Meeting:Docs IRC log 20090806

Sparks	#startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings	00:01
Sparks	#topic Roll Call	00:01
* Sparks		00:01
* danielsmw is here.		00:01
* itbegins is here		00:01
jjmcd	hier ben ik	00:01
* ianweller		00:01
* rudi is here		00:01
ianweller	quaid: over here, not #fedora-meeting-1 ;)	00:02
quaid	heh, like I can tell the difference in irssi	00:03
* quaid is here, too		00:03
itbegins	ping me if you need me for a topic I can help with (i.e. the CMS)	00:03
* ianweller assigns itbegins to something non-CMS related ;)		00:04
Sparks	itbegins: Oh we'll be talking CMS tonight	00:04
itbegins	ianweller, I wouldn't do that if you want it to get done	00:04
ianweller	hehe	00:04
itbegins	Last week's work hours: 7.30-19.00, 7.30-18.30, 8.00-22.30, 8.00-22.30, 8.00-18.00	00:05
itbegins	anyway, I'm polluting the meeting log...	00:05
quaid	what? you took the weekend OFF?	00:06
* quaid *cough* slacker *cough* ;-D		00:06
Sparks	Okay, let's get started...	00:06
itbegins	quaid, no weekend working for the time being. I get that off to explore Manhattan	00:06
Sparks	#topic Last week's action items	00:06
Sparks	Sparks to follow up with Pascal Calarco from News to make sure we are including all packages necessary for Zikula for them.	00:06
Sparks	#action Sparks to follow up with Pascal Calarco from News to make sure we are including all packages necessary for Zikula for them. -- Second Alarm	00:06
Sparks	Yeah, I didn't get that done.	00:07
Sparks	Sparks to write rollout plan for license change... 2nd alarm	00:07
Sparks	done	00:07
Sparks	#link License_changeover_schedule	00:07
Sparks	We'll come back to this one a little later.	00:07
Sparks	rudi to help sparks on changing the fedora-brand in Publican for CC license	00:07
Sparks	#action rudi to help sparks on changing the fedora-brand in Publican for CC license -- Second Alarm	00:08
rudi	Well, I've got a sample in place here:	00:08
rudi	http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/license/	00:08
Sparks	rudi: We'll come back to this one but I think you are on the right track.	00:08
Sparks	rudi: Cool. We'll hit that one in a few when we get to the license discussion.	00:08
rudi	Now including attribution information after discussions on the list yesterday	00:08
rudi	KK	00:08
Sparks	Sparks to package the three GPL editors for Zikula	00:09
Sparks	#action Sparks to package the three GPL editors for Zikula -- Second Alarm	00:09
Sparks	Stickster to blog to see if we can get some PHP/JS folks to help with out with some Zikula modules.	00:09
Sparks	stickster_afk isn't here but I think this was done.	00:09
danielsmw	It was; I saw it.	00:09
Sparks	Cool	00:09
Sparks	Sparks to put a note on the list about Shared Open-Source Style Guide	00:09
itbegins	I am sort of working on this as well	00:09
itbegins	from the Zikula community side	00:10
Sparks	itbegins: cool	00:10
itbegins	I've been contacted by stickster_afk, I just have to write an article on the Zikula site. Likelihood of serious replies is limited, but i'll give it a go	00:10
Sparks	Does anyone want to handle the Shared Open-Source Style Guide stuff? I just haven't had time to read up on it all and write about it.	00:10
Sparks	#action Sparks to put a note on the list about Shared Open-Source Style Guide	00:11
Sparks	Sparks to create BZ component Deployment Guide	00:11
Sparks	Yeah, I failed on this one too...	00:12
* rudi will take it but is time poor right now		00:12
Sparks	rudi: The Open-Source guide?	00:12
Sparks	rudi: or the BZ component	00:12
rudi	Sparks -- the OS guide	00:12
Sparks	#action rudi to put a note on the list about Shared Open-Source Style Guide	00:13
Sparks	rudi: Thank you	00:13
Sparks	I'll get on the BZ component tonight.	00:13
Sparks	#action Sparks to create BZ component Deployment Guide --Second alarm	00:13
quaid	Sparks: I'd like to help move the shared style guide stuff along, yeah	00:13
Sparks	Excellent	00:13
Sparks	quaid: ke4qqq was going to work on it but he's gotten real busy lately for known reasons...	00:14
Sparks	and I think the more people that get on that project the better	00:14
