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Fedora Project Board Meeting :: Tuesday 2008-04-01

Roll Call

Attendees: Everyone on #fedora-board-meeting

Discussion Summary

Spins (2008-01-29)

  • JefSpaleta/SpinReleaseProcessProposal
  • No decenting votes on proposal
  • Concerns about how and where spins will be built and interactions with SELinux
  • OWNER: Karsten Wade
  • ACTION: Organize a special meeting to discuss SELinux issues and go-forward plan

Codeina (2008-02-26)

  • board revisited previous decision
  • agreed to revert to Fedora 8 Codeina behavior and include latest Fedora 8 Codeina package in Fedora 9
  • revisit Codeina again at start of Fedora 10
  • OWNERS: Seth Vidal and Chris Aillon
  • ACTION: co-maintainers for codeina--add latest Fedora 8 version to rawhide for Fedora 9

Other discussion

  • See transcript

IRC Transcript

  • Raw discussion is here
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<tr id="t14:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Hi all</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:00" class="time">14:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">We'll give people a few more minutes to trickle in</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:00" class="time">14:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:01"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Note that the Board members are *not* (or should not be) watching #fedora-board-public</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:01" class="time">14:01</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:01"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">We'll just wait for questions to come in from Max after talking about spins a bit.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:01" class="time">14:01</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:02"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">im not watching anything other than a data server catch on fire</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:02" class="time">14:02</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:02"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Nice.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:02" class="time">14:02</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:03"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">sorry I'm late</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:03" class="time">14:03</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:04"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">couldn't find the post with the channel</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:04" class="time">14:04</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:04"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">We'll commence in about 3 minutes.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:04" class="time">14:04</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:04"><td class="action" colspan="2">* stickster wields Iron Scheduling Fist o' Doom</td><td><a href="#t14:04" class="time">14:04</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:04"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">you have a iron scheduling fist?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:04" class="time">14:04</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">I mean - an iron fist would be handy when you have lots of wrinkly shirts</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:05" class="time">14:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">but I don't know that I want hot-pressed schedules</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:05" class="time">14:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">My schedules are crisp, yo</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:05" class="time">14:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">crickets</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:05" class="time">14:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:05"><td class="action" colspan="2">* skvidal enjoys a caffeinated beverage called a 'voltaire'</td><td><a href="#t14:05" class="time">14:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">3 shots of espresso and hot chocolate</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">it's REALLY REALLY good</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">skvidal, we really need synthetic expresso</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:07"><td class="other" colspan="2">-!- Irssi: #fedora-board-meeting: Total of 21 nicks [2 ops, 0 halfops, 7 voices, 12 normal] </td><td><a href="#t14:07" class="time">14:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">spoleeba: indeed</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:07" class="time">14:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:08"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">so it doesn't have to come so far :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:08" class="time">14:08</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:08"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">oh and.. im not on the phone for this meeting.. my hands they are a busy</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:08" class="time">14:08</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:08"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">eww</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:08" class="time">14:08</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:08"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">too much information</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:08" class="time">14:08</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">OK, let's commence</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40"><meeting></td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Seriously.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Roll call!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">PaulFrields</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">SethVidal</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">Christopher Aillon</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">steved</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">SteveDickson</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">KarstenWade</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">Bill Nottingham</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">yo</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">Matt Domsch</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">okay thats it im afk for a bit... if someone bothers to ask a question about spins.. just make up an answer...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:11" class="time">14:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">heh</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:11" class="time">14:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">So speaking of spins... <a href="[[JefSpaleta/SpinReleaseProcessProposal">https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JefSpaleta/SpinReleaseProcessProposal</a></td><td]] class="time"><a href="#t14:11" class="time">14:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Has everyone had a chance to review Jef's proposal?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:12" class="time">14:12</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">steved</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:12" class="time">14:12</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">steved</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">+1 that is...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:12" class="time">14:12</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">+1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:12" class="time">14:12</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">+1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:13" class="time">14:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">+1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:13" class="time">14:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">yeah it seems reasonable to me.  and if others are happy with it, i am too.  +1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:13" class="time">14:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">+1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:13" class="time">14:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">spoleeba: I like the fact that you have these tracked like features.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:13" class="time">14:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">dgilmore: <a href="[[JefSpaleta/SpinReleaseProcessProposal">https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JefSpaleta/SpinReleaseProcessProposal</a>]] ... just discussing that</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:13" class="time">14:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93"> I like that it's blocking on the creation of a Spins SIG to oversee it</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:14" class="time">14:14</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:14"><td class="action" colspan="2">* steved nees to read <a href="[[JefSpaleta/SpinReleaseProcessAmendments">https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JefSpaleta/SpinReleaseProcessAmendments</a></td><td><a]] href="#t14:14" class="time">14:14</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">rather than blocking on infrastructure</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:14" class="time">14:14</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">(though mmcgrath may still have heartburn)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:15" class="time">14:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">mdomsch: Right, in order for this to work, it's got to have a community of people who are interested in putting together best practices.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:15" class="time">14:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">yummy mmcgrath heartburn :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:15" class="time">14:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:15"><td class="action" colspan="2">* caillon nominates mmcgrath to head the spins sig</td><td><a href="#t14:15" class="time">14:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">yes, but then he'll have a SIG to get antacid tabs from</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:15" class="time">14:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">we self-medicate around here</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:15" class="time">14:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">since he doesn't have voice here to protest ...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:15" class="time">14:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">:)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:15" class="time">14:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">:)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:15" class="time">14:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">mdomsch: you too?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:15" class="time">14:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">caillon: seconded!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:16" class="time">14:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">damn it</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:16" class="time">14:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">BTW I'm +1 on the proposal</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:16" class="time">14:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">stickster, do you get a formal vote? :P</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:16" class="time">14:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">caillon: Not really, I just wanted spoleeba to feel good about himself.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:17" class="time">14:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">and composing the spins on infrastructure solves the hangup about hacked systems (well, as much as composes for non-spins do)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:17" class="time">14:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:17"><td class="action" colspan="2">* quaid was going to nominate spoleeba to head the Spins SIG, since he is afk ... :)</td><td><a href="#t14:17" class="time">14:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f">mmcgrath</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">pong?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:17" class="time">14:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f">mmcgrath</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">what did I do?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:17" class="time">14:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">mdomsch: But it should be clear that getting the composing stuff off the ground isn't something Infrastructure has to do in a vaccuum.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:17" class="time">14:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">haha</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:17" class="time">14:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">They do it in response to an active SIG</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:17" class="time">14:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">in case spevack needs to +v someone</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:18" class="time">14:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b">dgilmore</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">stickster: anything infrastructure does doesnt have  to and should not be done in a vacuum</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:18" class="time">14:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">or -v them</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:18" class="time">14:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">mdomsch: or wishes to kickban us :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:18" class="time">14:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:18"><td class="action" colspan="2">* spevack has teh powar</td><td><a href="#t14:18" class="time">14:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">dgilmore: +10 that.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:18" class="time">14:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:19"><td class="action" colspan="2">* mmcgrath doesn't think what we're doing is in a vacuum wrt spins.  But we can't give just give out root on the spins boxes to everyone and you can't spin without root.</td><td><a href="#t14:19" class="time">14:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:19"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b">dgilmore</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">mmcgrath: :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:19" class="time">14:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:19"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f">mmcgrath</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">well, at least until we can build spins on the build servers.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:19" class="time">14:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">no reason for Infra to give out root on that box, is there?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:20" class="time">14:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">ah</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:20" class="time">14:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">what we need is a way of submitting spins using a web browser</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:20" class="time">14:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b">dgilmore</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">mmcgrath: which means that people should work on code to fix that</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:20" class="time">14:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">and then a system takes the kickstarts</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:20" class="time">14:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">and magically creates them</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:20" class="time">14:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">skvidal: alt ...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:20" class="time">14:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">GSoC project...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:20" class="time">14:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">Ok, here are the current problems.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:20" class="time">14:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">and notifies a user</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:20" class="time">14:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">mmcgrath: dgilmore: And the Spins SIG is perfect to help get that done.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:20" class="time">14:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f">mmcgrath</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">skvidal: thats a bandaid.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:20" class="time">14:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">skvidal: if we're using SCM to store the kickstart files</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:20" class="time">14:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">what a crazy idea</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:20" class="time">14:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">any access to mock on a box == root access</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:20" class="time">14:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">so even if we could do live images in mock, we can't give out that access</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:20" class="time">14:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f">mmcgrath</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">f13: but we don't give "root access" to people on the builders and packages get built.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:20" class="time">14:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">script to checkout from CVS and build?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:20" class="time">14:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">Live images don't work in mock, so the host system has to be running the OS that you wish to compose.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:20" class="time">14:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f">mmcgrath</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">f13: live images _need_ to work in mock.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:21" class="time">14:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">mmcgrath: we may be waiting a long time for the selinux folks to get their act together on that</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:21" class="time">14:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f">mmcgrath</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">thats the step the people don't seem to be taking and it makes me mad.  I get it.  Its work.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:21" class="time">14:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">it's work that we just can't do on our own</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:21" class="time">14:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">we can't magically make it happen</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:21" class="time">14:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f">mmcgrath</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">if the selinux guys can't get their act together its time we remove that 'feature'</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:21" class="time">14:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:21"><td class="action" colspan="2">* mmcgrath notes to the board this entire thing is an selinux context issue.</td><td><a href="#t14:21" class="time">14:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">what might be best</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:21" class="time">14:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">is if we can spin up guests on demand for the production of a particular spin, then destroy that guest</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:21" class="time">14:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">only the spin maker would have login to the guest, and that solves our "root" issues</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:22" class="time">14:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">f13: That's what I was just thinking</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:22" class="time">14:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">hm, yes...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:22" class="time">14:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">mmcgrath: who has taken this issue to the SELinux team?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:22" class="time">14:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">getting resources to make that reasonable may still happen before we can "fix" selinux.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:22" class="time">14:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">bac</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:22" class="time">14:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">is f13 breathing over dwalsh's desk?