I will touch on random features that I find exciting. If anyone would like more info on any one in particular, just let me know. | Jun 07 13:14 |
| nirik | The 20 second startup feature has worked on making startups faster. I haven't measured my machines here, but startup does "feel" faster from F10 for me. | Jun 07 13:15 |
| nirik | Of course that figure will vary depending on your hardware/disks/setup. | Jun 07 13:15 |
| nirik | The change from i386 to i586 packages should result in a bit of a performance increase for our 32bit users. | Jun 07 13:16 |
| nirik | The automatic font/mime type installer feature is cool. When you get some text in a language that doesn't have a font that can display it, packagekit will now prompt you to install a font for that locale. | Jun 07 13:17 |
| nirik | also, this will work with multimedia content. | Jun 07 13:17 |
| DiscordianUK | Like codecs? | Jun 07 13:18 |
| nirik | DiscordianUK: yep. If you have 3rd party repos enabled that provide them it will automagically install the ones you need. | Jun 07 13:18 |
| nirik | well, it will prompt you to install rather. | Jun 07 13:19 |
| nirik | DNS Security is nice. I read the other day that they are finally going to sign the top level domains... | Jun 07 13:19 |
| DiscordianUK | That's a cool feature | Jun 07 13:20 |
| nirik | EXT4 will be the default / filesystem for Fedora 11. Should provide some small incremental performance increases. | Jun 07 13:20 |
| nirik | note that /boot must be ext3 still. Grub cannot read from ext4 yet. | Jun 07 13:21 |
| nirik | likely that will go away in the next devel cycle (there is a patch, it's just not gotten enough testing yet) | Jun 07 13:21 |
| DiscordianUK | Oh | Jun 07 13:21 |
| nirik | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ext4_in_Fedora_11 | Jun 07 13:22 |
| nirik | has more info on ext4 and questions about it. | Jun 07 13:22 |
| nirik | you can somewhat migrate from ext3, but a new install is best to get all the features. | Jun 07 13:23 |
| nirik | any questions on any of those features? Or shall I move on to some more? :) | Jun 07 13:24 |
| DiscordianUK | If it's the default now what options comprise default in /etc/fstab? | Jun 07 13:25 |
| DiscordianUK | There have been some concerns about the stability of ext4 | Jun 07 13:25 |
| nirik | I'm not sure off hand. I can look. | Jun 07 13:25 |
| DiscordianUK | It doesn't matter immediately | Jun 07 13:26 |
| nirik | Yes, but Fedora has a excellent ext4 developer on hand... he's patched things the right way. :) | Jun 07 13:26 |
| Plouj | I'm wondering about ABRT. I've been reading that Ubuntu and SUSE are happily working on their own Apport. | Jun 07 13:26 |
| nirik | Plouj: good question. I did see some talk about what it would take to merge them back together. | Jun 07 13:26 |
| Plouj | oh | Jun 07 13:26 |
| nirik | Hopefully something like that could happen. It seems a shame to duplicate efforts. | Jun 07 13:27 |
| Plouj | regarding the i386>i586 change | Jun 07 13:28 |
| nirik | ask away. | Jun 07 13:28 |
| Plouj | are the x86_64 users already way beyond the i586 arch so that there is nothing better for then? | Jun 07 13:28 |
| nirik | well, depends on what you mean by 'better'. ;) | Jun 07 13:29 |
| Plouj | I mean a newer architecture | Jun 07 13:29 |
| nirik | the issue is that x86_64 is a pretty common set of things...we already know how best to tune for all the machines in it. | Jun 07 13:29 |
| Plouj | if x86_64 was i386 | Jun 07 13:29 |
| nirik | the x86 arch has i386/i486/i686/centuar/whatever/ | Jun 07 13:30 |
| nirik | so there are all varying models with their own issues/tweaks. | Jun 07 13:30 |
| nirik | For a long time it wasn't worth it (in the tools) to change i386 to a higher set... now it is, and there are many fewer i386/i486 machines running fedora (0 I hope) | Jun 07 13:30 |
| Plouj | k | Jun 07 13:31 |
| Plouj | what about changing i586 to i686? | Jun 07 13:31 |
| nirik | so, this change does leave them out, but improves things for all the i586+ people. | Jun 07 13:31 |
| DiscordianUK | So why i586 and not i686? | Jun 07 13:31 |
| nirik | that was talked about. :) | Jun 07 13:31 |
| nirik | the concern was several fold: there are still some i586 machines (more than i386/i486 for sure), and finally OPLC might be affected by that change. | Jun 07 13:32 |
| DiscordianUK | Ahh yes makes sense | Jun 07 13:32 |
