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Fedora Release Engineering Meeting :: Monday 2008-05-12

Preparing Fedora 9

Post Fedora 9

During our short "down" time before F10 alpha f13 would like to get some things going

  1. Better use of our Trac space
    • closing out tickets on time
    • tracking milestones and tasks
  2. Start scoping tasks for summer intern
    • Casey Dahlin (he's worked with notting in the past on things like upstart)
    • work on things like new maintainer containment, tooling around non-responsive maintainers, Trac gateway, and other potential things like Kopers (Koji Personal Repos)
  3. Tools
    • sigul--signing server needs work and connection with koji
    • pungi is going to inherit splittree and pkgorder from anaconda-runtime; need to integrate the functionality of those into pungi code
    • more tooling around releng tasks and tree validation
  4. Upgrade releng1 to RHEL5 from FC6
  5. What to cover at FUDCon Boston
    1. Start conversation about next generation SCM (Source Control Management)
      • primary focus on requirements gathering and work flow possibilities
    2. SELinux vs. chroots discussion--see fedora-selinux-list
    3. f13 is planning to run for Fedora Board and if he secures a position he would no longer represent Release Engineering on FESCo--would need a replacement

IRC Transcript

-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering Meeting - Roll Call<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
* notting is here<a href="#t13:08" class="time">13:08</a>
f13ping: notting jeremy spot lmacken jwb rdieter poelcat wwoods warren<a href="#t13:08" class="time">13:08</a>
* spot is present, albeit, sleepy<a href="#t13:08" class="time">13:08</a>
* poelcat here<a href="#t13:08" class="time">13:08</a>
* wwoods hereish<a href="#t13:08" class="time">13:08</a>
rdieteryo<a href="#t13:08" class="time">13:08</a>
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora releng - F9 release<a href="#t13:09" class="time">13:09</a>
f13So... 9 is staged for release<a href="#t13:10" class="time">13:10</a>
f13We had one minor emergency this morning, the x86_64 DVD jigdo was busted due to our last minute respins on Friday, but I was able to hunt down the problem and generate a new set of jigdo files, which I now realize are further broken because I didn't apply our necessary hand edits after the recreation.<a href="#t13:10" class="time">13:10</a>
f13brb<a href="#t13:10" class="time">13:10</a>
* poelcat wondered if that was the case... trying to create on Friday kept failing w/ one file missing; even pointing at internal GOLD tree<a href="#t13:11" class="time">13:11</a>
f13ok, fixed that.  *grumble*<a href="#t13:13" class="time">13:13</a>
spotf13: it seems like this is something that we should be automating in the future<a href="#t13:13" class="time">13:13</a>
f13spot: yes, pyjigdo will do this for us in the future<a href="#t13:13" class="time">13:13</a>
spotor at least, have some "pre-push" check for.<a href="#t13:13" class="time">13:13</a>
f13it's just not ready yet<a href="#t13:13" class="time">13:13</a>
f13I should have pushed back on jigdo as a feature until it didn't require hand editing files<a href="#t13:13" class="time">13:13</a>
f13spot: we need a whole slew of pre-push automated tests.  alas...<a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a>
nottingf13: f10 feature?<a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a>
spotf13: might not be a bad thing to target for F10<a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a>
poelcatintern?<a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a>
f13we also need infrastructure resources to run them.<a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a>
f13poelcat: maybe, depends on how far we get with other stuff.<a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a>
f13anyway... /now/ the bits are in place, waiting for the bit flip<a href="#t13:15" class="time">13:15</a>
f13I'm going to be workign from my house tomorrow since the bus will be at an inopportune time to make the release happen.<a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a>
f13the plan is to unlock the dirs on the master mirror 40 minutes prior to GO time, and turn on torrents 20 minutes prior to GO time.  Once we're sure that mirrors are opening and torrent is going, we'll send the release announcement at or after GO time<a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a>
f13That's <a href="https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/ticket/20">https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/ticket/20</a><a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a>
f13I'm working on getting the first batch of F9 updates pushed out, still in signing mode.<a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a>
f13once those go out we can change mirrormanager redirection so that people cna get updates, and we can let rawhide unfreeze (IE ticket <a href="https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/ticket/21">https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/ticket/21</a>)<a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a>
wwoodswoo. is that happening today then?<a href="#t13:20" class="time">13:20</a>
f13As for ticket <a href="https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/526">https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/526</a> (Torrent prep), I have all the isos uploaded, now it's just a matter of creating .ini files for the torrent creator.<a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a>
