From Fedora Project Wiki
| Sparks | #startmeeting | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| Sparks | #meetingtopic Docs Meeting 25 Jun 2009 | 00:00 |
| Sparks | #topic Agenda: Docs_Project_meetings | 00:00 |
| Sparks | Roll Call | 00:00 |
| * Sparks is here | 00:00 | |
| * ke4qqq is here | 00:00 | |
| uclugLee | is here (still learning chat code) | 00:01 |
| ke4qqq | welcome Lee! | 00:01 |
| Sparks | Welcome all... Hopefully we'll have a good attendance tonight. | 00:01 |
| * ianweller is kinda maybe sorta here but not really | 00:02 | |
| * rudi is here | 00:02 | |
| ke4qqq | isn't someone paying you to attend ianweller ??? :) | 00:02 |
| * Sparks ties ianweller to a chair | 00:02 | |
| ianweller | ke4qqq: my internet is being fuxxored | 00:02 |
| ianweller | i want to burn my ISP | 00:02 |
| ianweller | but | 00:02 |
| ianweller | yeah | 00:02 |
| ke4qqq | ahhhh ok | 00:02 |
| ianweller | so no warning on whether i'm here or not :P | 00:02 |
| ke4qqq | is that excuse the new 'my dog ate my homework' ? | 00:02 |
| * Sparks hopes that quaid will be here so he can talk about the licensing | 00:03 | |
| ianweller | ke4qqq: ok you ping salina0.ianweller.org and see when it stops responding. :P | 00:03 |
| Sparks | ianweller: Can we all do that? | 00:03 |
| Sparks | home grown DDOS | 00:03 |
| Sparks | :) | 00:03 |
| ianweller | bluh | 00:03 |
| uclugLee | Woohoo!!! My name is registered now...not really sure what that means, but.... | 00:03 |
| * Sparks gives everyone one more minute | 00:05 | |
| ianweller | hmm it seems like my internet is fairly stable now | 00:05 |
| ianweller | whee | 00:05 |
| ke4qqq | ianweller: have you done an unofficial review on ucluglee's package? | 00:05 |
| ianweller | no | 00:05 |
| ianweller | i should probably do that. | 00:05 |
| * Sparks makes a note to doc ianweller's pay for this week | 00:06 | |
| ke4qqq | do I nned to add it to the todo? | 00:06 |
| uclugLee | Wait.......that didn't sound right. | 00:06 |
| ianweller | ke4qqq: that would be extremely helpful | 00:06 |
| Sparks | DO IT! | 00:06 |
| Sparks | Okay... if everyone will take their seats... we'll get started | 00:06 |
| Sparks | quaid: You here? | 00:06 |
| * radsy is here | 00:06 | |
| * Sparks skips the CC licensing topic | 00:07 | |
| Sparks | is anyone here about the shared open-source style guide? | 00:07 |
| ianweller | can someone recap that for me? | 00:07 |
| ianweller | i'm kinda lost about it | 00:07 |
| Sparks | ianweller: as soon as someone fills me in... sure | 00:07 |
| ianweller | hah | 00:08 |
| ianweller | mmmmk | 00:08 |
| ke4qqq | I like the idea - but man someone needs to stand up and lead it - and come up with lots of volunteers | 00:08 |
| Sparks | ke4qqq: Would you like to speak about it? | 00:08 |
| ke4qqq | not really | 00:08 |
| pcutler | Sparks: which one? (I'm here representing GNOME, at a docs conference 2 weeks ago we started working on a shared open source style guide) | 00:08 |
| Sparks | #topic Shared open-source style guide | 00:08 |
| radsy | we have our own internal style guide here | 00:08 |
| Sparks | Okay... let's jump into it, then. | 00:08 |
| ke4qqq | radsy: does it reference cms or ap? | 00:09 |
| radsy | ap? | 00:09 |
| Sparks | pcutler: What can you tell us about the style guide project. | 00:09 |
| Sparks | ? | 00:09 |
| rudi | ke4qqq - neither | 00:09 |
| pcutler | at a docs conference 2 weeks ago, we had various free software projects, including GNOME, XFCE, Ubuntu, Drupal and BSD together. | 00:09 |
