Websites/Meetings/2009-07-31

ricky	#startmeeting Fedora Websites	17:00
onekopaka	k	17:00
zodbot	Meeting started Fri Jul 31 17:00:05 2009 UTC. The chair is ricky. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.	17:00
zodbot	Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.	17:00
-!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-websites to: (Meeting topic: Fedora Websites)		17:00
ricky	#topic Who's here?	17:00
-!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-websites to: Who's here? (Meeting topic: Fedora Websites)		17:00
* nb		17:00
* stickster		17:00
* onekopaka		17:00
* ricky		17:00
-!- mizmo [n=duffy@nat/redhat/x-xjvducmcqyezityp] has quit "Sláinte Mhath!"		17:00
* hiemanshu is here		17:00
ricky	ianweller_away, mchua, any-interested-advisory-board-people: ping	17:00
hiemanshu	onekopaka: nb ?	17:01
onekopaka	ricky: ianweller_away sent mail to the list saying he's gone.	17:01
ricky	onekopaka: Oh, which list	17:01
onekopaka	ricky: mizmo is also not here (hence her quiting the irc room)	17:01
onekopaka	ricky: f-w-l	17:01
* hiemanshu dint get any		17:01
ricky	All right then.	17:02
ricky	#topic get-fedora redesign	17:02
-!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-websites to: get-fedora redesign (Meeting topic: Fedora Websites)		17:02
ricky	#link https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-advisory-board/2009-July/msg00088.html <- stickster's email about that	17:02
* hiemanshu doesnt like what mizmo did to the mockup		17:02
onekopaka	#link [1]	17:02
ricky	So mizmo posted a unfinished mockup today - I think we should hold back the comments until it's actually done, since it could still be changing a lot as she works on it	17:03
hiemanshu	onekopaka: that mockup in my idea is _BAD_	17:03
hiemanshu	ricky: where are the other options? x86_64	17:03
stickster	Critiques of in-progress works can be helpful	17:03
hiemanshu	mainly thats what we spoke of	17:03
stickster	hiemanshu: Can you be a bit more specific please?	17:03
onekopaka	hiemanshu: I know, I figured that you would say that.	17:03
ricky	stickster: Well, I'm saying this based on what mizmo said last meeting about not wanting to post her unfinished mockup	17:04
stickster	ricky: OK, understandable	17:04
hiemanshu	stickster: the main reason we wanted a new look because we wanted people to be able to find pages easy	17:04
stickster	I think the thing to remember about this design is that it's going to be in accordance with the requirements that are being developed on FAB	17:04
ricky	So did everybody see the stickster's email?	17:04
stickster	Board meeting notes from yesterday are also good reading	17:05
* onekopaka looks at taht now.		17:05
hiemanshu	ricky: not really, will read it after the meeting	17:05
onekopaka	that*	17:05
stickster	http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting:Board_meeting_2009-07-30	17:05
ricky	Basically, there was some disagreement about the target audience requirements for the page in the past, which led to the page being messy with our attempts to please everybody	17:05
onekopaka	links = pain when using irssi	17:05
-!- caillon [n=caillon@c-98-248-36-51.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #fedora-websites		17:05
ricky	So the board has made the call of exactly who this page will be targetted at, so that there will be no question about those requirements	17:06
stickster	There's a thread on FAB about this now, as a matter of fact.	17:06
hiemanshu	ricky: is there a meeting log?	17:06
ricky	Of course, how that gets implemented and for example, how the page targetted at people that know what they want is presented is still up to us	17:06
ricky	hiemanshu: It wasn't an IRC meeting, so there's no log, but there are minutes posted on fedora-advisory-board	17:07
onekopaka	ricky: a phone meeting?	17:07
ricky	#link https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-advisory-board/2009-July/msg00090.html board meeting minutes	17:07
hiemanshu	ricky: hmmm, i wanted to read it out so i can have a proper idea what people really think	17:07
ricky	hiemanshu: The summary of what a lot of people think is that the original design of the get-fedora page got derailed by trying to please everybody	17:08
