From Fedora Project Wiki
Attendees
People present (lines said)
- jlaska (127)
- adamw (37)
- Viking-Ice (23)
- kparal (18)
- rbergeron (4)
- jskladan_home (3)
- wwoods (2)
Unable to attend:
Agenda
Previous meeting follow-up
- Bodhi feedback patch from fcami (see
infrastructure ticket#701awaiting review
Call for Test Days
- Owner
- AdamW
- Summary
- Call for ideas/owners for Fedora 15 QA/Test_Days
- Monitor list of approved features for ideas
- Several events scheduled so far (GNOME 3, Xfce 4.8 and X Test Week)
- Hurry and Alam scheduled another l10n/i18n test day (see https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-qa/ticket/158)
- Next steps ...
- Schedule systemd event?
- HELP - Approaching last call to pitch (or host) test days for Fedora 15.
- Reach out to xorg-x11-drv maintainers to see if they want to move the test week at all
Requirements review for Fedora test case management
- Owner
- rhe
- Summary
- See
fedora-qa ticket#152-- Requirements review for Fedora test case management - Hurry drafting requirements at Rhe/tcms_requirements_proposal
- Use case identification -- see https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Rhe/tcms_use_cases
- Use case comparison -- see https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Rhe/tcms_Comparison
- Next steps ...
- HELP - More feedback needed from testers (anyone who has participated or hosted an installation test event or test day)
Critical Path test case development
- Owner
- adamwill
- Summary
- See
fedora-qa ticket#154 - Still experimenting with some mock-ups/examples
- Next steps ...
- HELP - More feedback needed from testers and developers
- If no additional feedback, and we assume no news is good news, the next step is converting existing test cases, and getting people started writing new ones developed
- Reach out to f-e-k and bodhi teams to discuss tools integration
AutoQA Update
- Owner
- kparal
- Summary
- Kparal pushed mkrizek's support for staging server into master
- Next steps ...
- What's the status of depcheck?
- Merge clumens branch into master
Open discussion - <Your topic here>
Suggestions for improving IRC meetings
- Owner - jlaska
- Summary
- Jlaska asked for ideas/thoughts on improving IRC meetings
- Suggestions included ...
- Merge BugZappers and QA meetings
- Post and solicit meeting topics on Friday, conditionally host meetings on Monday
- Next steps ...
- Will post and solicit topics on Friday
- No current action, but open to merging BugZapper and QA meetings in the future
Action items
IRC Transcript
| jlaska | #startmeeting Fedora QA Meeting | 16:00 |
|---|---|---|
| zodbot | Meeting started Mon Jan 3 16:00:00 2011 UTC. The chair is jlaska. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| zodbot | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. | 16:00 |
| jlaska | #meetingname fedora-qa | 16:00 |
| zodbot | The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa' | 16:00 |
| jlaska | #topic Gathering in the lobby | 16:00 |
| * kparal welcome | 16:00 | |
| jlaska | Happy 2011 fedora-qa! Who is ready to join me hosting the first awesome meeting of 2011? | 16:01 |
| * jskladan_home is lurking from the shadows, but will be departing soon :-/ | 16:01 | |
| jlaska | howdy jskladan and kparal | 16:01 |
| jlaska | mkrizek is out this week, so hopefully he's hitting the books hard | 16:02 |
| jlaska | and wwoods is now fully transitioned over to anaconda-devel | 16:02 |
| wwoods | well, I'm still lurking here | 16:03 |
| * rbergeron peeks in | 16:03 | |
| wwoods | but unofficially! | 16:03 |
| jlaska | Anyone else lurking? Viking-Ice, robatino, adamw etc... | 16:03 |
| jlaska | rbergeron: hi there :) | 16:04 |
| rbergeron | jlaska: howdy sir! | 16:04 |
| kparal | I think adamw has holiday, if he's in Canada | 16:04 |
| * Viking-Ice drops in Happy New year ;) | 16:04 | |
| jlaska | oh goodness, my gnome-shell session just froze .... one moment while I recover folks | 16:06 |
| jlaska | apologies for delay | 16:06 |
| jlaska | okay ... we'll run this from the console then ... | 16:06 |
| jlaska | #topic Previous meeting follow-up | 16:07 |
| jlaska | The only item I had on the list was tracking the bodhi patch that fcame sent out for review | 16:07 |
| jlaska | kparal: thanks, I didn't realize today was a holiday in Canada | 16:08 |