| pcutler | during our hackfest on Sunday, one group started working on the style guide, which is a wip found here: http://writingopensource.com/node/14 | 00:10 |
| pcutler | this is in it's infancy, so it's still really rough, and nowhere near complete | 00:10 |
| ke4qqq | radsy - Associates Press - and Chicago Manual of Style | 00:10 |
| * Sparks wonders why I wasn't invited... :( | 00:10 | |
| pcutler | i didn't spend a lot of time on it as I was doing GNOME hackfest stuff | 00:10 |
| Sparks | pcutler: So what do you want/need from us? | 00:11 |
| ke4qqq | radsy: any chance CES's is OPL-licensed? | 00:11 |
| pcutler | Sparks: don't know yet, right now our goal is to get GNOME better integrated downstream and open communication to stuff like this | 00:11 |
| shaunm | pcutler: discussing the open source style guide? | 00:11 |
| pcutler | shaunm: yes | 00:11 |
| pcutler | as far as they style guide, I was there, but wasn't active on that project | 00:12 |
| Sparks | shaunm: If you have something to add please do. | 00:12 |
| radsy | ke4qqq, i'm not sure how it's licensed, but i can probably find out for you | 00:12 |
| radsy | leave it with me | 00:12 |
| pcutler | one topic discussed was how to create our own version of the Chicago Manual of Style long term | 00:12 |
| ke4qqq | that'd be awesome | 00:12 |
| rudi | ke4qqq -- not at the moment, in fact, it's "Confidential" | 00:12 |
| radsy | or that ^ | 00:12 |
| pcutler | "our" as in all open source projects | 00:13 |
| Sparks | I guess I'm just confused about what is needed from Fedora. I'm sure we'd be happy to participate and provide all our documentation as needed. | 00:13 |
| shaunm | I saw some confusion in some places, so I'd just like to point out that the idea is not to get rid of project-specific style guides | 00:13 |
| ke4qqq | they want us to participate in creation - plus fedora has an existing style guide - though it references chicago so it's incomplete in their scope. | 00:14 |
| * quaid slides in the back of the room | 00:14 | |
| shaunm | right, so any sufficiently large documentation project has its own style guide. same happens in the commercial sector | 00:14 |
| shaunm | but project style guides deal with very specific things for that project, and happily leave the general stuff to a general style guide, like CMS or AP | 00:15 |
| Sparks | okay. It would probably be a good time to get some folks working on updating our backend documents (like the style-guide and development documentation) | 00:15 |
| shaunm | the idea is to make a free style guide that can be that general base for all of us | 00:15 |
| quaid | certainly in the area of "is it x86, X86, etc." | 00:16 |
| quaid | we do our readers a service in normalizing | 00:16 |
| Sparks | Okay. Is there anyone that would like to raise their hand and volunteer to work as a liaison and help wrangle this from our end? | 00:16 |
| ke4qqq | I don't mind acting as a liaison there | 00:17 |
| shaunm | and note that I don't know how we're going about this. I'm not the one leading the effort | 00:17 |
| ke4qqq | but I'd really like to see if we could get CES to release theirs under a free license. | 00:17 |
| Sparks | ke4qqq: Thanks. I'll put you on it, then. I'd also like to be involved. Just keep me in the loop of what's happening, please. | 00:17 |
| ke4qqq | np | 00:17 |
| rudi | ke4qqq -- I'll be happy to follow that up. I don't imagine that it would be a big deal. | 00:18 |
| shaunm | ke4qqq: sorry, I'm not familiar with CES. link? | 00:18 |
