From Fedora Project Wiki
| Sparks | #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings | 00:02 |
|---|---|---|
| zodbot | Meeting started Thu Sep 17 00:02:29 2009 UTC. The chair is Sparks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 00:02 |
| zodbot | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. | 00:02 |
| Sparks | #topic Roll Call | 00:02 |
| * Sparks | 00:02 | |
| * stickster | 00:02 | |
| * jjmcd is here | 00:02 | |
| * joat . | 00:03 | |
| * rudi is here | 00:03 | |
| stickster | Sparks: Should the schedule tasks be on the agenda too? | 00:03 |
| * danielsmw | 00:04 | |
| stickster | http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-docs-tasks.html | 00:04 |
| Sparks | stickster: Probably | 00:04 |
| Sparks | We'll shoe horn it in | 00:04 |
| stickster | I'd recommend that be there on a regular basis, just to avoid any sudden screechy left-hand turns | 00:04 |
| Sparks | Yeah | 00:04 |
| stickster | Even if the kids in the back think it's fun | 00:04 |
| jjmcd | Trubble is, we're already in that state | 00:05 |
| Sparks | Okay, let's get going! | 00:05 |
| * Tsagadai is here but late :) | 00:05 | |
| Sparks | #topic Last week's action items | 00:05 |
| Sparks | quaid to follow up with Mizmo on the Zikula theme | 00:05 |
| Sparks | quaid: You here tonight? | 00:05 |
| stickster | Sparks: I can fill in here | 00:06 |
| Sparks | stickster: go! | 00:06 |
| stickster | mizmo worked for many hours the other night on Zikula theme | 00:06 |
| stickster | But there is some very significant broken stuff in Zikula itself that made the work slow, frustrating, and ultimately unfinished | 00:06 |
| stickster | mizmo has to punt for now because the web design is higher priority and there's too much Zikula architecture stuff to figure out for her to progress as fast as she's used to doing with other frameworks | 00:07 |
| stickster | eof | 00:07 |
| * jjmcd thinks that after we come up for air we need to work on zik dox | 00:08 | |
| Sparks | stickster: So do we need to find someone else to work on the skins? | 00:08 |
| stickster | Sparks: mchua is going to do that | 00:08 |
| Sparks | Okay... Good to know. | 00:09 |
| Sparks | jjmcd: zik dox? | 00:09 |
| * stickster is a little disappointed at Zikula progress -- not because people didn't put forth superhuman effort, because they *did* | 00:09 | |
| jjmcd | My exploration of zikula was hampered by horrible dox | 00:09 |
| jjmcd | lots of them, all useless | 00:09 |
| stickster | More because there's so many broken pieces when you dig inside. | 00:09 |
| Sparks | jjmcd: Yeah | 00:09 |
| Sparks | stickster: I agree | 00:09 |
| Sparks | There were a lot of people that put a lot of work into it and found it "not as advertised" | 00:10 |
| stickster | It makes me want to get further information on (1) how we decided on it, and (2) re-evaluate that process so that we can learn from the experience | 00:10 |
| stickster | But moreover | 00:10 |
| stickster | I think having itbegins around has been helpful | 00:10 |
| * mchua here | 00:10 | |
| stickster | And I want to make sure that what we're learning is being fed back to the Zikula community for action | 00:10 |
| * mchua reads backlog | 00:10 | |
| stickster | mchua: No biggie, just letting Sparks know that you are going to be on the lookout for more theming help for Zikula | 00:10 |
| jjmcd | stickster, that's why I say, once we get capacity free, we ought to help them out, too | 00:11 |
| stickster | jjmcd: A significant portion of the problem may be issues we can't solve, though -- like architectural issues, according to mizmo | 00:11 |
| jjmcd | since they helped us | 00:11 |
| Sparks | stickster: Yeah, we've received a lot of support... but we had to re-engineer so much... | 00:11 |
| stickster | I have no idea myself, not sure I'd know from looking at it anyway :-) | 00:11 |
| mchua | itbegins and mizmo have cleared their plates completely of FI items, so itbegins can help more people do FI stuff instead of doing tons of it himself | 00:11 |