f13wwoods: theoretically<a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a>
wwoodscool<a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a>
f13wwoods: we're doing a just f9 push so that it'll hopefully go "faster"<a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a>
wwoodsyeah I'm more keen on getting real updates in the f9 updates target<a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a>
wwoodsthan I am worried about getting rawhide unlocked<a href="#t13:22" class="time">13:22</a>
f13I'm still pretty worried about all aspects, but that's just me (:<a href="#t13:22" class="time">13:22</a>
wwoodswell, naturally<a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a>
wwoodsyou actually have to turn the crank to make stuff go in both places<a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a>
f13I think all things are in good shape though, and we've got a lot of minds on all the aspects of making the release happen<a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a>
f13each release we get better at this<a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a>
f13We'll use #fedora-admin as the ground control for the launch<a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a>
f13hopefully houston won't have any problems<a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a>
wwoodsright on<a href="#t13:26" class="time">13:26</a>
wwoodsI'm still collecting stuff for the CommonBugs page<a href="#t13:26" class="time">13:26</a>
nottingdo we have instructions for mirrors on torrent layout if they want to join at the start?<a href="#t13:26" class="time">13:26</a>
wwoodsplease *email me* (so I have some stored record of it) if you've got a suggestion<a href="#t13:26" class="time">13:26</a>
f13notting: I haven't seen any go by, no.<a href="#t13:26" class="time">13:26</a>
f13so anything else, any other concerns or thoughts regarding F9 release?<a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a>
mdomschnotting, I haven't written anything<a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a>
nottingf13: hm, the only thing i can think aren't rel-eng things (release notes, get-fedora, etc. in place)<a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a>
f13nod<a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a>
sticksterrelease notes are being published this afternoon by Bart Couvreur (couf)<a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a>
sticksterTagged LIVE tomorrow morning ahead of release<a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a>
f13cool<a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a>
nottingf13: the DVD torrents include a sha1sum file, the CD torrents do not. dunno if you care<a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a>
f13notting: I haven't generated the torrents yet.<a href="#t13:32" class="time">13:32</a>
coufyep, I've got that covered<a href="#t13:32" class="time">13:32</a>
f13notting: since it's the same file (SHA1) I just haven't copied it over to their respective directories yet<a href="#t13:32" class="time">13:32</a>
nottingf13: ah, the directories are still in staging<a href="#t13:32" class="time">13:32</a>
f13yes<a href="#t13:32" class="time">13:32</a>
f13alright, lets move on.<a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a>
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora releng - post-f9<a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a>
nottingf13: but, the layout is generally <torrent name>/<isos>, with a SHA1SUM file?<a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a>
f13notting: yes, the sha1 goes with the isos<a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a>
f13During our short "down" time before F10 alpha I'd like to get some things going.<a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a>
f131) better use of our Trac space.  I completely forgot about it and had tickets all the way back to F9 alpha to close out<a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a>
f13We need to be better about using Trac, setting up milestones to group tickets and using them.  I'mg oing to follow the infrastructure's lead and use tickets as subjects for meetings too<a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a>
f13to make this more tot he point I'm hoping to get the email alias of rel-eng@ turned into a Trac ticket filing gateway<a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a>
f13so that tag requests and whatnot get a ticket and are better tracked (no pun)<a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a>
f132) I'm getting an intern this summer, Casey Dahlin (he's worked with notting in the past on things like upstart).<a href="#t13:36" class="time">13:36</a>
f13What I have planned for him involves things like new maintainer containment, perhaps some better tooling around non-responsive maintainers, maybe getting that Trac gateway thing implemented, and other potential things like Kopers (Koji Personal Repos)<a href="#t13:37" class="time">13:37</a>
f13We could even start a milestone that is just for casey and start throwing some ideas in tickets for him<a href="#t13:37" class="time">13:37</a>
nottingheh, ideas<a href="#t13:37" class="time">13:37</a>
nottinga rel-eng special tagbot might be nice<a href="#t13:37" class="time">13:37</a>
nottingalso, sigul<a href="#t13:37" class="time">13:37</a>
