From Fedora Project Wiki
| Sparks | #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| Sparks | #topic Roll Call | 00:01 |
| * Sparks | 00:01 | |
| * danielsmw is here. | 00:01 | |
| * itbegins is here | 00:01 | |
| jjmcd | hier ben ik | 00:01 |
| * ianweller | 00:01 | |
| * rudi is here | 00:01 | |
| ianweller | quaid: over here, not #fedora-meeting-1 ;) | 00:02 |
| quaid | heh, like I can tell the difference in irssi | 00:03 |
| * quaid is here, too | 00:03 | |
| itbegins | ping me if you need me for a topic I can help with (i.e. the CMS) | 00:03 |
| * ianweller assigns itbegins to something non-CMS related ;) | 00:04 | |
| Sparks | itbegins: Oh we'll be talking CMS tonight | 00:04 |
| itbegins | ianweller, I wouldn't do that if you want it to get done | 00:04 |
| ianweller | hehe | 00:04 |
| itbegins | Last week's work hours: 7.30-19.00, 7.30-18.30, 8.00-22.30, 8.00-22.30, 8.00-18.00 | 00:05 |
| itbegins | anyway, I'm polluting the meeting log... | 00:05 |
| quaid | what? you took the weekend OFF? | 00:06 |
| * quaid *cough* slacker *cough* ;-D | 00:06 | |
| Sparks | Okay, let's get started... | 00:06 |
| itbegins | quaid, no weekend working for the time being. I get that off to explore Manhattan | 00:06 |
| Sparks | #topic Last week's action items | 00:06 |
| Sparks | Sparks to follow up with Pascal Calarco from News to make sure we are including all packages necessary for Zikula for them. | 00:06 |
| Sparks | #action Sparks to follow up with Pascal Calarco from News to make sure we are including all packages necessary for Zikula for them. -- Second Alarm | 00:06 |
| Sparks | Yeah, I didn't get that done. | 00:07 |
| Sparks | Sparks to write rollout plan for license change... 2nd alarm | 00:07 |
| Sparks | done | 00:07 |
| Sparks | #link License_changeover_schedule | 00:07 |
| Sparks | We'll come back to this one a little later. | 00:07 |
| Sparks | rudi to help sparks on changing the fedora-brand in Publican for CC license | 00:07 |
| Sparks | #action rudi to help sparks on changing the fedora-brand in Publican for CC license -- Second Alarm | 00:08 |
| rudi | Well, I've got a sample in place here: | 00:08 |
| rudi | http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/license/ | 00:08 |
| Sparks | rudi: We'll come back to this one but I think you are on the right track. | 00:08 |
| Sparks | rudi: Cool. We'll hit that one in a few when we get to the license discussion. | 00:08 |
| rudi | Now including attribution information after discussions on the list yesterday | 00:08 |
| rudi | KK | 00:08 |
| Sparks | Sparks to package the three GPL editors for Zikula | 00:09 |
| Sparks | #action Sparks to package the three GPL editors for Zikula -- Second Alarm | 00:09 |
| Sparks | Stickster to blog to see if we can get some PHP/JS folks to help with out with some Zikula modules. | 00:09 |
| Sparks | stickster_afk isn't here but I think this was done. | 00:09 |
| danielsmw | It was; I saw it. | 00:09 |
| Sparks | Cool | 00:09 |
| Sparks | Sparks to put a note on the list about Shared Open-Source Style Guide | 00:09 |
| itbegins | I am sort of working on this as well | 00:09 |
| itbegins | from the Zikula community side | 00:10 |
| Sparks | itbegins: cool | 00:10 |
| itbegins | I've been contacted by stickster_afk, I just have to write an article on the Zikula site. Likelihood of serious replies is limited, but i'll give it a go | 00:10 |
| Sparks | Does anyone want to handle the Shared Open-Source Style Guide stuff? I just haven't had time to read up on it all and write about it. | 00:10 |
| Sparks | #action Sparks to put a note on the list about Shared Open-Source Style Guide | 00:11 |
| Sparks | Sparks to create BZ component Deployment Guide | 00:11 |