| jlaska | I haven't seen any updates in the ticket. I have it listed as infrastructure ticket#701, but I think I must have typo'd that from a previous meeting | 16:10 |
| jlaska | Will likely need to catch up with fcami and lmacken for an update here | 16:10 |
| jlaska | So ... into the agenda ... | 16:11 |
| jlaska | Nothing earth shattering planned for today ... just a recap on current activities so we don't completely forget what we were working on | 16:11 |
| jlaska | #topic Fedora 15 Test Days | 16:11 |
| jlaska | The schedule looks pretty good so far | 16:11 |
| jlaska | The open items I have are that AdamW was waiting to hear back from mezcalero on the timing of a systemd test day | 16:12 |
| jlaska | Aside from that ... there are still a handfull of open slots remaining (7 slots) | 16:12 |
| jlaska | we don't have to have each of these filled of course, and as AdamW notes, while they are typically held on Thursdays ... folks are certainly welcome to choose a more applicable day of the week | 16:13 |
| rbergeron | jlaska: does the QA team normally have these test days individually added / detailed on the Fedora schedule? | 16:13 |
| Viking-Ice | If they suddenly will get filed we might need to drop some of those Gnome-Shell event I think I saw AdamW marked three testdays dedicated to Gnome-shell.. | 16:14 |
| jlaska | rbergeron: no, we've debated adding them to the official schedule, but given the dynamic nature of the test day slots ... we've held off on doing that | 16:14 |
| jlaska | Viking-Ice: that'll be a good problem to have! Too many people interested in hosting events :) | 16:14 |
| Viking-Ice | hehe ;) | 16:14 |
| jlaska | I understand that the 3 gnome-shell events lines up with what was requested on @desktop list and based on feedback from some of the upstream GNOME QA folks | 16:15 |
| jlaska | rbergeron: does that answer your q? | 16:15 |
| rbergeron | jlaska: indeed. | 16:15 |
* jlaska trying to figure out how to cut'n'paste links from links
|
16:15 | |
| jlaska | #info If anyone has topic suggestions, or would like to host an event, please reach out on test@lists.fedoraproject.org | 16:16 |
| Viking-Ice | Has not experience tough us not being hosting *DE test days until after alpha just before beta + I think we would need to host the systemd test day before Gnome-shell one | 16:16 |
| jlaska | #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Fedora_15_test_days | 16:16 |
| Viking-Ice | perhaps all the graphics card related once as well ( Intel Radeon Nouveaou ) | 16:17 |
| jlaska | Viking-Ice: definitely! I know that idea came up with regards to priorizing the xorg-x11-drv* stuff before the shell events | 16:17 |
| Viking-Ice | yeah I think systemd should be there as well | 16:18 |
| jlaska | okay | 16:18 |
| jlaska | #info Viking-Ice suggested that systemd and xorg-x11-drv-* test days should be scheduled *before* gnome-shell events | 16:18 |
| jlaska | anything else on the test day topic? | 16:18 |
| jlaska | Alright ... | 16:20 |
| jlaska | #topic Fedora TCMS use case review | 16:20 |
| jlaska | Just a quick heads up on some of the work Hurry has been doing ... | 16:20 |
| jlaska | #link http://fedorahosted.org/fedora-qa/ticket/152 | 16:20 |
| jlaska | She has drafted 2 new pages ... | 16:20 |
| jlaska | #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Rhe/tcms_use_cases - to list all of our current test management use cases | 16:21 |
| jlaska | #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Rhe/tcms_Comparison - Comparison of the features of the different use cases | 16:21 |
| jlaska | I find that second document very readible ... but I like tables and colors :) | 16:21 |
| jlaska | As always, I'm sure any ideas or suggestions to help Hurry move forward on this subject would be appreciated | 16:22 |
| Viking-Ice | I prefer the tables and colors as well | 16:23 |
| jlaska | I believe the first goal is to identify and document all current uses of the wiki for test management (cases, plans and results) | 16:23 |
| adamw | hiya | 16:23 |
| adamw | sorry, lunch overran... | 16:23 |
| jlaska | from there, and I'm not sure of the order, to identify which features are present in nitrate, and to prioritize the missing features so they are on the nitrate development roadmap | 16:24 |
| jlaska | adamw: hi there! | 16:24 |
| jlaska | Viking-Ice: okay | 16:24 |