f13yes, sigul.<a href="#t13:37" class="time">13:37</a>
f13notting: getting to that (:<a href="#t13:37" class="time">13:37</a>
f133) Tool improvements<a href="#t13:38" class="time">13:38</a>
nottingf13: i have a 4) when you're ready<a href="#t13:38" class="time">13:38</a>
f13sigul despretaly needs some work.  Mostly from my side of things (developing a client to frob koji to figure out what paths to throw at sigul to be signed)<a href="#t13:38" class="time">13:38</a>
f13pungi is going to inherit splittree and pkgorder from anaconda-runtime and so I'll need to spend some time integrating the functionality of those into pungi code as the anaconda team is writing those tools off<a href="#t13:39" class="time">13:39</a>
f13I also have some feature improvements planned for pungi that I hopefully can crank out in the first couple weeks.<a href="#t13:39" class="time">13:39</a>
f13we could also use some tooling around releng tasks, such as tagging as notting eluded to, and things like automated tree validation.<a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a>
f13We have a migration queued up to go from FC6 based releng1 to RHEL5 based releng2.  Lots of code changes have been queued up for this, we just need to execute and clean up.<a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a>
nottinglmacken: how much is the bodhi comment/karma code compartmentalized?<a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a>
f13and we have to find a public home for mightor, the quad G5 (which is currently broken) that IBM gave Fedora for ppc development.  We would really like to make this a public system for people to get ppc(64) mock time on.<a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a>
f13I really need to milestone and ticketify these things, which I'll work on over the next few days as I try to avoid any other work (:<a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a>
f13notting: you're go for 4)<a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a>
lmackennotting: I'm not quite sure what you mean.<a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a>
nottinglmacken: i'll poke you on #fedora-devel in a bit<a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a>
notting4) releng1 -> RHEL 5. what's the status/timeline here?<a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a>
notting(alternatively, migration of releng1 -> releng2<a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a>
f13notting: I hope to see that done next week.<a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a>
warrenwhat is it running now?<a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a>
nottingfc6<a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a>
f13warren: FC6instine.<a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a>
f13notting: did you have more on that?<a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a>
nottingf13: just that in doing so, we'll want to do the migration to mock for rawhide and clean up some of that stuff<a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a>
f13notting: right, that's all wrapped up in the move.<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
f13notting: we'll get releng2 turned back on this week so we can continue testing some things before we make the cut over.<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
f13alright.<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
f135) FUDCon BOS.  What all should releng do here?<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
f13I've already signed up for one session, Package VCS 2.0<a href="#t13:46" class="time">13:46</a>
f13a rational discussion with actual maintianers about what kind of things we want our VCS to be able to do and accomplish, without any flamewars about my SCM being better than your SCM<a href="#t13:46" class="time">13:46</a>
f13a requirements gathering session if you will, that we can document and look to as we investigate new SCMs and workflow possibilies.<a href="#t13:46" class="time">13:46</a>
f13possiblities.<a href="#t13:47" class="time">13:47</a>
f13man I wish I could spell.<a href="#t13:47" class="time">13:47</a>
f13possibilities.<a href="#t13:47" class="time">13:47</a>
f13I'm going to try to write down some of the requirements I have in mind before the session to give us a starting point.  Once I have a wiki page up for that I would encourage all of you to add to it as you see fit<a href="#t13:48" class="time">13:48</a>
f13but if ya'll have other ideas for things we can accomplish at FUDCon, I'm all ears/eyes.<a href="#t13:48" class="time">13:48</a>
f13another thing on the horizon is SELinux vs chroots discussions<a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a>
f13I've successfully poked the bear by making some incorrect claims about SELinux and chroots and the positions of various people on the RH side of the fence vs the FEdora side and the NSA side.<a href="#t13:50" class="time">13:50</a>
f13the end result is that discussions are happening again about the current difficulties of using things like livecd-creator on selinux enabled hosts and chroots<a href="#t13:50" class="time">13:50</a>
rdietermaybe if you want more rel-eng help/contibutors, maybe have a short "hi, we're rel-eng, this is who we are and what we do, wanna join the bandwaggon?".<a href="#t13:50" class="time">13:50</a>
