Meeting:Board meeting 2008-12-02

Fedora Project Board Meeting :: Tuesday 2008-12-02

Upcoming Elections

• Elections
• The Board nominees should be appearing at 0200 UTC and 1500 UTC on Friday 2008-12-05 to take questions at #fedora-townhall and #fedora-townhall-public

Q&A Topics

• What are the lessons learned from Fedora 10?
• What will be the impact from the multihead feature?
• Where does Fedora as a project need to improve the most from the community perspective?
• What's stickster's favorite flavor of ice cream?
• Since FUDcon11 was planned in an insensitive way with respect to college football fans, is there a planned BCS championship get-together in the works?

#fedora-board-meeting

stickster	Hi everyone	10:59
stickster	poelcat: All right, do you want to get us started here?	11:00
mdomsch	greetings everyone	11:01
poelcat	I don't believe there is any pending board business at this time	11:01
poelcat	our last meeting was the IRC meeting on 2008-11-18	11:02
poelcat	and for the curious all past meetings are here: Board/Meetings	11:02
stickster	One thing that may bear mentioning is the upcoming town hall meeting schedule for elections	11:02
stickster	The Board nominees should be appearing at 0200 UTC and 1500 UTC on Friday 2008-12-05 to take questions at #fedora-townhall and #fedora-townhall-public	11:03
stickster	Elections	11:03
mdomsch	we're still looking for moderators for those	11:03
mdomsch	hint hint	11:03
stickster	Right, we do need one for the Board.	11:04
stickster	I'm not sure whether there's a conflict in me doing it, but if all else fails, I'll be happy to	11:04
mdomsch	no conflict AFAICT	11:05
stickster	And election nominations are closing tomorrow.	11:05
mdomsch	though I was looking for non-board members	11:05
stickster	mdomsch: Right, I think it would be preferable to have someone involved from the greater community.	11:05
stickster	I'll make another call for help via the planet.	11:05
stickster	Anything else on this topic before we move on to Q&A then?	11:06
spoleeba	mdomsch, im a lame duck so i could moderate without a conflict..but i dont think im available either time	11:06
mdomsch	I'm glad to see several people running for the 2 seats	11:06
* stickster too		11:06
* gregdek stands ready to start Q&A.		11:07
mdomsch	7 people, 2 seats - all excellent candidates	11:07
mdomsch	(present company excluded :-)	11:07
stickster	Do we want to go to Q&A then?	11:07
* stickster looks for some +1's		11:08
mdomsch	+1	11:08
stickster	gregdek: OK, have at it!	11:08
gregdek	nirik asks: What does the board think went right, and what lessons can we learn from f10?	11:08
f13	lessons learned, more QA (isn't that always the lesson?)	11:09
stickster	What went right: Infrastructure.	11:09
mdomsch	stickster, amen	11:09
f13	the current plan I have to attack that is to get more automated QA happening in reactive ways, such as reacting to a CVS checkin and test, react to a build and test, react to a tree compose and test, etc...	11:09
stickster	It was almost a snooze from the perspective of making the sites ready.	11:09
mdomsch	talking points were well covered in the press	11:09
f13	yes, the actual release day process was fantastic.	11:10
mdomsch	stickster was all over the interview circuit	11:10
f13	the best I've ever seen	11:10
stickster	f13: Always talk about the positive parts first! ;-)	11:10
f13	our handling of the blocker tracker was pretty darn good too	11:10
mdomsch	artwork has received lots of kudos - from folks who usually threw stones	11:10
f13	even if it started late.	11:10
stickster	We got very good support from inside Red Hat also, including making contact with the press, sending out Live USB keys to journalists, making some films (some will be emerging in the next 24 hours)	11:11
stickster	f13: kudos on the blocker work, yes.	11:11
stickster	f13: Wasn't this the first release where we actually cleared the blocker list more or less without really shorting anything?	11:11
f13	more or less	11:12
* stickster knows that sounds hedgy		11:12
f13	although it seems we clared one a bit too early (dmraid)	11:12
stickster	oh, :-(	11:12
stickster	But on the whole we didn't really have to wipe a bunch off the list by saying, "Nope, sorry, no time for that."	11:12
f13	that's a lesson learned (:	11:12
mdomsch	excellent response from a lot of contributors towards the blocker list	11:13
f13	We missed some tree sanity issues too, such as conflicts in teh package set, misleading comps filename, and a few other things I think, that really should have been caught at compose time.	11:13
mdomsch	I saw people jumping in to fix FTBFS, helping their fellow packagers out	11:14
