From Fedora Project Wiki
Attendees
People present (lines said)
- jlaska (154)
- adamw (92)
- Viking-Ice (34)
- kparal (26)
- rbergeron (5)
- brunowolff (4)
- fenrus02 (2)
- mkrizek (2)
- jsmith (2)
Unable to attend:
Agenda
Previous meeting follow-up
- Bodhi feedback patch from fcami (see
infrastructure ticket#701awaiting review
- No updates on https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/bodhi/2010-December/000543.html
- jlaska will ping lmacken after meeting
Update on critpath test definition (ticket#154)
- Owner
- adamwill
- Summary
- See
fedora-qa ticket#154 - The new system has gone public (see announcement at http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test-announce/2011-January/000171.html)
- Adamw started converting test cases to the new category system, I have about half of our existing test cases done now
- mailed infrastructure list to discuss the possibility of adding a mediawiki extension which would allow multi-category search (see http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/infrastructure/2011-January/009829.html)
- Discussed the possibility of adding multi-category searching to the python-simplemediawiki API
- Next steps ...
- Need to determine if/how to handle Category recursion on the wiki
- IDEA: Discuss new test case SOP and wiki organization at FUDCon Tempe
Latest and greatest on autoqa-0.4.4
- Owner
- kparal
- Summary
- Simplified the test object template a bit by using 'self.__class__' where possible - So easy, a three year old can do it (see https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/autoqa-devel/2011-January/001494.html)
- clumens installer branch merged - New git-post-receive hook and several installer tests (anaconda_checkbot, anaconda_storage and compose_tree) (see https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/autoqa-devel/2011-January/001473.html)
- mkrizek implemented logging support and unittest execution support. This stuff is now in separate branches and will be merged once we have a little time to review it (see https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/ticket/196 [logging] and https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/ticket/258 [unittest])
- jskladan adjusted his 'new_koji_watcher' patch and the debate ensued (see https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/autoqa-devel/2011-January/001485.html)
- wwoods posted 'depcheck' patch (see https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/autoqa-devel/2011-January/001512.html
- hongqing researching anaconda virtio support and integrating that into rats_install/install.py (see https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Anaconda/Logging)
- Next steps ...
-
- Review outstanding patches and merge into master
- Resolve remaining outstanding tickets for for autoqa-0.4.4.
Update on TCMS nitrate analysis (ticket#152)
- Owner
- rhe
- Summary
- See
fedora-qa ticket#152 - TCMS Use Cases available at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Rhe/tcms_use_cases
- Rhe regrouped the use cases by general and main test events(runs) use cases. The general cases cover the basic uses of wiki, and the events cases covers the detailed certain steps for organizing the events.
- Wiki and Nitrate comparison available at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Rhe/tcms_Comparison
- The comparison is grouped according to the use cases. It has overlaps between each other which I need to further update. But the basic idea is shown, please review them and welcome to provide any comments about the grouping idea/design format/contents.
- Next steps ...
- HELP - Feedback needed ... last chance!
- Identify and prioritize MUSTHAVE and SHOULDHAVE features
- Begin roll-out of staging server for testing during Fedora 15
Open discussion - <Your topic here>
Media_Handout_Requirement
- Owner
- Viking-Ice
- Summary
- Viking-Ice drew attention to recent advisory board discussion on SPINs and test plans (see http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/advisory-board/2011-January/010271.html)
- A proposed requirements is available for review at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Media_Handout_Requirements
- Next steps ...
- HELP - volunteers welcome - need to adjust current draft to match QA workflow
- Post feedback to
fedora-qa ticket#164
IDEA - Anyone interested in data mining smolt?
- Owner
- <open>
- Summary
- In preparation for upcoming Xorg and gnome-shell test days, we could really use help massaging smolt data
- The goal -- figure out a way to get a raw dump of all graphics cards out of smolt, then categorize them into generations, then set up queries that abstract out the generations, so we can just say find all cards in NVIDIA generation foo
- See adamw's blog post at http://www.happyassassin.net/2011/01/17/potential-project-for-someone-graphics-card-generations-in-smolt/
- Next steps ...
- In need of volunteer
Reminder - 2010-01-27 - Network Device Naming test day
- Owner
- jlaska
- Summary
- Coming soon ... https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-01-27_Network_Device_Naming_With_Biosdevname
- Next steps ...