quaid	yeah, coordinate on list, sounds fine	00:14
Sparks	cool	00:14
Sparks	Sparks to write up CVE checking/validation procedures in the wiki	00:14
Sparks	This is inprogress.	00:15
Sparks	#action Sparks to write up CVE checking/validation procedures in the wiki --second alarm	00:15
Sparks	Okay, that's all from last week. Anyone have any other "old business"?	00:15
Sparks	#topic Status on CMS (Zikula) <-- ke4qqq	00:16
Sparks	Well, ke4qqq isn't here with us tonight...	00:16
Sparks	but we had a meeting earlier today and got a few more items straight.	00:16
Sparks	J5 joined us today and will be working on some of the javascript problems we are having	00:17
Sparks	so hopefully all that will be squared away soon.	00:17
Sparks	I got volunteered to rebuild the Zikula instance on PT15 so that will either happen later tonight or tomorrow.	00:18
Sparks	Does anyone have anything questions or ideas?	00:18
itbegins	Sparks, do you know what to install etc?	00:19
Sparks	itbegins: I'll be installing all the packages we have in the repo.	00:19
itbegins	Sparks, ok, then run install.php	00:19
Sparks	Cool, thanks.	00:19
itbegins	Sparks, you'll need a database ready	00:19
Sparks	ya	00:19
itbegins	in fact, it would be best if you didn't install from scratch and just pointed the new files to the old DB	00:20
itbegins	due to the amount of setup work I did	00:20
Sparks	I could do that, too.	00:20
itbegins	though it can be replicated with a bit of work	00:20
Sparks	I don't plan on wipeing that out.	00:20
itbegins	if you want to do that, save /config/config.php from the old system	00:20
itbegins	I assume it will be puppetized anyway	00:20
Sparks	eventually, yes.	00:20
Sparks	This is a preparation to puppetizing everything.	00:21
itbegins	THere's also FASAuth (the FAS login module) and the theme	00:21
itbegins	I sent the source to ke4qqq previously	00:21
ricky	Is the FAS module in git somewhere or anything like that?	00:21
Sparks	I don't think those have been packaged.	00:21
Sparks	But we need to get those in the repo asap.	00:21
ricky	We can get it in the fedora-infrastructure git repo if you'd like	00:21
ricky	Ah, they'll be RPMs - that's fine too :-)	00:21
Sparks	ricky: Yeah, everything will be RPMed for ease of use	00:22
ricky	Cool, we like RPMs :-)	00:22
Sparks	Okay, anything else?	00:23
itbegins	That's it from my side	00:24
Sparks	#topic Status on CC license rollout.\	00:24
Sparks	#link License_changeover_schedule	00:24
quaid	a short bit ago I updated one of the tasks as completed	00:25
Sparks	Okay, I created the above schedule. I'd appreciate feedback.	00:25
itbegins	If there are no objects I will head off, haven't eaten yet...	00:25
Sparks	rudi: Let's talk about your page you made.	00:25
* ianweller will work tomorrow on a draft announcement		00:25
ianweller	#action ianweller to do something useful and write a draft announcement	00:26
ianweller	;)	00:26
Sparks	ianweller: Thank you	00:26
Sparks	rudi: So do we need to have an attribute statement?	00:26
rudi	As I understand it, no we don't strictly need to.	00:27
Sparks	Do we want an attribute statement?	00:27
rudi	I'm in two minds about it.	00:27
quaid	#link http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/license/	00:28
rudi	It increases transparency about how to re-use the material	00:28
rudi	But I can imagine that it would also discourage reuse	00:29
Sparks	I don't like the idea of being extremely strict on saying how they have to do it.	00:29
quaid	it "feels" restrictive to reusers?	00:30
Sparks	"You must say exactly this in the type font and size and..."	00:31
quaid	I'll note that if we are strict, it's a reason for not listing every single contributor to a doc - puts a big burden on remixers -- so then it makes more sense to credit "Fedora Docs" & "Fedora L10n"	00:31
Sparks	I'd rather just say, you have to attribute it to us and let them figure out what works best for them.	00:31
* quaid thinks about it and thinks his argument goes the other way too		00:31
rudi	Sparks -- CC doesn't allow you to be *that* strict	00:32
Sparks	rudi: So what would be the point of an attribution statement?	00:32