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:22" class="time">14:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">jeremy has taken it up with them quite often</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:22" class="time">14:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">I have a few times</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:22" class="time">14:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:22"><td class="action" colspan="2">* skvidal notes again - if we submitted the spin ks.cfg via the web</td><td><a href="#t14:22" class="time">14:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:22"><td class="action" colspan="2">* mmcgrath thinks jeremy did</td><td><a href="#t14:22" class="time">14:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">I do believe pjones has once or twice</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:22" class="time">14:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">then the spinmaker can do this automagically</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:22" class="time">14:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">istr a project to do just that</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:23" class="time">14:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">skvidal: right, it could spin up the guest on demand to handle the ks</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:23" class="time">14:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">ok ...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:23" class="time">14:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">f13: right</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:23" class="time">14:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">and then notify whomever submitted it and give them a link to download their spin</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:23" class="time">14:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">and a timelimit</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:23" class="time">14:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">either submit via web or commit to CVS and tag it, then have it picked up from CVS</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:23" class="time">14:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f">mmcgrath</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">spining up guests on demand is a nasty hack, why can't we just build these things on the builders where the rest of what we build is built?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:23" class="time">14:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">mmcgrath: SELINUX</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:23" class="time">14:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">that thing which we can't fix overnight</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:23" class="time">14:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">mmcgrath: because we are not likely to "remove" SELinux</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:23" class="time">14:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">mmcgrath: spinning up guests on demand is a nasty hack?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:23" class="time">14:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:24"><td class="action" colspan="2">* mmcgrath thought we were talking about getting rid of selinux on the spins.</td><td><a href="#t14:24" class="time">14:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I thought spinning up guests on demand is a supercool feature.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:24" class="time">14:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">creating guests on demand seems entirely within the point of virt</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:24" class="time">14:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f">mmcgrath</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">skvidal: to fix this problem.  yes.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:24" class="time">14:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">mmcgrath: why not just do an image-in-a-file and reset</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:24" class="time">14:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f">mmcgrath</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">image in a file needs to be kept up to date.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:24" class="time">14:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">mmcgrath: yes, and?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:24" class="time">14:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">mmcgrath: well, that's an Infra/Rel Eng technical discussion</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:24" class="time">14:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">mmcgrath: image in file can be re-created each time from scratch</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:24" class="time">14:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f">mmcgrath</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">and we're letting the selinux guys off the hook while shifting all the burden onto us.  Which is stupid.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:24" class="time">14:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">which is the right thing to do for using it to make spins</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:24" class="time">14:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f">mmcgrath</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">they need to fix their code.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:24" class="time">14:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f">mmcgrath</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">if they can't, we need to get rid of it.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:24" class="time">14:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">mmcgrath: agreed about needing to fix the code</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:25" class="time">14:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">we don't get to make those kind of demands</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:25" class="time">14:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">mmcgrath: but we can't get rid of it that simply :(</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:25" class="time">14:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f">mmcgrath</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">So lets get the board to send them a little note that says "don't ignore us"</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:25" class="time">14:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f">mmcgrath</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">because thats what they're doing.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:25" class="time">14:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">f13: well we can definitely request stuff gets fixed</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:25" class="time">14:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">And we can't hold our community hostage while we deal with the SELinux demands.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:25" class="time">14:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f">mmcgrath</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">and we're letting them.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:25" class="time">14:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">and honestly, mock is around just because it's a bit faster than spinning up guests on demand to do builds</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:25" class="time">14:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">f13: I don't think that's unfair at all</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:25" class="time">14:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">if virt was faster, we'd absolutely be using virt instead of mock.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:25" class="time">14:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">it's /much/ safer.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:25" class="time">14:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:25"><td class="action" colspan="2">* mmcgrath doesn't think any of the community is actually doing anything with selinux.  I'm pretty sure its all RH people to which we have managers we can go to.</td><td><a href="#t14:25" class="time">14:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">f13, let's assume this is solved...  what other concerns might you have?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:26" class="time">14:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">f13: mock and virt are not mutually exclusive</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:26" class="time">14:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">skvidal: request yes, demand and threaten to drop selinux all together no.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:26" class="time">14:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">mmcgrath: that's inaccurate</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:26" class="time">14:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f">mmcgrath</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">quaid: k, then I'm mistaken.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:26" class="time">14:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">mdomsch: kernel leakage, glibc issues, insta-root access</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:26" class="time">14:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">mdomsch: yum /rpm mismatches</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:26" class="time">14:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">okay, let's take a step back here</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:26" class="time">14:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f">mmcgrath</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">needless to say what I'm hearing is "Infrastructure is accountable for the actions of Selinux" with regards to this problem.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:26" class="time">14:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">mmcgrath: but it does happen that the community of developers happen to be mostly paid by _someone_, just not RHT</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:26" class="time">14:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">1. do we know who to talk to about selinux and mock and spins?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:27" class="time">14:27</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">mmcgrath: I can't say that because what we have in this conversation so far is generally sweeping statements, and I need more details as to why it is "their fault" than we are going to go into on IRC</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:27" class="time">14:27</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">f13, glibc, yum/rpm mismatches would be responsibility of Spins SIG technical vetting</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:27" class="time">14:27</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">1a. if so then what have they said?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:27" class="time">14:27</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">skvidal: dwalsh</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:27" class="time">14:27</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">skvidal: but ...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:27" class="time">14:27</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">mdomsch: I meant using mock in general, IE using RHEL5's kernel/yum/rpm/glibc to populate buildroots.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:27" class="time">14:27</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f">mmcgrath</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">quaid: I'm only angry because I've brought this issue up many times on FAB only to be met with "thats hard" or had no response at all.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:27" class="time">14:27</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">skvidal: it sounds like we are being asked to take over in an escalation because >1 persons are not getting through</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:27" class="time">14:27</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">quaid: that's fine with me</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:28" class="time">14:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">James Morris is the last person I talked to wrt selinux and rpm</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:28" class="time">14:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">mmcgrath: same for me there, I didn't have enough details from those conversations to know how to contribute to make it better</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:28" class="time">14:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">His idea was to patch rpm, and he was working with rpm5 to do this</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:28" class="time">14:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">and I don't know where it went from there</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:28" class="time">14:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">James Morris <jmorris@namei.org></td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:28" class="time">14:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">quaid, me.. baseball bat...plane ticket == make it better</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:28" class="time">14:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">working with rpm*5*?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:28" class="time">14:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">skvidal: quaid: mmcgrath: This seems like the right kind of issue for the Board to solve.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:28" class="time">14:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">f13: rpm5?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:29" class="time">14:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">I'll volunteer to coordinate across the people issues</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:29" class="time">14:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">Stephen Smalley is also involved in this issue.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:29" class="time">14:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">f13, if we're spinning up guests, they need not be RHEL5 guests</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:29" class="time">14:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">but I might need someone (skvidal or dgilmore) to help with any of the techie parts I don't get yet</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:29" class="time">14:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f">mmcgrath</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">stickster: then somehow we need to hold selinux accountable.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:29" class="time">14:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">mdomsch: lets move this side conversation elsewhere, I think we're talking past eachother.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:29" class="time">14:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b">dgilmore</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">quaid: ill straighten you out</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:29" class="time">14:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">quaid: I'm in, sure</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:29" class="time">14:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">skvidal: apparently they're easier to "work with" than Red Hat's rpm team.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:29" class="time">14:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">I know all those cats for years so am happy to do what I can to make it work.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:29" class="time">14:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">f13: according to whom?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:29" class="time">14:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">skvidal: (which means "They took our patch, you didn't"</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:29" class="time">14:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">skvidal: the NSA folsk working on SELinux</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:30" class="time">14:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:30"><td class="action" colspan="2">* skvidal bangs his head</td><td><a href="#t14:30" class="time">14:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">well</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:30" class="time">14:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">until 2 weeks ago rpm inside rh didn't have a 'team'</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:30" class="time">14:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">it had panu</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:30" class="time">14:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">now there are 3 people working on rpm</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:30" class="time">14:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">to solve that we get morris and walsh to tell NSA why and why not</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:30" class="time">14:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">quaid: morris isn't a RH employee</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:30" class="time">14:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">mmcgrath: I think we have pressure points left to squeeze here.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:30" class="time">14:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">f13: ah, I missed that transition</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:30" class="time">14:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">at least the mail I'm getting from him isn't from @redhat</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:30" class="time">14:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">no one uses rpm5 in any major distribution. If the NSA care about working with pld linux, that's fine</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:31" class="time">14:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">maybe he is and I'm confused.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:31" class="time">14:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f">mmcgrath</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">stickster: it'd be nice if they at least responded on f-a-b or took part in the conversation at least :-/</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:31" class="time">14:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">but if they care about working with fedora and rhel then sending patches to rpm5 is the same as to /dev/null</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:31" class="time">14:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">mmcgrath: I'll lend a hand to quaid to get that done.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:31" class="time">14:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">f13: finger says he's with RHT</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:31" class="time">14:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">the big thing here is that this just isn't an easy thign to "fix"</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:31" class="time">14:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">f13: in your office :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:31" class="time">14:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">okay, let's table this - quaid can you bring a handful of us together about it?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:31" class="time">14:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">+1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:31" class="time">14:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">skvidal: +1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:31" class="time">14:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">quaid: ah, either there is another James Morris, or he's sending mail from outside @rh.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:31" class="time">14:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b">dgilmore</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">+1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:31" class="time">14:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">f13: the latter I reckon :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:32" class="time">14:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">quaid: also let's make it a phone call, unless anyone objects</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:32" class="time">14:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">skvidal: good idea, thx</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:32" class="time">14:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">We need to move on to taking the community Q&A.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:32" class="time">14:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">stickster: +1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:32" class="time">14:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">stickster: +1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:32" class="time">14:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">yay questions</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:32" class="time">14:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">mmcgrath: thanks for vehemence, btw :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:32" class="time">14:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">quaid: mmcgrath++</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:32" class="time">14:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:32"><td class="action" colspan="2">* mmcgrath <3 fedora :) happy to do it</td><td><a href="#t14:32" class="time">14:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">spevack: I have a question - according to the rawhide report today fedora is switching to dpkg and apt - why is that?