| nirik | OLPC is mostly i686, but without CMOV. So, it was unclear if changing to i686 would break them. | Jun 07 13:32 |
| muep | Did Fedora even boot on plain i386 hardware before the change to i586? | Jun 07 13:32 |
| nirik | muep: I doubt it. Lack of memory if nothing else. | Jun 07 13:32 |
| muep | My VIA C3 equipped motherboard at least fails to boot both Fedora 10 and CentOS | Jun 07 13:33 |
| muep | it should be at least i486 | Jun 07 13:33 |
| nirik | "rw,relatime,barrier=1,data=ordered" seems to be the default EXT4 options here (at least from a live install). | Jun 07 13:33 |
| muep | Debian with the i486 kernel does work | Jun 07 13:34 |
| nirik | I would expect CentOS to at least work there... | Jun 07 13:34 |
| muep | nope, doesn't get past boot loader | Jun 07 13:34 |
| nirik | strange, no idea off hand. ;) | Jun 07 13:34 |
| DiscordianUK | That's good news nirik, that's a nicely conservative set of defaults | Jun 07 13:34 |
| muep | I mean, the boot loader screen works, but nothing else | Jun 07 13:34 |
| muep | but well, at least now it's probably best to try to move on from that hardware | Jun 07 13:35 |
| nirik | yeah, should be easy to get a much better replacement. | Jun 07 13:35 |
| muep | Even though it's a server, I'd prefer running Fedora on it | Jun 07 13:35 |
| nirik | ok, anything further on the arch feature? Shall we move on? Any other paticular ones people are interested in discussing? | Jun 07 13:35 |
| nirik | There is the typical newer versions of lots of things: kde, gnome, xfce all have updates. gcc, firefox, python, rpm, thunderbird also | Jun 07 13:36 |
| Plouj | firefox 3.5, heh | Jun 07 13:36 |
| Plouj | will that be included in the updates or something like f12/f13? | Jun 07 13:37 |
| nirik | it's in Fedora 11. ;) | Jun 07 13:37 |
| Plouj | the featurelist shows 3.1 | Jun 07 13:37 |
| ianweller | that's cuz 3.1 is 3.5. | Jun 07 13:37 |
| nirik | yeah, upstream decided to rename it 3.5 | Jun 07 13:37 |
| muep | mozilla changed the version number | Jun 07 13:37 |
| Plouj | oh | Jun 07 13:37 |
| Plouj | great | Jun 07 13:38 |
| Plouj | so, we'll be able to test that <video> thingy | Jun 07 13:38 |
| nirik | beta4 will be in F11 release I think. | Jun 07 13:38 |
| muep | the video thing works, at least | Jun 07 13:38 |
| nirik | an update to final will come when thats out | Jun 07 13:38 |
| *nirik uses midori, in which the video thing also works. ;) | Jun 07 13:39 | |
| Plouj | midori? | Jun 07 13:39 |
| nirik | the thunderbird update is also one that lots of people are interested in. | Jun 07 13:39 |
| herlo | nirik: RC4 don't you mean? | Jun 07 13:39 |
| Plouj | oh, I thought the midori OS | Jun 07 13:39 |
| nirik | Plouj: web browser. ;) | Jun 07 13:40 |
| nirik | herlo: the package says beta4... they might have meant rc4. ;) | Jun 07 13:40 |
| -->Cheshirc__ (n=pj@unaffiliated/cheshirc) has joined #fedora-classroom | Jun 07 13:40 | |
| herlo | nirik: oh, I thought you were referring to F11 RC4, not FF | Jun 07 13:40 |
| *herlo goes back to lurking | Jun 07 13:40 | |
| -->linuxguru_ (n=linuxgur@unaffiliated/linuxguru) has joined #fedora-classroom | Jun 07 13:41 | |
| nirik | ok, on to another feature lots of people will enjoy: Delta rpms! | Jun 07 13:42 |
| nirik | It's not enabled by default yet, but it's available for people who want to test it. | Jun 07 13:42 |
| nirik | simply: 'yum install yum-presto' | Jun 07 13:42 |
| Plouj | Oh, it's not enabled by default? Why not? | Jun 07 13:42 |
| <--Cheshirc_ has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) | Jun 07 13:42 | |
| nirik | and then yum will use it if it can. | Jun 07 13:42 |
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| nirik | Plouj: the work to get it working landed very very late. It was thought that it didn't get enough testing to enable for everyone. | Jun 07 13:43 |
| nirik | it likely will be for f12. | Jun 07 13:43 |
| Plouj | humm | Jun 07 13:43 |
| nirik | I have seen very high savings... 90%+ on some updates. | Jun 07 13:43 |
| Plouj | this isn't in the feature list, but how is pulseaudio going? | Jun 07 13:43 |
| nirik | It's going. ;) There are some issues with the default gnome-volume in F11. Look at the volume feature. | Jun 07 13:44 |
| nirik | it's unable to handle some use cases where you need to switch input. Otherwise it's very nice.e | Jun 07 13:44 |
| -->zubair (n=zubair@124.125.11.130) has joined #fedora-classroom | Jun 07 13:44 | |