| jlaska | adamw: no worries, we actually thought you were on holiday today | 16:24 |
| * jlaska suspects this is all part of the adamw beach beverage plan | 16:24 | |
| jlaska | good timing though ... | 16:25 |
| adamw | wasn't sure if we were supposed to be on holiday or not | 16:25 |
| jlaska | #topic CritPath Test Case development | 16:25 |
| jlaska | #link http://fedorahosted.org/fedora-qa/ticket/154 | 16:25 |
| jlaska | adamw: I'm still coming up to speed on your latest here, but it looks like you have some new drafts/mock-ups? | 16:25 |
| adamw | well, just what i did right before xmas | 16:26 |
| adamw | they're not new, exactly, i just picked a set of existing test cases and converted them to the new naming scheme as an exampke | 16:26 |
| jlaska | I'm cut'n'paste deficient at the moment ... got any handy links? | 16:26 |
| adamw | you can drill down from https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Test_Cases to see how it works | 16:27 |
| adamw | to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Package_xorg-x11-drv-ati_test_cases and https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Critical_path_test_cases | 16:27 |
| jlaska | nice! | 16:27 |
| jlaska | I still have a few unread updates from you on the subject, I'll try to respond and clarify and comments shortly | 16:28 |
| jlaska | any other updates or next steps you want to share? | 16:28 |
| adamw | well, i was kinda hoping for some feedback over xmas break, but haven't seen any | 16:29 |
| adamw | if we assume no news is good news then next step is simply continuing to convert existing test cases, and getting people started writing new ones | 16:30 |
| jlaska | #help Feedback on ticket#152 and ticket#154 needed | 16:30 |
| adamw | then talking to the tool devs | 16:30 |
| jlaska | #info Need more feedback from testers/developers | 16:30 |
| jlaska | sounds great, thanks adamw | 16:30 |
| jlaska | #topic AutoQA Updates | 16:31 |
| kparal | ah | 16:31 |
| jlaska | kparal: what's the latest? Do we have a holiday easter egg implanted in autoqa now? :) | 16:31 |
| kparal | I don't really have anything prepared for today. I must admit I haven't been working on autoqa over christmas :) | 16:32 |
| jskladan_home | neither have I | 16:32 |
| * jskladan_home blushes | 16:32 | |
| kparal | but today I pushed to master mkrizek's support for staging server | 16:32 |
| jlaska | good for you guys! | 16:32 |
| kparal | so at least mkrizek deserves kudos | 16:32 |
| jlaska | heh ... already mkrizek :) | 16:32 |
| jlaska | kparal: in general, how are things looking for the next %{version} of autoqa? | 16:33 |
| jlaska | or is it too soon to tell? | 16:33 |
| kparal | well, I am not sure how it looks about depcheck | 16:34 |
| kparal | I am sure we can adjust the koji watcher in time | 16:34 |
| kparal | I believe the next release should occur this month | 16:35 |
| jlaska | cool! I'm not sure on the status of depcheck either, I started a thread with wwoods on that topic, so hopefully we'll know more soon. | 16:35 |
| jlaska | clumens and I finished up some work on his private branch, which includes a new installer test called 'compose-tree' that does a pungi test whenever a new anaconda is built in koji | 16:36 |
| jlaska | I also have a preliminary git-post-receive hook (along with companion .wsgi app) to allow us to trigger tests based on 'git push's | 16:37 |
| kparal | sounds great | 16:37 |
| kparal | what's the wsgi app for? | 16:38 |
| jlaska | the wsgi app is how the git-watcher triggers tests on the autoqa server | 16:38 |
| kparal | ok | 16:38 |
| jlaska | I'll have to document this in more detail of course, I took a stab at a long README in the hook directory for this | 16:38 |
| jlaska | but I'm sure it'll need more docs | 16:38 |
| jlaska | oh, I should also mention that Hongqing Yang joined the group in Beijing. He's tasked with coming up to speed on our installation testing and looking for areas to automate | 16:40 |
| jlaska | alright ... open-discussion time ... | 16:40 |
| jlaska | #topic Open discussion - <your topic here> | 16:40 |
| jlaska | quick topic for rbergeron ... are there any open items related to QA and the F15 schedule? | 16:40 |
| kparal | jlaska: does that mean that Honqging will cooperate with clumens or will it be a separate task? | 16:41 |