f13	yea, that was good to watch	11:14
spoleeba	f13, are the development freeze adjustments in the works for f11 release process going to help address some of those missed composed time checks?	11:15
f13	spoleeba: I hope so. It'll A) give us more time to find them, instead of panicing over late breaking changes, but more importantly B) we're adding tests to tree verify scripts and working out ways to get these ran automatically upon tree creation to find the issues earlier.	11:16
f13	such as each nightly rawhide run	11:16
f13	the trick is to discover the problem /before/ we try to make the final tree, rather than afterward.	11:16
mdomsch	+1 for all the ambassador release parties!	11:17
notting	there's always more bugs than we would like .one of the things we're trying to do more for f11 is make the freezes more frozen	11:17
f13	yeah, release party news is awesome.	11:17
ctyler	mdomsch: aye, three cheers for the release parties	11:17
stickster	I think we had something like 16-18 of them around the world	11:18
stickster	recognized on the events calendar	11:18
stickster	and probably many more that were under the radar	11:18
f13	I saw many comments that the Fedora "noise" was too great to ignore with this release, drawing some folks in to try it that wouldn't have otherwise bothered.	11:18
f13	I had my own personal release party, but only my family was invited	11:18
stickster	We are getting better at making said noise in an organized, coherent fashion	11:19
f13	sadly I coudln't get the chef to make me a fedora branded steak	11:19
stickster	Shall we take another question folks?	11:19
mdomsch	f13, come to austin, I will	11:19
stickster	gregdek: hit us!	11:20
spoleeba	stickster, uhm did we talk about the negative for f10?	11:20
* gregdek waits...		11:20
stickster	QA, broken trees...	11:20
mdomsch	one thing to work on for next time - bitflip + mirrors opening up	11:20
f13	stickster: I did.	11:20
f13	mdomsch: I had a thought on that.	11:20
mdomsch	it takes about a day for the mirrors to all catch the bitflip, so people were getting lots of "Forbidden" messages	11:21
f13	mdomsch: lets say we had a functioning ampq (qpid) message bus.	11:21
mdomsch	it took several hours for us to stop sending users at closed mirrors	11:21
spoleeba	where are we in getting the spin process synced with release are we on track for making progress on that in f11?	11:21
f13	mdomsch: if the mirrors were listening to that bus and caught our 'sync' request, they could have all responded and opened earlier	11:21
mdomsch	f13, ok...	11:21
notting	why does it take so long for them to catch it?	11:21
f13	notting: because Fedora mirroring is pull, vs push	11:21
notting	spoleeba: yeah, spins were an issue. spin maintainers were absent for large portions of the process	11:21
f13	notting: some mirrors likely only sync once a day	11:21
mdomsch	notting, a) they rsync every X hours (x >= 4)	11:22
notting	f13: they can always do it by hand	11:22
mdomsch	notting, not 150 mirrors...	11:22
mdomsch	ok, 190	11:22
f13	notting: that assumes that the mirror admin was A) paying attention, B) awake at the bitflip moment	11:22
mdomsch	f13, could work - need to investigate that; i haven't played with amqp myself yet	11:23
f13	spoleeba: spins are going to be treated as Features for F11, and we've identified some more things we'd like out of spin owners as part of the process.	11:23
f13	mdomsch: just not sure how willing mirror admins would be to running a daemon	11:23
mdomsch	f13, some will	11:23
mdomsch	we didn't think they'd be open to running report_mirror after rsync, but they are	11:23
f13	but amqp is a standard, cross platform/language protocol so it might be easier to catch a wider set of mirrors.	11:23
notting	mdomsch: could we have mm verify the f10 links and only hand out verified urls?	11:24
mdomsch	notting, we do, but it takes 4-6 hours to crawl them all :-(	11:24
f13	maybe a special crawl that just checks if the 11 dir is open or not?	11:24
stickster	f13: notting: mdomsch: Maybe we should get back on the level of Board topics as opposed to implementation details	11:24
f13	stickster: good call.	11:25
mdomsch	agreed	11:25
stickster	I think we definitely have several areas identified where we need to improve process	11:25
mdomsch	stickster, that was just one part of the user experience on release day that could be improved	11:25
mdomsch	spoleeba asked about spins	11:26
stickster	And QA is still the big elephant in the living room -- there are a number of dependencies there we're trying to resolve to make QA processes more open to community contributions	11:26
spoleeba	mdomsch, f13 answered...i jsut want to make sure there's forward progress ready to roll	11:26