| jjmcd | Oh yeah, we need to give them guidance, but without simon, would you have gotten off the ground? | 00:11 |
| stickster | Not sure. | 00:12 |
| stickster | Anyway, don't let me derail your agenda Sparks, I think we answered the status bit | 00:12 |
| mchua | All the remaining FI work is listed in https://fedorahosted.org/marketing-team/query?status=new&status=assigned&status=reopened&component=Fedora+Insight&order=priority in a manner that is pick-uppable by passers-by. We're trying to doc everything as we go along so future zikula deployments will be smoother. | 00:12 |
| mchua | but yeah, there have been a lot of hacks as we approach the endgame. | 00:13 |
| stickster | mchua: Not to mention the hacking we did in the startgame too :-) | 00:13 |
| mchua | ...that too, yeah. | 00:13 |
| Sparks | Okay... we'll get more into Zikula in a bit.. | 00:13 |
| Sparks | moving on | 00:13 |
| Sparks | quaid to follow up with Richard about the use of the CC logo on the wiki. | 00:13 |
| Sparks | Anyone know about the outcome of this? I feel we have revisited this more times than not. | 00:14 |
| rudi | Haven't heard anything new about it; don't know if quaid has broached the subject with Richard | 00:14 |
| rudi | So, AFAIK, Richard's previous advice stands | 00:14 |
| Sparks | #action quaid to follow up with Richard about the use of the CC logo on the wiki. | 00:15 |
| Sparks | danielsmw to package an editor for Scribite | 00:15 |
| Sparks | This didn't happen. Has anyone stepped up to do this? | 00:15 |
| danielsmw | Sparks: Here's my update. | 00:16 |
| danielsmw | I looked at using TinyMCE and worked at that spec file for a bit | 00:16 |
| danielsmw | I later consulted with abadger1999 and figured out that TinyMCE would be basically impossible to package without 4 or 5 other packages that are questionably packagable | 00:16 |
| Sparks | oh, danielsmw IS here! Welcome! | 00:17 |
| danielsmw | Yes, I'm here. :) | 00:17 |
| * stickster shouts Howdy to danielsmw | 00:17 | |
| Sparks | danielsmw: So scratch TinyMCE | 00:17 |
| danielsmw | Anyway, we've picked up Xinha as our new option, as long as everyone's okay with that. | 00:17 |
| danielsmw | yes, scratch TinyMCE. | 00:17 |
| danielsmw | Xinha looks like it has compliant licenses | 00:17 |
| danielsmw | and is packagable. | 00:17 |
| Sparks | danielsmw: I'm good with whatever works! | 00:17 |
| danielsmw | i'm almost done with the spec file, it's just complicated because of the lack of js guidelines. | 00:18 |
| danielsmw | but abadger1999 is helping with that and hopefully i'll have it up for review before next wednesday. | 00:18 |
| * ianweller is here now | 00:18 | |
| Sparks | abadger1999++ | 00:18 |
| danielsmw | Indeed | 00:18 |
| Sparks | danielsmw++ | 00:18 |
| Sparks | Excellent! | 00:18 |
| Sparks | Okay... moving on... | 00:18 |
| Sparks | ianweller to bring to the list the text for the CC license for the wiki so it can be approved | 00:18 |
| Sparks | ianweller: Just in time! | 00:18 |
| Sparks | ianweller: I think you did this already... didn't you? | 00:19 |
| onekopaka | which CC license? | 00:20 |
| Sparks | CC-BY-SA | 00:20 |
| onekopaka | mmkay. | 00:20 |
| Sparks | ianweller was here.... | 00:20 |
| Sparks | We'll come back to him later... | 00:20 |
| ianweller | hi | 00:21 |
| onekopaka | Sparks: he disappears when he wants to. | 00:21 |
| ianweller | my internet is suck tonight | 00:21 |
| Sparks | ianweller: hi | 00:21 |
| ianweller | aaaagain | 00:21 |
| stickster | :-D | 00:21 |
| ianweller | Sparks: all it needs to say is the message that "blah blah blah is licensed under blah blah blah" at the bottom of the page, just like every CC site | 00:21 |
| ianweller | Sparks: unless you're looking for something different | 00:21 |
| ianweller | i'm not sure if it's a good thing that my ISP's phone number is a busy signal right now ^_^ | 00:22 |
| ianweller | Sparks: is that good? | 00:23 |
| Sparks | ianweller: Works for me... | 00:23 |
| ianweller | ok | 00:23 |