- Rename test cases to comply with SOP
- Adjust test cases to use
Description
A brief description of the functionality being tested.
How to test
- Start here ...
- Next do this ...
- Finally click that
Expected Results
- Step #1 completes without error
- The system boots into runlevel 5
- Program completes with exit code 0
- Add instructions to identify if you have applicable hardware to participate
IDEA - Send reminder to devel-announce listing current QA team services
- Owner
- Viking-Ice
- Summary
- Suggested sending a reminder to devel-announce@lists.fedoraproject.org reminding maintainers of the services offered by the Fedora QA team
- Next steps ...
- Locate previous example
Action items
- jlaska - check-in with lmacken on http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel-announce/2011-January/000742.html
- adamw - follow-up on advisory-board thread on media requirements for spins (http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/advisory-board/2011-January/010271.html).
IRC Transcript
| jlaska | #startmeeting Fedora QA Meeting | 16:00 |
|---|---|---|
| zodbot | Meeting started Mon Jan 17 16:00:06 2011 UTC. The chair is jlaska. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| zodbot | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. | 16:00 |
| jlaska | #meetingname fedora-qa | 16:00 |
| zodbot | The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa' | 16:00 |
| jlaska | #topic Gathering in the lobby | 16:00 |
| * jsmith lurks | 16:00 | |
| * fenrus02 waves | 16:00 | |
| jlaska | show of electronic hands ... | 16:00 |
| jlaska | fenrus02: jsmith: Hi folks | 16:00 |
| jlaska | robatino: welcome! | 16:01 |
| * Viking-Ice here | 16:01 | |
| * mkrizek lurks from behind the books | 16:01 | |
| jsmith | jlaska: This meeting is at the same time as an internal staff meeting, but I'll multi-task :-) | 16:01 |
| jlaska | mkrizek: woah, welcome :) | 16:01 |
| jlaska | Viking-Ice: hiya | 16:01 |
| * kparal welcomes mkrizek | 16:02 | |
| * rbergeron peeks in | 16:02 | |
| jlaska | hi kparal + rbergeron | 16:02 |
| jlaska | mkrizek: we're like a bad cold, you just can't shake us :P | 16:03 |
| mkrizek | jlaska: :D | 16:03 |
| jlaska | alright ... another minute or two for any stragglers, then we'll get started | 16:04 |
| adamw | yo | 16:05 |
| jlaska | hey brunowolff + adamw | 16:05 |
| jlaska | okay, let's get started ... | 16:05 |
| brunowolff | I am here. | 16:05 |
| jlaska | #topic Previous meeting follow-up | 16:05 |
| jlaska | #info Bodhi feedback patch from fcami (see ticket#701 (infrastructure) awaiting review | 16:05 |
| jlaska | There was a bodhi update last week, I don't know if this was included? | 16:06 |
| * jlaska checks changelog | 16:06 | |
| * jlaska looking at http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel-announce/2011-January/000742.html | 16:06 | |
| jlaska | I don't think it was included | 16:06 |
| jlaska | any updates from fcami or lmacken ? | 16:07 |
| fenrus02 | they both seem to be afk at the moment | 16:07 |
| jlaska | yeah, okay ... guess we'll leave this open then | 16:08 |
| jlaska | not sure what else to do with it | 16:08 |
| jlaska | that's all I had from last week, on to the main event | 16:08 |
| jlaska | #topic Update on critpath test definition (ticket#154) | 16:08 |
| adamw | as long as we've all agreed on what should be changed and there's a ticket open against bodhi, i don't see what else we can do | 16:08 |
| jlaska | adamw: agreed, I was worried since we don't have any ACK/NACK on the idea, it's on our plate until it's on the roadmap | 16:09 |
| jlaska | adamw: you've been pretty busy this past week on ticket#154, what's the latest? | 16:09 |
| adamw | i guess maybe someone should poke luke outside of the meeting | 16:09 |
| * jlaska will poke | 16:09 | |
| adamw | I pushed the policies into production and announced on the lists | 16:09 |
| jlaska | #action jlaska - check-in with lmack on http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel-announce/2011-January/000742.html | 16:10 |
| adamw | I also started converting test cases to the new category system, I have about half of our existing test cases done now | 16:10 |
| adamw | if anyone wants to help it'd be welcome =) | 16:10 |
| jlaska | #link http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test-announce/2011-January/000171.html | 16:10 |