| quaid | ke4qqq: +1 to an RHT addition | 00:18 |
| rudi | shaunm, actually, ECS -- Red Hat Engineering Content Services | 00:18 |
| ke4qqq | shaunm: Content Engineering Services - it's the docs team at RH | 00:18 |
| shaunm | ah, thanks | 00:18 |
| ke4qqq | wow - sorry for transposing the name | 00:19 |
| rudi | ke4qqq - np. It's not in front of your face every day, like it is for some of us ;) | 00:19 |
| Sparks | Okay, so ke4qqq is going to run with that ball. Does anyone else have anything on this topic? | 00:20 |
| Sparks | shaunm: pcutler: Thanks for helping us understand what's happening here. | 00:21 |
| * Sparks moves back to the first topic since he saw quaid slip into the back of the room. | 00:21 | |
| scramer | Im curious what style guides we have already. the link posted a minute ago. doesn't contain much | 00:21 |
| Sparks | scramer: I think that is something we are going to have to figure out. | 00:22 |
| Sparks | #topic Status on CC license discussion | 00:23 |
| Sparks | quaid: Do you have an update on the license discussion? | 00:23 |
| quaid | short is, I've been on vacation since the last meeting, basically | 00:23 |
| quaid | so I haven't moved the needl | 00:23 |
| quaid | but bonus, I just started up gnote from scratch | 00:24 |
| quaid | and added this as the first to-do item | 00:24 |
| quaid | I'll bounce traffic back to the list asap. | 00:24 |
| quaid | <eof> | 00:24 |
| Sparks | :) | 00:24 |
| Sparks | cool... Does anyone have any questions? | 00:24 |
| quaid | and dependencies I need to know about? | 00:24 |
| Sparks | quaid: Thanks for the update... | 00:26 |
| Sparks | moving on | 00:26 |
| quaid | esp. dependencies :) | 00:26 |
| quaid | so moved | 00:27 |
| Sparks | :) | 00:27 |
| Sparks | #topic Bugzilla Component Changes - User:Sparks/BZ_and_Guide_Table | 00:27 |
| Sparks | So no one has really commented on this. So if no one has anything to say about it tonight I'm going to start the process of converting or changing or leaving alone. | 00:28 |
| * quaid takes a quick final peek | 00:28 | |
| ianweller | Sparks: did you talk to translators about abandoning the translation docs? | 00:28 |
| ianweller | i don't want other subprojects getting angry | 00:29 |
| Sparks | ianweller: yes. I've gotten multiple confirmation on blowing those files away | 00:29 |
| Sparks | errr... abandoning them | 00:29 |
| * Sparks never throws anything away | 00:29 | |
| quaid | it's in Trac now iirc | 00:29 |
| quaid | um, two questions | 00:29 |
| quaid | docs-common has tools in it that are potentially useful, may never be packaged, and are in trac now | 00:29 |
| quaid | do we not need a bug component because it's not a packaged thing? | 00:30 |
| ke4qqq | and many of them still needed for things like RN | 00:30 |
| * quaid is going to go over his alotted two questions, but tries ... | 00:30 | |
| ke4qqq | and older versions of documents such as the IG for F10 | 00:30 |
| quaid | and example-tutorial, is that supplated by create_book? | 00:31 |
| quaid | i.e., if we want a Fedora-specific example, we should put it in publican-fedora, right? | 00:31 |
| * quaid notes there may have been some gold in xml-normalize, but it's probably supplanted by pulican, too | 00:31 | |
| * quaid has latency, argh | 00:32 | |
| quaid | <eoq> | 00:32 |
| Sparks | quaid: We can put anything in bz that needs to be there. I plan on being very flexible with "our" product in bz. | 00:32 |
| quaid | so, if we are doing team wide planning/task management with bz, we probably need to keep docs-common under it's new name | 00:32 |
