Meeting:Docs IRC log 20090520

Sparks	<meeting id="Docs">	20:00
-!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Meeting - Agenda: Docs_Project_meetings		20:00
Sparks	Roll call...	20:00
* Sparks is here		20:00
* ke4qqq is here		20:00
* sk0rd is here		20:01
* jjmcd is somewhere		20:01
* rudi is here		20:02
* laubersm is here		20:02
* Sparks gives a few more minutes for everyone to show up		20:03
* laubersm goes to get a drink - brb		20:03
ianweller	if you need me, ping me, i'll be distracted mostly	20:03
Sparks	ianweller: We need you	20:03
ianweller	*thud*	20:03
Sparks	Okay... let's get started.	20:05
laubersm	mmmm	20:05
Sparks	ke4qqq: Can you handle the log for tonight?	20:05
ke4qqq	sure	20:05
Sparks	ke4qqq: Thanks	20:05
-!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Meeting - Release Announcement		20:05
Sparks	Okay... This has been moved up to high priority.	20:06
* ianweller removes that pot from the back burner		20:06
Sparks	Release_Announcement_for_F11	20:06
Sparks	I had writer's block over the weekend and I won't be around this weekend.	20:06
Sparks	Since the release has been pushed back by a week we have a little breathing room...	20:07
SgtDitt	here	20:07
Sparks	however we need to get this done ASAP so the translators can get on it.	20:07
Sparks	Who can write up a draft that we can look at?	20:07
Sparks	Don't everyone volunteer at once, now... I'd hate to crash the IRC network	20:08
Sparks	ianweller: Do you have some time to write an opening paragraph for the announcement?	20:09
rudi	Sparks - I can do it, but it will be a few days before I get to it.	20:09
ianweller	Sparks: "We're awesome."	20:09
rudi	(over the weekend0	20:09
ianweller	Sparks: but in all seriousness i could come up withs omething and get it to the list tonight	20:09
Sparks	rudi: Okay. The schedule says that we were supposed to begin this today and have it done by Friday... that was before the push	20:09
Sparks	ianweller: put it on the wiki... that way it's already there	20:10
ianweller	well, yeah. ping the list that i actually did it too	20:10
Sparks	yeah	20:10
ianweller	that was what i meant to say :P	20:10
Sparks	:)	20:10
Sparks	Cool	20:10
Sparks	ianweller: rudi: thanks!	20:10
sk0rd	I'll shoot for a draft on the page as well	20:11
ianweller	so the rel announcement is gonna be i18n'd?	20:11
Sparks	How is this presented to the "customers"?	20:11
Sparks	ianweller: Supposedly	20:11
Sparks	ianweller: which is confusing me because I'm not sure how it's being propagated	20:11
ianweller	Sparks: mailing list usually	20:12
Sparks	Maybe we can get that answer when stickster_afk shows up.	20:12
Sparks	ianweller: Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Maybe I misread the schedule	20:12
laubersm	I think we are reposonsible for an English annoucement for emails. But a lot of locations like to translate and tweak it for their regions	20:13
laubersm	I do not think it has ever been a tranfix thing	20:13
Sparks	I'm good with that.	20:13
laubersm	but that may of changed...	20:13
jjmcd	The instructions say to keep that in mind	20:13
ianweller	yeah so write it as if it were to be translated	20:13
Sparks	So should they be put somewhere and "translated" into XML?	20:13
jjmcd	Some translated literally, other parts may be radically revised in translation	20:14
jjmcd	I don't think so. Sounds like most will be rewritten for the target geography	20:14
laubersm	Sparks, I do think we have in the past but we'll have to check with our elders (quaid, stickster_afk )	20:14
laubersm	opp	20:14
laubersm	do NOT think we have	20:14
Sparks	laubersm: Yeah, where are those old people?	20:15
Sparks	Okay... looks like we have this moving	20:16
Sparks	I appreciate it.	20:16
laubersm	"Turn up the volume (if you can), select a mode for video - the Lion roars as Fedora 11 arrives"	20:16
laubersm	too snarky ?	20:16
Sparks	Nope	20:16
Sparks	:)	20:16
Sparks	Okay, we'll talk about this more after the meeting...	20:17
Sparks	any questions?	20:17
* jjmcd will be sure to be around to make jabs at ianweller		20:17
Sparks	jjmcd: Much appreciated	20:17
Sparks	Okay... moving on...	20:17
-!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Meeting - Status on Release Notes <-- ryanlerch & jjmcd		20:17
Sparks	How are them there Release Notes coming?	20:17
* jjmcd hasn't caught up on all the cool stuff laubersm, rudi, zoglesby, etc. did while he was playing at Dayton		20:18
laubersm	jjmcd, yeah about that....	20:18
Sparks	jjmcd: Oh there were many things that happened while you were away	20:18
laubersm	I think rudi was on top of adding the last minutes items and getting a new pot	20:19