* hiemanshu agrees		17:08
onekopaka	especially with KDE.	17:08
stickster	ricky: And in addition, we don't have a good enough presentation for the many custom spins that are done every cycle.	17:08
ricky	For example the random inconsistent buttons on the left side that links to different arches/desktop environments	17:08
ricky	Ah, yes - one big part that I left out is a redesign of spins.fedoraproject.org	17:09
hiemanshu	ricky: a cleaner look like what other Distros have (Gentoo & Debian) would be better	17:09
stickster	The Board wants two redesigns to happen. One will be a clear route to a single default spin that is the landing place for people who are new to Fedora or Linux in general.	17:09
stickster	The second is a better showcase for all spins regardless of origin	17:09
ricky	hiemanshu: Heh, I've looked at Debian's in the past, and unless they've changed, I don't want our download experience to be like that :-)	17:09
onekopaka	DEBIAN!!	17:09
ricky	So there's get-fedora and spins.fedoraproject.org	17:10
onekopaka	debian's is bad.	17:10
hiemanshu	ricky: well we shows the archs and show options like the get-fedora-all page	17:10
onekopaka	hiemanshu: no it doesn't.	17:10
ricky	The requirements for get-fedora are basically to be friendly to the types of people listed in stickster's email	17:10
stickster	Design has to be informed by knowing whom a page is intended to serve.	17:10
hiemanshu	ricky: well most people love it NEAT and CLEAN	17:10
onekopaka	hiemanshu: http://www.debian.org/distrib/	17:10
stickster	By defining the audience it will be easier to produce an effective design.	17:10
onekopaka	hiemanshu: says nothing about archs, KDE, Xfce, or anything like that.	17:11
ricky	The requirement for spins.fedoraproject.org is that it targets people who basically knows what a spin is and why they'd want to use one - does that sound right, stickster?	17:11
caillon	yes	17:11
stickster	ricky: We still have to bring more detail to that, but yes, that's the general idea	17:11
hiemanshu	onekopaka: i mean by the ARCHs option, on the DVD FTP page	17:11
ricky	Oh cool, thanks for making this, caillon	17:11
onekopaka	hiemanshu: that's an FTP directory listing, which we have too.	17:11
ricky	One interesting part of spins.fedoraproject.org is that we want to allow the spins creators to be able to modify descriptions, etc. of their own spin's pages (while sticking to the websites schedule of course)	17:12
hiemanshu	onekopaka: havent seen it much	17:12
ricky	So we'd like to have the spins.fp.o redesign ready for F12	17:13
onekopaka	hiemanshu: you just go to download.fedoraproject.org..	17:13
* hiemanshu will try a mockup		17:13
ricky	It might not be 100% complete in terms of the process for spins creators to enter their info, but I'd like it to be complete from the user-facing side	17:13
hiemanshu	ricky: for Spin creators i have an idea though	17:14
onekopaka	hiemanshu: you said before that you can't do a mockup to save your life.	17:14
stickster	ricky: I think we'd definitely be able to accommodate custom content even at the outset -- although it might be a more centralized process of getting that onto the page	17:14
hiemanshu	onekopaka: i said i cant, but i have been learning GIMP lately	17:14
stickster	Later we might try for more decentralized administration	17:14
ricky	stickster: Yeah, at worst, the process would be getting everybody into the web group and having them commit directly to fedora-web.git (while being aware of string freeze dates, etc.0	17:14
stickster	ricky: Right.	17:15
hiemanshu	ricky: but you can make custom gits as well	17:15
ricky	For F12, this will probably be done as something in the style of what we have in the git repo	17:15
hiemanshu	ricky: its might be a little messy but secure	17:15
ricky	For F13 and beyond, we could look at whether something like zikula would fulfill our needs of being easy to edit/translate by spins creators better	17:16
onekopaka	hmm.	17:16
stickster	Anyway, I think the main points to understand from the Websites team perspective are: 1. The requirements will be developed openly by the Board on the FAB list. 2. The requirements will form the basis for the designs the Board will consider and approve. 3. We are sincerely trying for a F12 rollout if possible.	17:16