stickster	+1	11:26
stickster	OK, let's move on so we can answer some other questions	11:27
stickster	gregdek: f'real this time	11:27
* stickster smacks gavel		11:27
gregdek	nirik asks: Fedora has been working with OLPC, are there any moves to work with other groups that same way?	11:27
stickster	Ah, that's an interesting question	11:28
mdomsch	I know of some targeted user / developer groups under way	11:28
f13	I'm ever trying to bring jpackage closer to the Fedora world.	11:28
mdomsch	ctyler @ seneca of course	11:28
mdomsch	bill cattey @ MIT	11:28
ctyler	Fedora does work with a variety of groups -- upstreams, standards bodies, edu, and so forth -- was there a specific type of group in mind here?	11:28
stickster	We are continuing to pursue collaborative work with ISVs as well.	11:28
mdomsch	and the secondary arch teams	11:29
spoleeba	other groups? similar to OLPC? like derivative distributions or OEMs?	11:29
stickster	The new "Fedora Remix" mark is a sort of outreach, in that it allows groups to leverage the Fedora brand without having to jump through a lot of hoops.	11:30
spoleeba	im personally watching moblin discussions...to see if there is a good entry point in a conversation there...but its not clear... the appliance tools sig/feature stuff we have cooking seems like it would be right up moblin's alley	11:30
stickster	My hope is that some of those groups will be interested in reaching back into Fedora proper for more collaboration, as opposed to just taking the FR mark and runnign with it.	11:30
spoleeba	stickster, any more discussions with opensuse about cross pollinating ideas... like maybe infrastructure featuresets?	11:31
stickster	Smolt has been somewhat of a shim there. openSuSE folks have actually been collaborating with us somewhat on that.	11:32
spoleeba	stickster, their build service is somewhat unique to them...i dont know enough about it to know if thats something we want as a service in our community	11:33
* mdomsch likes the opensuse build service		11:33
stickster	The build service is very interesting. If we could find a way of having it enforce packaging standards for the various communities, that could be a win.	11:33
mdomsch	it's got a lot of nice capabilties	11:33
f13	it does have some nice capabilities, some things that we could add to our build infrastructure	11:34
f13	(like KOPERs)	11:34
stickster	Joe Brockmeier and I talk somewhat regularly	11:34
mdomsch	dashboard of build status for X distros x Y versions x Z arches	11:34
f13	but I honestly feel that we're having a hard enough time providing resources to build our own distro, without providing resources for folks to build for other distros in our buildsystem.	11:35
stickster	I would say lately we've concentrated on enabling our respective dev teams to collaborate on RPM developmen	11:35
stickster	*development	11:35
spoleeba	stickster, is there an opportunity to have some sort of Fedora summit specifically to put reps from different satillete groups together to talk about points of collaboration?	11:35
mdomsch	spoleeba, a bunch of Novell people are in Cambridge, MA near FUDCon11	11:35
stickster	spoleeba: Can you be more specific? I mean, we could do that at FUDCon potentially.	11:36
stickster	Another reason we make it free for everyone to attend.	11:36
mdomsch	we should be sure they're invited and have specific topics to	11:36
mdomsch	collaborate on	11:36
spoleeba	mdomsch, yeah..thats what im talking about.. we have a user and a developer areas...can we develop track or session specifically at external groups focused on roadmapping good collaboration cross projects	11:37
stickster	I think any group in Fedora that's got a potential point of collaboration -- koji/SuSE build svc, etc. should invite groups to do this.	11:37
stickster	Let's recall that the point of FUDCon is not to be driven top-down	11:38
stickster	But bottom-up, as a community eevent.	11:38
stickster	*event.	11:38
stickster	I need a new typist.	11:38
f13	I think I"d rather see more co-development on features, rather than infrastructure	11:38
f13	features that Fedora is planning for F11/F12, if we could get other distros working on them (everything done upstream right?) that just means better features for everybody	11:38
stickster	Infrastructure is an interesting case because it often develops as an expression of how a community works	11:39
stickster	f13: +1 for upstream collaboration.	11:39
stickster	Shall we take another Q?	11:40
spoleeba	stickster, im not saying demand it.. but i dont think we've been thinking along this line for Fudcon..so it may just be a matter of dropping the idea into the collective headspace..and watching who picks it up	11:40