rudi	Yep all done.	20:19
laubersm	I assume everything else just goes on the wiki	20:19
jjmcd	We do a 0-day RPM	20:19
rudi	There were a couple of bugs filed overnight about Section IDs and re-adding the Common Bugs section from F10	20:20
jjmcd	Yeah, I saw that	20:20
rudi	I've confirmed that we could do this with practically no impact to L10N	20:20
laubersm	jjmcd, from what is being translated now? or are we pushing one more pot too?	20:20
Sparks	I've noted a few messages on the list talking about updates	20:20
jjmcd	If nobody else is making a bunch of changes I can go ahead and add the id's	20:20
jjmcd	We are scheduled to push a pot immediately after release	20:21
jjmcd	seemd weird but	20:21
laubersm	jjmcd, I think that one is to then update docs.fp.o	20:21
rudi	jjmcd I've got them done and ready to push...	20:21
jjmcd	yes, i think that is correct	20:21
laubersm	no more rpms after GA - though we could push one through updates if we wanted	20:21
jjmcd	cool	20:21
* quaid is able to be here now for a short bit		20:22
rudi	There was also a request to add a note about libguestfs, but I think this is way too late now, yes?	20:22
* jjmcd is doing some reports for MSP, not going well, Eric's writer's block is catching		20:22
laubersm	if anything else comes in before we build the ga rpm - then it sounds like we can add a link to the wiki info without bothering the translators	20:23
laubersm	is that true?	20:23
quaid	translators? for release announcement?	20:23
* quaid is confused now		20:23
jjmcd	We did get a week push back	20:23
laubersm	then it is "in" the rpm for those looking there to know there is more info "somewhere"	20:23
jjmcd	quaid: previous topic	20:24
sk0rd	can someone speak more to the push back? docs is my only insight as to what's going on	20:24
quaid	jjmcd: we need to revisit when we get a chance, there is a misconception underway	20:24
ke4qqq	sk0rd: we'll talk in #f-d	20:24
quaid	sk0rd: release engineering in yesterday's meetings declared a week slip in the schedule	20:24
Sparks	quaid: I must have misread the schedule. There isn't anything about translating the annoucement on there now	20:24
quaid	Sparks: can I speak on that now? or wait until a topic change soonest?	20:25
Sparks	quaid: Go for it	20:25
quaid	ok, I've tried to make this clear on some wiki page that I can't find right now :)	20:25
quaid	there are two deliverables --	20:25
jjmcd	/Releases/Announcements	20:25
quaid	1. A set of clear top-five talking points for _others_ to use when constructing their own, native language, locale-specific (humor, no humor, etc.) release announcement	20:26
quaid	2. A whimsical, English-only release announcement that i) uses those same talking points (functionally similar to locally written announcements), but ii) is not for	20:26
l10n itself because of idiomatic/culture specific content
quaid	it is the latter that is the main need from Docs	20:27
quaid	the former is more handled by Marketing, but $someone needs to tell f-amb-l and f-trans-l	20:27
quaid	that the points are ready for them to use for their own locale-specific write-up.	20:27
quaid	<eof>	20:27
jjmcd	OK, that was mostly my understanding except it wasn't clear that Marketing was handling the former, Docs the latter, nor was the top-five clear	20:28
jjmcd	Releases/Announcements makes it sound like some undefined body	20:29
quaid	well, to be honest, I'm not clear if Marketing has that former task on their schedule	20:29
laubersm	that is even easier than what I said - I thought 1 came more from 2 ... but that it was still just a write up (no xml or tx from docs).	20:29
quaid	I sort-of dropped that ball this release, since I've been the main driver on that for the last several	20:29
quaid	laubersm: it's also honestly fun -- you should do it!	20:29
laubersm	"Turn up the volume (if you can), select a mode for video - the Lion roars as Fedora 11 arrives"	20:29
laubersm	that was my attempt :)	20:29
quaid	heh	20:30
laubersm	seems a bit snarky even for the english version	20:30
laubersm	:)	20:30
jjmcd	laubersm, seems to me Fedora's image is a little "corporate", snarky might be good	20:30
quaid	Release_announcement_template	20:30
quaid	Release_announcements	20:31
quaid	there we go!	20:31
sk0rd	the l10n reference is a bit obscure. With the art team working on grecian references, why not duplicate the theme	20:31
quaid	that has a link to all previous whimsical announcements	20:31
* laubersm notes it is only in a Marketing Category - no wonder we we didn't have it here in docs...		20:31
quaid	there is no pattern on theme duplication or ref. to release name, although that is a popular theme.	20:31