| Sparks | Any other old business? | 00:23 |
| rudi | Publican update? | 00:24 |
| Sparks | #topic Publican Update | 00:24 |
| Sparks | rudi: Go for it! | 00:24 |
| * quaid is back | 00:24 | |
| rudi | radsy, ryanlerch, and I are still waiting for sponsorship so that we can get Publican dependencies into Fedora | 00:24 |
| rudi | Once that's done, we can move ahead with both 1.0 and with the updated Fedora brand package. | 00:25 |
| stickster | ianweller: I think as the wiki czar, you're empowered to make the change, fwiw | 00:25 |
| rudi | So, any trusted packagers out there, we need you :) | 00:25 |
| stickster | ianweller: As long as we've notified people the change is coming, why, etc. | 00:25 |
| rudi | * perl-Locale-Maketext-Gettext-1.27-1.fc11.noarch.rpm – https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=521569 | 00:26 |
| buggbot | Bug 521569: medium, medium, ---, nobody, NEW, Review Request: perl-Locale-Maketext-Gettext - Joins the gettext and Maketext frameworks | 00:26 |
| rudi | * perl-Makefile-DOM-0.004-1.fc11.noarch.rpm — https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=521724 | 00:26 |
| buggbot | Bug 521724: medium, medium, ---, nobody, NEW, Review Request: perl-Makefile-DOM - Simple DOM parser for Makefiles | 00:26 |
| rudi | * perl-Makefile-Parser-0.211-1.fc11.noarch.rpm — https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=521723 | 00:26 |
| buggbot | Bug 521723: medium, medium, ---, nobody, NEW, Review Request: perl-Makefile-Parser - Simple parser for Makefiles | 00:26 |
| Sparks | rudi: Okay. Do we need anyone to give a nudge to someone? | 00:26 |
| rudi | Well, unless we have any trusted packagers in the docs group, I'm open to suggestions... | 00:26 |
| rudi | This is the blocker right now for Publican | 00:27 |
| rudi | ianweller -- are you a trusted packager? | 00:27 |
| ianweller | rudi: i guess | 00:28 |
| Sparks | rudi: I don't think we have any trusted packagers in Docs. Heck, until a few months ago we didn't have packagers in Docs. | 00:28 |
| Sparks | ianweller: Are you? | 00:28 |
| ianweller | they trust me enough to sponsor people | 00:28 |
| rudi | Great! That's what we need :) | 00:28 |
| * ianweller trusts himself less than the community trusts him ;) | 00:28 | |
| rudi | lolz | 00:28 |
| rudi | IMHO, that's always a good sign | 00:29 |
| rudi | Do you think you'll have the time to look at those in the near future>? | 00:30 |
| rudi | (and, of course, would you want to?) | 00:30 |
| Sparks | rudi: Can you get with ianweller after the meeting, maybe? | 00:31 |
| rudi | NP | 00:31 |
| Sparks | rudi: So basically after that you can support the fedora brand in Publican | 00:32 |
| rudi | Yep | 00:32 |
| Sparks | Cool | 00:32 |
| Sparks | Okay, moving on... | 00:32 |
| Sparks | #topic Release notes format changes | 00:32 |
| Sparks | #idea Put All Changes in a separate doc? | 00:33 |
| Sparks | #idea Drop beats with few changes | 00:33 |
| jjmcd | Pretty much did them all except the separate doc ... moved them to the end | 00:33 |
| Sparks | #idea Rearrange/add beats | 00:33 |
| jjmcd | I think we are ready to make pots. Still a couple of beats to touch up, but we should be at the 90% point. | 00:33 |
| Sparks | jjmcd: Cool... | 00:33 |
| jjmcd | Many many thanks to rudi and Zach | 00:33 |
| Sparks | So the RNs are on schedule? | 00:33 |
| jjmcd | L10N will love the 8000+ strings, but I think we'll hide that from them. | 00:34 |
| rudi | jjmcd -- so you're ready to pull the trigger now? :) | 00:34 |
| jjmcd | Sparks, no, not at all | 00:34 |
| jjmcd | rudi yeah | 00:34 |
| Sparks | jjmcd: No? | 00:34 |
| jjmcd | Most recent build at http://jjmcd.fedorapeople.org/Download/f12alpha/index.html | 00:34 |
| jjmcd | Sparks, even after 900 cycles with john | 00:34 |
| rudi | Great -- I'll doctor up a POT file after the meeting :) | 00:34 |
| jjmcd | the wiki freeze came AFTER the pots in the schedule | 00:34 |
| jjmcd | We should have had pots last week | 00:35 |