| Sparks | Yeah, I failed on this one too... | 00:12 |
| * rudi will take it but is time poor right now | 00:12 | |
| Sparks | rudi: The Open-Source guide? | 00:12 |
| Sparks | rudi: or the BZ component | 00:12 |
| rudi | Sparks -- the OS guide | 00:12 |
| Sparks | #action rudi to put a note on the list about Shared Open-Source Style Guide | 00:13 |
| Sparks | rudi: Thank you | 00:13 |
| Sparks | I'll get on the BZ component tonight. | 00:13 |
| Sparks | #action Sparks to create BZ component Deployment Guide --Second alarm | 00:13 |
| quaid | Sparks: I'd like to help move the shared style guide stuff along, yeah | 00:13 |
| Sparks | Excellent | 00:13 |
| Sparks | quaid: ke4qqq was going to work on it but he's gotten real busy lately for known reasons... | 00:14 |
| Sparks | and I think the more people that get on that project the better | 00:14 |
| quaid | yeah, coordinate on list, sounds fine | 00:14 |
| Sparks | cool | 00:14 |
| Sparks | Sparks to write up CVE checking/validation procedures in the wiki | 00:14 |
| Sparks | This is inprogress. | 00:15 |
| Sparks | #action Sparks to write up CVE checking/validation procedures in the wiki --second alarm | 00:15 |
| Sparks | Okay, that's all from last week. Anyone have any other "old business"? | 00:15 |
| Sparks | #topic Status on CMS (Zikula) <-- ke4qqq | 00:16 |
| Sparks | Well, ke4qqq isn't here with us tonight... | 00:16 |
| Sparks | but we had a meeting earlier today and got a few more items straight. | 00:16 |
| Sparks | J5 joined us today and will be working on some of the javascript problems we are having | 00:17 |
| Sparks | so hopefully all that will be squared away soon. | 00:17 |
| Sparks | I got volunteered to rebuild the Zikula instance on PT15 so that will either happen later tonight or tomorrow. | 00:18 |
| Sparks | Does anyone have anything questions or ideas? | 00:18 |
| itbegins | Sparks, do you know what to install etc? | 00:19 |
| Sparks | itbegins: I'll be installing all the packages we have in the repo. | 00:19 |
| itbegins | Sparks, ok, then run install.php | 00:19 |
| Sparks | Cool, thanks. | 00:19 |
| itbegins | Sparks, you'll need a database ready | 00:19 |
| Sparks | ya | 00:19 |
| itbegins | in fact, it would be best if you didn't install from scratch and just pointed the new files to the old DB | 00:20 |
| itbegins | due to the amount of setup work I did | 00:20 |
| Sparks | I could do that, too. | 00:20 |
| itbegins | though it can be replicated with a bit of work | 00:20 |
| Sparks | I don't plan on wipeing that out. | 00:20 |
| itbegins | if you want to do that, save /config/config.php from the old system | 00:20 |
| itbegins | I assume it will be puppetized anyway | 00:20 |
| Sparks | eventually, yes. | 00:20 |
| Sparks | This is a preparation to puppetizing everything. | 00:21 |
| itbegins | THere's also FASAuth (the FAS login module) and the theme | 00:21 |
| itbegins | I sent the source to ke4qqq previously | 00:21 |
| ricky | Is the FAS module in git somewhere or anything like that? | 00:21 |
| Sparks | I don't think those have been packaged. | 00:21 |
| Sparks | But we need to get those in the repo asap. | 00:21 |
| ricky | We can get it in the fedora-infrastructure git repo if you'd like | 00:21 |
| ricky | Ah, they'll be RPMs - that's fine too :-) | 00:21 |
| Sparks | ricky: Yeah, everything will be RPMed for ease of use | 00:22 |
| ricky | Cool, we like RPMs :-) | 00:22 |
| Sparks | Okay, anything else? | 00:23 |
| itbegins | That's it from my side | 00:24 |
| Sparks | #topic Status on CC license rollout.\ | 00:24 |
| Sparks | #link License_changeover_schedule | 00:24 |
| quaid | a short bit ago I updated one of the tasks as completed | 00:25 |
| Sparks | Okay, I created the above schedule. I'd appreciate feedback. | 00:25 |