* laubersm logs into wiki...		20:32
quaid	um, Release_announcements is in [[Category:Docs Project]]	20:32
laubersm	the template is not	20:33
laubersm	or WAS not	20:33
laubersm	:)	20:33
* laubersm also moved the [[Category: to the bottom where it belongs		20:33
Sparks	laubersm: ianweller will thank you	20:33
laubersm	:)	20:34
jjmcd	hmmmm, reading the F10 announcement, I hope there was an en-GB version	20:34
Sparks	?	20:35
jjmcd	might work for nl, or even en-AU, but not the straight laced Brits	20:35
* ianweller thanks laubersm		20:35
Sparks	laubersm: See, I told you	20:35
quaid	one other point, not sure if it is on that page ...	20:37
quaid	but the whimsical announcement must be approved by the sitting FPL, in this case, stickster_afk	20:37
quaid	just give him ~24 hours heads up	20:37
jjmcd	most of us would value his counsel anyway	20:37
Sparks	most of us wonder why he bails on us these days	20:38
jjmcd	Probably he has more to do than just chill on IRC, just guessing	20:38
jjmcd	Isn't he about to head to Romania?	20:38
Sparks	Probably	20:39
Sparks	I don't know... haven't heard anything about Romania	20:39
sk0rd	ok, next topic?	20:39
sk0rd	;)	20:39
Sparks	Okay.. anything else on the announcement?	20:39
* quaid is done and has to vaporize now		20:39
jjmcd	I thought I heard he was speaking in Bucharest this weekend	20:39
Sparks	wow	20:39
Sparks	Okay... anything else on the RNs?	20:40
-!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Meeting - Review http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-11/f-11-docs-tasks.html schedule		20:40
jjmcd	</rn>	20:40
rudi	Just confirmation that we agree that libguestfs is too late?	20:40
Sparks	too late for zero-day?	20:41
rudi	Yeah	20:41
jjmcd	The schedule saysfinal snapshot today and release pushed back a week, so I would say no, not too late	20:41
Sparks	yeah, I think we should take advantage of the push	20:41
rudi	OK - but I guess we should get confirmation that L10N is happy with that...	20:41
jjmcd	I agree	20:42
rudi	OK - I'll ask :)	20:42
jjmcd	today = today zulu time	20:42
rudi	Doesn't that mean that the translations would need to be completed by today?	20:43
Sparks	how many changes need to be fixed?	20:44
jjmcd	It says build rpm 5/25	20:44
jjmcd	Seems like there has been a flood of bugs today	20:44
rudi	Sparks - the section IDs (fixed), the Common Bugs section (fixed, but one problem), and the request to add libguestfs to the RN	20:45
Sparks	so... five lines?	20:45
rudi	Checking...	20:46
rudi	Yep	20:46
Sparks	cool	20:47
Sparks	that shouldn't be too bad to "repair'	20:47
rudi	There are also requests for documentation of two bugs, one in anaconda and one in libfprint, but I think they can go on the Common bugs page on the wiki, yes?	20:48
Sparks	I would think so	20:48
Sparks	Anything else?	20:50
rudi	Not that I'm aware of	20:50
-!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Meeting - Guides		20:50
Sparks	Okay, due to the hour I'm not going to go through all the guides	20:50
Sparks	does anyone need anything for their guides or is anyone having any problems?	20:51
* ke4qqq needs more time		20:51
Sparks	for the IG?	20:51
ke4qqq	but thankfully rudi is doing a great job of keep things moving	20:51
Sparks	You have a week more!	20:51
ke4qqq	lol wow - granted my wish :)	20:52
rudi	ke4qqq - what needs doing?	20:52
ke4qqq	rudi: I was talking about I need more time - as far as I know the IG is in good shape, we probably need to get the final release ready (get rid of draft tag) but we	20:52
can talk in a bit and not hold up the meeting
rudi	OK - yep :)	20:53
-!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Meeting - Open Floor		20:54
Sparks	Okay, anyone have anything they want to discuss?	20:54
rudi	Translators have noticed a couple of glitches in the big, merged PO files for both the IG and UG, but I've suggested we wait until Transifex 0.6 is available rather than	20:54
do anything about these now
ke4qqq	Me!	20:54
jjmcd	Do I gather we have agreement on everything in Publican for 12?:	20:54
sk0rd	I did, heck if I can remember.	20:54
ke4qqq	FAD_SELF <--- Docs FAD	20:54
laubersm	jjmcd, I agree - but can we have less than everything ?	20:54
Sparks	jjmcd: Not yet	20:55
sk0rd	ah, new contributors, hand raised when ready.	20:55
Sparks	jjmcd: I'd like to have a free minute or two to really think about it. I didn't see anything objectionable, though	20:55
Sparks	ke4qqq: Okay... go with your shameless plug	20:55
ke4qqq	honestly I think we are in a poor place to make that decision jjmcd - immediately before release - extremely busy with all of that - might make for less than reasoned	20:56
look.