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:32" class="time">14:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555">spevack</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">heh</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:33" class="time">14:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">:)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:33" class="time">14:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555">spevack</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">well, here's the first question just to generate some conversation.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:33" class="time">14:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555">spevack</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">Not necessarily speaking as One Voice from the Fedora Board, but individually:</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:33" class="time">14:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b">dgilmore</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">skvidal: yum was just not good enough ;)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:33" class="time">14:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">It's slow.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:33" class="time">14:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555">spevack</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">what are some of the things in the Fedora World that you are each hoping to see happen in the F10 timeframe?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:34" class="time">14:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">dgilmore: yah, I know - I'm gonna go slit my wrists - remember 'down, not across'</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:34" class="time">14:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555">spevack</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">could be distro related, or other Fedora Project stuff.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:34" class="time">14:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">ok, who goes first?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:34" class="time">14:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">skvidal: Red Hat is buying canonical and ubuntu to create the Red Hat Linux Project.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:34" class="time">14:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Somebody -v f13</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:34" class="time">14:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">spevack: there are a lot of changes planned for yum and rpm</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:34" class="time">14:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">spevack, an open robotics SIG!!!!!!!!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:34" class="time">14:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">Fubuntu, an Ubuntu from a Fedora spin</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:35" class="time">14:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">spevack: specifically a fairly significant change to the rpm python bindings to make them less opaque and chock-ful of crazy</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:35" class="time">14:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">spevack, I personally want to see more contributors.  Particularily in QA and testing and triaging worlds.  I see a lot of great things happening there and a lot of room for growth.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:35" class="time">14:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">spevack, I want a Fedora version of SongFight, where the combatants use CC-BY-SA licensing for the submissions</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:35" class="time">14:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:35"><td class="action" colspan="2">* quaid has a hard time thinking six minutes ahead, let alone six months</td><td><a href="#t14:35" class="time">14:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:36"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">quaid, then give us your six second views</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:36" class="time">14:36</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:36"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">caillon: more coffee</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:36" class="time">14:36</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:36"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">i would like to see the default fedora spins fixed so we don't have multiple things that all do the same thing somewhat differently</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:36" class="time">14:36</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:36"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">heh.  +1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:36" class="time">14:36</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:36"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">quaid: No fair worming out of answering!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:36" class="time">14:36</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">spoleeba: F10 is where we catch more air from the momentum we are generating of "Fedora is more than just a Linux distribution"</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:37" class="time">14:37</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">spevack, i want an initiative aimed at recuriting women contributors</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:37" class="time">14:37</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">sorry</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:37" class="time">14:37</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I want to use Fedora as an example of how to create a resurgence in volunteerism.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:37" class="time">14:37</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">spevack: that spoleeba comment above was to you in answer :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:37" class="time">14:37</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">spevack, all of these I'll have time to work on...when people fail to vote for me in the next board election</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:37" class="time">14:37</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">spoleeba: No such luck, member 4 life!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:38" class="time">14:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555">spevack</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">heh</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:38" class="time">14:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">where's my branding iron.....</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:38" class="time">14:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">stickster: you need 'volunteer channel sales', where we connect with groups of volunteers looking for something good to do, and we help them do it</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:38" class="time">14:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">spevack: I want to have a cli echo of MyFedora, that is a python library stack and command line application to abstract many of our tools, so that you can call things like "fedora-packager commit" and "fedora-packager build" and things like that</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:38" class="time">14:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">stickster: the University stuff is a great example of that</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:38" class="time">14:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">spevack: without having to know CVS and make, and whatever.  To ease new contributor training, and to make it easier to change out the sub-systems over time.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:38" class="time">14:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">but there are other ones</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:38" class="time">14:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">I want more corporate contributors (people time, cash) to push bleeding edge development</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:38" class="time">14:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b">dgilmore</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">mdomsch: +1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:39" class="time">14:39</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">mdomsch, SUMMIT!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:39" class="time">14:39</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555">spevack</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">Ok, so let's talk about about MyFedora a little bit then.  Who wants to tell the people out there a bit more about its purpose, plans, schedule, etc?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:39" class="time">14:39</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">spevack: I actually want to have something we can do a hackfest on at the next FUDCon</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:39" class="time">14:39</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">for example, our local Gray Bears (senior advocates) do computer recycling; somewhere after that a new computer comes out, and why isn't it running Fedora?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:39" class="time">14:39</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">mdomsch: is that another form of 'volunteerism'?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:39" class="time">14:39</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">mdomsch, god dang it i wish i could make the summit so I can make a challange to corporate 'partners'</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:39" class="time">14:39</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">quaid: ++</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:39" class="time">14:39</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">quaid, absolutely</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:39" class="time">14:39</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">mdomsch: good :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:39" class="time">14:39</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">sorry jesse</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:39" class="time">14:39</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">:)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:40" class="time">14:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I was just kidding before, that wasn't my doing!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:40" class="time">14:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:40"><td class="action" colspan="2">* dgilmore would like to see more direction for Fedora</td><td><a href="#t14:40" class="time">14:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">spevack: my above about e.g. Gray Bears is my thinking about how we can do a volunteer channel, like the channel sales we see in ISVs</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:40" class="time">14:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Somebody drop $1M on my lap.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:40" class="time">14:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">dgilmore: what is more direction?  and by whom?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:41" class="time">14:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">one other fedora 10 thing is that it would be nice to see more than 2 of the 33 'Features' be done and driven from people outside of RH</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:41" class="time">14:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b">dgilmore</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">for us to  haave clearer log term focus</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:41" class="time">14:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">notting++</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:41" class="time">14:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">notting, i think we need to have multiple release scoping for features</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:41" class="time">14:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b">dgilmore</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">quaid: for us to know what things we want to see for F11 and F12</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:41" class="time">14:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">dgilmore, any thoughts on what the direction should be?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:41" class="time">14:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">notting, with the idea that you have a halfway point milestone</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:41" class="time">14:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b">dgilmore</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">caillon: one thing i would like to see is easier appliance building</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:41" class="time">14:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">spoleeba, I think we do to some extent; features are proposed, some land in the current release, some don't...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:41" class="time">14:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">left? right? north? south?  ;)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:41" class="time">14:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">mdomsch, its not intended that way</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:42" class="time">14:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">spoleeba: it easily could be</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:42" class="time">14:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">spoleeba: in fact</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:42" class="time">14:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">mdomsch, they are planned to get in by the end of that release and then its a failure if its punted</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:42" class="time">14:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">mdomsch, its the wrong way to think bout it</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:42" class="time">14:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">spoleeba: you could just propose an update to the features to allow that, FESCo votes, it's done</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:42" class="time">14:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">spoleeba: then we market it like that</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:42" class="time">14:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">mdomsch, especially for features that could use some..rabble rousing</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:42" class="time">14:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">which might help the people not paid by $dayjob to work on features to get one in</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:42" class="time">14:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">mdomsch, i want to be able to press the laypress to talk about features in progress...as features in progress...to generate excitement for the next milestone</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:43" class="time">14:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b">dgilmore</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">caillon: also Id like to see us work on what is our target market,  and how can we best help that market,  without making things harder for other markets</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:43" class="time">14:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">spoleeba, sure - no reason we couldn't split "big ideas" up over multiple Features/Releases</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:43" class="time">14:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">dgilmore++ to that and what is going on in F Marketing to help us get to that</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:43" class="time">14:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I do think we have to be careful about drawing the corral fence around RHT too strongly wrt. features..</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:43" class="time">14:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">RHT has a habit of hiring people who get things done.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:43" class="time">14:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">the Marketing Plan is ready for use, in terms of useful for this release, etc.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:43" class="time">14:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">stickster: ah, there's a way to attract feature writers!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:43" class="time">14:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">stickster, we have a habit of recommending people who get things done to apply at RHT</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:44" class="time">14:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">So when they continue to GTD after coming on board, we should be careful whipping them for having a lot of rfeature producers</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:44" class="time">14:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">caillon: "we" are RHT, in that case</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:44" class="time">14:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:44"><td class="action" colspan="2">* stickster still misusing pronouns </td><td><a href="#t14:44" class="time">14:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">the point is</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:45" class="time">14:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">we can make it more attractive</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:45" class="time">14:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">and work better</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:45" class="time">14:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">for people not paid to do features</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:45" class="time">14:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">eof</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:45" class="time">14:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">s/it/the feature process/ :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:45" class="time">14:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">stickster: absolutely, it's a matter of increasing the 2, not decreasing the other 31</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:45" class="time">14:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">notting: fair enough.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:45" class="time">14:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">quaid, 4 ways to pay volunteers: credit,swag,skills,cash</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:45" class="time">14:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">alcohol</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:46" class="time">14:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Or, just splitting some of the other 31 more evenly.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:46" class="time">14:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">spoleeba: will you take that to FESCo as a patch to the feature process?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:46" class="time">14:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">caillon: +1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:46" class="time">14:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">quaid, take what?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:46" class="time">14:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">umm</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:46" class="time">14:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">spoleeba: whatever wording changes it takes to make features go >1 release and not be called a failure</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:46" class="time">14:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">And with that, spoleeba becomes the Fedora Project's most experienced proposal writer</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:46" class="time">14:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">I really like what's happening with regard to the EMEA community</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:46" class="time">14:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">quaid, yeah..as soon as you vote in the spins proposal.......</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:46" class="time">14:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">mdomsch: Now you're just sucking up to spevack</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:46" class="time">14:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">spoleeba: but I did vote!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:46" class="time">14:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">and how that will attract more contributors to Fedora</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:46" class="time">14:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:47"><td class="action" colspan="2">* quaid has the buffer to prove it</td><td><a href="#t14:47" class="time">14:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Shall we take another Q?