BugZappers/Meetings/Minutes-2008-Oct-14

Bug Triage Meeting :: 2008-10-14

Attendees

• jlaska
• ke4qqq
• poelcat
• jds2001

Last Week Followups

• jds2001 reports that FTBS is resolved
• poelcat reports that FEver is still in process
• poelcat to update BugZapper's wiki with bullets on why bug triage is important to Fedora
  • we have great information about the how of bug triage, but not the why or so what
• no update from comphappy on greasemonkey scripts

Triaging Package Reviews

• open to considering in the future--right now can't keep up with existing work load

Next Meeting

• Tuesday @ 14:00 UTC
• #fedora-meeting on irc.freenode.net

IRC Transcript

poelcat	who is here?	07:01
jlaska	Hello!	07:03
poelcat	jlaska: hi	07:04
poelcat	ping ke4qqq: John5342 jds2001	07:04
* ke4qqq is here		07:05
jlaska	poelcat: hey there	07:05
poelcat	hi ke4qqq	07:05
-!- Irssi: #fedora-meeting: Total of 104 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 103 normal]		07:05
ke4qqq	hi poelcat	07:06
poelcat	should we wait a minute or two for others?	07:06
poelcat	ke4qqq: hi	07:06
poelcat	ke4qqq: meet any potential triagers at the Ohio fest?	07:06
ke4qqq	we talked to a few people that we might get involved in triaging, it's in my stack of follow up notes	07:07
ke4qqq	I just haven't yet gotten through them yet.  :(	07:08
poelcat	let's start with that	07:08
* jlaska loads up BugZappers/Meetings/Minutes-2008-Oct-07		07:08
poelcat	ke4qqq last week I think you suggested explaining to people the benefits of doing bug triage	07:08
ke4qqq	yes - there is great information about the HOW, but not the WHY or SO WHAT	07:09
poelcat	ke4qqq: do you think a simple FAQish page like that would help?	07:10
ke4qqq	I think so - or even a small concise blurb in the join section	07:10
poelcat	ke4qqq: which page?	07:11
* poelcat will take action to try to make this better		07:11
poelcat	are there any specific things you think I should call out?	07:11
ke4qqq	if it were me it would be on /BugZappers or BugZappers/HelpWanted	07:11
* jds2001 here. apologies		07:12
poelcat	ke4qqq: okay	07:13
poelcat	hi jds2001	07:13
poelcat	jds2001: BugZappers/Meetings/Minutes-2008-Oct-07#FTBFS_.28Fails_To_Build_From_Source.29	07:13
ke4qqq	I'd think I'd call out the huge expanse of the problem (# of tickets per week created or sometihng) and the benefits of triaging that to something more manageable.	07:13
poelcat	followup?	07:13
poelcat	ke4qqq: noted	07:14
jds2001	poelcat: mdomsch has modiifed his script	07:15
jds2001	to put bugs in assigned.	07:15
poelcat	ke4qqq: i'm trying to get some graphs made related to Package Review bugs... not sure if you saw fedora-devel thread	07:16
poelcat	and will consider that too	07:16
poelcat	jds2001: TA-DONE!	07:16
poelcat	jds2001: thanks	07:16
poelcat	i followed up on BugZappers/Meetings/Minutes-2008-Oct-07#FEver_Bugs	07:17
poelcat	the person (name escapes me) wrote back for clarification	07:17
poelcat	i need to follow up again to find out if things have gone live, etc.	07:17
ke4qqq	poelcat: I have not seen that thread, but honestly email is suffering for about the past week - I am way behind on a big chunk of list traffic.	07:17
poelcat	ke4qqq: discussion started about doing 1 package reivew per fesco member per week to reduce the "backlog" of package reviews	07:18
poelcat	i pointed out that there are 1,212 :-/	07:18
poelcat	this was a surprise to some people	07:18
poelcat	i also suggested that we might be able to help	07:18
ke4qqq	yeah, jds2001 was talking about that at OLF.	07:19
poelcat	ideally though if we could collaborate together	07:19
jds2001	ke4qqq: any progress on yours?	07:19
poelcat	IOW package reviewers help us triage	07:19
poelcat	and we help triage Package Review bugs	07:19
jds2001	ke4qqq: afraid I might get smaked with a wet noodle tomorrow :)	07:19
ke4qqq	jds2001: no, not yet - haven't even touched it since .....	07:19