| jjmcd | With luck, tomorrow. And yeah, htanks much rudi. I would appreciate that | 00:35 |
| Sparks | Okay. Anything I can do to help? Do you need more resources? | 00:35 |
| jjmcd | Well, we should now be in good shape | 00:36 |
| Sparks | Okay | 00:36 |
| Sparks | Anything else? | 00:36 |
| jjmcd | THere are a couple of lame beats, but most of the changes were in virt | 00:36 |
| jjmcd | Also, I got surprised with a huge FEL document | 00:36 |
| jjmcd | I trimmed it way down, but it is still too large | 00:36 |
| jjmcd | Chitlesh has been working his butt off | 00:37 |
| jjmcd | But it is now under control | 00:37 |
| Sparks | cool | 00:37 |
| Sparks | anything/one else? | 00:37 |
| jjmcd | thats it from me | 00:37 |
| Sparks | moving on... | 00:37 |
| Sparks | #topic Status on CMS (Zikula) <-- ke4qqq | 00:37 |
| Sparks | #link Zikula#Module_status | 00:38 |
| stickster | jjmcd: rudi: Thanks for your hard work | 00:38 |
| Sparks | So Zikula has stalled on the runway... Are we now pushing this for f13 for sure? | 00:38 |
| quaid | I think we were clearly not making it for F12, but shortly thereafter | 00:39 |
| Sparks | Okay | 00:39 |
| quaid | we'll be able to ride 80%+ on the Fedora Insight work going on | 00:39 |
| stickster | Assuming that proceeds well | 00:39 |
| quaid | skin, integration, etc. | 00:39 |
| Sparks | WORKSFORME | 00:39 |
| quaid | stickster: well, that would only adjust my 80% down the scale some amount | 00:39 |
| quaid | I hope :) | 00:39 |
| Sparks | I guess the question now is... do we want to try to work on the existing docs.fp.o to clean it up for F12? | 00:40 |
| * mchua wonders if Docs is interested in a zikula sprint for FUDCon as well | 00:40 | |
| Sparks | mchua: Which FUDCon? | 00:40 |
| mchua | f12 | 00:40 |
| jjmcd | or perhaps a docs.fp.o cleanup | 00:41 |
| mchua | as a "Marketing got FI up, let's make our experience useful for Docs" thing infra-wise | 00:41 |
| mchua | and a "Docs is good at writing/workflows, Marketing can learn from Docs in getting an FI zikula workflow tweaked" thing as well, perhaps | 00:41 |
| Sparks | mchua: I'm good with that | 00:42 |
| mchua | Ok. Who should I be coordinating with on that to see if it's a possibility then? Sparks, is that you? | 00:42 |
| Sparks | mchua: Sure. | 00:42 |
| mchua | cool. action item me. ;) | 00:43 |
| Sparks | mchua: Are we talking about the FUDCon in Toronto? | 00:43 |
| mchua | yup. | 00:43 |
| jjmcd | I think it's too cold for these southern boys | 00:43 |
| Sparks | #action mchua to work with Sparks on an FAD for Zikula during FUDCon Toronto | 00:43 |
| Sparks | jjmcd: It is concerning | 00:43 |
| Sparks | Okay... anythign else? | 00:45 |
| Sparks | #topic Status on CC license rollout. | 00:45 |
| Sparks | #link License_changeover_schedule | 00:45 |
| Sparks | I think we are waiting for the last minute request for quaid to talk to Richard about the CC logo on the wiki | 00:46 |
| Sparks | otherwise our next step is to announce internally of the change | 00:46 |
| quaid | well ... | 00:46 |
| quaid | spot: ping | 00:47 |
| spot | quaid: yes? | 00:47 |
| quaid | have you heard anything about discussions with Creative Commons | 00:47 |
| quaid | about using their logo on our websites? | 00:47 |
| spot | i have not... should i have? | 00:47 |
| quaid | rfontana said he was going to pursue something with them perhaps. | 00:48 |
| spot | send him an email and cc me | 00:48 |
| quaid | ok, not sure if you were in that loop or not, I reckon not | 00:48 |
| spot | and i will stay on him | 00:48 |
| quaid | yeah, he said on list that he was going to look in to it, and I didn't want overly bug him :) | 00:48 |
| quaid | but I'll do that now | 00:48 |
| quaid | Sparks: k, we've reached | 00:48 |
| spot | he tends to be busy | 00:48 |
| quaid | the time when i said I'd bug him if we hadn't gotten word | 00:48 |
| quaid | so I'll do that :) | 00:48 |
| spot | i have regular meetings with him to make sure stuff doesn't get lost | 00:48 |
| rudi | For us to be happy to use the logo, CC would have to change *their* licensing... | 00:49 |