| adamw | i also mailed infrastructure list to discuss the possibility of adding a mediawiki extension which would allow multi-category search | 16:10 |
| jlaska | adamw: I'll be trying to adjust some wiki pages for the upcoming test day, I'll shout if I could use some guidance | 16:10 |
| adamw | which we kinda need to make the system really work | 16:10 |
| jlaska | #info started converting test cases to the new category system, I have about half of our existing test cases done now | 16:11 |
| jlaska | #info mailed infrastructure list to discuss the possibility of adding a mediawiki extension which would allow multi-category search | 16:11 |
| adamw | http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/infrastructure/2011-January/009829.html | 16:11 |
| jlaska | looks like Ian points out what we found as well ... with regards to manual category searching using the API | 16:11 |
| adamw | yeah | 16:12 |
| adamw | i actually only just read his reply, i'd forgotten about the infrastructure thread until now... | 16:12 |
| jlaska | oooh, new mediawiki update coming soon ... that'll be a nice improvement | 16:12 |
| adamw | the only problem with what ian suggests is that every client would have to re-do the searching code | 16:12 |
| jlaska | right | 16:12 |
| adamw | unless we implemented some kind of intermediary | 16:12 |
| jlaska | we could add support to that fedora-mw library ian pointed me too | 16:13 |
| adamw | what was that? | 16:13 |
| jlaska | ergh, I worried you'd ask :) one sec ... | 16:13 |
| jlaska | #link http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/packageinfo?packageID=11263 (python-simplemediawiki)_ | 16:14 |
| adamw | ah | 16:14 |
| jlaska | I've done some coding against this library for some metrics gathering scripts, I could work something up to meet your needs? | 16:14 |
| adamw | that would be awesome | 16:14 |
| adamw | the other tricky thing we need to deal with under my current plan is recursion | 16:14 |
| jlaska | okay, I'll find you after for some details | 16:15 |
| adamw | i.e. we need to know 'all pages that are members of categories which are members of this category' | 16:15 |
| adamw | since i came up with that clever-clever system for splitting up groups of test cases for a given package | 16:15 |
| jlaska | #info discussed the possibility of adding multi-category searching to the python-simplemediawiki API | 16:15 |
| adamw | if that's too complicated we can always change the policy to not allow recursion or tweak it some other way | 16:15 |
| jlaska | or cap it at some 3 levels deep or something arbitrary? | 16:15 |
| adamw | so i want to get this sorted before talking to luke and till about adding support to koji and f-e-k | 16:15 |
| adamw | as i don't want to request something they can't really practically do yet | 16:16 |
| jlaska | that makes sense | 16:16 |
| adamw | jlaska: oh yeah, with the current policy there'd only be at most one level to deal with | 16:16 |
| jlaska | #info need to determine if/how to handle Category recursion on the wiki | 16:16 |
| adamw | there hasn't been a lot of response yet in terms of people creating test cases, but i think once we get the mechanism somewhat exposed it should help, and as people get used to using it through test days and so on | 16:16 |
| jlaska | exposure througrh test days will help too | 16:17 |
| * jlaska just referenced your new test case SOP today for the 3rd time | 16:17 | |
| adamw | i was thinking of getting up on my hind legs at fudcon and talking about it too, though i haven't proposed that as a talk yet and it may be too late | 16:17 |
| jlaska | that can't hurt! | 16:17 |
| jlaska | never too late! | 16:17 |
| adamw | so it could be an unconference topic or something | 16:17 |
| jlaska | #idea Discuss new test case SOP and wiki organization at FUDCon Tempe | 16:18 |
| jlaska | adamw: okay, I'll get back to you tomorrow (wed latest) on the simplemediawiki stuff ... I need to get some feedback to kparal for another item first | 16:18 |
| adamw | ok | 16:18 |
| jlaska | alright, great progress on this activity. | 16:18 |
| rbergeron | adamw: it's not too late. | 16:18 |
| jlaska | anything else you wanted to highlight to the minutes? | 16:19 |