| jlaska | kparal: unsure at this time ... they may end up converging, but the initial scope is somewhat different | 16:41 |
| jlaska | Another question for everyone ... | 16:42 |
| jlaska | #info Are there any suggestions/ideas on how we can make our weekly meetings more effective? | 16:42 |
| Viking-Ice | Merge Bug Zappers meetings with this one | 16:43 |
| jlaska | Change the format, change the frequency, rotate meeting chair, More open to topic submissions etc... | 16:43 |
| jlaska | Viking-Ice: that's an idea ... hmmm | 16:43 |
| kparal | it depends what 'more effective' means... shorter? :) | 16:43 |
| jlaska | kparal: to me, more effective means it served a purpose, and we all found it a valuable use of our time | 16:44 |
| adamw | do we think it's currently ineffective? | 16:44 |
| jlaska | and shorter would be nice! | 16:44 |
| Viking-Ice | posting the topics with a bit more advance then hour before meeting ;) | 16:44 |
| jlaska | adamw: I don't think it's ineffective, but I think it could be more effective | 16:44 |
| jlaska | Viking-Ice: that's always something I struggle with ... indeed, I could do a better job of that | 16:44 |
| adamw | do 'em on friday | 16:44 |
| adamw | put them on a wiki page people can edit | 16:45 |
| jlaska | the meetings, or the agenda? | 16:45 |
| adamw | agenda | 16:45 |
| jlaska | hmm, likey | 16:45 |
| jlaska | that might facilitate more topic suggestions | 16:45 |
| adamw | that's how we do/did it for bugzappers, it works fine when people actually have things to contribute | 16:45 |
| adamw | in fact it was just a rolling list | 16:45 |
| * jlaska would like to stop carrying all the topics | 16:45 | |
| adamw | whoever does the meeting announcement grabs everything off the list and puts it in | 16:45 |
| jlaska | well, that's a quick fix I can implement for the next meeting ... thanks! | 16:46 |
| jlaska | following that idea ... if there are no topic submissions, is it acceptable to not have a meeting? | 16:47 |
| adamw | fine by me. | 16:47 |
| jlaska | is it *bad* if we go 2/3/4 weeks without a meeting? I would think that means we have a problem somewhere, no? | 16:47 |
| Viking-Ice | I think the bug zappers meeting should be merged with this one | 16:47 |
| adamw | but we have some recurring topics at present which would cause that to be very unlikely. | 16:47 |
| jlaska | #topic Improve QA meetings | 16:48 |
| jlaska | #info idea - Merge BugZappers and QA meetings | 16:48 |
| jlaska | #info idea - Post and solicit meeting topics on Friday, conditionally host meetings on Monday | 16:48 |
| kparal | I have just a slight idea how BugZappers meeting look like. but keeping it separate looks more reasonable to me | 16:48 |
| Viking-Ice | why ? | 16:49 |
| jlaska | Viking-Ice: sounds like we should also raise this for discussion on the next BugZapper meeting? | 16:49 |
| kparal | Viking-Ice: because going over proposed bugs is outside of my usual tasks | 16:49 |
| Viking-Ice | yeah it was them that split of the process from QA in the first place so they might not like it so much | 16:50 |
| jlaska | Viking-Ice: I wouldn't completely kill the idea, but seems worth more info/exploration | 16:50 |
| adamw | kparal: that's not what happens in bugzappers meetings | 16:50 |
| kparal | adamw: ah, ok. so first I should attend one, before speaking, sorry :) | 16:51 |
| Viking-Ice | having one meeting for the whole QA community is what I'm after it will alow reporters to be a bit more aware of what's happening on that side | 16:51 |
| adamw | kparal: you can see logs at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/teams/bugzappers/ if you like | 16:51 |
| Viking-Ice | I personally never attend any "BugZappers" meeting | 16:51 |
| adamw | we haven't actually had many bugzappers meetings at all lately so it's somewhat academic | 16:51 |
| jlaska | Well, by being more transparent with collecting meeting topics for this meeting, we can certainly encourage more BugZapper participation | 16:52 |
| jlaska | if the meetings consistently go over 1 hour in length, I would probably have to shoot myself | 16:53 |
| jlaska | That'd be my personal goal :) | 16:53 |
| Viking-Ice | from my stand point we all work as one group or we split of QE in their corners bugzapper in theirs and reporters in their corners | 16:53 |
| kparal | after reading the logs, it doesn't seem so bad. taking back my statement :) | 16:53 |