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:47" class="time">14:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">well, I'd do it, but I already have another feature update request for Docs in the works, I don't want to get boring with it</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:47" class="time">14:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">stickster, I think it's a good model for going forward</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:47" class="time">14:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">another q++</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:47" class="time">14:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">mdomsch: Agreed. Just yanking your chain.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:48" class="time">14:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">mdomsch, how do we attract more contributors... i have a slide deck on that</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:48" class="time">14:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555">spevack</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">well, the cool thing about EMEA is that *I* am not really doing anything yet. I'm just there to try to help them run even faster than they already are.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:48" class="time">14:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I am really excited about EMEA in 2008.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:48" class="time">14:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555">spevack</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">The strength of that community is what dictates the larger investment into it.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:48" class="time">14:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">and APAC in 2009! :-)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:48" class="time">14:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:48"><td class="action" colspan="2">* stickster moving to London in 2010.</td><td><a href="#t14:48" class="time">14:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555">spevack</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">There aren't really any other questions... let me fish around.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:48" class="time">14:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">spevack: Just grill us about something, then.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:48" class="time">14:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">You know you want to.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:48" class="time">14:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">I want to continue seeing a Linux distribution that's both Free, and Useful</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:49" class="time">14:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555">spevack</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">So there's one question.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:49" class="time">14:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555">spevack</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">which is kind of a summary of the first part of this meeting</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:49" class="time">14:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:49"><td class="action" colspan="2">* quaid . o O {the next motto to be like a fashion designer:  "Fedora ... London   New York   Paris   Milan  "}</td><td><a href="#t14:49" class="time">14:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:50"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555">spevack</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">Can you guys lay out the next 2 - 3 concrete steps in the spins process?  What's happening next?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:50" class="time">14:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:50"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">quaid: Yeah baby!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:50" class="time">14:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:50"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">spevack: 1. get the sig started</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:50" class="time">14:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:50"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">stickster: you know, there is a Milan office ...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:50" class="time">14:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:50"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">2. figure out what they need</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:50" class="time">14:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:51"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">3. On the back end, some of us board people deal with SELinux response issues.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:51" class="time">14:51</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:51"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">3. sort out all the cruft to get the spins working (either via selinux + rpm + mock fixes) and/or bizarre magic in infrastructure</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:51" class="time">14:51</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:51"><td class="action" colspan="2">* dgilmore wants to see us get a bigger involvement from the APAC region</td><td><a href="#t14:51" class="time">14:51</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:51"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">quaid: ciao, karsten!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:51" class="time">14:51</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:51"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">skvidal: I think your (3) is a SIG accountability</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:51" class="time">14:51</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b">dgilmore</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">skvidal: i like voodoo for bizarre magic</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:52" class="time">14:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">(0) someone steps up to lead the Spins SIG</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:52" class="time">14:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b">dgilmore</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">seems to work well</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:52" class="time">14:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">"a joiner, not a divider"</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:52" class="time">14:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">dgilmore: excellent</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:52" class="time">14:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555">spevack</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">stickster and mdomsch are getting +1's from jeroen in the other channel.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:52" class="time">14:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">if anyone from -public has names to nominate</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:52" class="time">14:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:53"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">they can start lobbying them directly :-)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:53" class="time">14:53</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">did we actual approve the basic proposal?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:55" class="time">14:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">cuz i was going to vote against it</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:55" class="time">14:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">spoleeba: You can if you want, but enough +1's to pass over your objections</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:55" class="time">14:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:55"><td class="action" colspan="2">* jmeeuwen nominates himself for the Spin SIG</td><td><a href="#t14:55" class="time">14:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:56"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">1.1  the SIG MUST start drafting the equivalent of a packaging guidelines..aimed at sigs</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:56" class="time">14:56</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:56"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">err spins</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:56" class="time">14:56</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:56"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">spoleeba: +1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:56" class="time">14:56</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:57"><td class="action" colspan="2">* quaid catches up on other channel discussion</td><td><a href="#t14:57" class="time">14:57</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">jmeeuwen, i'm ok with you taking the lead.  but seems like something that should be voted on by the SIG members as part of the first meeting.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:57" class="time">14:57</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">the process must assume that future boards are going to be highly non-technical...so we need to get guidance in place sooner rather than later that future boards can rely on</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:57" class="time">14:57</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">I have a new name to propose for the Fedora Board</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:57" class="time">14:57</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">jmeeuwen, as you well know, leadership isn't so much granted, as claimed by action.  I know you can do it.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:57" class="time">14:57</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">I was going to say "Fedora Hammer" as in the hammer of the communityu</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:57" class="time">14:57</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">but I think "Fedora Tool" is a better description</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:57" class="time">14:57</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555">spevack</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">Here's a new question:</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:57" class="time">14:57</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:58"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555">spevack</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">Where do we go from here on Codeina?  Thoughts and plans for F10?"</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:58" class="time">14:58</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:58"><th class="nick" style="background: #57a657">jmeeuwen</th><td class="text" style="color: #57a657">caillon, let's get some more SIG members</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:58" class="time">14:58</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:58"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">quaid: I don't want to be a tool.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:58" class="time">14:58</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:58"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">spevack: I hate you.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:58" class="time">14:58</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:58"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">caillon: +1 ... let those want a SIG form one, then worry about a single lead as they progress</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:58" class="time">14:58</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:58"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">spevack, thats the april fool's question right?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:58" class="time">14:58</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:58"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555">spevack</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">stickster: don't kill the messenger</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:58" class="time">14:58</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:58"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I kid! I KID!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:58" class="time">14:58</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:58"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555">spevack</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">:)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:58" class="time">14:58</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">jmeeuwen, yeah.  how do you feel about your recruiting skillz?  :-)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:59" class="time">14:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">spevack, here's how i see it.  JIT time technology for plugins is generally useful</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:59" class="time">14:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">err just in time</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:59" class="time">14:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">well, the current state is that codeina is orphaned, and not scheduled to be in any spin of F10. considering it *is* orphaned, perhaps it should be removed from the repo?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:59" class="time">14:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">notting: is someone replacing the functionality?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:59" class="time">14:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">But codeina isn't designed with the general just in time plugin detection in mind</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:59" class="time">14:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">notting: In a previous meeting you talked about it being easy to replace the current functionality with essentially a link to our wiki page, which *still*, by the way, connects people to Fluendo.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:59" class="time">14:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">notting: Can you actually be responsible for doing that part?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:00" class="time">15:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">I understand the objection of patching the hell out of codeina so it does what we wanted CodecBuddy to do all along</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:00" class="time">15:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">but yeah, what stickster just asked +1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:00" class="time">15:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #57a657">jmeeuwen</th><td class="text" style="color: #57a657">caillon, time will tell if I feel right about my recruiting skillz</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:00" class="time">15:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">quaid, bastien is working on adding RPM provides support to gstreamer such that you drop in a repo which provides appropriate codecs and it can fetch it using package kit.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:00" class="time">15:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">spevack, codeina as implemented right now...solves the 'wrong' problem for the 'wrong' reasons</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:00" class="time">15:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">caillon: ready for F9?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:00" class="time">15:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">what is happening here for the current release</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:00" class="time">15:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">stickster: well.... i personally at this point don't care for such a thing. does the board require it?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:00" class="time">15:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:01"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">quaid, the whole codeina fiasco happened AFTER feature freeze.  so no.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:01" class="time">15:01</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:01"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">we require not to have a regression</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:01" class="time">15:01</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:01"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">was codeina in before freeze?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:01" class="time">15:01</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:01"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">notting: quaid's right, we don't want to see the RHL 7.3 box or equivalent.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:01" class="time">15:01</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:01"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">i believe we decided far too late in the cycle to avoid regressing.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:01" class="time">15:01</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:02"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">was codeina in before freeze?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:02" class="time">15:02</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:02"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">spevack, if it were designed to be a generally applicable layer for just in time plugin support on top of gstreamer, that was vendor agnostic...it would be a more compelling technology</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:02" class="time">15:02</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:02"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">quaid, yes</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:02" class="time">15:02</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:02"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">can we un-orphan it?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:02" class="time">15:02</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:02"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">and patch it?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:02" class="time">15:02</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:02"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">quaid: yes</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:02" class="time">15:02</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:02"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">and have what we need for this release?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:02" class="time">15:02</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:02"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">please?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:02" class="time">15:02</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:02"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">quaid, after freeze the majority vote was that we hate codeina</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:02" class="time">15:02</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:02"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">caillon: orthogonal</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:02" class="time">15:02</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:02"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">caillon: majority vote was, not implemented right</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:02" class="time">15:02</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:03"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">why? what purpose does it actually serve? we get an *abysmal* click-through rsate</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:03" class="time">15:03</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:03"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">spevack, the technology i want to see.. hooks into a distributions packaging system..and when any gst plugin is needed..the packaging system is queried and magic happens</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:03" class="time">15:03</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:03"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555">spevack</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">Next question, whenever you're ready for it: Just for the record, how do we contact the Board?  But finish your codeina discussion/</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:03" class="time">15:03</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:03"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">spevack, there's lots of legal stuff we dont really need to ship by default that gst supports</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:03" class="time">15:03</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:03"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">notting: when Totem hits an MP3 in F9 is it going to give an ugly, informative dialog box?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:03" class="time">15:03</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:03"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Remember that orphaned does not mean GONE.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:03" class="time">15:03</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:03"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">ok</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:03" class="time">15:03</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:04"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Orphaned means no one's doing anything with it.