stickster	and	17:16
stickster	4. The plan is that the Websites team will serve as the implementation point, as is the case currently.	17:17
onekopaka	mmkay.	17:17
* hiemanshu is always ready to help		17:18
ricky	stickster: implementation = design + HTML/CSS/etc. for fitting the goals set by the board, right?	17:18
caillon	though the board has a set of general requirements already, and i think paul's post covers that as do the minutes. we're looking for questions from e.g. the websites team to help fill in the gaps	17:18
ricky	OK, so just to get some tasks out there:	17:19
hiemanshu	caillon: best way to contact he board?	17:19
caillon	fedora-advisory-board@	17:19
stickster	The Board has specifically asked mizmo and ricky to lead, respectively, the visual design and the code generation/maintenance	17:19
stickster	ricky: ^ Is that clear enough?	17:19
ricky	#action subscribe to fedora-advisory-board and contribute to the discussion about the target audience of get-fedora and spins.fp.o	17:19
ricky	stickster: Yup, thanks	17:19
ricky	#link https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-advisory-board is the subscription page	17:20
stickster	ricky: Thanks	17:20
* hiemanshu just subscribed		17:21
ricky	The idea is for the discussions to take place for a week or two there, before stuff is finalized, and we can start looking at how well each mockup satisifies those goals	17:21
ricky	So does anybody from the board/websites have any questions/comments on this?	17:21
caillon	hiemanshu, also, worth noting is there is a public IRC board meeting next thursday, Q&A are welcome there	17:22
onekopaka	#info Public IRC FAB meeting next thursday, Q&A welcome	17:22
ricky	#link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board/IRC	17:22
hiemanshu	caillon: i am not here next thursday, have an operation on wednesday so i will not be able to make it	17:22
ricky	hiemanshu: Good luck, hope you get will soon :-)	17:23
hiemanshu	ricky: do we have many mockups ready for the board to choose or take one and polish it?	17:23
ricky	**well	17:23
hiemanshu	ricky: thank you :)	17:23
ricky	hiemanshu: I know mizmo has some mockups for get-fedora and spins.fp.o that she might clean up to make sure they meet the new requirements	17:23
ricky	Everybody's welcome to join in with the mockups of course	17:23
hiemanshu	ricky: i could try one	17:24
stickster	I'll find those spins mockups, hang on	17:24
* hiemanshu waits		17:24
stickster	Well, these are older ones	17:25
stickster	I think they were based on the idea of including a spin generator on the site. We are deliberately *not* including that in the scope of this redesign. It could be added later.	17:25
hiemanshu	stickster: we could take THOSE and polish them to the new needs	17:25
stickster	[2]	17:26
stickster	[3]	17:26
stickster	I think those were in the originally designed group of mockups	17:26
* ricky likes the idea of a visual explanation of what a spin is :-)		17:27
* hiemanshu nods		17:27
stickster	The first is more of a central site, a portal which is nicer than a big FTP list of .iso files	17:27
-!- caillon [n=caillon@c-98-248-36-51.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)		17:27
* hiemanshu hates the Tracker idea though		17:27
stickster	The second is a per-spin page, where each spin owner/SIG could describe how awesome its spin is.	17:27
ricky	As a side note, there's a spin that already has its own page based on another design: http://chitlesh.fedorapeople.org/FEL/	17:27
ricky	Anyway, just dumping a bunch of previous work out here that design people can hopefully draw some good ideas from :-)	17:28
ricky	For example, one question is - how much space for information, etc. should be given to each spin?	17:28
hiemanshu	ricky: could we have a web & design joint meeting?	17:29
hiemanshu	Since they are both closely related and we would know more people who can help us	17:29
ricky	Sure, although mizmo is the main design person that has been doing most of the web mockups :-)	17:29
stickster	ricky: I think those details are well worth parsing out with the various designers. Details about how the visual design can best achieve the requirements.	17:29