| rbergeron | barcamp = everything gets picked saturday morning :) | 16:19 |
| adamw | rbergeron: yeah, i meant for the talks track | 16:19 |
| adamw | rbergeron: it'd probably be best for barcamp anyway, though, because i can't talk about it for long | 16:19 |
| adamw | just a few minutes, then have time for people to actually try it out, would be best | 16:19 |
| adamw | and if no-one shows up we can just turn it into time for me and jlaska to convert some existing test cases | 16:19 |
| rbergeron | adamw: talks are barcamp too. | 16:19 |
| adamw | it's a win-win =) | 16:19 |
| adamw | rbergeron: ahhh, cool | 16:19 |
| adamw | was it always like that? have I been at jsmith's crack pipe again? | 16:20 |
| rbergeron | adamw: no idea. I've not been to a fudcon yet. I plan on coming though this time. :D | 16:20 |
| adamw | i think it probably was and i just forgot | 16:20 |
| adamw | anyway! moving on | 16:21 |
| adamw | nothing else to highlight for the meeting | 16:21 |
| jlaska | okay, thanks for the updates :) | 16:21 |
| adamw | did anyone have any comments on the SOPs or anything? | 16:21 |
| adamw | ah, i bored everyone to death, good! plan to take over the world, step 1 complete | 16:21 |
| jlaska | #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:SOP_test_case_creation | 16:21 |
| jlaska | #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:SOP_package_test_plan_creation | 16:21 |
| jlaska | heh | 16:22 |
| jlaska | alright, next topic ... | 16:22 |
| jlaska | #topic Latest and greatest on autoqa-0.4.4 | 16:22 |
| jlaska | kparal: want to spend a few minutes on recent autoqa updates? | 16:22 |
| kparal | let's dub it as "busy busy week" :-) | 16:22 |
| kparal | sure | 16:22 |
| jlaska | yeah, lots of activity ... that's great to see | 16:22 |
| kparal | as usually I cheated a little and prepared some bullets in advance. here we goL | 16:23 |
| kparal | * We have simplified the test object template a bit by using 'self.__class__' where possible. Now even a three-year old can write an AutoQA test object (as long as he/she know Python basics) :-) | 16:23 |
| kparal | https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/autoqa-devel/2011-January/001494.html | 16:23 |
| jlaska | haha, I like that | 16:24 |
| kparal | * clumens' branch is now merged into master. | 16:24 |
| kparal | This means we have one new hook 'git-post-receive' that triggers everytime a new commit is made into a git repository (anaconda, presently) and three new tests 'anaconda_checkbot', 'anaconda_storage' and 'compose_tree'. The first performs checks on anaconda, the second one perform many installation tests from our installation testing matrix (yay!) and the third one attempts to create Fedora boot.iso images. This is going to be run after | 16:24 |
| kparal | https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/autoqa-devel/2011-January/001473.html | 16:24 |
| jlaska | #info "So easy, a three year old can do it" - simplified the test object template a bit by using 'self.__class__' where possible | 16:24 |
| kparal | * mkrizek implemented logging support and unittest execution support. This stuff is now in separate branches and will be merged once we have a little time to review it. | 16:25 |
| kparal | https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/ticket/196 | 16:25 |
| kparal | https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/ticket/258 | 16:25 |
| * kparal sending kudos to mkrizek to Denmark | 16:26 | |
| jlaska | #info Clumenas branch merged - New git-post-receive hook and several installer tests (see https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/autoqa-devel/2011-January/001473.html) | 16:26 |
| jlaska | #info mkrizek implemented logging support and unittest execution support. This stuff is now in separate branches and will be merged once we have a little time to review it | 16:26 |
| jlaska | kparal: feel free to use #info #help #idea #action etc... | 16:26 |
| jlaska | s/Clumenas/Clumens/ | 16:26 |
| jlaska | (sorry Chris) | 16:27 |
| kparal | #info jskladan adjusted his 'new_koji_watcher' patch and the debate ensued | 16:27 |
| kparal | It certainly caused some flutter :-) After all the concerns are settled, this should provide us with a better implementation of the bodhi event detection (by using koji -pending tags) and also test batching support (provides better performance). | 16:27 |