| itbegins | If there are no objects I will head off, haven't eaten yet... | 00:25 |
| Sparks | rudi: Let's talk about your page you made. | 00:25 |
| * ianweller will work tomorrow on a draft announcement | 00:25 | |
| ianweller | #action ianweller to do something useful and write a draft announcement | 00:26 |
| ianweller | ;) | 00:26 |
| Sparks | ianweller: Thank you | 00:26 |
| Sparks | rudi: So do we need to have an attribute statement? | 00:26 |
| rudi | As I understand it, no we don't strictly need to. | 00:27 |
| Sparks | Do we want an attribute statement? | 00:27 |
| rudi | I'm in two minds about it. | 00:27 |
| quaid | #link http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/license/ | 00:28 |
| rudi | It increases transparency about how to re-use the material | 00:28 |
| rudi | But I can imagine that it would also discourage reuse | 00:29 |
| Sparks | I don't like the idea of being extremely strict on saying how they have to do it. | 00:29 |
| quaid | it "feels" restrictive to reusers? | 00:30 |
| Sparks | "You must say exactly this in the type font and size and..." | 00:31 |
| quaid | I'll note that if we are strict, it's a reason for not listing every single contributor to a doc - puts a big burden on remixers -- so then it makes more sense to credit "Fedora Docs" & "Fedora L10n" | 00:31 |
| Sparks | I'd rather just say, you have to attribute it to us and let them figure out what works best for them. | 00:31 |
| * quaid thinks about it and thinks his argument goes the other way too | 00:31 | |
| rudi | Sparks -- CC doesn't allow you to be *that* strict | 00:32 |
| Sparks | rudi: So what would be the point of an attribution statement? | 00:32 |
| rudi | Like I said, to alert people about what their obligations actually are | 00:33 |
| rudi | Transparently | 00:33 |
| Sparks | So spell out what the license is telling them to do | 00:34 |
| rudi | Pretty much | 00:34 |
| Sparks | Okay, I'm good with that. | 00:34 |
| Sparks | Anyone else have an opinion? | 00:34 |
| rudi | There are only two specific extra burdens that the licence allows: Specify a specific name to credit, and specify that you must link back. | 00:35 |
| rudi | You'll notice that I suggest we invoke the second of those | 00:35 |
| quaid | ah, that avoids the long list of names? | 00:35 |
| rudi | No. | 00:35 |
| rudi | That's the first | 00:35 |
| rudi | Which we could also choose | 00:36 |
| quaid | oic, sorry, misparsed | 00:36 |
| Sparks | Okay | 00:36 |
| quaid | 'specific name', gotcha | 00:36 |
| Sparks | So +1 for only linking back. | 00:36 |
| quaid | just for ye ole debil's advocate sake | 00:36 |
| quaid | why not specify "Fedora Docs Team" and "Fedora L10n Team" | 00:37 |
| rudi | Yeah; so instead of crediting the actual creators of the doc, we could specify that the re-user or remixer just credits "The Fedora Documentation Project" | 00:37 |
| quaid | and avoid tracking a list of names? | 00:37 |
| * ianweller has to eat, bbl | 00:37 | |
| quaid | or "The Fedora Project" | 00:37 |
| rudi | indeed | 00:37 |
| jjmcd | That list of names is important to some | 00:37 |
| * Sparks likes "The Fedora Project" | 00:37 | |
| Sparks | jjmcd: Yeah, which is found on the documents themselves... but that list can be pretty long. | 00:38 |
| rudi | jjmcd -- yes, which is why I shied away from suggesting that option | 00:38 |
| quaid | I don't think we should burden others with our long list of names, should we continue to choose to display it. | 00:38 |
| jjmcd | Yeah it can, so we really are just talking about what it says on some repuser's doc? | 00:38 |
| jjmcd | re-user grrrr | 00:38 |
| rudi | jjmcd -- yes | 00:39 |