ricky	We can talk to them on IRC in #fedora-design any time though - not sure how many of the active people on the mailing list are on IRC though	17:29
stickster	ricky: There are a couple options; one is to simply have discussions happen on the fedora-websites-list. In other words, Websites is the focal point for involved people bringing different skill sets in.	17:30
hiemanshu	ricky: i said meeting for that reason, so people know about it and take the effort to attend in	17:30
hiemanshu	it**	17:31
ricky	stickster: That's kind of what I envisioned in the cross-team effort that I think websites is :-)	17:31
stickster	ricky: I'm seeing that we're a half-hour in -- so if you have other business to cover don't feel like you have to hold this topic open for my and caillon's sake, although we're happy to stay as long as you require	17:31
stickster	ricky: I was throwing you a bone there, see?	17:31
ricky	Hehe :-)	17:31
ricky	OK, so is everybody good on this then?	17:32
hiemanshu	stickster: dont spoil the little boy :)	17:32
hiemanshu	ricky: yup	17:32
onekopaka	ricky: yep	17:32
ricky	Cool	17:32
ricky	#topic Tasks	17:32
-!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-websites to: Tasks (Meeting topic: Fedora Websites)		17:32
ricky	One tiny little update with my talk with docs	17:32
ricky	I just recently found out about http://docs.fedoraproject.org/installation-quick-start-guide/	17:33
ricky	I think if that got translated into a lot of languages like the installation guide, it might be something better to point to from get-fedora	17:33
ricky	#link http://docs.fedoraproject.org/installation-quick-start-guide/f11/en-US/html-single/	17:33
* nb would like to proceed to blogs asap.... i must be leaving soon		17:33
ricky	That has Live CD install instructions (which is what we're pushing as the default way of installation)	17:33
ricky	And screenshots, which I like :-)	17:34
ricky	OK, nb - do you want to talk about blogs?	17:34
hiemanshu	ricky: i heard a person complain about no live cd install guide	17:34
nb	ricky, sure	17:34
* nb does not have a whole lot to report, we are deployed to production, FAS auth is working, thanks to sijis		17:34
nb	we are working on making SSL work	17:34
nb	the only easy solution I can think of is make value1/2 listen on port 443 for SSL	17:35
hiemanshu	nb: pretty much same as last time we spoke?	17:35
nb	and have the proxy connect to it using SSL	17:35
ricky	And that's an idea that we're not crazy about in Infrastructure :-(	17:35
* onekopaka still doesn't know what to do about that HAproxy-side		17:35
nb	it detects the connection is not ssl, and so it starts a redirect loop because it is trying to redirect to https://blogs	17:35
nb	ricky, yeah	17:35
ricky	My suggestion would be to talk to other wordpress sysadmins	17:35
ricky	Either that, or dive into the code, and figure out how to fake wordpress-mu out	17:36
ricky	Well, preferably the first one first, since they might have an answer to the second :-)	17:36
hiemanshu	ricky: from being a wordpress admin for quite long, you cannot fake anything until it supports it	17:36
onekopaka	I did submit something to Barry's WP contact page.	17:36
nb	ricky, i will work on one or both of those ideas, i meant to last week but was otherwise occupied. I was elected last week as President of CAcert so I've been kind of busy	17:36
nb	onekopaka, who's barry?	17:36
ricky	Haha, congrats	17:36
onekopaka	nb: "Systems Wrangler" for Automattic.	17:37
nb	ricky, yeah, i wasn't even nominated for the board until the morning of our SGM (Special General Meeting)	17:37
hiemanshu	nb: Congrats mate	17:37
nb	someone mentioned why wasnt i on the list of candidates, i was like well, noone nominated me	17:37
hiemanshu	nb: back to blogs please ;)	17:37
ricky	OK, so apart from asking Barry, I guess we can see if there are any more sysadmin-types on their IRC chanenl	17:38
ricky	**channel	17:38
hiemanshu	ricky: #wordpressdev	17:38
nb	hiemanshu, yeah true	17:38
nb	ricky, and #wpmu	17:38
hiemanshu	ricky: oops wrong link	17:38
hiemanshu	nb: the channel closed down	17:39
ricky	:-(	17:39
ricky	I guess it's part of the merging with wordpress?	17:39