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:04" class="time">15:04</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:04"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">So right now, we don't regress, we just.... coast.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:04" class="time">15:04</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:04"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">spevack, just in time plugin detection is a nice thing..to play with..but it has to be generally applicable</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:04" class="time">15:04</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:04"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">-1 to remove it from the repo then</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:04" class="time">15:04</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:04"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Which is a fail, but it's a failure we accept from our timing choice.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:04" class="time">15:04</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:04"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">But it needs a maintainer.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:04" class="time">15:04</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:04"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">spevack, codeina as it stands is meant to be a technical solution to a specific legal problem..and not a generally useful technology</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:04" class="time">15:04</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Is someone qualified going to step up as a maintainer?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:05" class="time">15:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">stickster: it's not on any spin. so you get a different dialog than you did before</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:05" class="time">15:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">notting: Oh, so it's been removed from comps as an orphan, then?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:05" class="time">15:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">yes</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:05" class="time">15:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">OK.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:05" class="time">15:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">No one is going to know to install it then, which means regression.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:05" class="time">15:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">is there time to add it to comps for PR?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:05" class="time">15:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">so, i must say: why would the board be up in arms about this 'regression' and not care about any other bug or potential 'regression' from F8?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:06" class="time">15:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">it also means we lost a bunch of testing on whatever changes people want to make to it</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:06" class="time">15:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Granted, a regression for < 5% of users according to stats (and maybe < 1%)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:06" class="time">15:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">notting: I didn't cause any of the others? :D</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:06" class="time">15:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">stickster: that's click through</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:06" class="time">15:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">not views</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:06" class="time">15:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">(since we missed beta and at least one weekly compose)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:06" class="time">15:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">quaid: Sorry</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:06" class="time">15:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">presumably more people read it and didn't click further</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:06" class="time">15:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">click-through is *well* under 1%</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:06" class="time">15:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">spevack, i dont have a problem with a plugin technology that multiple vendors could hook into...including our own packagers so we could potentially split up the gst plugins we do ship into finer grained lumps of functionality</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:06" class="time">15:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">notting: it might go up if people couldn't install a freaking blob from inside the distro</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:07" class="time">15:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">wait, is the <1% clickthrough people that installed codecs or read our material on why codecs are bad?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:07" class="time">15:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">"why read that shit when i can load this for free?"</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:07" class="time">15:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">caillon: read the material</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:07" class="time">15:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">no</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:07" class="time">15:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">ok, that's what i thought.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:07" class="time">15:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">read the amterial on the wiki</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:07" class="time">15:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">they still have a dialog that is fairly concise</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:07" class="time">15:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">i imagine the number of people regressed will actually be far higher than that</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:07" class="time">15:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">yes</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:07" class="time">15:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:08"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">since they won't be able to get their codecs anymore</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:08" class="time">15:08</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:08"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">also, what do we do for people who have already purchased codecs?  how does that work?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:08" class="time">15:08</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:08"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">caillon: yes, but the proposal is that they *still* won't</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:08" class="time">15:08</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:08"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">caillon: that works as badly as it did before (no updates)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:08" class="time">15:08</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:08"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">at least, the last proposal i heard was that it would be informational only, no links to mp3 even</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:08" class="time">15:08</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:08"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">yes</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:08" class="time">15:08</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">right now, w/o codeina you get a dialog that says:</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:09" class="time">15:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">but they can read the wiki page and go to fluendo from there</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:09" class="time">15:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">"Totem could not play the file <whatever>"</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:09" class="time">15:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">ok, forget regression or not</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:09" class="time">15:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">that's a hang up</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:09" class="time">15:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">the problem is this:</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:09" class="time">15:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">"Audio codec 'MPEG 1 Layer 3 CBR' is not handled. You might need to install addtional plugins to be able to play some types of movies.'</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:09" class="time">15:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">notting, totem on my rawhide box is fubared.. it doesnt even play codecs i know are installed..from fedora</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:09" class="time">15:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">1. we tried CodecBuddy to solve a problem</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:09" class="time">15:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">notting, like dv video</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:09" class="time">15:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">2. by adding the "install now" crap we got a bigger problem</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:09" class="time">15:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">notting, is that becuase codeina is gone?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:09" class="time">15:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">3. codeina minus install now == what we wanted</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:09" class="time">15:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">notting, im having a hell of a time figuring out what is going oin</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:10" class="time">15:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">4. so why go all the freaking way back to 0 at this point?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:10" class="time">15:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">notting, pitivi works as expected</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:10" class="time">15:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">I did not want that at all, sorry if I haven't been clear in that when I voted on stuff.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:10" class="time">15:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">spoleeba: no, that would be something else</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:10" class="time">15:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">notting, does totem dv work for you in rawhide?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:10" class="time">15:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">We talked before about simply turning the dialog into a link to our wiki site.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:10" class="time">15:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">spoleeba: take it to fedora-devel pls</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:10" class="time">15:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">notting, theora works... raw dv is broken for me... and its unclear if its gst or totem</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:10" class="time">15:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">quaid, oh right</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:10" class="time">15:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">stickster: +1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:11" class="time">15:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">please</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:11" class="time">15:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">quaid, i was just trying to see if codeina's orphanage was the underlying problem</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:11" class="time">15:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">I mean, if there is time and no one else will do it, I guess I'll become a packager this week, too, and unorphan it</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:11" class="time">15:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">-1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:11" class="time">15:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">spoleeba: word</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:11" class="time">15:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">notting: which -1 too?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:11" class="time">15:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">well, let me be verbose</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:12" class="time">15:12</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">please</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:12" class="time">15:12</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:12"><td class="action" colspan="2">* skvidal broke his headphone :(</td><td><a href="#t15:12" class="time">15:12</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">skvidal has IRC rage</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:12" class="time">15:12</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">it just broke off</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:12" class="time">15:12</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">skvidal: Right.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:12" class="time">15:12</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">at this point, i am so tired of this entire issue and how it's been handled in general that i am in favor of just 'doing nothing' and living with the default missing plugin dialogs (which do pop up) rather than trying something new again</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:12" class="time">15:12</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">sorry</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:12" class="time">15:12</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">notting: +1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:13" class="time">15:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">that being said, if the board decides to do something (i.e., i'm overruled), i'll do the bits outside of codeina, as resurrecting it to neuter it is pointless</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:13" class="time">15:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">notting, doing nothing as in going back to the way it worked in e.g. F8?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:13" class="time">15:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">I'd prefer to see the dialog redirect to a wiki page</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:14" class="time">15:14</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">caillon: F7. which is sort of a misnomer as i think the missing-plugin handling in general was different there</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:14" class="time">15:14</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">right</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:14" class="time">15:14</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">notting, +1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:14" class="time">15:14</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">notting:  but we can't do the bits outside of codeina for F9?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:14" class="time">15:14</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">i never said "can't". i just proposed not to.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:15" class="time">15:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">-1 to do nothing in case it's obvious</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:15" class="time">15:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">though i doubt we'll convince hadess to want to reclaim maintainership</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:15" class="time">15:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">notting: I thought we couldn't because of feature freeze</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:15" class="time">15:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I agree.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:15" class="time">15:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Sorry, "I agree with caillon."</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:15" class="time">15:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">(which would truly be "do nothing")</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:15" class="time">15:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">caillon: no comment on that one</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:15" class="time">15:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">quaid: <glibly> we're the board! we can do whatever we want! </glibly></td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:16" class="time">15:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">hadess is now doing something that could end up more powerful and useful for end users and repo maintainers, right?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:16" class="time">15:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">notting: "Fedora Tool"</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:16" class="time">15:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">I'm with quaid on this one - I'd rather see a dialog with redirect to wiki page, than an error message that's meaningless to most people.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:16" class="time">15:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">stickster, for some definition of "now doing"</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:16" class="time">15:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">caillon: fair enough.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:16" class="time">15:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">stickster, he's targetting it for F10, so i think he's more focused on F9 bug fixes atm</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:16" class="time">15:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">caillon: well, the 'do nothing' i suggested was 'remove codeina, do not replace'</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:17" class="time">15:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">caillon: which involves no action from hadess</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:17" class="time">15:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">caillon: I feel bad that it looks like we kicked him, which was not the intent.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:17" class="time">15:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">*sigh.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:17" class="time">15:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">so far I see +3 -2 "for doing nothing"</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:17" class="time">15:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">ah, do nothing do nothing.  not do nothing on this issue.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:17" class="time">15:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">doobie doobie do?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:18" class="time">15:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Where's the rest of the Board on this?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:18" class="time">15:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">i revert my +1 then to 0.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:18" class="time">15:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">dgilmore? spoleeba?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:18" class="time">15:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:18"><td class="action" colspan="2">* quaid doesn't see the hair split that caillon just did</td><td><a href="#t15:18" class="time">15:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">steved?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:18" class="time">15:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:18"><td class="action" colspan="2">* dgilmore thinks that we cant win regardless </td><td><a href="#t15:18" class="time">15:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">okay</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:18" class="time">15:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">stickster, 'do nothing' is notting's 'let codeina die' ?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:18" class="time">15:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">actually, i take that back.  it's pretty much status quo, so...