| jjmcd | Ahh ... I like Fedora Project, but we get some good press for our docs, I wonder whether Fedora Docs Project doesn't leverage that | 00:39 |
| quaid | jjmcd: well, we ARE docs for the FP | 00:39 |
| rudi | jjmcd -- don't forget L10N | 00:40 |
| quaid | exactly | 00:40 |
| quaid | and Design | 00:40 |
| quaid | and the Publican team for the cool look | 00:40 |
| quaid | and etc. | 00:40 |
| quaid | One of the problems I have with all this self-branding (My Name, My SubProject's Name) is that it distracts and fractions from the greater; | 00:40 |
| quaid | even if one of my purposes in Fedora is to build my name | 00:41 |
| quaid | everyone else has to rely upon the RPM loginfo | 00:41 |
| Sparks | WE ARE FEDORA | 00:41 |
| quaid | no one gets to call their package | 00:41 |
| quaid | quaid-zikula-foo.rpm | 00:41 |
| Sparks | no? | 00:41 |
| quaid | how about this | 00:41 |
| Sparks | Is that against the package naming rules? | 00:41 |
| quaid | do rpm -qi $anypackage | 00:42 |
| quaid | do you see the packagers name in there? | 00:42 |
| * radsy wanders off... services guide has been sent to lists fo review.. | 00:42 | |
| quaid | why would Docs get to have a big splash with our name just because we get to control the printing press? | 00:42 |
| quaid | shouldn't we put every packager's name in there that contributed to a package that we document? | 00:42 |
| * quaid quotes his daughter's, "It's not Fu-yair!" | 00:43 | |
| quaid | anyway, sorry, different debate | 00:43 |
| quaid | but not a problem we should push on reusers | 00:43 |
| quaid | so +1 to The Fedora Project from me | 00:43 |
| * quaid steps down carefully from his soap box | 00:43 | |
| * Sparks calls for a vote | 00:43 | |
| Sparks | Require the re-user to attribute to "The Fedora Project" and link back | 00:44 |
| Sparks | +1 | 00:44 |
| rudi | +1 | 00:44 |
| jjmcd | +1 | 00:44 |
| danielsmw | +1 | 00:44 |
| quaid | +1 | 00:44 |
| Sparks | #agreed Require the re-user to attribute to "The Fedora Project" and link back | 00:45 |
| Sparks | Okay, anything else on the license? | 00:45 |
| Sparks | #topic Shared open-source style guide <--ke4qqq | 00:46 |
| rudi | Give me a few minutes and I'll have that revision in place; then, if we're happy with it, I'll run it past legal | 00:46 |
| Sparks | Okay... quaid and rudi will be helping ke4qqq with this. | 00:46 |
| Sparks | Anything else? | 00:46 |
| Sparks | rudi: Thanks | 00:46 |
| Sparks | #link https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-June/msg00163.html | 00:46 |
| * Sparks moves on | 00:47 | |
| Sparks | #topic Outstanding BZ Tickets | 00:47 |
| Sparks | Okay, I know people were working their tickets since last Wednesday. Good job. | 00:47 |
| Sparks | I spent about a half hour "gardening" the tickets this afternoon. | 00:48 |
| Sparks | If you have tickets assigned to you please make sure you work these issues... | 00:48 |
| Sparks | especially if they are from a user. | 00:48 |
| Sparks | If the ticket takes a while to fix I'd like everyone to make note at least monthly to show you are still working the problem. | 00:49 |
| * Sparks notes some people got knocked off there. | 00:50 | |
| Sparks | Does anyone have any questions about the BZ tickets | 00:50 |
| Sparks | ? | 00:50 |
| quaid | anyone want mine? | 00:51 |
| Sparks | quaid: No, I think you need yours. I don't think you have enough to do. | 00:51 |
| quaid | good for ya! | 00:51 |
| Sparks | :) | 00:51 |
| Sparks | #topic Draft Documentation on the wiki | 00:52 |
| Sparks | #link | 00:52 |
| jjmcd | wheeeeee | 00:52 |
| Sparks | And jjmcd's back! | 00:53 |
| Sparks | jjmcd: You'll have to read the log to see what we assigned to you while you were out. | 00:53 |
| Sparks | Okay... Draft Documentation | 00:53 |