| kparal | #link https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/autoqa-devel/2011-January/001485.html | 16:27 |
| jlaska | seems like more thorough detection too ... based on your latest mail | 16:27 |
| kparal | it seems that currently both implementation have some gaps :-) | 16:27 |
| kparal | #info wwoods posted 'depcheck' patch | 16:28 |
| kparal | Another big chunk of code dropped on the head of the poor reviewers :-) I still haven't managed to look at it, but I'll do that soon. jlaska 'the superman' already did. depcheck is the most anticipated test of the upcoming autoqa release. | 16:28 |
| kparal | #link https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/autoqa-devel/2011-January/001512.html | 16:28 |
| kparal | ok, who did I forget? raise your hands | 16:29 |
| jlaska | #info hongqing researching anaconda virtio support and integrating that into rats_install/install.py | 16:29 |
| kparal | oh, great | 16:30 |
| jlaska | we've been talking about this a lot privately, but I expect things will move to autoqa-devel@ soon. Basically, this would allow us to mimic more real-world install scenarios by using virtio monitoring, rather than our network-based minimon script | 16:30 |
| kparal | jlaska: does that mean that you could monitor files on disk inside VM, while VM is running? | 16:31 |
| jlaska | kparal: yeah exactly, you could monitor installation progress (by way of installer log files) from the virt host | 16:31 |
| kparal | perfect | 16:31 |
| jlaska | using a dedicated virt serial port between the host and guest | 16:31 |
| jlaska | #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Anaconda/Logging | 16:32 |
| jlaska | based on what hongqing uncovers, we may use this for all subsequent installation tests | 16:32 |
| jlaska | kparal: that's it from me | 16:33 |
| kparal | in summary: big patches last week, big reviews this week :-) | 16:33 |
| adamw | yay patches! | 16:33 |
| jlaska | big fun next week? | 16:33 |
| kparal | (or big crash) ^^ | 16:34 |
| jlaska | heh, fun of a different sort :) | 16:34 |
| jlaska | okay kparal, thanks for the updates. Kudos to jskladan and mkrizek as well | 16:34 |
| jlaska | Hurry asked me to raise the next topic ... | 16:35 |
| jlaska | #topic Update on TCMS nitrate analysis (ticket#152) | 16:35 |
| jlaska | #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Rhe/tcms_use_cases | 16:36 |
| jlaska | #info Rhe regrouped the use cases by general and main test events(runs) use cases. The general cases cover the basic uses of wiki, and the events cases covers the detailed certain steps for organizing the events. | 16:36 |
| jlaska | I'm just now absorbing her latest edits, but this seems to do a good job of capturing our current use cases involving the wiki and test events/cases/plans etc.. | 16:37 |
| jlaska | Hurry asked for comments/concerns/ideas on the wiki discussion page | 16:37 |
| jlaska | #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Rhe/tcms_Comparison | 16:37 |
| jlaska | #info The comparison is grouped according to the use cases. It has overlaps between each other which I need to further update. But the basic idea is shown, please review them and welcome to provide any comments about the grouping idea/design format/contents. | 16:37 |
| adamw | cool, thanks hurry! | 16:38 |
| adamw | i'll take a look at the new layout soon... | 16:39 |
| jlaska | this looks like when organized by the use cases. Same thing, any thoughts/comments ... please drop Hurry a line on the Discussion tab | 16:39 |
| jlaska | #help Feedback requested ... last chance to review use cases and comparison | 16:39 |
| jlaska | the eventual goal here is to identify what features are MUSTHAVE and SHOULDHAVE when it comes to our test case management needs | 16:40 |
| jlaska | okay, unless any questions, moving on ... | 16:41 |
| jlaska | #topic Open discussion - <Your topic here> | 16:41 |
| Viking-Ice | I got one | 16:41 |
| jlaska | I have 2 quick topics for open discussion as well | 16:41 |
| adamw | looks really good to me | 16:41 |
| jlaska | Viking-Ice, why don't you go first | 16:41 |
| Viking-Ice | Ok | 16:41 |
| Viking-Ice | #link http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/advisory-board/2011-January/010271.html | 16:42 |