nb	#wpmu is not closed	17:39
nb	people are still there	17:39
ricky	Oh	17:39
onekopaka	#wordpressdev is?	17:39
ricky	Oh, heh	17:39
nb	oh ok	17:40
hiemanshu	yup #wordpressdev	17:40
* hiemanshu remembers visiting it a couple of weeks back		17:40
ricky	OK. If it's easier to do it with 100% https externally with http from haproxy though, I'm all for that too :-)	17:41
hiemanshu	/msg alis list *channelname* (within the *) works to find a list of channels in FreeNode	17:41
hiemanshu	ricky: i dont like the idea of faking it	17:41
ricky	OK, so does anybody have anything else on blogs?	17:41
onekopaka	nope.	17:41
hiemanshu	you ll need to edit core files	17:41
hiemanshu	which is what me mainly need	17:42
onekopaka	except	17:42
onekopaka	I have HAProxy on my server	17:42
onekopaka	same version as in infra	17:42
hiemanshu	onekopaka: i said wordpress faking	17:42
onekopaka	so we can test configs	17:42
ricky	hiemanshu: The changes would be worth sending upstream though	17:42
onekopaka	hiemanshu: I know.	17:42
hiemanshu	ricky: most people dont fake it, they leave it in HTTP or get a proper server to use it with	17:43
hiemanshu	onekopaka: so wordpress faking would require core file changes	17:43
onekopaka	hiemanshu: I know.	17:43
ricky	Yeah, but having one server with it exposed to the outside is not proper for us :-)	17:43
hiemanshu	unless we can do it in another way	17:43
onekopaka	hiemanshu: but I was going to say something.	17:43
ricky	But anyway, if it involves modifying code, make sure the modifications are good, and work to get them included upstream	17:43
hiemanshu	ricky: so FAKING is not we want, so rule that out	17:43
ricky	It might be good to ask ahead of time so that you don't step on their toes with the merging into wordpress	17:44
hiemanshu	ricky: why would people in wordpress include it?	17:44
hiemanshu	they dont want people to use FAKE SSL	17:44
ricky	Because it's a common setup to have a reverse proxy to an app server	17:44
onekopaka	ricky: not this way.	17:44
onekopaka	ricky: people will more likely use nginx, which is what wp.com uses.	17:45
ricky	mmcgrath and the folks in #fedora-admin have years more sysadmin experience than I do, so they say it's common, I believe him :-)	17:45
ricky	s/him/them	17:45
ricky	Anyway, until then:	17:46
onekopaka	http://barry.wordpress.com/2008/04/28/load-balancer-update/	17:46
ricky	#task Make a clear notice on http://blogs.fedoraproject.org/wp/ that it's not 100% ready yet and warn people NOT to login without SSL	17:46
onekopaka	they do have a proxy > app server infra.	17:46
onekopaka	but it's not with HAproxy	17:46
onekopaka	it's with nginx.	17:47
-!- Sonar_Guy [n=Who@fedora/sonarguy] has quit "Leaving"		17:47
ricky	OK, but is proxy -> app http or https?	17:47
onekopaka	ricky: I tried to ask, but I can't find out.	17:47
hiemanshu	ricky: an httpd change would serve us better than a WPMU change	17:48
onekopaka	ricky: and who knows? maybe nginx sends through the fact that it's ssl.	17:48
hiemanshu	onekopaka: #nginx	17:48
* hiemanshu will be back in a few		17:48
ricky	Well, we're sticking with haproxy for the near future, so it's probably better to concentrate on getting things to work with that	17:49
onekopaka	back to what I tried to say	17:49
onekopaka	I have HAProxy on my server so we can test configs without screwing up the infra ones.	17:49
ricky	OK, then let us know if you have any luck with the setup we need.	17:50
ricky	So does anybody else have anything else on blogs?	17:50
onekopaka	I haven't had luck and that's the problem	17:50
onekopaka	I don't know people who know all the options of HAProxy.	17:50
ricky	Also, does anybody want to take that task real quick after the meeting?	17:50
onekopaka	because the documentation doesn't help.	17:51
-!- susmit [n=susmit@59.93.242.198] has joined #fedora-websites		17:51
-!- susmit [n=susmit@59.93.242.198] has quit Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)		17:51
ricky	Oops,	17:51
ricky	#action Make a clear notice on http://blogs.fedoraproject.org/wp/ that it's not 100% ready yet and warn people NOT to login without SSL	17:51
ricky	onekopaka: Can you get that ^?	17:52
onekopaka	I guess.	17:52
* hiemanshu is back		17:52