f13with ideas being tossed about for resolutions to this.  These discussions could have pretty big impact into how we put distros together or even build packages, so we'll want to keep an eye on the development going on there.<a href="#t13:50" class="time">13:50</a>
f13rdieter: that would be great!  I'd love to send something like that to blarney<a href="#t13:51" class="time">13:51</a>
f13fedora-selinux-list is where the selinux vs chroots stuff is currently being discussed.  I have to go read the archives myself to catch up.  But if any of you are interested, please keep tabs as well.<a href="#t13:51" class="time">13:51</a>
f13and one last thing from me on post-f9 stuff...<a href="#t13:52" class="time">13:52</a>
skvidalf13: all the livecds up?<a href="#t13:52" class="time">13:52</a>
f13I'm planning on running for the Fedora Board, and if I'm successful, I also plan to drop off of FESCo.  That would mean I'd like to see somebody officially represent releng to FESCo.<a href="#t13:52" class="time">13:52</a>
f13skvidal: the content is there, I have to shuffle it around a bit and create the torrent metadata plus ini file.  THat's first on my todo list after this meeting.<a href="#t13:53" class="time">13:53</a>
skvidalf13: I can do the torrent stuff<a href="#t13:53" class="time">13:53</a>
warrenwhere's the fesco nomination page?<a href="#t13:53" class="time">13:53</a>
skvidalsorry, wrong channel<a href="#t13:53" class="time">13:53</a>
f13skvidal: ok, great!  Lets talk after the meeting (:<a href="#t13:53" class="time">13:53</a>
lmackenwarren: <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/SteeringCommittee/Nominations">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/SteeringCommittee/Nominations</a><a href="#t13:54" class="time">13:54</a>
nottingf13: doesn't fesco elect first?<a href="#t13:54" class="time">13:54</a>
warrenFoo Bar and Bar Foo are going to edge out some old timers.<a href="#t13:54" class="time">13:54</a>
f13notting: no, I think board does.<a href="#t13:54" class="time">13:54</a>
f13although I could be wrong...<a href="#t13:55" class="time">13:55</a>
nottingf13: board is june 13-22. fesco is 'third Tuesday after a Fedora release', which implies 3-10, or so<a href="#t13:55" class="time">13:55</a>
lmackenhmm, i should probably run for FESCo<a href="#t13:56" class="time">13:56</a>
warrenlmacken: totally<a href="#t13:56" class="time">13:56</a>
f13notting: ugh.  thought collision.<a href="#t13:56" class="time">13:56</a>
f13I don't necessarily want to drop out of FESCo without having secured a board seat first.  Oh well, I'll figure something out.  But I"ll be more than happy to see somebody else run for FESCO<a href="#t13:56" class="time">13:56</a>
warrenI've been thinking about dropping out of FESCO as well, especially now that we're severely cutting the seats.<a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a>
warren(I was against cutting the seats this far.)<a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a>
warrenwe have trouble getting enough people to show up to talk about stuff as it is<a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a>
rdieterwarren: fesco seats cut how much?<a href="#t13:58" class="time">13:58</a>
warrenisn't it going from 13 to 9?<a href="#t13:58" class="time">13:58</a>
warrenIf we want to both let new people into FESCO but also maintain it as a relevant body, we need room for both old and new members.  Cutting it this much wont enable that.  Thus I rather step aside and help from the outside.<a href="#t13:59" class="time">13:59</a>
f13alright, we're coming up on the hour mark.<a href="#t14:00" class="time">14:00</a>
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Releng - Open Floor<a href="#t14:00" class="time">14:00</a>
f13the floor is open...<a href="#t14:00" class="time">14:00</a>
* warren falls through.<a href="#t14:01" class="time">14:01</a>
f13heh, ok.  Thanks all for the meeting.  poelcat and thank you again, in advance, for the meeting notes!<a href="#t14:02" class="time">14:02</a>
f13poelcat: this week is a big one to digest, let me know if you need any help boiling it down.<a href="#t14:03" class="time">14:03</a>
poelcatf13: you're welcome; anything you want me to call out in particular or just take my normal stab at things? :)<a href="#t14:05" class="time">14:05</a>
f13poelcat: your normal stab has been pretty accurate to date, so have at it!<a href="#t14:05" class="time">14:05</a>
poelcat:)<a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a>
poelcatcool<a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a>
poelcatf13: or if there are areas needing stirring up, i could drop some dis-information in ;-)<a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a>
poelcatjk<a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a>
jwbok<a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a>
jwbah, crap<a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a>
jwbi totally missed the whole meeting, didn't i?<a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a>
jwbpoelcat, feel free to note that i suck in the minutes<a href="#t14:07" class="time">14:07</a>
poelcatjwb: the meeting is still open... so that will be memorialized in the irc transcript section :)<a href="#t14:08" class="time">14:08</a>
f13jwb: there is plenty of scrollback for you to read<a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a>
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel</a> for meeting schedule<a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a>

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