stickster	spoleeba: go forth and conquer my good man	11:40
spoleeba	stickster, i just did	11:41
stickster	Let's take another Q then. gregdek?	11:41
gregdek	jimcd asks: Do we expect a major impact from the multihead feature?	11:41
stickster	Ooo, this seems like a ctyler question to me :-)	11:41
ctyler	Well, in many areas no, but in some places (edu in South America as one example), yes	11:42
stickster	In the bigger picture, features have differing levels of impact	11:42
ctyler	I think that it's a feature that a lot of people might have interest in if they caught a glimpse of the possibility	11:42
ctyler	In that big picture, it's a demonstration of Fedora's flexibility	11:43
stickster	right on, ctyler.	11:43
ctyler	... and the power of open source and remixing existing pieces of software.	11:43
spoleeba	ctyler, this sort of think is somewhat cyclical...its like a fashion trend... multihead or multiseat..every couple of year's one or the other is out of style..multihead is the new pink	11:44
stickster	I actually had two people approach me at Ohio LinuxFest specifically about multihead and what we were doing to further it in the community distro space.	11:44
stickster	Two may not seem like a lot, but you have to sum that over the whole population of users/contributors.	11:44
ctyler	My multiseat page is quite out of date, and gets 10K+ hits/month	11:45
f13	stickster: two sounds like a lot if we're talking about ppc users (:	11:45
stickster	I think one of the things that falls out of multihead is finding chinks in our other subsystems, like places where PolicyKit isn't providing the right coverage, or SELinux, or...	11:45
spoleeba	ctyler, just as long as i can get Fedora running multihead on my Nokia 810 in a year...i'll be happy	11:46
stickster	So a side effect could be that you make the experience better for people who do a lot of remote system help or admin.	11:46
* notting wonders if we're conflating multihead (dual display) with multiseat (separate multiple display/input device)		11:46
stickster	notting: mayhap.	11:46
* ctyler thinks multiseat was the intended question, since it's on the feature list		11:46
ctyler	q++ ?	11:47
stickster	ctyler: +1	11:47
stickster	gregdek: take it away	11:47
gregdek	Since we've got mostly fun questions...	11:47
gregdek	...I figure I'll interject one more real question.	11:47
gregdek	Anonymous Coward asks: Where does Fedora as a project need to improve the most from the community perspective?	11:48
h\h	grow	11:48
stickster	h\h: You mean just have more people?	11:49
f13	Finding better ways to harness the community we do have, while not alienating them.	11:49
f13	or rather	11:49
* stickster notes that our account holder numbers, a fairly worthless raw statistic, has jumped from <2K to >17K in 8 months.		11:49
h\h	as a whole.. more awareness	11:49
spoleeba	specifically... more people..doing QA	11:49
f13	Finding better ways to harness the community that is coming to us, while not alienating the existing community.	11:49
notting	growing active contributors, yes. would be interesting to see stats of FAS growth, vs. FAS growth of particular groups, to FAS growth of 'active' committers to various subprojects	11:49
spoleeba	notting, how do we define active?	11:50
ctyler	Continue to move people up gdk's "Community Pyramid". For example, there is a lot of chatter about people's F10 experiences in fedora-list (etc) -- we need to move people from talking about the challenges they're facing on the mailing lists to filing bugs, and participating in resolving them.	11:50
notting	for example, tracking the fudcon registrees *and walkups*, and seeing whether they're in FAS three months later, if they joined more groups, etc.	11:50
spoleeba	notting, i keep stumbling on that...we dont have a consistent way to measure activity across different ways to contribute	11:50
* gregdek needs to document that community pyramid. Maybe a blog.		11:51
spoleeba	notting, if we could for example track a FAS login via Openid any time someone touch bugzilla or the wiki or cvs..and we could track that as activity..we'd have something to measure	11:51
stickster	ctyler: Speaking of which, there's been a fairly decent uptick on fedora-test-list, for better or worse -- some of it happened in the couple of weeks before F10 GA. If we could move that horizon back a few months, we'd really have something special going. ;-)	11:51
ctyler	excellent!	11:52
gregdek	stickster: How much of that was atttibutable to OLPC testing, d'you think?	11:52
stickster	gregdek: I'd be hard pressed to say.	11:53
gregdek	ok.	11:53