| jlaska | Viking-Ice: let's start the discussion with the bugzappers ... see what they think | 16:54 |
| jlaska | I don't think it's as black and white as you articulate (QA vs BugZappers) ... but I'm open to combining the meetings | 16:54 |
| jlaska | for this week, I'll adjust the meeting topic process. | 16:55 |
| adamw | can we go back to test days, since I missed that bit of the meeting? | 16:55 |
| jlaska | sure ... you got 4 minutes :) | 16:56 |
| jlaska | #topic Fedora 15 Test Days | 16:56 |
| jlaska | adamw: any updates/topics/cautionary_tales to add? | 16:56 |
| adamw | just to say the ordering of the test days i've put in so far isn't just me throwing stuff at a wall | 16:56 |
| adamw | the gnome test day schedule is based on me talking to the desktop team, that's the schedule they want | 16:56 |
| * jlaska nods | 16:56 | |
| adamw | we don't need to do the systemd test day before the gnome3 test days unless we're particularly scared that zillions of people will be unable to boot f15, which by all current experience isn't the caes | 16:57 |
| Viking-Ice | I propose xorg-x11-drv test and systemd before first gnome-shell test | 16:57 |
| adamw | we can't do that, practically speaking | 16:57 |
| Viking-Ice | why | 16:57 |
| adamw | wouldn't be enough time for everything | 16:57 |
| Viking-Ice | ? | 16:58 |
| adamw | systemd and xorg devs don't want their test days really early | 16:58 |
| adamw | especially for xorg, it'd mean we were testing code with little relevance to what we were actually going to ship | 16:58 |
| jlaska | Viking-Ice: it sounds like current schedule was developed in conjunction with desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org ... /me searches for desktop@ link | 16:59 |
| Viking-Ice | yeah well we have had problems in the past with the X not being in good enough shape before *DE tests when hosting DE before the X tests | 16:59 |
| adamw | the only particular benefit of doing them before gnome3 test days is if we're really worried systemd or x drivers are going to cause lots of people to be unable to get into gnome3, yes? at present that doesn't look like it'd be the case | 16:59 |
| adamw | jlaska: most of the discussion was on irc, but i can provide a log if anyone wants (i'd have to check with mclasen first as it was in /query) | 16:59 |
| jlaska | Viking-Ice: I don't have a lot of data on the retrospective pages about people being unable to test desktop environments due to a large number of xorg-x11-drv issues | 16:59 |
| Viking-Ice | F8 and F9 X changes and radeon | 17:00 |
| jlaska | That's when we introduced modesetting for the first time, right? | 17:01 |
| Viking-Ice | yeah | 17:01 |
| adamw | we could move X up to late february, but i'd have to check with the X devs | 17:01 |
| jlaska | okay | 17:01 |
| jlaska | I don't think we're in the same boat with regards to disruptive core xorg-x11-drv-* changes like we were when modesetting landed | 17:01 |
| adamw | systemd really doesn't worry me, we've had people using it for quite a long time now and it really hasn't presented any problems | 17:01 |
| adamw | the systemd test day will be 'polishing advanced use cases' not 'omg does this thing work', i think | 17:02 |
| Viking-Ice | adamw: not on fresh install I dont think it's the same with upgrades. . . | 17:02 |
| adamw | Viking-Ice: that's fine. we don't get many people doing upgrades for test days. | 17:02 |
| jlaska | alright, we've exceeded the one hour limit ... let's start to wrap-up | 17:02 |
| jlaska | so summary ... | 17:02 |
| jlaska | * reach out to xorg devs to see if there is any wiggle room for the Xorg Test Week? | 17:03 |
| jlaska | * Add upgrades to the list of use cases to explore during systemd test day? | 17:03 |
| jlaska | </proposed> | 17:03 |
| jlaska | adamw: Viking-Ice: that sound right? | 17:04 |
| adamw | sure | 17:04 |
| Viking-Ice | yup | 17:04 |
| jlaska | eggsellent | 17:04 |
| jlaska | okay folks ... let's close out unless there are any other topics | 17:04 |
| jlaska | #topic Open Discussion - <your topic here> | 17:04 |
| * jlaska sets the fuse for 1 minute | 17:05 | |
| jlaska | 15 seconds... | 17:05 |
| jlaska | Thanks for your time everyone! | 17:06 |
| jlaska | I'll follow-up with minutes to the list | 17:06 |
| jlaska | #endmeeting | 17:06 |
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