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:18" class="time">15:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">let me make my position a bit more clear</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:18" class="time">15:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:19"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b">dgilmore</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">the path to winning involves getting all codecs redistributable by all</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:19" class="time">15:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:19"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">steved</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">stickster: sorry took an interrupt... :(</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:19" class="time">15:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:19"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">stickster, here's what i would support... removing codeina and coming up with a specification for a just in time gstreamer plugin technology implementation that we would support</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:19" class="time">15:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:19"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">dgilmore: and we argue that the way to support that path is by not conceding to carry stuff "until then to attract more users"</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:19" class="time">15:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:19"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">i do stick by +1 (now that i think about it)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:19" class="time">15:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:19"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">stickster, specific design requrements</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:19" class="time">15:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:19"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">I think we're late in the game</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:19" class="time">15:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">spoleeba: this is for F9 we are discussing</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:20" class="time">15:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">but yes!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:20" class="time">15:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">we're not happy with how things are but we're late (as usual)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:20" class="time">15:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">let's for a change discuss F10 on this</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:20" class="time">15:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b">dgilmore</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">quaid: we were never going to carry stuff.  others were</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:20" class="time">15:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">and not wait until feature freezde to do it</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:20" class="time">15:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Let's first take the issue of what to do for F9.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:20" class="time">15:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">quaid, its not just an F9 issue... we have to chart a way forward regardless of what are action is specifically for F9</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:20" class="time">15:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">well, by the time we decided it for F9 it seems it was too late anyway</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:20" class="time">15:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">(since we're still talking about it)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:20" class="time">15:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">spoleeba: Yes, but let's not avoid the issue of being specific about F9.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:20" class="time">15:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">spoleeba: but ... this current discussion is about what to do for F9, that's all</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:20" class="time">15:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">quaid, just saying 'this isnt the way' just means we'll have to vet another bad idea.... so we have to say 'here is what we do want to see' as a new conversation starting point</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:20" class="time">15:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b">dgilmore</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">for F-9 I say let it be. for F-10 lets start working on a path that we can win</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:21" class="time">15:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">so, we want to kill it, hadess is working on doing that, let's just do it.  F9 will regress.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:21" class="time">15:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">and F10 will win</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:21" class="time">15:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">caillon: I'm not hearing "too late"</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:21" class="time">15:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">caillon, are we sure hadess is doing what we know we will accept?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:21" class="time">15:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">caillon, i dont want to do this AGAIN</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:21" class="time">15:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">spoleeba: +1 on not doing this AGAIN</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:21" class="time">15:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">caillon, because we failed to understand what we actually can accept</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:21" class="time">15:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">spoleeba, I can't speak for the baord... but let me sum up what hadess is doing...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:21" class="time">15:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">we need to see earlier what is happening, and I promise to personally pay fucking attention</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:21" class="time">15:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">spoleeba: If he's working on this at the RPM level, it puts everyone on an even playing field.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:21" class="time">15:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">caillon: not yet</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:21" class="time">15:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">that is another discussion</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:21" class="time">15:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">fair enough</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:22" class="time">15:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:22"><td class="action" colspan="2">* stickster just failed to explain himself properly.</td><td><a href="#t15:22" class="time">15:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">stickster, im all for REGRESSION if we know where we want to go technically with this</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:22" class="time">15:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">stickster, 2 steps forward... 1 step back</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:22" class="time">15:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">I think I see +4 (dgilmore, caillon, skvidal, notting) and -2 (quaid, mdomsch) "for doing nothing"</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:22" class="time">15:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">spoleeba: so if we *don't* know, then what are you for?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:23" class="time">15:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">more like 1 step back, 2 steps forward</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:23" class="time">15:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">and right now everyone will see 1 step back</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:23" class="time">15:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">spoleeba: ah! i see you are working your thought process out loud before voting</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:23" class="time">15:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">but I think it's too late :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:23" class="time">15:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b">dgilmore</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">quaid: i was not +1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:23" class="time">15:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b">dgilmore</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">quaid: im currently 0</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:23" class="time">15:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">dgilmore: sorry, I read " for F-9 I say let it be"</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:23" class="time">15:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">stickster, i demand we know what we want..before we say what we dont want...again</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:24" class="time">15:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">dgilmore: 0 is the same as +1  in this case</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:24" class="time">15:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b">dgilmore</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">quaid: i really dont know what the right path is.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:24" class="time">15:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">stickster, this is like trying to pick a resturant to go to with my wife every week</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:24" class="time">15:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">"i vote we do nothing instead of doing nothing"</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:24" class="time">15:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">caillon: I think that's acceptable if we can say, "Yes, we understand this sucks, but here's where we will be in six months."</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:24" class="time">15:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b">dgilmore</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">quaid: because i dont see a path right now where we win</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:24" class="time">15:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">dgilmore: I do!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:24" class="time">15:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">*sigh*</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:24" class="time">15:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">no, sorry, I don't either</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:24" class="time">15:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b">dgilmore</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">quaid: then enlighten me. I dont se eit</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:25" class="time">15:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">stickster, and they respond with "have fun, i'll be on the isle of man in 6 months"</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:25" class="time">15:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">ok, like this:</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:25" class="time">15:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">quaid, be assured... there is no 'win' here</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:25" class="time">15:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">1. stop the bleeding for F9 that we don't have to have other than "being tired of this issue"</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:25" class="time">15:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">quaid, in anyway that the most people will care about</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:25" class="time">15:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">2. figure out what to do next, including grokking what haddess is doing</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:25" class="time">15:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">3. do it</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:25" class="time">15:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">especially with legal saying we can't link the landing page with another page listing 3rd party repos</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:25" class="time">15:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">4 ...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:25" class="time">15:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">5. profit!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:26" class="time">15:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Let's leave Legal entirely *out* of this discussion.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:26" class="time">15:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">quaid, as to 2.. i have a pretty good idea of what sort of implementation i want to see...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:26" class="time">15:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">stickster: "Don't rub that lamp!"</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:26" class="time">15:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">right.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:26" class="time">15:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">quaid, and yet I am powerless to make it happen</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:26" class="time">15:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">spoleeba: great!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:26" class="time">15:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">fair enough</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:26" class="time">15:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b">dgilmore</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">quaid: if only it was that simple</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:26" class="time">15:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">spoleeba: well, at least we can set the Tool-level commitment six months earlier and find a way to follow up</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:26" class="time">15:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">dgilmore: step 1 is</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:27" class="time">15:27</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">stickster, why can't the board also say "we suck for not caring sooner?  instead of fucking shit up for F9, we'll revert to F8 behavior and we promise to care for F10.  We can now that dist-f10 is available"</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:27" class="time">15:27</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">codeina patched and back in comps for Preview Release</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:27" class="time">15:27</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">caillon: I think that's definitely an option.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:27" class="time">15:27</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">caillon, i'll gladly say I suck</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:27" class="time">15:27</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">caillon: I would be okay w/that, I think.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:27" class="time">15:27</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">okay.  well, that's what I propose.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:28" class="time">15:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">caillon: 'revert to F8'? you mean with the store?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:28" class="time">15:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">*chirp chirp*</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:29" class="time">15:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">can we revert to F8 w/o the store?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:29" class="time">15:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">caillon: that I think is clearly what we are voting on right now, in that is the only thing to do in respone to doing nothing further for F9</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:29" class="time">15:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">or is that not good enough?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:29" class="time">15:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">the f8 behavior is the store, and mp3 plugin, etc.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:29" class="time">15:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">there's no good way to get these codecs.  yes, with the store which is at least legal for some people.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:29" class="time">15:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">unless you're talking about F8 GA, which is goes directly to the store without the informational dialog :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:29" class="time">15:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">skvidal: That would mean doing what we originally proposed, i.e. patching out the XML.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:30" class="time">15:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">notting, right, i meant the f8 updates behavior.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:30" class="time">15:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">stab stab stab</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:30" class="time">15:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:30"><td class="action" colspan="2">* skvidal gives up</td><td><a href="#t15:30" class="time">15:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">F8-updates: +1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:30" class="time">15:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b">dgilmore</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">skvidal: my eyes are gone</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:30" class="time">15:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">and I think I won't be on the board for F10 anyway so it will be SEP :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:30" class="time">15:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">skvidal: don't worry. we'll blame the preceding board.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:30" class="time">15:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">speaking of which, where's rdeiter for his beatin'!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:31" class="time">15:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">skvidal, i feel you.... the vendor specific store..stinks.. i want a vendor neutral approach...we need to know the design roadmap for the 'new' implementation</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:31" class="time">15:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">spoleeba, yes, vendor neutral is on the horizon</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:31" class="time">15:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">stickster: can you sort out what our options are right now?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:31" class="time">15:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b">dgilmore</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">spoleeba: no we dont</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:31" class="time">15:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">okay, then let's suck up what we have</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:31" class="time">15:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b">dgilmore</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">spoleeba: we need to lobby to get redistributable rights to the codecs</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:32" class="time">15:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">and say 'it was too late, we fucked up, here's f8-updates for F9 codeina'</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:32" class="time">15:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:32"><td class="action" colspan="2">* steved needs to run... are we going to make a "final" decision on this?</td><td><a href="#t15:32" class="time">15:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">spoleeba: why? why does the board care about how no particular fedora bits are done EXCEPT THIS ONE THING</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:32" class="time">15:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b">dgilmore</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">spoleeba: thats the only way we can win</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:32" class="time">15:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">dgilmore, I do....because i'm not thrilled about leaving the current store in place..unless 'we' are reasonable sure we dont have to go through this again</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:32" class="time">15:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">dgilmore, we aren't going to 'win' the legal issue</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:32" class="time">15:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">notting, because we get beaten up in the press constantly about this</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:32" class="time">15:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">1. Codeina stays orphaned/dropped for F9.