ke4qqq	so essentially triage the package reviews - say by doing rpmlint type things?	07:20
ke4qqq	and if it returns 0 errors it is in queue that sponsors look at?	07:21
poelcat	ke4qqq: i'm not sure.. jason T had created a draft page suggesting how we could help	07:21
poelcat	though frankly i'm reluctant to start a new "front in the war against bugs"	07:21
* ke4qqq goes to look for the thread		07:21
jds2001	bpepple and I were discussing the the car Sunday night that there's a TON of the review process that's very tedious and could be automated.	07:21
poelcat	when we are not gainging on the ~780 NEW !Package Review Rawhide bugs	07:22
jds2001	I think that the tedious part is why there aren't many reviews.	07:22
jds2001	tibbs|h: you around by chance?	07:22
* poelcat has a link that page somewhere, will try to dig it out		07:24
poelcat	but still relluctant to start a new effort?	07:24
poelcat	am I the only one that thinks that might be the wrong idea right now?	07:24
jds2001	at the moment, I don't think so :)	07:25
jds2001	i.e. I'm not sure we should start a new effort, we have a difficult time as is with the existing effort :)	07:26
poelcat	anyone seen or heard from comphappy about GM script?	07:26
ke4qqq	personally while the reviews are suffering I don't know that it's truly a bugzapper issue.... and it creates something that a new user prolly doesn't have the expertise to do	07:26
poelcat	ke4qqq: the only "issue" we could help with would be to sort out the dead bugs	07:27
poelcat	or I should say	07:27
poelcat	the first place we could start helping	07:27
poelcat	IOW wouldn't be nicer to know there are only 999 package reviews instead of 1200 :)	07:27
jds2001	and for that, we need to exclude Merge Reviews.	07:27
poelcat	or close them if they are never going to happen!	07:28
* poelcat takes things slightly off topic		07:28
* jds2001 thinks they all need to happen...some day.		07:28
poelcat	jds2001: do you think they should even be "Bugs" ?	07:28
jds2001	what other tool do we have for tracking them?	07:29
poelcat	well we could put them in a separate product	07:29
poelcat	so they aren't part of the "bug count"	07:29
poelcat	but maybe there is no value there	07:29
poelcat	people don't seem to be alarmed by +10,000 unresolved bugs :)	07:29
ke4qqq	well you talked about automation jds2001. So maybe some tool that does that - though BZ is used for just about everything, so it may be a fight that will never be won	07:30
poelcat	"when all you have is bugzilla, everything looks like a bug" :)	07:30
ke4qqq	heh	07:31
poelcat	so... anyone hear from comphappy on GM script?	07:31
poelcat	i posted feedback to f-t-l	07:31
poelcat	there being no status for GM... we have one more topic from last week which was "is it okay to triage your own bugs?"	07:33
poelcat	having had a whole week to think about it what do folks think?	07:34
* poelcat says "it is okay" :)		07:34
poelcat	if more people were triaging bugs then maybe not, but here we are	07:34
jds2001	i try not to triage my own, since they may be complete rubbish.	07:36
jds2001	especially in components that I'm not familiar with.	07:36
poelcat	jds2001: that is a good distinction	07:37
ke4qqq	true	07:37
poelcat	i was thinking of really obvious selinux AVCs	07:37
poelcat	or anaconda traceback	07:38
jds2001	SaveToBugzilla ftw! :)	07:38
jds2001	sorry, had to	07:38
pjones	I don't think there's any way to get good triage without that, actually.	07:39
pjones	effectively, that's what happens with the complex bugs even when we have dedicated triagers.	07:39
pjones	oh, wait, you mean "your own" from a QA standpoint, not a package-owner standpoint.	07:39
ke4qqq	pjones: yes	07:40
poelcat	pjones: or "bug reporter"	07:41
poelcat	anything else for this week or shall we wrap things up?	07:43
jds2001	i guess that means wrap things up :)	07:45
poelcat	thanks for coming everyone!	07:46

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