| Sparks | quaid: And I think many things are going to get "lost" because we will be using publican. | 00:33 |
| Sparks | quaid: +1 to using BZ for... everything | 00:33 |
| quaid | bzborg | 00:33 |
| Sparks | ke4qqq: I'm not sure if I understand your statement | 00:34 |
| quaid | docs-common tools are still needed | 00:34 |
| quaid | for RN and F10 guides, i.e. "PP" (pre-publican) | 00:34 |
| ke4qqq | perhaps I misunderstand then | 00:34 |
| ke4qqq | and even the 'other dogs' that are included with RN post-publican | 00:35 |
| ke4qqq | s/dogs/docs/ | 00:35 |
| quaid | *woof* | 00:35 |
| Sparks | IMO, we need BZ components for all active items not in the wiki... does that make sense? | 00:36 |
| Sparks | If we decide to sunset a project or move it to the wiki we should get rid of the component in BZ to prevent confusion. | 00:37 |
| ke4qqq | eg - we can't EOL docs-common til all of the docs that need docs-common | 00:37 |
| Sparks | yes... that makes sense | 00:37 |
| ke4qqq | are EOLed - which means at least another 12 months | 00:37 |
| quaid | but we can rename it | 00:37 |
| ke4qqq | yep | 00:37 |
| Sparks | okay. 48 more hours and then I'm taking an ax to things... :) | 00:38 |
| Sparks | make notes/updates on the page and let's take further discussion to the list. | 00:39 |
| Sparks | is that okay? | 00:39 |
| ke4qqq | worksforme | 00:39 |
| quaid | k | 00:39 |
| Sparks | This topic really started as a BZ clean up but turned out to be a clean up of Docs! | 00:40 |
| Sparks | Anyone have anything else before we move on? | 00:40 |
| Sparks | #topic CMS Update <-- ke4qqq | 00:40 |
| Sparks | ke4qqq: Zikula... talk to us! | 00:41 |
| ke4qqq | so lots of modules packaged | 00:41 |
| ke4qqq | a few hiccups (licensing) | 00:42 |
| ke4qqq | poelcat has volunteered to take the pm role | 00:42 |
| ke4qqq | but we haven't yet had an initial meeting | 00:42 |
| quaid | ? | 00:42 |
| quaid | I saw that traffic from John | 00:42 |
| quaid | and is that just for the docs.fp.o site? | 00:42 |
| ke4qqq | upstream has been very responsive to our concerns | 00:42 |
| quaid | Zikula++ | 00:42 |
| Sparks | quaid: I think this is for getting the initial instance of Zikula up... which will be docs.fp.o. | 00:43 |
| ke4qqq | quaid: no this is for other fp.o uses as well I suppose | 00:43 |
| quaid | both! neither! | 00:43 |
| ke4qqq | so many groups have an interest | 00:43 |
| Sparks | yes | 00:43 |
| Sparks | Well... | 00:43 |
| ke4qqq | and so many parties are needed | 00:43 |
| Sparks | infra and art are needed initially to make sure everything is... perfect (like it would be any other way) | 00:44 |
| quaid | it would help if we made it clear that this is a step in a process that still includes hope. | 00:44 |
| Sparks | after that it should be an easy process to get other instances up and functioning | 00:44 |
| quaid | for the other teams involved; unless Infra/Websites wants to move in parallel, too | 00:44 |
| ke4qqq | and I am doing a poor job of getting it all done quite honestly, though Sparks has been packaging and stuff like a madman | 00:44 |
| Sparks | ke4qqq: give me keys and I'll drive us to California | 00:45 |
| ke4qqq | :) | 00:45 |
| quaid | this is a nice point for poelcat to step in; it's like a Fedora-ratchet, moving things along from doer to doer :) | 00:45 |
| Sparks | yes | 00:46 |
| Sparks | I think we'll be meeting the beginning of next week (I speculate) | 00:46 |