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:32" class="time">15:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b">dgilmore</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">spoleeba: we have no choice but to ignore the existance of things we cant ship</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:32" class="time">15:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">2. Codeina goes back to F8-updates behavior.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:32" class="time">15:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b">dgilmore</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">spoleeba: to do anything else means we loseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:32" class="time">15:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">3. Codeina is stripped to MP3 only.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:32" class="time">15:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">that's because there's no way to win that Fedora can single handedly do.  the problem really is that patents suck.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:33" class="time">15:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b">dgilmore</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">stupid X</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:33" class="time">15:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">mdomsch: and even if it's there, we'll still be beaten up about it</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:33" class="time">15:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">dgilmore, there is a place here for just in time plugin technology that is generally applicable to gstreamer</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:33" class="time">15:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">In 2 or 3, SOMEONE HAS TO MAINTAIN IT.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:33" class="time">15:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">dgilmore, even for legal plugins</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:33" class="time">15:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">4. codeina goes to dialog only (someone suggested that)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:33" class="time">15:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b">dgilmore</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">spoleeba: thats not something we can touch</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:33" class="time">15:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:33"><td class="action" colspan="2">* notting votes for #1</td><td><a href="#t15:33" class="time">15:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">notting: Thank you. That was me, strangely enough.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:33" class="time">15:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I think it was me...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:33" class="time">15:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Maybe it wasn't.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:33" class="time">15:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:34"><td class="action" colspan="2">* mdomsch votes for #2 - we were too late, fix it for F10</td><td><a href="#t15:34" class="time">15:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">on 4. iirc the store shows up empty?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:34" class="time">15:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">quaid: doesn't show up</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:34" class="time">15:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">quaid: No store.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:34" class="time">15:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">I vote for #2 also</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:34" class="time">15:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:34"><td class="action" colspan="2">* skvidal range-votes: 1: +2, 2: +3</td><td><a href="#t15:34" class="time">15:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:34"><td class="action" colspan="2">* dgilmore says we drop codenia on the floor and move on </td><td><a href="#t15:34" class="time">15:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">steved</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">what does "goes to dialog only" mean?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:34" class="time">15:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">steved: quaid: spoleeba: pick a number?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:34" class="time">15:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:35"><td class="action" colspan="2">* steved is trying... :(</td><td><a href="#t15:35" class="time">15:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">I vote #2 with the caveat that we communicate ASAP our intention to replace codeina with the next implementation</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:35" class="time">15:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">steved, "patents suck.  click ok to continue"</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:35" class="time">15:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b">dgilmore</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">spoleeba: by supporting the patents on codecs we only lose.  regardless of how that support is</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:35" class="time">15:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">steved</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">lkl</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:35" class="time">15:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">steved</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">lol</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:35" class="time">15:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">dgilmore, you and I are not speaking the same language at this point</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:35" class="time">15:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">caillon: that would be a kickass dialog</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:35" class="time">15:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:36"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">my range vote then is 2: +1, 4: +2 ... and I'm remain pissed off</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:36" class="time">15:36</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:36"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">heh.  it would.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:36" class="time">15:36</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:36"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I think if #2 passes, the Board has to issue a statement of apology to Bastien and tell people we are doing this because we don't want users to have to suck our tailpipe.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:36" class="time">15:36</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:36"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b">dgilmore</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">spoleeba: no your on some kind of crack.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:36" class="time">15:36</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:36"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">dgilmore, true enough</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:36" class="time">15:36</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:36"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">i bet we could get it translated quickly, too</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:36" class="time">15:36</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:36"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b">dgilmore</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">spoleeba: we cant win with any route</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:36" class="time">15:36</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:36"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">stickster: apologies are bad - let's go with 1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:36" class="time">15:36</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:36"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b">dgilmore</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">except climing everest and getting redistributable rights to all codecs</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:36" class="time">15:36</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">skvidal: dammit, you're breaking my scribbled-down vote list</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:37" class="time">15:37</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">(oh, and that we tried to sneak in a feature change after freeze.)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:37" class="time">15:37</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">dgilmore, no we can't 'win' any argument that involves technology that aims to solve legal issues concerning patents..</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:37" class="time">15:37</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:37"><td class="action" colspan="2">* steved votes for #1</td><td><a href="#t15:37" class="time">15:37</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">dgilmore, which is why im not trying to find a technology that solves that</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:37" class="time">15:37</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">dgilmore, i know.  which is why i want to not hate on users for F9 and we can try to win for F10</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:37" class="time">15:37</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">if we go with 1 then we say 'things suck, we are unhappy with the solution from f8, we found no solution we could live with for F9, a better solution is being worked on for F10'</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:38" class="time">15:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">so, any voted from dgilmore/spoleeba?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:38" class="time">15:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">#2 is effectively a reversal of the previous vote</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:38" class="time">15:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">quaid: Yes.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:38" class="time">15:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">notting, i voted</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:38" class="time">15:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">skvidal: We've said that already.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:38" class="time">15:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">notting, did i mention i hate voting</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:38" class="time">15:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">stickster: nod, understood.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:38" class="time">15:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b">dgilmore</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">notting: my vote is for 1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:38" class="time">15:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:39"><td class="action" colspan="2">* steved needs to break off.... </td><td><a href="#t15:39" class="time">15:39</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Thanks for time steved</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:39" class="time">15:39</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">steved</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">np!!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:39" class="time">15:39</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">so, that leaves us (with quaid's vote counting as one for each): #1 - 4 votes. #2 - 4 votes, #4 - 1 vote</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:39" class="time">15:39</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">this is why I hate voting!!!!!!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:39" class="time">15:39</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">notting: Did you count skvidal as one for each?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:40" class="time">15:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">where the hell is bob? :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:40" class="time">15:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">stickster: he changed his mind</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:40" class="time">15:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">notting: true</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:40" class="time">15:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">ah</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:40" class="time">15:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">So is there a deadlock?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:40" class="time">15:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">so we've basically proved that we dont have concensous on what to do in the near term...which we already knew!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:41" class="time">15:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">yep</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:41" class="time">15:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">and why we are here AGAIN</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:41" class="time">15:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">look, it's simple</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:41" class="time">15:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Nice.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:41" class="time">15:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:41"><td class="action" colspan="2">* spoleeba goes to find a puppy to kick</td><td><a href="#t15:41" class="time">15:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">overarching philosophy</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:41" class="time">15:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">v.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:41" class="time">15:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">users</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:41" class="time">15:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">(as people like to put it)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:41" class="time">15:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">i hate people.. i hate computers</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:41" class="time">15:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">since no one will help do both because we are too tired of this discussion</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:41" class="time">15:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">our new dialog: <a href="http://caillon.fedorapeople.org/patents.png">http://caillon.fedorapeople.org/patents.png</a></td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:42" class="time">15:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">no.. im tired of the spins discussion... this discussion is refreshing in comparison</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:42" class="time">15:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">caillon: nice.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:42" class="time">15:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">caillon: +1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:42" class="time">15:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">stickster: i forget. are you the deadlock breaker? or in case of deadlock, does the board do nothing and whatever the packagers do counts?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:42" class="time">15:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">we shouldn't have a deadlock with an odd # of people?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:42" class="time">15:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">quaid: bob's not here.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:43" class="time">15:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">ah</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:43" class="time">15:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">there we go</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:43" class="time">15:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">quaid, more than 2 options on the table... deadlock can happen with any number</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:43" class="time">15:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">true</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:43" class="time">15:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">quaid, where's that weighted voting guy when you need him</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:43" class="time">15:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:43"><td class="action" colspan="2">* skvidal is fairly heavy</td><td><a href="#t15:43" class="time">15:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">look</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:43" class="time">15:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b">dgilmore</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">skvidal: im heavier</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:43" class="time">15:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">we could _choose_ to do #4</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:43" class="time">15:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">which is the best we _could_ do in the current exact circumstances</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:44" class="time">15:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:44"><td class="action" colspan="2">* skvidal has a bad idea</td><td><a href="#t15:44" class="time">15:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">i think paul does get to be the dead lock breaker</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:44" class="time">15:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">why don't we make a vote?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:44" class="time">15:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">ie: to the fedora contributors</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:44" class="time">15:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">skvidal, did i mention that i also hate democracy</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:44" class="time">15:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">"pass le buck"</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:44" class="time">15:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">that's fine</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:44" class="time">15:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">sure why not?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:44" class="time">15:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b">dgilmore</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">skvidal: thats probably fairest</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:44" class="time">15:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">but we can't make a decisin</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:44" class="time">15:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">we've been back and forth on this a hundred times</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:44" class="time">15:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">quaid, in this case.. its not so much passing the buck..and a displaying a legitmate..lack of concencous</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:45" class="time">15:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">skvidal: can we actually accomplish anything with that in a reasonable period of time?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:45" class="time">15:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b">dgilmore</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">skvidal: lets get a vote setup and have a week to vote on it</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:45" class="time">15:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:45"><td class="action" colspan="2">* stickster thinks.</td><td><a href="#t15:45" class="time">15:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">quaid, we really shouldnt be deciding shit on a cointoss vote</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:45" class="time">15:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">the worst that can happen is we ask fedora-contributors</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:45" class="time">15:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">and they deadlock</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:45" class="time">15:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">then we have to do this and make a decision - or run the clock out</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:45" class="time">15:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">either way - we get it 'solved'</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:45" class="time">15:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">spoleeba: I keep thinking there is something we can do that we all agree on</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:45" class="time">15:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">it was called CodecBuddy once ...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:45" class="time">15:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">quaid, if we are this close to deadlock...we aren't in a position to lead on this issue</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:45" class="time">15:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">quaid, run and hide?