| stickster | He's a good mug and won't mind being bugged | 00:49 |
| rudi | I suspect that even if they agree in principle, it would take time for them to implement that change | 00:49 |
| quaid | rudi: well, or give us a specific exception that satisfied us, but ... | 00:49 |
| quaid | that might have the same effect :) | 00:49 |
| quaid | I think we should, as rudi is perhaps hinting | 00:49 |
| Sparks | rudi: They wouldn't have to change their license. We could only use it on the wiki. | 00:50 |
| quaid | proceed as if we don't get the logos to use | 00:50 |
| rudi | Sparks -- ie, change their license | 00:50 |
| Sparks | rudi: Well... yes, they'd have to change for us to use it on our docs | 00:50 |
| rudi | quaid -- that is indeed what I'm hinting :) | 00:50 |
| Sparks | ya | 00:51 |
| Sparks | Well, it really wouldn't be that big of a deal to go back and put the logo in on the wiki... | 00:51 |
| rudi | Exactly | 00:51 |
| Sparks | So... all in favor of proceeding with just the text of the CC-BY-SA | 00:51 |
| Sparks | +1 | 00:51 |
| rudi | +1 | 00:51 |
| quaid | +1 | 00:52 |
| mchua | +1 | 00:52 |
| stickster | +1 fwiw | 00:52 |
| Tsagadai | +1 | 00:52 |
| jjmcd | abstain | 00:52 |
| Sparks | jjmcd: Is there a problem or??? | 00:52 |
| jjmcd | Nope, I see no prob either way | 00:52 |
| Sparks | #agreed Proceed with CC licensing using only the text | 00:53 |
| Sparks | quaid: Will you still follow up on the logo issue? | 00:53 |
| Sparks | #action quaid to follow up on the CC logo issues | 00:54 |
| Sparks | moving on! | 00:54 |
| Sparks | #topic Shared open-source style guide | 00:54 |
| Sparks | #link https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-June/msg00163.html | 00:54 |
| Sparks | Does anyone have an update on this? | 00:55 |
| rudi | No progess since last week | 00:55 |
| Sparks | rudi: Okay | 00:55 |
| Tsagadai | not really an update as such but that may come up when I bring in a few things in a couple of weeks :) | 00:55 |
| Sparks | rudi: Anything to talk about on this topic? | 00:55 |
| Sparks | Tsagadai: Okay | 00:55 |
| Tsagadai | there are 3 docs I have which I've scheduled to upstream as soon as I get a chance | 00:56 |
| rudi | Sparks -- I'm not sure what the last you heard was; I have a greenlight from legal to take most of our internal material upstream | 00:56 |
| Sparks | rudi: I didn't know! Excellent | 00:56 |
| Sparks | rudi: Just keep us updated. | 00:56 |
| rudi | So it now rests on time arising in my schedule, because legal will need to greenlight the final subset I pull out to use | 00:57 |
| Sparks | Okay... cool deal | 00:57 |
| Sparks | anything else? | 00:57 |
| rudi | Tsagadai -- 3 docs for the upstream Style Guide? | 00:57 |
| * Sparks notes two minutes left | 00:58 | |
| Tsagadai | nope, Virt Guide, Git guide, libvirt API guide :) | 00:58 |
| rudi | Ah OK -- you're ahead of us :) | 00:58 |
| Sparks | okay, pressing on | 00:58 |
| Sparks | #topic Guide needs? | 00:58 |
| Sparks | Anyone have any guides that are in need? | 00:59 |
| * stickster has to bail for now | 00:59 | |
| Sparks | #topic New Guides | 00:59 |
| Sparks | Any new guides? | 00:59 |
| Sparks | #topic All other business | 01:00 |
| rudi | Sparks -- I might *very maybe* have an early version of a Power Management guide | 01:00 |
| Sparks | Okay, any other business anyone would like to talk about? | 01:00 |
| rudi | But that's more likely to make F13 | 01:00 |
| Sparks | rudi: Ooooo sounds cool | 01:00 |
| Sparks | Okay, anyone else? | 01:01 |
| Sparks | 5 | 01:01 |
| Sparks | 4 | 01:01 |
| Sparks | 3 | 01:01 |
| perspectival | I've just sent an update concerning the Deployment Guide to the fedora-docs-list | 01:01 |
| Sparks | 2 | 01:01 |
| Sparks | perspectival: +1 | 01:01 |
| perspectival | I try to come in at the last minute | 01:01 |
| Sparks | :) | 01:01 |
| Sparks | 1 | 01:01 |
| Sparks | Anyone else? | 01:01 |
| Sparks | Thanks everyone for coming! | 01:01 |
| Sparks | #endmeeting | 01:01 |