ke4qqq	We have a docs fad at the above link	20:56
ke4qqq	you should all attend	20:56
ke4qqq	(And SELF the day before)	20:56
ke4qqq	ianweller is going to teach packaging	20:56
Sparks	ke4qqq: That's all you got?	20:56
jjmcd	ke4qqq, I can buy that. I was just hoping to check one more thing off the list :-)	20:56
ke4qqq	and hopefully we can hash this out.	20:56
* Sparks is still contemplating on how to get down there		20:56
ke4qqq	that is it from me	20:56
Sparks	ke4qqq: how many Fedora hams are going to be there?	20:57
Sparks	ke4qqq: Maybe a designated simplex freq?	20:57
* laubersm prods Sparks to get to the "new contributor" before time runs out		20:57
ke4qqq	2 that I know of.	20:57
Sparks	ke4qqq: ok	20:57
ke4qqq	I'll add that	20:57
Sparks	sk0rd: Go ahead!	20:57
sk0rd	I've been really happy with the time that people have spent with me, but I've noticed quite a few introductions and whatnot through the mailing list	20:58
* jjmcd has been emailing applicants to get intros		20:58
sk0rd	as far as getting people involved, does anyone have any thoughts on improving the documentation on... joining documentation and getting started?	20:58
Sparks	sk0rd: We need to get on that as well. This is just a really "bad" time to join as we are rushing to get everything finished for the release	20:59
laubersm	I think a lot of us have ideas but no one has settled down enough to get it done.	20:59
laubersm	sk0rd, I came in about this time one release ago to the same issues	20:59
Sparks	but we should make it a priority to be better with being able to get new members on track early	20:59
sk0rd	Sparks, it is so for senior contributors yes	20:59
jjmcd	Sparks, gotta strike while the iron is hot, tho	21:00
Sparks	Oh, I agree!	21:00
sk0rd	perhaps I'll try and hit on it	21:00
Sparks	There will be changes for F12.	21:00
sk0rd	</comment>	21:00
laubersm	sk0rd, no - any one - if there is something that wasn't clear to you before and somehow is now - please jump in and expand in the join docs!	21:00
laubersm	I and others have been prodding quaid and stickster_afk to go through and "fix up" the pages too	21:01
laubersm	with their years of wisdom	21:01
ianweller	ke4qqq: oh i am teaching packaging? interesting.	21:01
Sparks	ianweller: You are now	21:01
ke4qqq	by fiat	21:01
jjmcd	you are our leading expert	21:01
ke4qqq	:)	21:01
laubersm	ianweller, the CMS is to be all packaged before you can sleep	21:01
laubersm	the more people you teach, the more likely you will get to sleep	21:02
* laubersm says knowing she will not be able to be there		21:02
ianweller	looks like i'm getting no sleep	21:02
ke4qqq	ianweller: I tried to get jds2001, but looks like he is unavailable	21:02
ianweller	ke4qqq: oic.	21:02
ke4qqq	and then Max said sending you was 'the right thing to do'	21:02
ke4qqq	:)	21:02
ianweller	i saw that	21:03
jjmcd	THat way you'll be all practiced up to teach at FUDcon	21:04
Sparks	Okay, anything else?	21:05
Sparks	I'd like to mention that I'll be helping my wife move for the summer (summer internship) beginning tomorrow and I won't be back until Monday. I won't have Internet	21:07
access during this time so I'm turning over the conn to jjmcd for the weekend.
laubersm	excellent!	21:07
* jjmcd will be around		21:07
Sparks	Okay, anything else?	21:08
jjmcd	Sparks, Does that mean you will be batching it for the summer?	21:08
Sparks	jjmcd: pretty much	21:08
Sparks	pizza and soda all summer long	21:08
jjmcd	Ooooh, bad. Gotta fend for yourself	21:08
* jjmcd suspects Sparks needs time in .de to learn things that go better with pizza		21:09
Sparks	I have some projects to work on over the summer... maybe that will keep me out of trouble.	21:09
* Sparks is too poor to go to .de...		21:09
Sparks	okay, anything else?	21:09
Sparks	5	21:09
Sparks	4	21:09
Sparks	3	21:10
Sparks	2	21:10
Sparks	1	21:10
Sparks	</meeting>	21:10