| nirik | pulse continues to expose ALSA bugs and hopefully those get fixed so it works out of the box for more folks | Jun 07 13:44 |
| nirik | see https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_11_FAQ#My_sound_doesn.27t_work.3F if you run into a bug with it now. | Jun 07 13:45 |
| Plouj | ok, great, thanks | Jun 07 13:47 |
| nirik | Lots of video driver work in this release. Radeon (ati) has gotten tons of work, as well as intel and to some extent Nouveau (nvidia) | Jun 07 13:47 |
| Plouj | yeah | Jun 07 13:47 |
| nirik | the intel driver seems a lot more stable here than f10. Kernel modesetting works nicely now for me and many others. | Jun 07 13:47 |
| Plouj | the nouveau test day was fun (at least for me) | Jun 07 13:47 |
| <--kylem (i=kyle@fruit.freedesktop.org) has left #fedora-classroom | Jun 07 13:48 | |
| nirik | for radeon, more chips supported with 3d, kernel modesetting and lots of bugfixes | Jun 07 13:48 |
| Plouj | does the free/opensource radeon driver support 3d on any recent laptop chipsets? (Sorry, but I'm ignorant about AMD models) | Jun 07 13:48 |
| nirik | Plouj: it does. | Jun 07 13:48 |
| nirik | r300/r400/r500 should all work I think. | Jun 07 13:49 |
| Plouj | I'm asking from a laptop buyer's perspective. | Jun 07 13:49 |
| nirik | yeah, many of the radeon ones should work. You should check the specific model of course. | Jun 07 13:49 |
| muep | R600 radeons have xv and exa accelerations, afaik | Jun 07 13:51 |
| linuxguru_ | kms in intel works here , i got boot splash with my f11 setup ; | Jun 07 13:51 |
| muep | No 3D yet, but they work nice for the things they currently do | Jun 07 13:52 |
| nirik | any other features or docs folks would like to know about/go over before we end the session? | Jun 07 13:52 |
| muep | Even R100 radeons have KMS :-) | Jun 07 13:52 |
| linuxguru_ | selinux is much more enhanced in fedora 11 , svirt goodness is all there for ya | Jun 07 13:53 |
| linuxguru_ | i hope it was covered earlier , before /me joined in here , | Jun 07 13:53 |
| DiscordianUK | I've no more questions, thank you nirik | Jun 07 13:53 |
| nirik | svirt is great. Working nicely on a machine here... | Jun 07 13:54 |
| muep | what's svirt? | Jun 07 13:54 |
| nirik | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/SVirt_Mandatory_Access_Control | Jun 07 13:54 |
| nirik | selinux for virtual stuff. ;) | Jun 07 13:55 |
| nirik | basically keep the instances from messing with the host or other guests. | Jun 07 13:55 |
| <--RadicalRo has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Jun 07 13:56 | |
| muep | does this relate to the fact that I no longer need to setenforce 0 to have my VMs able to access disks? | Jun 07 13:56 |
| nirik | possibly, although thats more likely you are saving the disks to the place selinux expects. ;) | Jun 07 13:56 |
| nirik | ie, /var/lib/libvirt/images/ | Jun 07 13:56 |
| muep | I use LVM volumes | Jun 07 13:57 |
| muep | I don't have hundreds of gigabytes of space in /var ... | Jun 07 13:58 |
| linuxguru_ | lvm volumes are also mounted on a directory before you can access those, you just need to have the write context set on the directory | Jun 07 13:58 |
| nirik | yeah, that should work fine too. | Jun 07 13:58 |
| linuxguru_ | semanage fcontext --help , your friend | Jun 07 13:58 |
| muep | linuxguru_: afaik, they are accessed directly by the vms | Jun 07 13:58 |
| muep | The LVs are used as disks | Jun 07 13:58 |
| muep | If I didn't use LVs, I'd need to have some big files to use as disks | Jun 07 13:59 |
| linuxguru_ | didnt knew that , | Jun 07 13:59 |
| linuxguru_ | but then also there must be label for that | Jun 07 13:59 |
| linuxguru_ | maybe for the file /dev | Jun 07 14:00 |
| muep | If you use them as usually for storing a filesystem with files, they are indeed mounted somewhere before you can access their contents | Jun 07 14:00 |
| nirik | ok, if no one has anything else, lets go ahead and close out. Of course further conversation is welcome. ;) | Jun 07 14:00 |
| nirik | Everyone is welcome to join #fedora-social for release party this week... and enjoy Fedora 11! :) | Jun 07 14:01 |
| DiscordianUK | Thank you | Jun 07 14:02 |
| nirik | Thanks everyone for coming! | Jun 07 14:02 |
| smfry60 | :) | Jun 07 14:02 |
| Cheshirc__ | thanks nirik | Jun 07 14:02 |
| zubair | thanks nirik | Jun 07 14:03 |
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