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:46" class="time">15:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">quaid: but we don't even agree on that anymore, really</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:46" class="time">15:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">quaid, again.. i hate voting</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:46" class="time">15:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">no</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:46" class="time">15:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:46"><td class="action" colspan="2">* stickster thinks it's fair to note we didn't ask the community to decide this before we notified hadess what we were going to do.</td><td><a href="#t15:46" class="time">15:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">spoleeba, yeah i agree.  to the pub!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:46" class="time">15:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">quaid: and the 'we' has changed since then</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:46" class="time">15:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">it's called implement CodecBuddy with what we have</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:46" class="time">15:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I think the Board needs to not hand the stinky bag to the community.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:46" class="time">15:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">quaid, the problem is.. the decision that i am being FORCED to vote on..is time sensitive</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:46" class="time">15:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">quaid, the thing we can agree on..is in the F10 timeframe</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:46" class="time">15:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">well, that's why the forcing part</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:46" class="time">15:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">stickster: then I think it falls to you</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:46" class="time">15:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">ha!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:46" class="time">15:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">quaid, i hear reasonable consensous about vetting the next implementation</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:47" class="time">15:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">yes</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:47" class="time">15:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">quaid, but the F9 release timeframe demands an action...that doesnt have enough time for us to reach concensous on</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:47" class="time">15:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">quaid, so we should just be honest about that... we fucked up..we are too late..we lost our mandate to lead on this issue for F9</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:47" class="time">15:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">undo the F9 damage as best we can and fix it for F10</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:48" class="time">15:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">stickster: I'll accept whatever decision you come to, I won't even bitch about it on my blog</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:48" class="time">15:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">quaid, but we are sure as hell are gonna be all over this for F10</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:48" class="time">15:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">skvidal, want to be a guest writer in my blog?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:48" class="time">15:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">heh</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:48" class="time">15:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">quaid, we have to take our lumps</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:48" class="time">15:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">spoleeba: no, thanks - lj gives me hives</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:48" class="time">15:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:48"><td class="action" colspan="2">* notting places a +1 vote for f10 to 'whatever hadess is doing'. within reason </td><td><a href="#t15:48" class="time">15:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Look, here's my take.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:48" class="time">15:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">1. We agree codeina sucks.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:49" class="time">15:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">quaid, so to the contributor base we go..for the near term decision</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:49" class="time">15:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">2. We tried to retool it before having a clear replacement plan.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:49" class="time">15:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">s/sucks/ is a problem/</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:49" class="time">15:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">sorry, "codeina in its precise current form"</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:49" class="time">15:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">quaid, by the way.. i loath everything im currently arguing for</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:49" class="time">15:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">quaid, ill cry myself to sleep tonite</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:49" class="time">15:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a"><a href="http://iquaid.org/2008/04/01/solution-to-missing-codecs-in-fedora/">http://iquaid.org/2008/04/01/solution-to-missing-codecs-in-fedora/</a></td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:49" class="time">15:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:50"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">3. We were sneaking in what was basically a feature change after the freeze.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:50" class="time">15:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:50"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">stickster, shame on us</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:50" class="time">15:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:51"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">anyways... i have to go</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:51" class="time">15:51</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:51"><td class="action" colspan="2">* stickster really pulling his hair out over this.</td><td><a href="#t15:51" class="time">15:51</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">In the end, we piss off some new users and a developer who's always done great work in the community.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:52" class="time">15:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b">dgilmore</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">there is a reason im bald</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:52" class="time">15:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">stickster, i'm will caillon if you dont feel comfortable being the deadlock breaker... to the contributor base we go</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:52" class="time">15:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">stickster, and with that..im out</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:52" class="time">15:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:53"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I feel that between our timing and our obvious indecision as an entity, pushing through this change has been a disaster.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:53" class="time">15:53</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:53"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">one thing that is true</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:53" class="time">15:53</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:53"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">this is not a good situation for a coin toss</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:53" class="time">15:53</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:53"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Every bit as much a disaster as taking on Codeina in the first place.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:53" class="time">15:53</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">And what's the common element?  I was on the board back then too.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:54" class="time">15:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">So yes,</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:54" class="time">15:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I'm to blame.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:54" class="time">15:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:54"><td class="action" colspan="2">* mdomsch ducks</td><td><a href="#t15:54" class="time">15:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">stickster: half of us were, iirc</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:54" class="time">15:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Well we can share the stockades then.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:54" class="time">15:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">wh'ever</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:55" class="time">15:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I think what we need to do is realize we are fallible, screwed up the timing, and still care about our principles and realize that we need to play by the distro rules too.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:55" class="time">15:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">we can't do all that</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:55" class="time">15:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">because that means we go back in time and unorphan the package</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:55" class="time">15:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:55"><td class="action" colspan="2">* skvidal will take a hit</td><td><a href="#t15:55" class="time">15:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:56"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">I'll babysit codeina</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:56" class="time">15:56</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:56"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">well, we can find a new owner for it.  i can own it since it's on desktop</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:56" class="time">15:56</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:56"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">or, seth can</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:56" class="time">15:56</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:56"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">:)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:56" class="time">15:56</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:56"><td class="action" colspan="2">* skvidal likes caillon's idea, better</td><td><a href="#t15:56" class="time">15:56</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:56"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">stickster: that's still not a decision ;)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:56" class="time">15:56</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:56"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">notting: Sorry, let me be clear:</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:56" class="time">15:56</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:56"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">We need to revert to F8-updates behavior.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:56" class="time">15:56</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:58"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">we can do that?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:58" class="time">15:58</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:58"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">I think that's really the only sane choice, and fix it for F10</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:58" class="time">15:58</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:58"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">that requires someone to take the package over, right?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:58" class="time">15:58</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:58"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">yeah.  agreed there</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:58" class="time">15:58</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:58"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">quaid: caillon and skvidal both volunteered.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:58" class="time">15:58</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:58"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">caillon: comaintain?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:58" class="time">15:58</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:58"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">three cheers for our brave volunteers. huzzah!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:58" class="time">15:58</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:58"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">caillon and skvidal : thank you, you save me</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:58" class="time">15:58</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:58"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">and maybe we can do something nice for bastien and convince him to do it</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:58" class="time">15:58</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:58"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">*sigh</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:58" class="time">15:58</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">get him tickets for russia.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:59" class="time">15:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">caillon: like buy him lots of beer?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:59" class="time">15:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I am going to be late for my train if I don't leave.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:59" class="time">15:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">ok</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:59" class="time">15:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">(note: almost certainly out of our budget)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:59" class="time">15:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I'm not happy about having to do this.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:59" class="time">15:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">skvidal, something like that, yes</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:59" class="time">15:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">That is, be a tie-breaker.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:59" class="time">15:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">:-(</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:59" class="time">15:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">eh, whatever</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:59" class="time">15:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">stickster, it is your destiny</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:59" class="time">15:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">:-D</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:59" class="time">15:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">embrace it</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:00" class="time">16:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">stickster, it's not quite the same as a veto</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:00" class="time">16:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">that's leadership for ya, sometimes one dude has to make one decision</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:00" class="time">16:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">;-)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:00" class="time">16:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">All right, I'll be thinking on my blog on the train.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:00" class="time">16:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Time to go.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:00" class="time">16:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">quaid: that's also scapegoating, too</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:00" class="time">16:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">quaid: :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:00" class="time">16:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">good meeting guys</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:00" class="time">16:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">skvidal: the thing is</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:00" class="time">16:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">skvidal: the (e)scapegoat is the one that gets away</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:00" class="time">16:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">it's the other goat that gets the knife</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:00" class="time">16:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">mdomsch: really kept to the time limits</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:00" class="time">16:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:01"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">stickster: call end?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:01" class="time">16:01</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:01"><td class="action" colspan="2">* mdomsch always blocks off 90 minutes, what's 30 extra?</td><td><a href="#t16:01" class="time">16:01</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:01"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">haha</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:01" class="time">16:01</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:01"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">sorry guys.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:01" class="time">16:01</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:01"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">mdomsch: 25%?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:01" class="time">16:01</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:01"><td class="action" colspan="2">* stickster goes now</td><td><a href="#t16:01" class="time">16:01</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:01"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">33%, but who's counting</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:01" class="time">16:01</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:01"><td class="action" colspan="2">* mdomsch goes to another meeting</td><td><a href="#t16:01" class="time">16:01</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:02"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">man, what an ass.  tells us what to do and then leaves!!  ;-))</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:02" class="time">16:02</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:02"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a"></meeting></td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:02" class="time">16:02</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:02"><td class="action" colspan="2">* quaid hats an unclosed tag</td><td><a href="#t16:02" class="time">16:02</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:03"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">skvidal, anyway, i'm going to see if hadess wants to reclaim it.  if not, let's comaintain it.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:03" class="time">16:03</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:03"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">caillon: okay, in the meantime I've 'claimed' it for the moment</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:03" class="time">16:03</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:03"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">cool</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:03" class="time">16:03</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">okay</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:05" class="time">16:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">I guess we're done</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:05" class="time">16:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">yeah</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:06" class="time">16:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">spevack, thanks for helping out again</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:06" class="time">16:06</a></td></tr>
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