rudi	Like I said, to alert people about what their obligations actually are	00:33
rudi	Transparently	00:33
Sparks	So spell out what the license is telling them to do	00:34
rudi	Pretty much	00:34
Sparks	Okay, I'm good with that.	00:34
Sparks	Anyone else have an opinion?	00:34
rudi	There are only two specific extra burdens that the licence allows: Specify a specific name to credit, and specify that you must link back.	00:35
rudi	You'll notice that I suggest we invoke the second of those	00:35
quaid	ah, that avoids the long list of names?	00:35
rudi	No.	00:35
rudi	That's the first	00:35
rudi	Which we could also choose	00:36
quaid	oic, sorry, misparsed	00:36
Sparks	Okay	00:36
quaid	'specific name', gotcha	00:36
Sparks	So +1 for only linking back.	00:36
quaid	just for ye ole debil's advocate sake	00:36
quaid	why not specify "Fedora Docs Team" and "Fedora L10n Team"	00:37
rudi	Yeah; so instead of crediting the actual creators of the doc, we could specify that the re-user or remixer just credits "The Fedora Documentation Project"	00:37
quaid	and avoid tracking a list of names?	00:37
* ianweller has to eat, bbl		00:37
quaid	or "The Fedora Project"	00:37
rudi	indeed	00:37
jjmcd	That list of names is important to some	00:37
* Sparks likes "The Fedora Project"		00:37
Sparks	jjmcd: Yeah, which is found on the documents themselves... but that list can be pretty long.	00:38
rudi	jjmcd -- yes, which is why I shied away from suggesting that option	00:38
quaid	I don't think we should burden others with our long list of names, should we continue to choose to display it.	00:38
jjmcd	Yeah it can, so we really are just talking about what it says on some repuser's doc?	00:38
jjmcd	re-user grrrr	00:38
rudi	jjmcd -- yes	00:39
jjmcd	Ahh ... I like Fedora Project, but we get some good press for our docs, I wonder whether Fedora Docs Project doesn't leverage that	00:39
quaid	jjmcd: well, we ARE docs for the FP	00:39
rudi	jjmcd -- don't forget L10N	00:40
quaid	exactly	00:40
quaid	and Design	00:40
quaid	and the Publican team for the cool look	00:40
quaid	and etc.	00:40
quaid	One of the problems I have with all this self-branding (My Name, My SubProject's Name) is that it distracts and fractions from the greater;	00:40
quaid	even if one of my purposes in Fedora is to build my name	00:41
quaid	everyone else has to rely upon the RPM loginfo	00:41
Sparks	WE ARE FEDORA	00:41
quaid	no one gets to call their package	00:41
quaid	quaid-zikula-foo.rpm	00:41
Sparks	no?	00:41
quaid	how about this	00:41
Sparks	Is that against the package naming rules?	00:41
quaid	do rpm -qi $anypackage	00:42
quaid	do you see the packagers name in there?	00:42
* radsy wanders off... services guide has been sent to lists fo review..		00:42
quaid	why would Docs get to have a big splash with our name just because we get to control the printing press?	00:42
quaid	shouldn't we put every packager's name in there that contributed to a package that we document?	00:42
* quaid quotes his daughter's, "It's not Fu-yair!"		00:43
quaid	anyway, sorry, different debate	00:43
quaid	but not a problem we should push on reusers	00:43
quaid	so +1 to The Fedora Project from me	00:43
* quaid steps down carefully from his soap box		00:43
* Sparks calls for a vote		00:43
Sparks	Require the re-user to attribute to "The Fedora Project" and link back	00:44
Sparks	+1	00:44
rudi	+1	00:44
jjmcd	+1	00:44
danielsmw	+1	00:44
quaid	+1	00:44
Sparks	#agreed Require the re-user to attribute to "The Fedora Project" and link back	00:45
Sparks	Okay, anything else on the license?	00:45
Sparks	#topic Shared open-source style guide <--ke4qqq	00:46
rudi	Give me a few minutes and I'll have that revision in place; then, if we're happy with it, I'll run it past legal	00:46
Sparks	Okay... quaid and rudi will be helping ke4qqq with this.	00:46
Sparks	Anything else?	00:46
Sparks	rudi: Thanks	00:46
Sparks	#link https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-June/msg00163.html	00:46
* Sparks moves on		00:47
Sparks	#topic Outstanding BZ Tickets	00:47
Sparks	Okay, I know people were working their tickets since last Wednesday. Good job.	00:47