| Viking-Ice | Rex mentions here "There was a decision, a list of criteria to be met before being blessed:" | 16:43 |
| jlaska | #topic Open discussion - Media_Handout_Requirements | 16:43 |
| Viking-Ice | #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Media_Handout_Requirements | 16:43 |
| jlaska | #link http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/advisory-board/2011-January/010271.html | 16:43 |
| Viking-Ice | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Media_Handout_Requirements#Quality_Assurance <--- (since you are linking also it skip it ) | 16:43 |
| Viking-Ice | Who and When was this decided this within the QA community? | 16:44 |
| jlaska | got me ... adamw is this on your radar? | 16:44 |
| adamw | sorry, was just looking at something else | 16:44 |
| adamw | yeah, this is on my agenda | 16:44 |
| jlaska | okay | 16:44 |
| adamw | Viking-Ice: afaict it wasn't; board never approached us | 16:44 |
| adamw | they just came up with the requirements off their own bat | 16:44 |
| Viking-Ice | So some kind of communication break down | 16:45 |
| adamw | i think board just wanted to Get It Done | 16:45 |
| jlaska | A quick inspection shows the release criteria cover most of these points | 16:45 |
| adamw | but yeah, not great process | 16:45 |
| adamw | mostly what they've written is actually fine, we can just tweak it a bit | 16:45 |
| Viking-Ice | anything else that the board has decided but not shared with us that ye might be aware of? | 16:46 |
| jlaska | there are some requirements on rel-eng as well regarding SOP's | 16:46 |
| adamw | the things that worry me are the use of the phrase 'test plan', which can be a bit more loaded than probably the board expects, and the reference to one person carrying out the test plan, with 'oversight' from QA, which doesn't really match the scheme we've developed for qa'ing spins | 16:46 |
| adamw | Viking-Ice: not that i'm aware of.. | 16:46 |
| adamw | Viking-Ice: i only caught this by following the flamewar soap opera that is board-advisory-list, though | 16:46 |
| Viking-Ice | this certainly does not reflect our current workflow | 16:46 |
| adamw | yeah, i think we can tweak it to reflect the current workflow reasonably easily though, and the board would probably be okay with it | 16:47 |
| jlaska | anyone want to volunteer? | 16:47 |
| adamw | my plan was to come up with a proposed modification of the board's text and post that to -test for people to look at, then forward it to the board | 16:47 |
| Viking-Ice | To be honest the board should ask us to provide them with whatever they were after | 16:47 |
| adamw | Viking-Ice: yeah, but that's water under the bridge now, i'd rather just look at what we should do from here | 16:47 |
| jlaska | adamw: cool, please include Hurry in case any adjustments are needed on the install event side | 16:48 |
| adamw | if anyone else wants to draft the modifications that'd be great, go ahead and volunteer =) | 16:48 |
| jlaska | #help volunteers welcome - need to adjust current draft to match QA workflow | 16:48 |
| adamw | also worth noting there's a general plan to discuss the 'future of spins' at tempe | 16:49 |
| Viking-Ice | we have to make sure this kind of communication breakdowns wont happen | 16:49 |
| adamw | which we should get in on, i will be sure to get included in that | 16:49 |
| adamw | the other thing that worries me about this is it's expected to apply to all spins, so the board is kind of expecting us to have test plans for everything, down to stuff like broffice and the electronics suite that currently we just don't bother with | 16:49 |
| jlaska | eeeergh :( | 16:49 |
| adamw | not really an onus on *us* as the idea is the spin sig develops the test plan, but it's just a point to note | 16:49 |
| jlaska | right, right | 16:50 |
| Viking-Ice | agreed | 16:50 |
| adamw | Viking-Ice: i did try and let the board know that we'd really prefer they come to us about this kind of thing in future | 16:50 |
| jlaska | alright, anything else here to track? | 16:50 |
| adamw | Viking-Ice: if you have any other ideas to get the point across to the board...:) | 16:50 |
| adamw | thanks for raising the issue btw | 16:51 |
| jlaska | agreed, certainly a benefit of transparency | 16:51 |