| Sparks | Anyone have anything else? | 00:47 |
| Sparks | #topic DocsProject wiki pages changes | 00:47 |
| Sparks | ianweller: you still around? | 00:48 |
| Sparks | ianweller: What's the status of getting wikibot out of the garage? | 00:48 |
| * ke4qqq needs to duck out of the meeting - sorry can't stay longer. | 00:48 | |
| shaunm | are you through your agenda items? | 00:48 |
| Sparks | ke4qqq: thanks for coming | 00:48 |
| Sparks | shaunm: about half way through the items... but the last half goes faster | 00:48 |
| * Sparks thinks ianweller is MIA. | 00:49 | |
| shaunm | I have something I'd like to discuss with the fedora docs team, but I don't want to interrupt your agenda | 00:49 |
| Sparks | shaunm: Can you stick around for another ten min? | 00:49 |
| shaunm | sure, no problem | 00:49 |
| Sparks | shaunm: cool | 00:50 |
| Sparks | #topic Status on Installation Guide | 00:50 |
| Sparks | rudi: Any updates on the IG? | 00:50 |
| rudi | Not much -- I'm working my way through the bug list and on some new material that engineers want incorporated | 00:50 |
| rudi | Still hope to have a revised edition ready in the next week or so | 00:51 |
| rudi | (but I think I said that last week) | 00:51 |
| Sparks | :) | 00:52 |
| Sparks | rudi: Cool. If you need anything just let me know. | 00:52 |
| rudi | Ta. | 00:52 |
| Sparks | Anyone have anything for the IG? | 00:52 |
| Sparks | #topic Status on Security Guide | 00:53 |
| Sparks | Well... I submitted a new package for review. I think he likes it. | 00:53 |
| Sparks | Have a couple of open tickets on transitioning some information from the wiki over to the guide. | 00:54 |
| Sparks | And I'd like to make mention of radsy's SELinux guides in the document, somewhere. | 00:54 |
| Sparks | radsy: do you have anything to add? | 00:54 |
| radsy | on the security guide? | 00:54 |
| radsy | no | 00:54 |
| Sparks | Anyone have anything? | 00:54 |
| radsy | it's not in my field of view right now | 00:55 |
| Sparks | #topic Status on SELinux Guides | 00:55 |
| Sparks | radsy: I'm guessing these are, though | 00:55 |
| radsy | i'm trying to beat publican into submission with the user-guide translations, and i'm working on mysql/squid for the services-guide. | 00:56 |
| * Sparks offers his baseball bat | 00:56 | |
| Sparks | radsy: If I can help with the translations (or anything) please let me knwo. | 00:57 |
| Sparks | I know that jjmcd has good experience with the translations, too (more than me) so he might be a good resource | 00:57 |
| Sparks | as soon as he returns from Germany | 00:57 |
| Sparks | Anyone have anything? | 00:58 |
| Sparks | #topic Status on User Guide <-- danielsmw & rudi | 00:58 |
| Sparks | rudi: Any changes to the UG? | 00:58 |
| rudi | Nothing on the radar for this one. | 00:58 |
| Sparks | Anyone have anything? | 00:58 |
| quaid | hmm | 00:59 |
| quaid | is that one being lead? | 00:59 |
| Sparks | quaid: which one? The UG? danielsmw and rudi are assigned to it | 00:59 |
| quaid | ok | 00:59 |
| * Sparks notes he hasn't seen danielsmw around lately | 00:59 | |
| quaid | sorry, was out of touch and missed that folks actually volunteered, bless 'em | 01:00 |
| quaid | I thought danielsmw took an LOA? | 01:00 |
| Sparks | did he? | 01:00 |
| quaid | or am I discombobulating him with jmtaylor? | 01:00 |
| * Sparks will consult his notes after the meeting | 01:00 | |
| quaid | sorry Matthew if I am | 01:00 |
| Sparks | Okay, anythign else on the UG? | 01:00 |
| Sparks | #topic New Guides | 01:00 |