Sparks	I spent about a half hour "gardening" the tickets this afternoon.	00:48
Sparks	If you have tickets assigned to you please make sure you work these issues...	00:48
Sparks	especially if they are from a user.	00:48
Sparks	If the ticket takes a while to fix I'd like everyone to make note at least monthly to show you are still working the problem.	00:49
* Sparks notes some people got knocked off there.		00:50
Sparks	Does anyone have any questions about the BZ tickets	00:50
Sparks	?	00:50
quaid	anyone want mine?	00:51
Sparks	quaid: No, I think you need yours. I don't think you have enough to do.	00:51
quaid	good for ya!	00:51
Sparks	:)	00:51
Sparks	#topic Draft Documentation on the wiki	00:52
Sparks	#link	00:52
jjmcd	wheeeeee	00:52
Sparks	And jjmcd's back!	00:53
Sparks	jjmcd: You'll have to read the log to see what we assigned to you while you were out.	00:53
Sparks	Okay... Draft Documentation	00:53
jjmcd	did u get "504825, 228728 - should talk about tomorrow" before the netsplit?	00:53
Sparks	no	00:53
Sparks	after the meeting?	00:54
jjmcd	tomorrow's 11AM	00:54
Sparks	No, can we talk about them after tonight meeting?	00:54
Sparks	or do we need to talk about them now?	00:54
jjmcd	Well, one is probably a longer conversation, not sure I'm ready with all the questions, the other could drag on too	00:55
jjmcd	The second is are we going to ressurect the guide -- accessibility	00:56
Sparks	I thought 504825 would be fairly straight forward	00:56
jjmcd	and if so, in what form/format	00:56
jjmcd	Well, we never really did get to a complete answer	00:56
Sparks	jjmcd: What the heck... You are not authorized to access bug #228728.	00:57
buggbot	Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=228728 is not accessible.	00:57
* Sparks dislikes buggbot.		00:57
* ianweller is confused at 228728.		00:57
jjmcd	we said we would produce 3 formats, but we still never asked the question what does the rpm look like, how will it be presented installed, do we drop gnome or include kde, etc etc	00:57
jjmcd	let me see if i fat-fingered it	00:58
jjmcd	228729 sri	00:59
* Sparks is now curious what 228728 is.		00:59
Sparks	jjmcd: Dang... okay, I remember now	01:00
jjmcd	prolly some super secret rhel thingie	01:00
Sparks	prolly	01:00
Sparks	jjmcd: Okay, so you want to wait until tomorrow's meeting for this?	01:00
jjmcd	Yeah, I think it is a little related to the other, so lets talk about what shows on the iso, and ignore the docs.fp.o	01:01
jjmcd	which we have covered sort of	01:01
rudi	http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/license/ is updated	01:01
jjmcd	does it work in internet exploder?	01:01
jjmcd	I have no argument with that language	01:02
Sparks	Don't know... I don't have IE anywhere.	01:02
rudi	Probably not; but that's got nothing to do with the license	01:02
jjmcd	yeah, I know. Just pokin'	01:03
rudi	:)	01:03
Sparks	Okay	01:04
Sparks	Draft Documentation	01:04
Sparks	it's there...	01:04
Sparks	Please look at it every so often and see if you can help something along.	01:04
Sparks	#topic Guide needs?	01:05
Sparks	Does anyone need anything for their Guide?	01:05
Sparks	#topic New Guides	01:05
Sparks	Anyone have any new guide ideas?	01:05
jjmcd	yeah, but not until after F12	01:06
Sparks	jjmcd: What you got?	01:06
jjmcd	A guide to Fedora for radio amateurs	01:06
Sparks	jjmcd: Count me in	01:06
jjmcd	;-)	01:06
Sparks	Anyone else?	01:06
Sparks	#topic All other business	01:07
Sparks	Does anyone have anything else?	01:07
* Sparks notes stickster arriving right at the end of the meeting		01:07
jjmcd	well, these manager types	01:07
Sparks	ya.. tell me about it	01:08
jjmcd	you know how THEY are	01:08
Sparks	ANYONE? ANYTHING?	01:08
jjmcd	is there any useful docs for zikula?	01:08
Sparks	I don't know	01:08
jjmcd	Maybe I'll just rely on infra and not stress over it	01:09
Sparks	#action jjmcd to do recon on Zikula for useful docs	01:09
jjmcd	zikula.org has lots, but nothing useful	01:10
Sparks	Anything else?	01:10
Sparks	5	01:11
Sparks	4	01:11
Sparks	3	01:11
Sparks	2	01:11
Sparks	1	01:11
Sparks	Thanks everyone for coming!	01:11
Sparks	#endmeeting	01:11