stickster	I think OLPC was a substantial minority.	11:53
stickster	spoleeba: I think we could track those things.	11:53
spoleeba	stickster, i would love it.... something we can define as activity	11:54
stickster	The BZ email == FAS email and is tied to SCM through the FAS login name.	11:54
spoleeba	stickster, so I can really start to hammer on the question of how sticky our communiity is for new FAS account holders	11:54
stickster	We may miss things done through outside accounts, but that doesn't invalidate the whole idea.	11:54
spoleeba	stickster, if i could watch FAS login logs..and do some analysis..i can give you some trending on what 'activity' looks like across the entire fas account space	11:55
stickster	I would like to see Fedora do a better job overall of hooking people up with meaningful, small tasks, and provide them the support they need to do those tasks.	11:56
spoleeba	stickster, that statement goes right into the stuff ive been talking to luke about	11:56
f13	I think we've had this discussion before, about tracking user activity, and that got mired into privacy issues	11:57
ctyler	The challenge, of course, is that support to do a small task can be equal to or greater than doing the task itself -- but pays of better in the long run.	11:57
stickster	We need to get more of the Fedora principals in Red Hat into a situation like Mike McGrath is building with Infrastructure	11:57
spoleeba	stickster, and what ive been blogging about	11:57
stickster	ctyler: Exactly.	11:57
stickster	If I look at my job as making widgets, I will never succeed at building that part of the community.	11:57
stickster	It has to be about providing easy ways for other people to collaborate in widget-building	11:58
stickster	And the support structures they need to do so	11:58
* stickster shuts up now		11:58
stickster	gregdek: Another question?	11:59
stickster	A serious one? :-)	11:59
gregdek	mmcgrath asks: what's stickster's favorite flavor of ice cream?	11:59
stickster	Oh lord	11:59
gregdek	I don't think we have any more serious questions queued up. Sorry.	11:59
ctyler	perfect timing!	12:00
stickster	either Chunky Monkey, or I'm feeling more virtuous, Breyer's strawberry fro-yo (discontinued, sadly)	12:00
stickster	s/or/or if/	12:00
gregdek	inode0 asks: Since FUDcon11 was planned in an insensitive way with respect to college football fans, is there a planned BCS championship get-together in the works?	12:00
f13	stickster: not Crow?	12:00
mdomsch	chubby hubby	12:00
gregdek	mdomsch: No one asked you.  ;)	12:00
spoleeba	my favorite is moose	12:01
stickster	f13: I never eat crow, I always just claim later the good ideas were mine.	12:01
gregdek	stickster learned that from me.	12:01
stickster	And I thank you every day for it.	12:01
gregdek	;)	12:01
stickster	gregdek: Thanks!	12:01
notting	gregdek: oh geez. what's the overlap there?	12:01
gregdek	National Championship game is the 10th, I expect.	12:01
stickster	Two words for college football fans: Sports. Bars.	12:02
stickster	:-D	12:02
notting	gregdek: thursday night. pre-fudcon.	12:02
stickster	heh	12:02
gregdek	Oh, really?	12:02
gregdek	NO PLAYOFF, NO PEACE.	12:02
stickster	I can see we're in danger of seriously running off the rails now :-)	12:03
stickster	Motion to adjourn?	12:03
ctyler	+1	12:03
f13	+1	12:03
mdomsch	+1	12:03
notting	+1	12:03
* stickster bangs gavel		12:04
stickster	And a post-meeting note to Board and community members alike -- thank you all for a brilliant Fedora 10 and the work you put into it.	12:04
stickster	This is truly an outstanding release!	12:05
* stickster packs up gavel and goes back to work		12:06

#feodora-board-public

stickster	Welcome to the Board public meeting everyone.	11:00
f13	inode0: what the smell? Did gregdek join #rhel recently?	11:01
stickster	We may have one agenda item to cover first, followed by your Q&A.	11:01
nirik	ok, since no one else is asking: What does the board think went right, and what lessons can we learn from f10?	11:01
jjmcd	goos q, nirik	11:01
jjmcd	s/goos/good	11:01
jjmcd	better quit trying to type	11:01
Cancel	nirik bring back the old pretty guified boot	11:01
mmcgrath	wee	11:02
Cancel	that little bar on the bottom heck what do the white, blue, and light blue even mean?	11:02
jjmcd	Cancel: you dont like the solar flares?	11:02
Cancel	oooh that's what those are?	11:02
f13	jjmcd: Cancel probably can't see the flares, due to his video card not supporting kernel mode setting	11:02
f13	jjmcd: only a small set of video cards support it	11:02
nirik	only some ati cards currently.	11:03
jjmcd	ahhhh ... I got an old ATI so I figgered everyone else was worse off than me!	11:03