ricky	Cool.	17:52
hiemanshu	ricky: what task?	17:52
ricky	Look a few lines up :-)	17:53
hiemanshu	ricky: i see two taks	17:53
hiemanshu	tasks*	17:53
hiemanshu	1)Proxy 2) the action stuff	17:53
* onekopaka is still upset that the theme totally screws the admin bar.		17:53
hiemanshu	onekopaka: which theme?	17:53
ricky	onekopaka: Feel free to work on fixes	17:54
onekopaka	hiemanshu: the blogs.fp.o theme.	17:54
onekopaka	it's really f'ing anoying	17:54
onekopaka	annoying*	17:54
hiemanshu	onekopaka: i can help with that	17:54
onekopaka	because there's no site admin link in the sidebar	17:54
onekopaka	I have no idea how the admin bar got screwed up	17:55
onekopaka	why it gets thrown in the FOOTER.	17:55
nb	onekopaka, we can add a site admin link	17:55
ricky	#action Fix the problem iwth the admin bar	17:55
ricky	OK, we're near the 1 hour mark, so	17:55
ricky	#topic Open floor	17:55
-!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-websites to: Open floor (Meeting topic: Fedora Websites)		17:55
ricky	Anything else to discuss this meeting?	17:55
onekopaka	and the admin bar is the cleanest way to get to various admin pages.	17:55
hiemanshu	First off ricky thanks for making the right choice ;)	17:55
ricky	Thanks to the board for their attention to the get-fedora thing - if there are any questions in the future about the target audience for those pages, we can just tell them to take it to the board :-)	17:56
* hiemanshu will make it a point to read the emails and know what the board wants		17:57
onekopaka	so back to my local HAProxy story..	17:57
hiemanshu	onekopaka: yeah go on	17:57
onekopaka	we need a couple servers that run SSL.	17:57
onekopaka	I have one.	17:57
onekopaka	(this is just for testing HAProxy config)	17:58
ricky	You can always run two on different port	17:58
ricky	**ports	17:58
hiemanshu	onekopaka: i can try ask my clients for a couple	17:58
hiemanshu	asking**	17:58
onekopaka	ricky: nope. I wouldn't do such a thing.	17:58
-!- sijis_afk is now known as sijis		17:59
onekopaka	ricky: it was already a pain to get SSL working in the first place.	17:59
onekopaka	so	17:59
hiemanshu	sijis: too early for the next meeting ;)	17:59
onekopaka	it just needs to have SSL, and be willing to be hit by my HAProxy instance	17:59
onekopaka	my IP, incase you want to track, is 76.121.249.193	18:00
hiemanshu	onekopaka: i have a shared web server, not sure if that would work	18:00
onekopaka	hiemanshu: does it have SSL accessible?	18:00
hiemanshu	onekopaka: yup	18:00
hiemanshu	onekopaka: i can give you the details if you want to have a look	18:00
onekopaka	hmm	18:01
onekopaka	so	18:02
sijis	hiemanshu: :)	18:02
onekopaka	I may be willing to open an account on my mac for you people to obtain access.	18:02
onekopaka	maybe.	18:02
onekopaka	so.	18:03
hiemanshu	onekopaka: would love to ;)	18:03
hiemanshu	sijis: read the logs, lots of stuff happening	18:03
sijis	hiemanshu: yup.. will do. gotta fix my monitor resolution though.. i jackked it up :(	18:04
hiemanshu	sijis: changed it 640x480 huh?	18:04
hiemanshu	or 320x240?	18:04
ricky	OK, we're a bit over the hour mark, so I'll end the meeting for now, and we can continue talking here	18:04
ricky	#endmeeting	18:04
onekopaka	anyone who would want access would have to send their public key my way.	18:04
-!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-websites to: The Fedora Websites team maintains the official Fedora Project websites (http://fedoraproject.org/) | Want to help us? Contact the respective leaders listed here : http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites#Projects | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites		18:04
zodbot	Meeting ended Fri Jul 31 18:04:30 2009 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot .	18:04
zodbot	Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-websites/2009-07-31/fedora-websites.2009-07-31-17.00.html	18:04
zodbot	Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-websites/2009-07-31/fedora-websites.2009-07-31-17.00.txt	18:04
zodbot	Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-websites/2009-07-31/fedora-websites.2009-07-31-17.00.log.html	18:04

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