| jlaska | okay ... two quick ones from me ... | 16:51 |
| brunowolff | broffice is being dropped as the trademark issue is moot now. | 16:51 |
| adamw | brunowolff: oh right, that's one less to worry about. | 16:51 |
| jlaska | yay, -1 | 16:51 |
| jlaska | #topic Volunteer interested in data mining smolt? | 16:52 |
| jlaska | #help Anyone interested in understanding and gathering smolt statistics for use with the upcoming graphics test days? | 16:52 |
| adamw | ooh, nice one | 16:52 |
| jlaska | This was something rbergeron raised while we were discussion the upcoming gnome-shell changes | 16:52 |
| adamw | bskeggs and i have discussed it too | 16:52 |
| Viking-Ice | you kinda need direct DB access to do that efficiently | 16:52 |
| jlaska | there is a gold mine of data in smolt, but we just need someone with a few spare cycles to dig through and present some queries | 16:53 |
| adamw | yeah, dealing with graphics adapters is tricky as there's so many of the damn things | 16:53 |
| jlaska | Viking-Ice: maybe, maybe not | 16:53 |
| adamw | jlaska: it is quite tricky from the web front end as what we need to do here is reduce several thousand separate adapters into a few broad categories | 16:53 |
| jlaska | I'm sure ro db access could be granted if our needs were clearly articulated | 16:53 |
| adamw | so say for nvidia | 16:53 |
| jlaska | adamw: definitely! | 16:53 |
| Viking-Ice | first question what exactly is the information trying to be gather for | 16:53 |
| adamw | what ben's interested in is 'how many people are using each generation of nvidia card' | 16:53 |
| jlaska | Viking-Ice: great question :) | 16:53 |
| adamw | so then we can use the test days to evaluate how well gnome-shell works on each generation | 16:54 |
| Viking-Ice | and once you have that data what are you planning to do with it | 16:54 |
| jlaska | yeah, I'd love to see a high-level list of all the variations of cards in those big 3 (nvidia, intel, ati) | 16:54 |
| adamw | and then that in turn will let us say 'okay, looks like we'll be able to get gnome shell working for 70% of nvidia users' or whatever it turns out to be | 16:54 |
| adamw | ben can say quite confidently 'okay, it's basically working on generations X, Y and Z' | 16:55 |
| jlaska | Viking-Ice: as adamw said, it's to assist qa and devel with release decisions and bug decisions | 16:55 |
| adamw | but we need smolt to let us know how many of the cards in use are in those generations | 16:55 |
| jlaska | yup | 16:55 |
| jlaska | so ... skills required here? | 16:55 |
| adamw | as i said, the icky bit is that there are dozens of separate PCI IDs for each generation, probably hundreds for some | 16:55 |
| adamw | it's mostly data manip | 16:55 |
| Viking-Ice | so let's say we fetch all graphics cards info then what I mean do the graphics driver developers have those cards handy ? | 16:55 |
| Viking-Ice | if they dont we cant reliably say this works on x y z | 16:56 |
| adamw | figure out a way to get a raw dump of all graphics cards out of smolt, then categorize them into generations, then set up queries that abstract out the generations, so we can just say 'find all cards in NVIDIA generation foo' | 16:56 |
| * jlaska info's | 16:56 | |
| jlaska | #info figure out a way to get a raw dump of all graphics cards out of smolt, then categorize them into generations, then set up queries that abstract out the generations, so we can just say 'find all cards in NVIDIA generation foo' | 16:56 |
| adamw | Viking-Ice: at the driver level that's more or less how it works | 16:56 |
| adamw | Viking-Ice: there may be isolated bugs with particular cards but that's more commonly a 'it doesn't work at all' thing than an OpenGL-level issue | 16:56 |
| jlaska | okay, that's all I had on this topic ... just humble plea for volunteer(s) on something that's pretty important for this next release | 16:56 |
| adamw | Viking-Ice: as far as mesa goes, any nvidia 8xxx card works pretty much the same as any other nvidia 8xxx card | 16:57 |
| Viking-Ice | I see | 16:57 |
| jlaska | next quick topic is more of a reminder ... | 16:57 |
| adamw | so if we test and find that gnome shell is working well on five or six 8xxx cards, we can be pretty sure it's working fine across that generation | 16:57 |
| * jlaska waits | 16:57 | |