Cancel	a boot screen with information would be nice, and by default	11:03
nirik	Cancel: you can remove the 'quiet rhgb' from your kernel line and get all the spew back if you want it.	11:03
Cancel	I said by default ;)	11:04
nirik	most people really don't want a spew of text.	11:04
Cancel	the making it quiet is what should take my editing, just my two cents	11:04
Cancel	nirik: what would be your answer to the question you posed?	11:05
jjmcd	But if you had the grody text you couldn't see the comet plummeting into the sun by default	11:05
nirik	Cancel: wait and watch the #fedora-board-meeting channel for the boards answer	11:05
f13	the text is geek porn, and geeks can enable it if they want.	11:07
gregdek	Any other questions, feel free to queue them up.	11:07
Cancel	well it was always there before without having to do anything specifically to enable it was my point	11:08
gregdek	This will be a short meeting if you guys don't come up with some awesome, hard hitting questions.	11:10
Cancel	overall though I'm as happy as I'm going to be	11:10
gregdek	This is your opportunity to shame and embarrass the board publicly. Don't miss out!	11:10
nirik	how about: Fedora has been working with OLPC, are there any moves to work with other groups that same way?	11:11
f13	Cancel: right, we're improving upon the past, where the text was noisy, ugly to many people, and really served no purpose to a vast majority of our users.	11:11
Cancel	if you say so ;)	11:12
inode0	and this way most people miss the 10 second delay notice ...	11:12
jjmcd	Do we expect a major impact from the multihead feature?	11:17
inode0	mdomsch: F10 runs very nice on the mini9 btw	11:19
mmcgrath	mdomsch: on that. Should we flip the bit earlier or are we thinking about doing a push like debian?	11:21
mdomsch	mmcgrath, I'm open to ideas	11:23
mmcgrath	mdomsch: I think it'd be worth examining debians setup. If it works and is proven. I see no reason not to do it. Many of our mirrors may already have the setup ready, just need a key or something from us.	11:24
* nirik didn't have anything specific in mind, just wanted to know if we were reaching out to other groups like that and if there were any notable ones on the horizon.		11:30
mmcgrath	stickster: yes they have.	11:32
mmcgrath	spoleeba: I think that service is unique to them. We have a hard enough time getting our epel builds in koji (going on over a year now) much less getting support for debs and things.	11:34
mmcgrath	all to just duplicate service? I'd say thats an area we could go to them and say "how could we help with this" instead of ask ourselves "how can we duplicate it"	11:34
f13	I agree with mmcgrath	11:37
f13	it'd be interesting to know if we can do anything to make it easier for them to handle Fedora builds, I see that as useful work.	11:37
f13	duplicating what they have isn't so useful.	11:37
mmcgrath	f13: I'm talking to some of those guys now, it sounds like for EVERYTHING they build, opensuse and all the other stuff. The total storage comes to less then 2T.	11:38
f13	they obviously purge aggressively?	11:39
mmcgrath	I don't know.	11:40
mmcgrath	They did mention they save a lot of space with..	11:40
mmcgrath	"the source is stored in a kind of version mgmt system which saves us a bit space"	11:40
mmcgrath	I'm not sure the details of that.	11:40
gregdek	No more questions in the queue. If you have one, hit me.	11:41
mmcgrath	gregdek: what's stickster's favorite flavor of ice cream?	11:42
jjmcd	I was thinking more the other way, difficulty in implementatiopn	11:43
jjmcd	I see hints of knotty problems, but not enough knowledge to know whether they are real	11:44
inode0	Since FUDcon11 was planned in an insensitive way with respect to college football fans, is there a planned BCS championship get-together in the works?	11:44
rdieter	lol	11:44
gregdek	inode0: What do you care? Did Iowa State make the Rose Bowl, and I missed it somehow?	11:45
inode0	I don't care about them :)	11:45
gregdek	LOL	11:45
f13	inode0: well, it is Boston, and there are such things as sports bars. I find it rather difficult to fathom that there wouldn't be bars playing the game	11:45
jjmcd	yes, or dbus or gconf	11:45
mmcgrath	f13: FYI, looks like for the public builds OBS only keeps the most recent version of a build.	11:46
gregdek	f13: It's Cambridge, you insensitive clod.	11:46
gregdek	These people don't know their heads from their seats!	11:47
f13	ok, fine, it's 5 minutes away from Boston	11:47
inode0	and since I don't think umass made it either maybe they won't bother :)	11:47
jjmcd	easy one gregdek: dox	11:48
gregdek	w00t	12:05
stickster	gregdek: Thank you sir	12:07

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