| Sparks | Anyone working on or wanting to work on a new guide? | 01:01 |
| rudi | I plan to work on an Installation Quick Start Guide for F11 | 01:01 |
| rudi | F12 rather | 01:01 |
| Sparks | cool | 01:01 |
| quaid | cool | 01:01 |
| Sparks | step one: put in DVD | 01:01 |
| Sparks | step two: press enter | 01:01 |
| Sparks | step three: walk away | 01:02 |
| Sparks | step four: return and enjoy Fedora goodness | 01:02 |
| Sparks | :) | 01:02 |
| rudi | Yeah; something very much like that :) | 01:02 |
| Sparks | there may be a few steps missing in there but... :) | 01:02 |
| Sparks | rudi: Do you need anyone to help you with this guide? | 01:03 |
| rudi | Sparks -- I'll know more once I have the chance to do some planning with it | 01:03 |
| rudi | I hope that I'll be able to reuse/condense content from some existing docs | 01:03 |
| Sparks | rudi: Okay. Just let me know. | 01:03 |
| Sparks | Anyone else? | 01:03 |
| Sparks | #topic All other busines | 01:04 |
| Sparks | Okay... Who has something they'd like to talk about? | 01:04 |
| * shaunm raises his hand | 01:04 | |
| Sparks | yes shaunm! :) | 01:05 |
| shaunm | yay! | 01:05 |
| shaunm | so there is a small group of people who are discussing coming together for a desktop help summit | 01:05 |
| shaunm | we have interested parties from gnome, kde, xfce, and ubuntu | 01:05 |
| shaunm | it's not a conference. it's a gathering of movers and shakers to bang out some common ground | 01:06 |
| Sparks | docs ground? | 01:06 |
| shaunm | I would very much like it if somebody from the fedora team could make it | 01:06 |
| shaunm | strictly docs, yes | 01:06 |
| Sparks | shaunm: I'm sure we can fill a slot. | 01:06 |
| shaunm | largely focused on desktop help. but if people find something interested to talk about for other types of documentation, I'm not going to shut them up | 01:07 |
| shaunm | *interesting | 01:07 |
| rudi | shaunm -- When and where? | 01:07 |
| quaid | I will caveat that being a starfish-type organization, it's hard to get one person who can speak for direction in terms of common ground ... depending. | 01:07 |
| Sparks | quaid: yes... but one person can at least be the liaison. | 01:08 |
| quaid | my experience is we all get together in person and have great ideas, but moving those through the projects is different. | 01:08 |
| shaunm | quaid: perfectly understood. but somebody who's involved with the fedora team can bring perspective that the rest of us don't have | 01:08 |
| shaunm | nod | 01:08 |
| quaid | I'm curious what thought there is toward virtual and widely inclusive v. physical and therefore exclusive? | 01:08 |
| shaunm | so I've offered to organize and host the event, and if I organize it, it will be in Champaign, IL, US | 01:09 |
| shaunm | and people seem to be perfectly happy to let me do that | 01:09 |
| shaunm | we're tentatively talking about august 21-23 | 01:09 |
| shaunm | (I realize it's rather short notice) | 01:09 |
| Sparks | shaunm: Can you send me a message to sparks@fedoraproject.org with the details, please? | 01:10 |
| shaunm | yessir | 01:10 |
| Sparks | I'll forward the information to the list so we can figure it out on our end. | 01:11 |
| shaunm | great | 01:11 |
| Sparks | Anyone have anything else? | 01:12 |
| Sparks | 5 | 01:13 |
| Sparks | 4 | 01:13 |
| scramer | thank you | 01:13 |
| Sparks | 3 | 01:13 |
| Sparks | scramer: no problem | 01:13 |
| Sparks | 2 | 01:13 |
| Sparks | 1 | 01:13 |
| Sparks | Thanks everyone for coming! | 01:13 |
| Sparks | #endmeeting | 01:14 |