| jjmcd | did u get "504825, 228728 - should talk about tomorrow" before the netsplit? | 00:53 |
| Sparks | no | 00:53 |
| Sparks | after the meeting? | 00:54 |
| jjmcd | tomorrow's 11AM | 00:54 |
| Sparks | No, can we talk about them after tonight meeting? | 00:54 |
| Sparks | or do we need to talk about them now? | 00:54 |
| jjmcd | Well, one is probably a longer conversation, not sure I'm ready with all the questions, the other could drag on too | 00:55 |
| jjmcd | The second is are we going to ressurect the guide -- accessibility | 00:56 |
| Sparks | I thought 504825 would be fairly straight forward | 00:56 |
| jjmcd | and if so, in what form/format | 00:56 |
| jjmcd | Well, we never really did get to a complete answer | 00:56 |
| Sparks | jjmcd: What the heck... You are not authorized to access bug #228728. | 00:57 |
| buggbot | Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=228728 is not accessible. | 00:57 |
| * Sparks dislikes buggbot. | 00:57 | |
| * ianweller is confused at 228728. | 00:57 | |
| jjmcd | we said we would produce 3 formats, but we still never asked the question what does the rpm look like, how will it be presented installed, do we drop gnome or include kde, etc etc | 00:57 |
| jjmcd | let me see if i fat-fingered it | 00:58 |
| jjmcd | 228729 sri | 00:59 |
| * Sparks is now curious what 228728 is. | 00:59 | |
| Sparks | jjmcd: Dang... okay, I remember now | 01:00 |
| jjmcd | prolly some super secret rhel thingie | 01:00 |
| Sparks | prolly | 01:00 |
| Sparks | jjmcd: Okay, so you want to wait until tomorrow's meeting for this? | 01:00 |
| jjmcd | Yeah, I think it is a little related to the other, so lets talk about what shows on the iso, and ignore the docs.fp.o | 01:01 |
| jjmcd | which we have covered sort of | 01:01 |
| rudi | http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/license/ is updated | 01:01 |
| jjmcd | does it work in internet exploder? | 01:01 |
| jjmcd | I have no argument with that language | 01:02 |
| Sparks | Don't know... I don't have IE anywhere. | 01:02 |
| rudi | Probably not; but that's got nothing to do with the license | 01:02 |
| jjmcd | yeah, I know. Just pokin' | 01:03 |
| rudi | :) | 01:03 |
| Sparks | Okay | 01:04 |
| Sparks | Draft Documentation | 01:04 |
| Sparks | it's there... | 01:04 |
| Sparks | Please look at it every so often and see if you can help something along. | 01:04 |
| Sparks | #topic Guide needs? | 01:05 |
| Sparks | Does anyone need anything for their Guide? | 01:05 |
| Sparks | #topic New Guides | 01:05 |
| Sparks | Anyone have any new guide ideas? | 01:05 |
| jjmcd | yeah, but not until after F12 | 01:06 |
| Sparks | jjmcd: What you got? | 01:06 |
| jjmcd | A guide to Fedora for radio amateurs | 01:06 |
| Sparks | jjmcd: Count me in | 01:06 |
| jjmcd | ;-) | 01:06 |
| Sparks | Anyone else? | 01:06 |
| Sparks | #topic All other business | 01:07 |
| Sparks | Does anyone have anything else? | 01:07 |
| * Sparks notes stickster arriving right at the end of the meeting | 01:07 | |
| jjmcd | well, these manager types | 01:07 |
| Sparks | ya.. tell me about it | 01:08 |
| jjmcd | you know how THEY are | 01:08 |
| Sparks | ANYONE? ANYTHING? | 01:08 |
| jjmcd | is there any useful docs for zikula? | 01:08 |
| Sparks | I don't know | 01:08 |
| jjmcd | Maybe I'll just rely on infra and not stress over it | 01:09 |
| Sparks | #action jjmcd to do recon on Zikula for useful docs | 01:09 |
| jjmcd | zikula.org has lots, but nothing useful | 01:10 |
| Sparks | Anything else? | 01:10 |
| Sparks | 5 | 01:11 |
| Sparks | 4 | 01:11 |
| Sparks | 3 | 01:11 |
| Sparks | 2 | 01:11 |
| Sparks | 1 | 01:11 |
| Sparks | Thanks everyone for coming! | 01:11 |
| Sparks | #endmeeting | 01:11 |