| Viking-Ice | and the same thing applies for intel and radeon | 16:58 |
| adamw | some other 8xxx cards may hit some bug at the kernel / DDX level which means EDID retrieval is broken or they don't activate the right video output or whatever, so X doesn't work...but there's always been those isolated bugs. | 16:58 |
| jlaska | adamw: thanks, you articulated my concerns better than I could have :) | 16:58 |
| adamw | Viking-Ice: yup | 16:58 |
| Viking-Ice | ye might wanna post a bit more detail on how you want this data to be delivered | 16:59 |
| jlaska | alright, in the interest of time ... I'm moving on. But we can continue this on the list or in #fedora-qa | 16:59 |
| adamw | Viking-Ice: yeah, might be a good topic for a blog post | 16:59 |
| jlaska | good idea | 16:59 |
| jlaska | #topic Reminder - 2010-01-27 - Network Device Naming test day | 16:59 |
| jlaska | #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-01-27_Network_Device_Naming_With_Biosdevname | 16:59 |
| jlaska | just a reminder our first F15 test day is coming up next week | 16:59 |
| Viking-Ice | and this applies to what Dell and HP hw ? | 17:00 |
| Viking-Ice | more or less | 17:00 |
| adamw | i think specific dell/hp hw | 17:00 |
| adamw | i think the kinda corporate lines more than the home stuff...but imbw | 17:00 |
| jlaska | I've been coordinating with Narendra on the wiki, and I've got several updates to the wiki I'd like to do | 17:00 |
| Viking-Ice | yeah pizza boxes blades and bricks | 17:00 |
| * adamw was about to suggest to the test organizer that they include a bit more 'user friendly' stuff on how to know if you have relevant hw :) | 17:00 | |
| jlaska | namely related to adamw's new wiki format | 17:00 |
| jlaska | adamw: can you add that to discussion tab? | 17:01 |
| adamw | jlaska: i'm going to put it in the trac ticke | 17:01 |
| adamw | t | 17:01 |
| jlaska | even better, thanks! | 17:01 |
| Viking-Ice | yeah and dont forget to mention that when advertising the test day so we dont end up wasting reporters time | 17:01 |
| adamw | i was just going through the test day page when the graphics card thing came up =) | 17:01 |
| adamw | Viking-Ice: yup | 17:01 |
| jlaska | certainly! | 17:01 |
| jlaska | okay, that's it from me | 17:01 |
| jlaska | #topic Open discussion - <your idea here> | 17:02 |
| jlaska | anything else not already discussed? | 17:02 |
| Viking-Ice | I got one more | 17:02 |
| jlaska | Viking-Ice: can you keep it short? | 17:02 |
| brunowolff | I haven't put much time into the bugzilla enhancement lately, but I am still planning on getting it to work. | 17:02 |
| jlaska | if so ... bring it, otherwise we can follow-up on list | 17:02 |
| Viking-Ice | We might wanna advertise our services to maintainers as we did for a short while ( more of a reminder ) | 17:02 |
| jlaska | Viking-Ice: what do you have in mind? | 17:03 |
| Viking-Ice | just announcement mail to devel etc | 17:03 |
| jlaska | brunowolff: no worries. I admit I'm not fully up to speed on the changes, and how we'd get them enabled in our bugzilla.redhat.com instance :( | 17:03 |
| Viking-Ice | Just what we did before | 17:03 |
| brunowolff | Yeah, it's more of a long term project, which is why I bumped it for some short term Fedora projects I have been working on recently. | 17:04 |
| jlaska | Viking-Ice: sorry, I'm drawing a blank here ... got an example link? | 17:04 |
| Viking-Ice | not handy I need to dig through the archives | 17:05 |
| Viking-Ice | to find it | 17:05 |
| jlaska | okay | 17:05 |
| Viking-Ice | somewhere around the time we setup the QA trac instances | 17:05 |
| jlaska | #topic Open discussion - Post QA team services to devel-announce@ | 17:05 |
| jlaska | #info Viking-Ice suggested someone post to devel-announce@ to remind about services offered by QA team | 17:06 |
| jlaska | Viking-Ice looking through archives to find sample post | 17:06 |
| Viking-Ice | will follow up on -test list | 17:06 |
| jlaska | okay | 17:06 |
| jlaska | alright folks ... let's close the meeting in 2 minutes | 17:06 |
| jlaska | closing meeting in < 1 minute | 17:08 |
| jlaska | T-15 seconds ... | 17:08 |
| jlaska | Thanks everyone for your time, I'll send minutes to the list shortly | 17:08 |
| jlaska | #endmeeting | 17:08 |
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